How to get a job as a python (or any other language) developer

FullThrottleTX

Woodpecker
Castillo said:
As a senior developer and team leader for many years in banking (I interviewed many developers too) my advice is also to learn C# Asp.Net and SQL (SQL server / NoSQL MongoDB etc), along with JQuery / Ajax etc. A lot of these technologies go hand in hand when doing application development. The Microsoft and other certifications are no substitute for experience, but as a junior dev they give you a broad understanding of the capabilities of the product and show that you are keen to learn - they certainly helped me get into banking. At least, do a SQL server certification as the knowledge is very useful. You wouldn’t believe the number of developers we interviewed in a investment bank who wrote on their Resume that they were experienced developers with 5-10 years but did not even know what a database Index is or why it is used.

Banking is not a good industry for an entry level dev whose self-taught without a CS degree. In the US, they typically only hire engineers that went through a traditional CS program, or have many years of experience. Nobody whose trying to learn coding on their own is going to pickup C# before JavaScript or Python. Jquery lol.

Microsoft devs in the US are a dime a dozen and the only way they stand out is by learning a frontend framework like React or Angular. I'd say focus on startups for your first job, the work is more exciting and interesting than at a big corp, and they're more likely to hire entry level.
 

Sensei Creation

Woodpecker
After literally years of putting this off. I made a decision last night to put my plan into effect.

I'm based in london.

My goal is to be making 40k in 1.5 years, 60k in 2.5 years and 80k in 3 years.

Currently working in finance making mid 20s. There is a good career here in finance if I stick to it but I want more.

My short term goal is to get a python/django job within 7 months and be making at least the same amount I'm making now.

Here in London, contract jobs for developers are at +£500 a day. 700+ at senior level - which is around the 4 year mark.

The problem is the entry level roles are starting to ask for degrees in CS, but I don't care, thanks to learning game - i'm pretty good at selling myself even if I don't have a degree someone will offer me an opportunity.

I don't want to waste time learning syntax working through codeacademy, that shit is boring. I'll pick it up as I go.

The gameplan is to make a couple portfolio apps, and then start applying for jobs around the 6 month mark. Probably dedicating 1 hour a night into this - a bit more on weekends.

Right now i'm working on the first app - a fully featured web app - following Corey Schafer's youtube tutorial series.

I'll be posting my progress on here periodically.
 

FullThrottleTX

Woodpecker
Sensei Creation said:
After literally years of putting this off. I made a decision last night to put my plan into effect.

I'm based in london.

My goal is to be making 40k in 1.5 years, 60k in 2.5 years and 80k in 3 years.

Currently working in finance making mid 20s. There is a good career here in finance if I stick to it but I want more.

My short term goal is to get a python/django job within 7 months and be making at least the same amount I'm making now.

Here in London, contract jobs for developers are at +£500 a day. 700+ at senior level - which is around the 4 year mark.

The problem is the entry level roles are starting to ask for degrees in CS, but I don't care, thanks to learning game - i'm pretty good at selling myself even if I don't have a degree someone will offer me an opportunity.

I don't want to waste time learning syntax working through codeacademy, that shit is boring. I'll pick it up as I go.

The gameplan is to make a couple portfolio apps, and then start applying for jobs around the 6 month mark. Probably dedicating 1 hour a night into this - a bit more on weekends.

Right now i'm working on the first app - a fully featured web app - following Corey Schafer's youtube tutorial series.

I'll be posting my progress on here periodically.

Ignore the degree and yrs of experience requirements. They teach us this in bootcamps. The only time I take it seriously is for big corps, since HR departments won't look the other way. Recruiters can help buck this issue, but you won't get recruiter action until year. Software engineering job posts are sometimes overly ambitious. When I tried to hire last year, I just wanted someone who was eager to learn and be a team player, honestly... On the hiring side, trust me it's hard hire engineers. You're getting into an undersaturated field.

You definitely need to learn HTML/CSS/JavaScript for your first job. Django is kind of on the outs, Flask is actually the framework that's being used more frequently in the Python world for new projects. You can probably learn both, Flask isn't that huge of a commitment to learn.

