How to get a job as a python (or any other language) developer

beta_plus

Pelican
the 5 (maybe 7) classes that you need

This is from a thread I started 7 years ago.

Urban Nerd:
The cool thing about computer science is that you don't need to take ALL of the required courses to be employable. I was an Applied Math major but always was aiming at CS-related work. I learned awhile back that you didn't need the WHOLE CS curriculum just the following courses:

Object-Oriented Programming I & II (either in Java or C++, depending on school).
Data Structures & Algorithms
Operating Systems
Database Systems
Computer Networks

Other "nice to have courses" would be Organization of Programming Languages and Software Engineering.

You can pretty much qualify for most software engineering jobs with the above courses because it gives you the foundation to LEARN NEW TECHNOLOGY...which is the key to the whole software engineering industry. Those 6, 7 or 8 CS courses can be easily taken within an Applied Math, Physics, or Finance curriculum. Don't worry about the math because you only need up to Calculus II for most CS courses.

Partly thanks to this advice, at the beginning of this year I got a 40+% raise and in the last 2 weeks was switched from contracting to full time hire.

I would argue that if you can only learn one of the 5 to 7 listed above, learn object oriented programming.

While python is not the main language I use at work (though I do use it), this advice applies to it and many other languages and IT jobs.
 
I'm wondering if there were any updates on coding bootcamps.

Did anyone enroll in one recently or take one before other than FullThrottle?

It seems most of them want you to be committed to it full-time, as in classes from mornings to late afternoons (even their online classes). I guess they expect their students to not have a job. As far as I can tell, most do not offer 'after work' classes. I know it takes a lot of time and dedication to learn how to code, but that's not really realistic for most. Any other options?
 

Hermetic Seal

Pelican
Orthodox
Gold Member
I work in software development for a big company. The whole reason I'm here is for the money. I learned programming a few years ago because I had no idea what I should be doing for work, and going to a three-month bootcamp was affordable and looked like a good way to increase my earnings. (The bootcamp closed about a year after I went there, so I got in at a good time.)

I did well there and got my job a few months after finishing the bootcamp. The first year or two I felt constantly challenged and growing as a developer but the years that have passed since then have been a dull blur. I am probably the least-capable and least technologically intelligent person on the team. I never learned hardly any computer science concepts, but don't ever use them anyway, so what I learned in code school has been pretty sufficient.

My intrinsic skillset as a human is extremely strong in reading/writing comprehension, analyzing ideas and concepts, and designing/crafting/building things, like writing a book, writing a song, or that sort of thing. I studied English in college because I enjoyed reading, writing, and was excellent at writing high-quality essays and reports, which seemed to come as naturally to me as breathing. I basically taught myself to fluency in Japanese in college. When I was a kid, I loved toys like Lego that allowed me to build and create.

However, I am poor at mathematics and spatial reasoning. This makes the mathematical side of programming, like animation and custom UI, incredibly difficult for me, yet I rarely even seem to be presented with this kind of work. I recently started doing some woodworking for fun with my dad, and I experience a similar mental lock-up when trying to figure out the measurement-based aspects of woodworking, although my weakness here may be based more on inexperience than anything else. I also don't really enjoy problem solving and mostly either get mad or find it tedious in the context of programming.

At work, I basically set my own hours, goof off for at least half of the day, and get paid triple what I ever made before this job, and everyone seems to think I'm doing just great. There is rarely enough work for the team, but management doesn't seem to notice or care. My team works on an app that looks nice but is redundant and pretty unnecessary, yet everyone seems enamored with it and there's no sign it's going to get canceled or whatever.

I recently got a massive raise for absolutely no reason. I have never worked a moment of overtime since I've been here. Basically, I get paid a mountain of money for doing very easy work, and it's incredibly unsatisfying. I would love to be doing something else other than programming since I find it boring, tedious, and unfulfilling, but I can't think of any other job I could get that would pay anywhere near what I make here. This whole situation makes me feel a constant sort of low-level contempt for my company because I feel like it's incredibly inefficient and makes dumb decisions, yet they're incredibly profitable so nobody seems to care. Further, in the time I've been here various sociological factors we frequently discuss here have caused me to hold a lot of technology we use (mobile devices, social media) in utter contempt.

