How to get a job as a python (or any other language) developer

Oberrheiner

Pelican
tylerdurden1993 said:
Then they gave me a brain teaser question, like something you'd expect on an IQ test.

Yup, those are back in trend (and just as dumb as always).

Let's be honest, most developer jobs are not that interesting, selecting for high-IQ employees will just increase the company's turnover.
 
tylerdurden1993 said:
Just thought i'd let you guys know I've got a job as a python developer. To start with I just basically followed the OP's advice so here in the UK his advice is still good almost 6 years later. I start on Monday.

Overall it took me 12 months from starting to getting a job. However for 8 of them months I had another job and was only putting in around an hour a day on it. After it finished I upped it to 3-4 hours a day. I think if you started out at 3-4 hours a day with your main professional aim of getting a job in the industry you could do it in a lot shorter time.

I had two more job interviews. I actually got both of them but one offered me a job the next day and one took 3 weeks so by the time the second company had offered me the job I'd already accepted the other one and got a place to stay sorted etc.

The interview that I got the job went like this, first part of the interview was asking me why I got into software etc., what i'd been doing, how i'd learnt it. They then said they had a developer check my github page out and said it was good enough so i wouldn't be asked any technical questions. Then they gave me a brain teaser question, like something you'd expect on an IQ test. After i'd solved it they were asking me to look at properties in the area, when could I start etc. They then offered me the job the next day.

The second interview went as followed the first half of the interview was general interview questions (I won't bore you with the details). The second half was a practical challenge basically using the datetime module in python. I could only use the official docs to help me solve it no stackoverflow etc. After some hints I eventfully managed to solve 2/4 of the challenges however I wasted alot of the time at the start just reading the docs with no clue of how to do it. As id never really used it before

If anyone's got any questions mention them here or PM me.

Nice one buddy, I have some questions for you if don't mind (can't PM for some reason)

I'm also in the UK, and just started learning python last week as I'm hating my current job. Looking to do as many hours a day as I can now, and then quit this job to concentrate on it fully

Did you also end up learning a good amount of JavaScript before getting the job offers?

What is your salary like for your first job, and did you have to move to London? The majority of the jobs that I saw are based there.

Did you use recruitment sites such as Reed or Indeed, or did you go about contacting the actual companies direct?

What was the most useful resource for you when learning to code? I've started out with Colt Steele's Python Bootcamp on Udemy and it seems good so far

Thanks for any answers :)
 

tylerdurden1993

Woodpecker
DigitalAnimal said:
Nice one buddy, I have some questions for you if don't mind (can't PM for some reason)

I'm also in the UK, and just started learning python last week as I'm hating my current job. Looking to do as many hours a day as I can now, and then quit this job to concentrate on it fully

Did you also end up learning a good amount of JavaScript before getting the job offers?

What is your salary like for your first job, and did you have to move to London? The majority of the jobs that I saw are based there.

Did you use recruitment sites such as Reed or Indeed, or did you go about contacting the actual companies direct?

What was the most useful resource for you when learning to code? I've started out with Colt Steele's Python Bootcamp on Udemy and it seems good so far

Thanks for any answers :)

I learnt a bit of Javascript but I don't think it was vital to me getting the job. I mainly learnt how to do stuff with the DOM, how to add event listeners, just basic stuff really. However for my current job I'm going to have to learn it in alot more detail as the software I'm working on uses it quite alot.

Saying that if you choose to continue to learn Python just commit to learning it don't try and learn Javascript as well. So learn the basics and once you feel comfortable with that start doing some projects, once you have some projects on your github then if you want to, start learning Javascript.

Saying that from research on youtube the fastest way to get a job is to learn HTML, CSS, Javascript and one Javascript Framework i.e. React

I didn't move to London I live in a small town. It is near to London though. But you don't have to move to London. My salary is in the mid 20's a year before tax.

I actually got my job through an advert through indeed. However I would also try to contact companies direct, network etc. But when you're ready to look for a job make sure you get a good cover letter and CV and also search for jobs via indeed etc.

I used the resources the OP suggested as they were free. Then I used some udemy courses. The udemy courses I used were related to Django though.

I'd suggest doing some free resources plus your course on udemy before you decide to purchase more stuff. Also if you can, try and keep a job so at least you have money coming in etc.

This youtube channel is good for wannabe developers who are looking to learn and get jobs.