UK/Europe is different than the US, if you could get over here you'd make way more money. Entry level at least 60-70k in a moderate income state.
 

Lace em up

Woodpecker
Ive been holding off on asking questions related to programming until I completes an introductory computer science course. Its called CS50 and is offered through EdX. They use C during the course and Im told its a great foundation language. (Their is an alternate course that teaches intro CS using Python)

I cant help but think there could be a better foundation language to learn.

As I understand it, different industries favor different languages.

Speaking with a guy from a local tech company, tho hes not a programmer, he said they use C++ and he thinks they also use Python.

My question is, is C a good foundation for C++?

My goal is to become a knowledgeable and competent programmer.

Thanks
 

kel

Ostrich
Lace em up said:
My question is, is C a good foundation for C++?

Not really, unnecessary in any event, and neither is a good idea for getting off the ground. C isn't going anywhere, but it's not the hot language and it requires more discipline and fiddling than higher-level languages. I hate python and ruby and shit, but the simple fact is if your goal is to get a job (as you indicated in the other thread) you should learn a marketable, easy to learn, forgiving language like Python and focus on the skills, tools, and libraries startups are using.

I hate giving the above advice, because it'll turn you into the exact person I hate dealing with at work and have little respect for, but on an individual level it's good advice. I hope you'll continue your education, get more rigorous and really learn the art of crafting good software, but the shortest path from where you are to a high-paying job is taking a few weeks to learn practical python (first the fundamentals then the tools, learn django or whatever the popular server framework is now) and then trying to get a job where you can continue learning on-the-clock and build your resume.
 

FullThrottleTX

Woodpecker
kel said:
Lace em up said:
My question is, is C a good foundation for C++?

Not really, unnecessary in any event, and neither is a good idea for getting off the ground. C isn't going anywhere, but it's not the hot language and it requires more discipline and fiddling than higher-level languages. I hate python and ruby and shit, but the simple fact is if your goal is to get a job (as you indicated in the other thread) you should learn a marketable, easy to learn, forgiving language like Python and focus on the skills, tools, and libraries startups are using.

I hate giving the above advice, because it'll turn you into the exact person I hate dealing with at work and have little respect for, but on an individual level it's good advice. I hope you'll continue your education, get more rigorous and really learn the art of crafting good software, but the shortest path from where you are to a high-paying job is taking a few weeks to learn practical python (first the fundamentals then the tools, learn django or whatever the popular server framework is now) and then trying to get a job where you can continue learning on-the-clock and build your resume.

Truth of the matter is your personality and interests should probably dictate what kind of environment you should target for your tech skills. I've worked with quite a few of these "this is my craft" kinda guys. They tend to be slow, dogmatic, and overcomplicate things. Since they don't have a business-sided objective, they need an engineering manager to advocate for them. I think these personalities are a better fit in a big company where they'll have the time and support to "do things the right way", and less so in a startup environment where they'll be frustrated by deadlines and pressure to deliver new features that may not have 100% code coverage, perfect accessibility, ect.

I don't have a ton of interest in the craft of programming beyond discovering ways to make the outcome better for end users and business users alike. My interest is delivering for the business and seeing my work out there in production. Code is just code, but the thing I'm building and the problems I'm solving are what's important.
 

Lace em up

Woodpecker
FullThrottleTX said:
kel said:
Lace em up said:
My question is, is C a good foundation for C++?

Not really, unnecessary in any event, and neither is a good idea for getting off the ground. C isn't going anywhere, but it's not the hot language and it requires more discipline and fiddling than higher-level languages. I hate python and ruby and shit, but the simple fact is if your goal is to get a job (as you indicated in the other thread) you should learn a marketable, easy to learn, forgiving language like Python and focus on the skills, tools, and libraries startups are using.

I hate giving the above advice, because it'll turn you into the exact person I hate dealing with at work and have little respect for, but on an individual level it's good advice. I hope you'll continue your education, get more rigorous and really learn the art of crafting good software, but the shortest path from where you are to a high-paying job is taking a few weeks to learn practical python (first the fundamentals then the tools, learn django or whatever the popular server framework is now) and then trying to get a job where you can continue learning on-the-clock and build your resume.