Bottom line is that I don't really like being a programmer but don't see any way out of this toward something more rewarding. It seems like the savvy thing to do is keep quiet and milk the system for as long as I can.
 

fiasco360

Kingfisher
Orthodox
HermeticAlly said:
I work in software development for a big company. The whole reason I'm here is for the money. I learned programming a few years ago because I had no idea what I should be doing for work, and going to a three-month bootcamp was affordable and looked like a good way to increase my earnings. (The bootcamp closed about a year after I went there, so I got in at a good time.)

I did well there and got my job a few months after finishing the bootcamp. The first year or two I felt constantly challenged and growing as a developer but the years that have passed since then have been a dull blur. I am probably the least-capable and least technologically intelligent person on the team. I never learned hardly any computer science concepts, but don't ever use them anyway, so what I learned in code school has been pretty sufficient.

My intrinsic skillset as a human is extremely strong in reading/writing comprehension, analyzing ideas and concepts, and designing/crafting/building things, like writing a book, writing a song, or that sort of thing. I studied English in college because I enjoyed reading, writing, and was excellent at writing high-quality essays and reports, which seemed to come as naturally to me as breathing. I basically taught myself to fluency in Japanese in college. When I was a kid, I loved toys like Lego that allowed me to build and create.

However, I am poor at mathematics and spatial reasoning. This makes the mathematical side of programming, like animation and custom UI, incredibly difficult for me, yet I rarely even seem to be presented with this kind of work. I recently started doing some woodworking for fun with my dad, and I experience a similar mental lock-up when trying to figure out the measurement-based aspects of woodworking, although my weakness here may be based more on inexperience than anything else. I also don't really enjoy problem solving and mostly either get mad or find it tedious in the context of programming.

At work, I basically set my own hours, goof off for at least half of the day, and get paid triple what I ever made before this job, and everyone seems to think I'm doing just great. There is rarely enough work for the team, but management doesn't seem to notice or care. My team works on an app that looks nice but is redundant and pretty unnecessary, yet everyone seems enamored with it and there's no sign it's going to get canceled or whatever.

I recently got a massive raise for absolutely no reason. I have never worked a moment of overtime since I've been here. Basically, I get paid a mountain of money for doing very easy work, and it's incredibly unsatisfying. I would love to be doing something else other than programming since I find it boring, tedious, and unfulfilling, but I can't think of any other job I could get that would pay anywhere near what I make here. This whole situation makes me feel a constant sort of low-level contempt for my company because I feel like it's incredibly inefficient and makes dumb decisions, yet they're incredibly profitable so nobody seems to care. Further, in the time I've been here various sociological factors we frequently discuss here have caused me to hold a lot of technology we use (mobile devices, social media) in utter contempt.

Bottom line is that I don't really like being a programmer but don't see any way out of this toward something more rewarding. It seems like the savvy thing to do is keep quiet and milk the system for as long as I can.

A lot of my friends - while not overtly telling me this- imply it. They all make more money than me after a bootcamp and none of them had formal education. I feel like I'm spinning my wheels right now as well in a different type of engineering sales position after years of school debt. Pay has been stagnant and I have to work my ass off sometimes. I might actually end up switching gears and going your route simply because if I am to be neutral about my job - I might as well do it at a better paying one.
 
fiasco360 said:
HermeticAlly said:
I work in software development for a big company. The whole reason I'm here is for the money. I learned programming a few years ago because I had no idea what I should be doing for work, and going to a three-month bootcamp was affordable and looked like a good way to increase my earnings. (The bootcamp closed about a year after I went there, so I got in at a good time.)

I did well there and got my job a few months after finishing the bootcamp. The first year or two I felt constantly challenged and growing as a developer but the years that have passed since then have been a dull blur. I am probably the least-capable and least technologically intelligent person on the team. I never learned hardly any computer science concepts, but don't ever use them anyway, so what I learned in code school has been pretty sufficient.