 

dasher

Woodpecker
tylerdurden1993 said:
The interview that I got the job went like this, first part of the interview was asking me why I got into software etc., what i'd been doing, how i'd learnt it. They then said they had a developer check my github page out and said it was good enough so i wouldn't be asked any technical questions. Then they gave me a brain teaser question, like something you'd expect on an IQ test. After i'd solved it they were asking me to look at properties in the area, when could I start etc. They then offered me the job the next day.

What kind of things did you have on your github?
 
tylerdurden1993 said:
Saying that if you choose to continue to learn Python just commit to learning it don't try and learn Javascript as well. So learn the basics and once you feel comfortable with that start doing some projects, once you have some projects on your github then if you want to, start learning Javascript.

Saying that from research on youtube the fastest way to get a job is to learn HTML, CSS, Javascript and one Javascript Framework i.e. React

Good points here although it may seem contradictory.

In today's web dev world you will not go anywhere not knowing JS. That said, having much more specific experience in 1 language puts you ahead of the competition for jobs requiring that 1 language.

Figure out the jobs you want and the tech stack. Don't learn JS and then apply for ML jobs using Python.
 

tylerdurden1993

Woodpecker
dasher said:
What kind of things did you have on your github?

Most of my projects on there were using Django. I have a couple of website clone projects. A couple of blogs and a personal portfolio site.

I've got two projects hosted on the internet one of them is a clone website that I put on pythonanywhere.com (you can host one project on there for free).

The other one is my personal portfolio site that's hosted on a VPS using Digital Ocean. I include the URL on my CV and cover letter. This contains a description of projects I've been working on and a blog site where I post what I've been learning.

My other project is a blackjack game that you play in the command line.

Apart from a github I would also have a personal portfolio website which has all your projects on it that you've completed with an explanation of the project, how you did it etc. I would then host it on the internet. This is useful for adding on a CV/cover letter when you apply for jobs as when you first apply non-programmers will be reading your application at first.
 

Player_1337

Pelican
Gold Member
Most programming/engineering 'interviews' are a pretentious farce, and won't accurately gauge what you'd bring to the table in a conventional scenario. It's more like taking an awkward, standardized test than anything else (I've documented the common methods on the first page of this thead). Some will even hit you with pedantic concepts (in the realm of algorithms and data structures) that are almost entirely inapplicable when solving real world problems.

Before wasting your time with laborious on-site interviews-- make sure to screen for the exact skills and expectations the particular company is aiming for from the onset (otherwise you'll get buried when faced with some obtuse problem they want you to solve). It all depends on if the employer are willing to on-board someone with common-sense, who can pick up on new technologies and languages quickly- or if they need a specialized code monkey right out of the gate.

The common, shitty interview procedures are likely a result of the explosive growth of computer science students and mediocre brogrammers in the last decade. While technical/programming roles are plentiful at a myrid of companies, many of the top-tier players in the industry can afford to be as selective as they want.

Feel free to PM me if you're just starting to interview for tech roles and have any questions.
 

Jetset

Ostrich
loremipsum said:
If programming fucks up your social skills you are a pussy who had no social skills at the first place. Any man who has studied game isn't gonna suddenly lose his social skills.
However like Godzilla said, warm up is most likely necessary if you plan going on a date, but that isn't programming inclusive. You wouldn't go on a date straight after doing hours of anything problem solving related anyway.

I think a major point for anyone looking into this is the following:

- If you have no social skills, you will probably be coding forever. Unfortunately, so far, it's an up-or-out industry to some extent. The number of 55-year-old guys who are kept around because they know some valuable legacy shit inside and out is dwarfed by the number of 55-year-old guys who "used to program" because they didn't keep up with anything marketable, and then they just aged out of the industry entirely.

- If you have social skills to go with clear technical thinking, you will be an indispensable interface between your corner of any organization and the rest of the organization as well as outside teams. You'll be the person non-technical people want to work with to get their needs across to technical people, and on track to be a decision-maker and lead. You can largely get a job anywhere, pick what you want to do, and become part of the culture wherever you go.

You want to be in that latter group. Programming does not require people skills, but being a useful programmer in a business environment does, and that's where the biggest shortage is.
 
All I think that needs to be said about programming is in these links:

https://mavericktraveler.com/silicon-valley/
https://mavericktraveler.com/6-reasons-why-young-men-should-not-become-programmers/
https://mavericktraveler.com/why-i-left-my-programming-career-and-havent-looked-back/

Those are my reasons that I never intend to become a programmer. If i really had to do programming I would become a web developer and offer and charge my services to private clients while living abroad and geo-arbitraging my income with western money in a non-western country.