Truth of the matter is your personality and interests should probably dictate what kind of environment you should target for your tech skills. I've worked with quite a few of these "this is my craft" kinda guys. They tend to be slow, dogmatic, and overcomplicate things. Since they don't have a business-sided objective, they need an engineering manager to advocate for them. I think these personalities are a better fit in a big company where they'll have the time and support to "do things the right way", and less so in a startup environment where they'll be frustrated by deadlines and pressure to deliver new features that may not have 100% code coverage, perfect accessibility, ect.

I don't have a ton of interest in the craft of programming beyond discovering ways to make the outcome better for end users and business users alike. My interest is delivering for the business and seeing my work out there in production. Code is just code, but the thing I'm building and the problems I'm solving are what's important.

I plan to stay away from the big companies as I dont want to deal their bs. I'll be focusing on startups, it seems. Does the direct to Python route seem like the best route to take? Any other advice would be welcome.

Thanks
 

FullThrottleTX

Woodpecker
Lace em up said:
FullThrottleTX said:
kel said:
Lace em up said:
My question is, is C a good foundation for C++?

Not really, unnecessary in any event, and neither is a good idea for getting off the ground. C isn't going anywhere, but it's not the hot language and it requires more discipline and fiddling than higher-level languages. I hate python and ruby and shit, but the simple fact is if your goal is to get a job (as you indicated in the other thread) you should learn a marketable, easy to learn, forgiving language like Python and focus on the skills, tools, and libraries startups are using.

I hate giving the above advice, because it'll turn you into the exact person I hate dealing with at work and have little respect for, but on an individual level it's good advice. I hope you'll continue your education, get more rigorous and really learn the art of crafting good software, but the shortest path from where you are to a high-paying job is taking a few weeks to learn practical python (first the fundamentals then the tools, learn django or whatever the popular server framework is now) and then trying to get a job where you can continue learning on-the-clock and build your resume.

Truth of the matter is your personality and interests should probably dictate what kind of environment you should target for your tech skills. I've worked with quite a few of these "this is my craft" kinda guys. They tend to be slow, dogmatic, and overcomplicate things. Since they don't have a business-sided objective, they need an engineering manager to advocate for them. I think these personalities are a better fit in a big company where they'll have the time and support to "do things the right way", and less so in a startup environment where they'll be frustrated by deadlines and pressure to deliver new features that may not have 100% code coverage, perfect accessibility, ect.

I don't have a ton of interest in the craft of programming beyond discovering ways to make the outcome better for end users and business users alike. My interest is delivering for the business and seeing my work out there in production. Code is just code, but the thing I'm building and the problems I'm solving are what's important.

I plan to stay away from the big companies as I dont want to deal their bs. I'll be focusing on startups, it seems. Does the direct to Python route seem like the best route to take? Any other advice would be welcome.

Thanks

Startups have a fair share of BS too... Don't get me started on ping pong tables. Because startups are very heavy in millennials, you're going to find more SJWs.
Big company gigs are very cushy by comparison.

JavaScript/Node and Python.
HTML and CSS.

You can learn all of these easily as a beginner.
 

Lace em up

Woodpecker
FullThrottleTX said:
Lace em up said:
FullThrottleTX said:
kel said:
Lace em up said:
My question is, is C a good foundation for C++?

Not really, unnecessary in any event, and neither is a good idea for getting off the ground. C isn't going anywhere, but it's not the hot language and it requires more discipline and fiddling than higher-level languages. I hate python and ruby and shit, but the simple fact is if your goal is to get a job (as you indicated in the other thread) you should learn a marketable, easy to learn, forgiving language like Python and focus on the skills, tools, and libraries startups are using.

I hate giving the above advice, because it'll turn you into the exact person I hate dealing with at work and have little respect for, but on an individual level it's good advice. I hope you'll continue your education, get more rigorous and really learn the art of crafting good software, but the shortest path from where you are to a high-paying job is taking a few weeks to learn practical python (first the fundamentals then the tools, learn django or whatever the popular server framework is now) and then trying to get a job where you can continue learning on-the-clock and build your resume.