My intrinsic skillset as a human is extremely strong in reading/writing comprehension, analyzing ideas and concepts, and designing/crafting/building things, like writing a book, writing a song, or that sort of thing. I studied English in college because I enjoyed reading, writing, and was excellent at writing high-quality essays and reports, which seemed to come as naturally to me as breathing. I basically taught myself to fluency in Japanese in college. When I was a kid, I loved toys like Lego that allowed me to build and create.

However, I am poor at mathematics and spatial reasoning. This makes the mathematical side of programming, like animation and custom UI, incredibly difficult for me, yet I rarely even seem to be presented with this kind of work. I recently started doing some woodworking for fun with my dad, and I experience a similar mental lock-up when trying to figure out the measurement-based aspects of woodworking, although my weakness here may be based more on inexperience than anything else. I also don't really enjoy problem solving and mostly either get mad or find it tedious in the context of programming.

At work, I basically set my own hours, goof off for at least half of the day, and get paid triple what I ever made before this job, and everyone seems to think I'm doing just great. There is rarely enough work for the team, but management doesn't seem to notice or care. My team works on an app that looks nice but is redundant and pretty unnecessary, yet everyone seems enamored with it and there's no sign it's going to get canceled or whatever.

I recently got a massive raise for absolutely no reason. I have never worked a moment of overtime since I've been here. Basically, I get paid a mountain of money for doing very easy work, and it's incredibly unsatisfying. I would love to be doing something else other than programming since I find it boring, tedious, and unfulfilling, but I can't think of any other job I could get that would pay anywhere near what I make here. This whole situation makes me feel a constant sort of low-level contempt for my company because I feel like it's incredibly inefficient and makes dumb decisions, yet they're incredibly profitable so nobody seems to care. Further, in the time I've been here various sociological factors we frequently discuss here have caused me to hold a lot of technology we use (mobile devices, social media) in utter contempt.

Bottom line is that I don't really like being a programmer but don't see any way out of this toward something more rewarding. It seems like the savvy thing to do is keep quiet and milk the system for as long as I can.

A lot of my friends - while not overtly telling me this- imply it. They all make more money than me after a bootcamp and none of them had formal education. I feel like I'm spinning my wheels right now as well in a different type of engineering sales position after years of school debt. Pay has been stagnant and I have to work my ass off sometimes. I might actually end up switching gears and going your route simply because if I am to be neutral about my job - I might as well do it at a better paying one.

I'm always curious to know how much these bootcamp grads actually make. I'm sitting on $110k after 7 years of grinding through a consulting gig in the engineering world - hard to believe someone with a few months of training can come close to that.

I've always wanted to enter tech and figure if I can put in 40 hrs/week for about 6 months, I should eclipse a bootcamp grad pretty easily.. just have to find out if that's the case.
 

fiasco360

Kingfisher
Orthodox
tugofpeace said:
fiasco360 said:
HermeticAlly said:
I work in software development for a big company. The whole reason I'm here is for the money. I learned programming a few years ago because I had no idea what I should be doing for work, and going to a three-month bootcamp was affordable and looked like a good way to increase my earnings. (The bootcamp closed about a year after I went there, so I got in at a good time.)

I did well there and got my job a few months after finishing the bootcamp. The first year or two I felt constantly challenged and growing as a developer but the years that have passed since then have been a dull blur. I am probably the least-capable and least technologically intelligent person on the team. I never learned hardly any computer science concepts, but don't ever use them anyway, so what I learned in code school has been pretty sufficient.

My intrinsic skillset as a human is extremely strong in reading/writing comprehension, analyzing ideas and concepts, and designing/crafting/building things, like writing a book, writing a song, or that sort of thing. I studied English in college because I enjoyed reading, writing, and was excellent at writing high-quality essays and reports, which seemed to come as naturally to me as breathing. I basically taught myself to fluency in Japanese in college. When I was a kid, I loved toys like Lego that allowed me to build and create.

However, I am poor at mathematics and spatial reasoning. This makes the mathematical side of programming, like animation and custom UI, incredibly difficult for me, yet I rarely even seem to be presented with this kind of work. I recently started doing some woodworking for fun with my dad, and I experience a similar mental lock-up when trying to figure out the measurement-based aspects of woodworking, although my weakness here may be based more on inexperience than anything else. I also don't really enjoy problem solving and mostly either get mad or find it tedious in the context of programming.