Basically this:

https://www.brettdev.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoZ_b54lGfI
 

Valentine

Kingfisher
Gold Member
KnjazMihailo said:
All I think that needs to be said about programming is in these links:

https://mavericktraveler.com/silicon-valley/
https://mavericktraveler.com/6-reasons-why-young-men-should-not-become-programmers/
https://mavericktraveler.com/why-i-left-my-programming-career-and-havent-looked-back/

Those are my reasons that I never intend to become a programmer. If i really had to do programming I would become a web developer and offer and charge my services to private clients while living abroad and geo-arbitraging my income with western money in a non-western country.

Basically this:

https://www.brettdev.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoZ_b54lGfI

The problem is most of his criticisms apply to every job, the only exception is marketing. Whilst I don't disagree with marketing being of supreme importance (though I may be biased because it was my only focus for years) he completely ignores how powerful programming is combined with marketing. It's not an either-or situation.

I've become very tech-oriented the past few years and because of my marketing background I can see many opportunities for products, but I was never able to execute on them because I lacked programming skills. I've hired programmers to get apps developed but they take ages to develop, it's expensive and without programming skills you can't tell if it's shitcode or not. You need the skills yourself or be lucky enough to land a dedicated technical co-founder in order to prototype rapidly and test the market viability of your ideas.

He also makes entrepreneurship sound way easier than it actually is - it's years of trying and failing throwing stuff at the wall to see what works. Even when you find something that works, your business model might be unsuited for the long-term or for scaling. I see he recommends affiliate marketing and dropshipping, both product types mean you give up control and it's all too common changes happen on the product creator side which end your business.

So take his advice with a pinch of salt and if you are entrepreneurship-inclined then I advise you to think deeply on the type of business you want to create. For me it became obvious that I'm strongly inclined towards software so gaining those skills just made sense, but if you haven't tried out a number of different business models then maybe you would benefit from testing other methods first. But still, don't be put off from combining the two skills by his posts as he's not making a fair comparison.
 
Valentine said:
KnjazMihailo said:
All I think that needs to be said about programming is in these links:

https://mavericktraveler.com/silicon-valley/
https://mavericktraveler.com/6-reasons-why-young-men-should-not-become-programmers/
https://mavericktraveler.com/why-i-left-my-programming-career-and-havent-looked-back/

Those are my reasons that I never intend to become a programmer. If i really had to do programming I would become a web developer and offer and charge my services to private clients while living abroad and geo-arbitraging my income with western money in a non-western country.

Basically this:

https://www.brettdev.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoZ_b54lGfI

The problem is most of his criticisms apply to every job, the only exception is marketing. Whilst I don't disagree with marketing being of supreme importance (though I may be biased because it was my only focus for years) he completely ignores how powerful programming is combined with marketing. It's not an either-or situation.

I've become very tech-oriented the past few years and because of my marketing background I can see many opportunities for products, but I was never able to execute on them because I lacked programming skills. I've hired programmers to get apps developed but they take ages to develop, it's expensive and without programming skills you can't tell if it's shitcode or not. You need the skills yourself or be lucky enough to land a dedicated technical co-founder in order to prototype rapidly and test the market viability of your ideas.

He also makes entrepreneurship sound way easier than it actually is - it's years of trying and failing throwing stuff at the wall to see what works. Even when you find something that works, your business model might be unsuited for the long-term or for scaling. I see he recommends affiliate marketing and dropshipping, both product types mean you give up control and it's all too common changes happen on the product creator side which end your business.

So take his advice with a pinch of salt and if you are entrepreneurship-inclined then I advise you to think deeply on the type of business you want to create. For me it became obvious that I'm strongly inclined towards software so gaining those skills just made sense, but if you haven't tried out a number of different business models then maybe you would benefit from testing other methods first. But still, don't be put off from combining the two skills by his posts as he's not making a fair comparison.

Sure., there's some merit to your opinion. I still find his criticism reliable since he writes from his personal experience as a programmer.

Not to mention that you didn't even take a look at the 2nd guy who works as a Web Developer, anyway.

Frankly, I'm absolutely more inclined towards entrepreneurship and affiliate marketing.

I just think that these are all worthwhile perspectives to consider before permanently committing oneself to programming. I know i definitely won't commit myself to any form of programming or coding.
 
KnjazMihailo said:
All I think that needs to be said about programming is in these links:

https://mavericktraveler.com/silicon-valley/
https://mavericktraveler.com/6-reasons-why-young-men-should-not-become-programmers/
https://mavericktraveler.com/why-i-left-my-programming-career-and-havent-looked-back/

Those are my reasons that I never intend to become a programmer. If i really had to do programming I would become a web developer and offer and charge my services to private clients while living abroad and geo-arbitraging my income with western money in a non-western country.