Truth of the matter is your personality and interests should probably dictate what kind of environment you should target for your tech skills. I've worked with quite a few of these "this is my craft" kinda guys. They tend to be slow, dogmatic, and overcomplicate things. Since they don't have a business-sided objective, they need an engineering manager to advocate for them. I think these personalities are a better fit in a big company where they'll have the time and support to "do things the right way", and less so in a startup environment where they'll be frustrated by deadlines and pressure to deliver new features that may not have 100% code coverage, perfect accessibility, ect.

I don't have a ton of interest in the craft of programming beyond discovering ways to make the outcome better for end users and business users alike. My interest is delivering for the business and seeing my work out there in production. Code is just code, but the thing I'm building and the problems I'm solving are what's important.

I plan to stay away from the big companies as I dont want to deal their bs. I'll be focusing on startups, it seems. Does the direct to Python route seem like the best route to take? Any other advice would be welcome.

Thanks

Startups have a fair share of BS too... Don't get me started on ping pong tables. Because startups are very heavy in millennials, you're going to find more SJWs.
Big company gigs are very cushy by comparison.

JavaScript/Node and Python.
HTML and CSS.

You can learn all of these easily as a beginner.

Every time I think I learn something about the business in general, I find out I dont know what I think I know. So big companies have less SJWs. Thats the crazy bs Im trying to avoid, as much as possible. So big companies it is.

Does your previously mentioned route hold true for larger companies?

Thanks
 

FullThrottleTX

Woodpecker
Lace em up said:
FullThrottleTX said:
Lace em up said:
FullThrottleTX said:
kel said:
Not really, unnecessary in any event, and neither is a good idea for getting off the ground. C isn't going anywhere, but it's not the hot language and it requires more discipline and fiddling than higher-level languages. I hate python and ruby and shit, but the simple fact is if your goal is to get a job (as you indicated in the other thread) you should learn a marketable, easy to learn, forgiving language like Python and focus on the skills, tools, and libraries startups are using.

I hate giving the above advice, because it'll turn you into the exact person I hate dealing with at work and have little respect for, but on an individual level it's good advice. I hope you'll continue your education, get more rigorous and really learn the art of crafting good software, but the shortest path from where you are to a high-paying job is taking a few weeks to learn practical python (first the fundamentals then the tools, learn django or whatever the popular server framework is now) and then trying to get a job where you can continue learning on-the-clock and build your resume.

Truth of the matter is your personality and interests should probably dictate what kind of environment you should target for your tech skills. I've worked with quite a few of these "this is my craft" kinda guys. They tend to be slow, dogmatic, and overcomplicate things. Since they don't have a business-sided objective, they need an engineering manager to advocate for them. I think these personalities are a better fit in a big company where they'll have the time and support to "do things the right way", and less so in a startup environment where they'll be frustrated by deadlines and pressure to deliver new features that may not have 100% code coverage, perfect accessibility, ect.

I don't have a ton of interest in the craft of programming beyond discovering ways to make the outcome better for end users and business users alike. My interest is delivering for the business and seeing my work out there in production. Code is just code, but the thing I'm building and the problems I'm solving are what's important.

I plan to stay away from the big companies as I dont want to deal their bs. I'll be focusing on startups, it seems. Does the direct to Python route seem like the best route to take? Any other advice would be welcome.

Thanks

Startups have a fair share of BS too... Don't get me started on ping pong tables. Because startups are very heavy in millennials, you're going to find more SJWs.
Big company gigs are very cushy by comparison.

JavaScript/Node and Python.
HTML and CSS.

You can learn all of these easily as a beginner.

Every time I think I learn something about the business in general, I find out I dont know what I think I know. So big companies have less SJWs. Thats the crazy bs Im trying to avoid, as much as possible. So big companies it is.

Does your previously mentioned route hold true for larger companies?

Thanks

What "crazy BS" are you trying to avoid?