At work, I basically set my own hours, goof off for at least half of the day, and get paid triple what I ever made before this job, and everyone seems to think I'm doing just great. There is rarely enough work for the team, but management doesn't seem to notice or care. My team works on an app that looks nice but is redundant and pretty unnecessary, yet everyone seems enamored with it and there's no sign it's going to get canceled or whatever.

I recently got a massive raise for absolutely no reason. I have never worked a moment of overtime since I've been here. Basically, I get paid a mountain of money for doing very easy work, and it's incredibly unsatisfying. I would love to be doing something else other than programming since I find it boring, tedious, and unfulfilling, but I can't think of any other job I could get that would pay anywhere near what I make here. This whole situation makes me feel a constant sort of low-level contempt for my company because I feel like it's incredibly inefficient and makes dumb decisions, yet they're incredibly profitable so nobody seems to care. Further, in the time I've been here various sociological factors we frequently discuss here have caused me to hold a lot of technology we use (mobile devices, social media) in utter contempt.

Bottom line is that I don't really like being a programmer but don't see any way out of this toward something more rewarding. It seems like the savvy thing to do is keep quiet and milk the system for as long as I can.

A lot of my friends - while not overtly telling me this- imply it. They all make more money than me after a bootcamp and none of them had formal education. I feel like I'm spinning my wheels right now as well in a different type of engineering sales position after years of school debt. Pay has been stagnant and I have to work my ass off sometimes. I might actually end up switching gears and going your route simply because if I am to be neutral about my job - I might as well do it at a better paying one.

I'm always curious to know how much these bootcamp grads actually make. I'm sitting on $110k after 7 years of grinding through a consulting gig in the engineering world - hard to believe someone with a few months of training can come close to that.

I've always wanted to enter tech and figure if I can put in 40 hrs/week for about 6 months, I should eclipse a bootcamp grad pretty easily.. just have to find out if that's the case.

Almost every single one was making more than 100k after 18-24 months. Now after about 3 years or so a few are making 140k+
 
So here's a question for python developers. Do you guys actually deal with the object oriented stuff or not really?

Is the job repetitive? This might sound stupid, but I'm a bit autistic and enjoy doing something repetitive way more than doing something very quantitively demanding that just stresses me out.

Could you do the job from home? What I mean is, could you chill in a lower tier (cheaper country), while working for a company in the 1st world and making absolute bank?(assuming im a citizen of the 1st world country)
 

Hermetic Seal

Pelican
Orthodox
Gold Member
I make just under 100K. I don't doubt that some are making 130-140K. I'm sure if I cared enough to try to improve my job skills I might be able to find a job that paid a lot more, but I'd also probably be in a much less favorable work environment and have to work overtime (which I've never once had to do at my current job.)

Honestly the heyday of bootcamps was a couple of years ago, I'm not sure that now it's quite so easy to get a good job with that kind of education. A lot of those schools seem to have closed down.

I just wish there was something else I could do that would pay similar (or better) and use the things I'm really skilled at doing.
 

FullThrottleTX

Woodpecker
HermeticAlly said:
I make just under 100K. I don't doubt that some are making 130-140K. I'm sure if I cared enough to try to improve my job skills I might be able to find a job that paid a lot more, but I'd also probably be in a much less favorable work environment and have to work overtime (which I've never once had to do at my current job.)

Honestly the heyday of bootcamps was a couple of years ago, I'm not sure that now it's quite so easy to get a good job with that kind of education. A lot of those schools seem to have closed down.

I just wish there was something else I could do that would pay similar (or better) and use the things I'm really skilled at doing.

Disagree with this completely.
Bootcamps are thriving. It's the shit ones that didn't make it.
 

FullThrottleTX

Woodpecker
tugofpeace said:
I'm always curious to know how much these bootcamp grads actually make. I'm sitting on $110k after 7 years of grinding through a consulting gig in the engineering world - hard to believe someone with a few months of training can come close to that.

I've always wanted to enter tech and figure if I can put in 40 hrs/week for about 6 months, I should eclipse a bootcamp grad pretty easily.. just have to find out if that's the case.