Basically this:

https://www.brettdev.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoZ_b54lGfI

Yeah ok LOL. You are listening to one guy who hated his time in the Valley but made more than enough cash to then go digital nomad.

Newsflash, Maverick has shit to sell you.

Brettdev? Wordpress? Even more LOLZ. Good luck competing with Indians on the online job sites for $5/hour.

Here's more news for you. Setting up wordpress blogs isn't web dev.
 
croquet said:
KnjazMihailo said:
All I think that needs to be said about programming is in these links:

https://mavericktraveler.com/silicon-valley/
https://mavericktraveler.com/6-reasons-why-young-men-should-not-become-programmers/
https://mavericktraveler.com/why-i-left-my-programming-career-and-havent-looked-back/

Those are my reasons that I never intend to become a programmer. If i really had to do programming I would become a web developer and offer and charge my services to private clients while living abroad and geo-arbitraging my income with western money in a non-western country.

Basically this:

https://www.brettdev.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoZ_b54lGfI

Yeah ok LOL. You are listening to one guy who hated his time in the Valley but made more than enough cash to then go digital nomad.

Newsflash, Maverick has shit to sell you.

Brettdev? Wordpress? Even more LOLZ. Good luck competing with Indians on the online job sites for $5/hour.

Here's more news for you. Setting up wordpress blogs isn't web dev.

Honestly who doesn't have something to sell you in this world?

Good for him. The whole point is that programming can pay decent although not when you're competing with millions of Indians and other cheap laborers, but its mind numbing and monotonous work. Some people are cut out for it. Others are. I know i'm not.

Setting up WordPress blogs may not be web dev (It still is, as having a WordPress blog requires paying for WEBHOSTING), but it still earns good money since there's high demand for it. I know this as I am a client that wants and needs a WordPress blog setup for me. I am paying Irenicus to develop a landing page for a website for me. He can prove this for me since you're talking to me like i know nothing.

So cool bro. I literally said I'm not even going to work as a programmer. The LOLZ are on you.

You're literally not even worth taking seriously. Honestly, upon commenting in this thread I've stated these two guys who've made content and actually have worked in any form as programmers. Also I've stated I'm a client of Irenicus who's doing website design layout programming for me. In a different thread i've even mentioned that my Dad is a control systems engineer who's job involves programming.

Why should I even take your comment seriously at all?

You've literally done nothing but spout a bunch of cocky trash talk with absolutely no proof, logic, explanations or reasons of any kind at all. The onus is on you to prove why your comment is worth more than a piece of shit.

I have better things to do than deal with proud fools like you.

:mad::mad::mad:
 
KnjazMihailo said:
Honestly who doesn't have something to sell you in this world?

Good for him. The whole point is that programming can pay decent although not when you're competing with millions of Indians and other cheap laborers, but its mind numbing and monotonous work. Some people are cut out for it. Others are. I know i'm not.

Coding might be mind numbing but it certainly isn't monotonous. The Indians quoting $5/hour are because they are shit. Good devs, Indians or otherwise get paid multiples of that, think >$50/hour.

You are not cut out for it, ok so why are you on this thread?


Setting up WordPress blogs may not be web dev (It still is, as having a WordPress blog requires paying for WEBHOSTING), but it still earns good money since there's high demand for it. I know this as I am a client that wants and needs a WordPress blog setup for me. I am paying Irenicus to develop a landing page for a website for me. He can prove this for me since you're talking to me like i know nothing.

Web dev does not equal web hosting. If you had the IQ capacity to google you would have found out web hosting is shit simple. You just need to buy a domain and hosting and point your domain to your hosting. Enjoy making your $50 per client.

You indeed do know nothing. That you are absolutely right about.


So cool bro. I literally said I'm not even going to work as a programmer. The LOLZ are on you.

Again, why are you in this thread? Insecure ego?

You're literally not even worth taking seriously. Honestly, upon commenting in this thread I've stated these two guys who've made content and actually have worked in any form as programmers. Also I've stated I'm a client of Irenicus who's doing website design layout programming for me. In a different thread i've even mentioned that my Dad is a control systems engineer who's job involves programming.

Oooohhh your dad! Maybe he should teach you some skills instead of you paying someone to do something a 15 year old using Wix.com could do. No disrespect to Irenicus for the page design.

Why should I even take your comment seriously at all?

You've literally done nothing but spout a bunch of cocky trash talk with absolutely no proof, logic, explanations or reasons of any kind at all. The onus is on you to prove why your comment is worth more than a piece of shit.