I make $110. lol.
Bootcamp grad.
 

FullThrottleTX

Woodpecker
whitewashedblackguy said:
Shit, I'm going to sign up for a boot camp. I'll have to ask around to see if the market is still good. Why would it be getting worse though? Doesn't the world need programmers?

Definitely. The stack bootcamps are teaching too is highly in demand, typically Node JS and React.
 

FullThrottleTX

Woodpecker
HermeticAlly said:
I work in software development for a big company. The whole reason I'm here is for the money. I learned programming a few years ago because I had no idea what I should be doing for work, and going to a three-month bootcamp was affordable and looked like a good way to increase my earnings. (The bootcamp closed about a year after I went there, so I got in at a good time.)

I did well there and got my job a few months after finishing the bootcamp. The first year or two I felt constantly challenged and growing as a developer but the years that have passed since then have been a dull blur. I am probably the least-capable and least technologically intelligent person on the team. I never learned hardly any computer science concepts, but don't ever use them anyway, so what I learned in code school has been pretty sufficient.

My intrinsic skillset as a human is extremely strong in reading/writing comprehension, analyzing ideas and concepts, and designing/crafting/building things, like writing a book, writing a song, or that sort of thing. I studied English in college because I enjoyed reading, writing, and was excellent at writing high-quality essays and reports, which seemed to come as naturally to me as breathing. I basically taught myself to fluency in Japanese in college. When I was a kid, I loved toys like Lego that allowed me to build and create.

However, I am poor at mathematics and spatial reasoning. This makes the mathematical side of programming, like animation and custom UI, incredibly difficult for me, yet I rarely even seem to be presented with this kind of work. I recently started doing some woodworking for fun with my dad, and I experience a similar mental lock-up when trying to figure out the measurement-based aspects of woodworking, although my weakness here may be based more on inexperience than anything else. I also don't really enjoy problem solving and mostly either get mad or find it tedious in the context of programming.

At work, I basically set my own hours, goof off for at least half of the day, and get paid triple what I ever made before this job, and everyone seems to think I'm doing just great. There is rarely enough work for the team, but management doesn't seem to notice or care. My team works on an app that looks nice but is redundant and pretty unnecessary, yet everyone seems enamored with it and there's no sign it's going to get canceled or whatever.

I recently got a massive raise for absolutely no reason. I have never worked a moment of overtime since I've been here. Basically, I get paid a mountain of money for doing very easy work, and it's incredibly unsatisfying. I would love to be doing something else other than programming since I find it boring, tedious, and unfulfilling, but I can't think of any other job I could get that would pay anywhere near what I make here. This whole situation makes me feel a constant sort of low-level contempt for my company because I feel like it's incredibly inefficient and makes dumb decisions, yet they're incredibly profitable so nobody seems to care. Further, in the time I've been here various sociological factors we frequently discuss here have caused me to hold a lot of technology we use (mobile devices, social media) in utter contempt.

Bottom line is that I don't really like being a programmer but don't see any way out of this toward something more rewarding. It seems like the savvy thing to do is keep quiet and milk the system for as long as I can.

lol, basically:

"I get paid well, I goof off at work, I get a raise."
What's the problem man...

Do i love being a programmer? Not really. I'd rather do something like real estate or sales where I talk to people, I'm a sociable guy, but they have to work harder and hustle for way less than I make.

More bootcamp grads in the field helps eclipse the requirement for computer science degrees, so I'm all about that.
 
FullThrottleTX said:
Definitely. The stack bootcamps are teaching too is highly in demand, typically Node JS and React.

How long does the bootcamp last? Are you employable after?

Also I still haven't got an answer on this... But what type of programming are you actually doing in Python at this point ? Any object oriented or not really?
 

Captain Gh

Ostrich
Gold Member
^ Not a Python specialist, but it's used for Automated Intelligence and Data Science Analytics. It's widely popular because it's syntax is very simple. It really depends on what you want to do: Web Dev, Game Dev, Software Engineer, etc.

If I was in your position, I wouldn't focus on how quick you could get a job in the field... but how efficient you would be. I would recommend you get some $20 courses on UdeMy, master them, and then go on a Bootcamp if you can afford it. Might be an overkill... but with this recession coming... and women dwarfing men in college degrees... I'm not leaving anything to chance! A cert + proficiency = guaranteed Job!
 

Lampwick

Woodpecker
Gold Member
FullThrottleTX said:
Bootcamps are thriving. It's the shit ones that didn't make it.

Are there any specific bootcamps that you think are good? It seems that nowadays there are more bootcamps that offer Income Sharing Agreements, which is good. In other words, they get paid a percentage of your salary only if you actually get a job. This lessens the chances that you're going to get clipped $15k for no benefit. Lambda School seems to be the most prominent one with this model, but I've read mixed things about it.
 
Captain Gh said:
^ Not a Python specialist, but it's used for Automated Intelligence and Data Science Analytics. It's widely popular because it's syntax is very simple. It really depends on what you want to do: Web Dev, Game Dev, Software Engineer, etc.

If I was in your position, I wouldn't focus on how quick you could get a job in the field... but how efficient you would be. I would recommend you get some $20 courses on UdeMy, master them, and then go on a Bootcamp if you can afford it. Might be an overkill... but with this recession coming... and women dwarfing men in college degrees... I'm not leaving anything to chance! A cert + proficiency = guaranteed Job!

My current role is an EE specialist in the O/G industry. Nobody can really take my job, given how much of a niche it is. It's also incredibly technically intense.

My hope is that once I start programming, I can get good enough to the point where I can get into roles that are technically difficult so that I don't have to compete with riff raff. My current role has no women for competition, no SJWs, etc. Just masculine men who don't play politics.

Is programming even the right field for this, or should I be looking at something like analytics or something else? I want deep specialization so that I can command a large salary with little competition.
 
I’m doing some research myself, and there’s two areas that seem to be booming. The first is digital marketing. Not too sure about details, but you’re basically doing something to help people make money, which will never be out of style.

The next area is cyber security. It’s a $120 billion dollar industry that’s only growing. This will require staying up to date with all the new threats that people like Kim K don’t want to deal with.

Big players with stacks in both fields. Stacks that they want to give to us for a job well done.

It seems like boot camps that offer full stack offer this too. Both are high in demand. These are the two I’m thinking of going into.
 

FullThrottleTX

Woodpecker
Lampwick said:
FullThrottleTX said:
Bootcamps are thriving. It's the shit ones that didn't make it.

Are there any specific bootcamps that you think are good? It seems that nowadays there are more bootcamps that offer Income Sharing Agreements, which is good. In other words, they get paid a percentage of your salary only if you actually get a job. This lessens the chances that you're going to get clipped $15k for no benefit. Lambda School seems to be the most prominent one with this model, but I've read mixed things about it.

It's regionally different which bootcamps are good, it depends on what is in your area. Talk to some grads on LinkedIn.

I think the income sharing agreement is shitty. I wouldn't enter into one of those.
This is a class, an exchange of time and experience. You should pay for it.
 

FullThrottleTX

Woodpecker
Captain Gh said:
^ Not a Python specialist, but it's used for Automated Intelligence and Data Science Analytics. It's widely popular because it's syntax is very simple. It really depends on what you want to do: Web Dev, Game Dev, Software Engineer, etc.

If I was in your position, I wouldn't focus on how quick you could get a job in the field... but how efficient you would be. I would recommend you get some $20 courses on UdeMy, master them, and then go on a Bootcamp if you can afford it. Might be an overkill... but with this recession coming... and women dwarfing men in college degrees... I'm not leaving anything to chance! A cert + proficiency = guaranteed Job!

There's no recession coming... Not sure where you heard that. Especially in tech, the people with the skills are really hard to find. I've had some ridiculously high job offers thrown my way recently.

In software engineering, certs don't matter at all - and the ones that do (AWS) require experience. It's not going to impress someone that you paid for some kind of degree. Even the bootcamp is just a footnote on my resume, I don't play it up.

Your portfolio matters a lot for your first job and also, if you can throw in some freelance experience to get a full-time junior dev job. The bootcamp gives you networking connections you otherwise wouldn't have with companies specifically looking for junior devs to mentor and bring up.
 
Top