I have better things to do than deal with proud fools like you.

So why did you respond to me? Got your panties in a bunch?

:mad::mad::mad:

I've bold highlighted all the parts that are you melting down. With my responses in italics and underlined, just in case you need to pay someone to read it to you.

Do you need some quiet time and warm milk now?
 
croquet said:
KnjazMihailo said:
Honestly who doesn't have something to sell you in this world?

Good for him. The whole point is that programming can pay decent although not when you're competing with millions of Indians and other cheap laborers, but its mind numbing and monotonous work. Some people are cut out for it. Others are. I know i'm not.

Coding might be mind numbing but it certainly isn't monotonous. The Indians quoting $5/hour are because they are shit. Good devs, Indians or otherwise get paid multiples of that, think >$50/hour.

You are not cut out for it, ok so why are you on this thread?


Setting up WordPress blogs may not be web dev (It still is, as having a WordPress blog requires paying for WEBHOSTING), but it still earns good money since there's high demand for it. I know this as I am a client that wants and needs a WordPress blog setup for me. I am paying Irenicus to develop a landing page for a website for me. He can prove this for me since you're talking to me like i know nothing.

Web dev does not equal web hosting. If you had the IQ capacity to google you would have found out web hosting is shit simple. You just need to buy a domain and hosting and point your domain to your hosting. Enjoy making your $50 per client.

You indeed do know nothing. That you are absolutely right about.


So cool bro. I literally said I'm not even going to work as a programmer. The LOLZ are on you.

Again, why are you in this thread? Insecure ego?

You're literally not even worth taking seriously. Honestly, upon commenting in this thread I've stated these two guys who've made content and actually have worked in any form as programmers. Also I've stated I'm a client of Irenicus who's doing website design layout programming for me. In a different thread i've even mentioned that my Dad is a control systems engineer who's job involves programming.

Oooohhh your dad! Maybe he should teach you some skills instead of you paying someone to do something a 15 year old using Wix.com could do. No disrespect to Irenicus for the page design.

Why should I even take your comment seriously at all?

You've literally done nothing but spout a bunch of cocky trash talk with absolutely no proof, logic, explanations or reasons of any kind at all. The onus is on you to prove why your comment is worth more than a piece of shit.

I have better things to do than deal with proud fools like you.

So why did you respond to me? Got your panties in a bunch?

:mad::mad::mad:

I've bold highlighted all the parts that are you melting down. With my responses in italics and underlined, just in case you need to pay someone to read it to you.

Do you need some quiet time and warm milk now?

I've done my best to make the most useful contributions I possibly could to this thread given what I know and my experiences. Some time ago in my life, i was seriously becoming a programmer.

What have you done? Talk a bunch of hot shit.

Again, you haven't proven why you're even worth taking seriously at all.
 
KnjazMihailo said:
I've done my best to make the most useful contributions I possibly could to this thread given what I know and my experiences. Some time ago in my life, i was seriously becoming a programmer.

What have you done? Talk a bunch of hot shit.

Again, you haven't proven why you're even worth taking seriously at all.

Put simply, your contributions have been shit. Read the thread title again.

How has anything you have wrote on this thread helps someone to become a software dev? It hasn't.

You have never been a dev, nor took steps towards it. Did you really think you sharing a worthless opinion would get you mass respect?
 
croquet said:
KnjazMihailo said:
I've done my best to make the most useful contributions I possibly could to this thread given what I know and my experiences. Some time ago in my life, i was seriously becoming a programmer.

What have you done? Talk a bunch of hot shit.

Again, you haven't proven why you're even worth taking seriously at all.

Put simply, your contributions have been shit. Read the thread title again.

How has anything you have wrote on this thread helps someone to become a software dev? It hasn't.

You have never been a dev, nor took steps towards it. Did you really think you sharing a worthless opinion would get you mass respect?

You're still trying to impose your frame on me by spewing random shit without even explaining why you're worth taking seriously and why anything you've said is worth taking seriously.

Pathetic.
 
KnjazMihailo said:
You're still trying to impose your frame on me by spewing random shit without even explaining why you're worth taking seriously and why anything you've said is worth taking seriously.

Pathetic.

Impose my frame? LOLZ. You're not gaming a girl here kid. If you love Roosh and "game" so much I suggest you buy a pair of kneepads.

Apparently you can't/don't read either. Or just in denial of your ass raping.

I have to prove my worth? You are completely insecure and you continue to prove my point exactly by continuing to respond to me.

Pathetic does describe you. That much you are right on.
 
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