More young people in startups, whereas big companies have a mix of ages.

Stack depends on the job.
 

Lace em up

Woodpecker
FullThrottleTX said:
Lace em up said:
FullThrottleTX said:
Lace em up said:
FullThrottleTX said:
Truth of the matter is your personality and interests should probably dictate what kind of environment you should target for your tech skills. I've worked with quite a few of these "this is my craft" kinda guys. They tend to be slow, dogmatic, and overcomplicate things. Since they don't have a business-sided objective, they need an engineering manager to advocate for them. I think these personalities are a better fit in a big company where they'll have the time and support to "do things the right way", and less so in a startup environment where they'll be frustrated by deadlines and pressure to deliver new features that may not have 100% code coverage, perfect accessibility, ect.

I don't have a ton of interest in the craft of programming beyond discovering ways to make the outcome better for end users and business users alike. My interest is delivering for the business and seeing my work out there in production. Code is just code, but the thing I'm building and the problems I'm solving are what's important.

I plan to stay away from the big companies as I dont want to deal their bs. I'll be focusing on startups, it seems. Does the direct to Python route seem like the best route to take? Any other advice would be welcome.

Thanks

Startups have a fair share of BS too... Don't get me started on ping pong tables. Because startups are very heavy in millennials, you're going to find more SJWs.
Big company gigs are very cushy by comparison.

JavaScript/Node and Python.
HTML and CSS.

You can learn all of these easily as a beginner.

Every time I think I learn something about the business in general, I find out I dont know what I think I know. So big companies have less SJWs. Thats the crazy bs Im trying to avoid, as much as possible. So big companies it is.

Does your previously mentioned route hold true for larger companies?

Thanks

What "crazy BS" are you trying to avoid?

More young people in startups, whereas big companies have a mix of ages.

Stack depends on the job.

I am trying to avoid working with SJWs and their crazy BS. (Bruce Jenner being named "Woman of the Year" levels of crazy BS) I am aware I may need to take a job that is less than desirable for my first programming job. As a gen Xer, I would like to position myself as to not be slamming my dick in the door. I realize I wont be hireable at Google or Amazon or Facebook etc...

Short term goal - Get hired as a programmer at medium sized company.

Medium term goal - Get good at programming. Find high paying job.

Long term (5 yr) goal - Become an excellent programmer. Work remote.

Thanks
 

worldtraveler3

Kingfisher
its good you have clear goals. now the next step is get out there and approach companies, online and through events. I think you wouldnt need 5 years to work remote though. 3 years should be enough, prob depends on what market you are in but 3 years you should be good at it.

The thing about big companies is that your progression might be slower and you might feel you arent learning as much.
 

lestatt

Pigeon
I need advice: I am 49 years old and I work in a multinational company in Italy and I am paid pretty well as a software developer in the Java Enterprise environment.
My desire was to change roles and become project managers, unfortunately it seems that the company has no intention of making me do anything else.
Having to stay in a technical role, what do you advise me to study to update myself professionally?
I don't like the frontend part, and I'd love to start my own company...
 

kel

Ostrich
lestatt said:
I need advice: I am 49 years old and I work in a multinational company in Italy and I am paid pretty well as a software developer in the Java Enterprise environment.
My desire was to change roles and become project managers, unfortunately it seems that the company has no intention of making me do anything else.
Having to stay in a technical role, what do you advise me to study to update myself professionally?
I don't like the frontend part, and I'd love to start my own company...

In terms of tech, something boring but reliable and more modern than Java. Python, NodeJS (I know you don't like frontend, but if you get experience with JS on the backend you could quickly up your frontend game as well if it became advantageous), etc.

I suggest, though, that you look to move out to move up, and stick with your plan to become a project manager. At 49, if you want to move into management you'd better do it now, establish yourself as a wise sage who focuses on the big picture and managing and mentoring people. Apply to other companies and just tell them the truth - you've been honing your management and project planning skills for years, but you've hit the ceiling in your current organization, so you're looking to make a move.
 
How is IR35 affecting your contracting at the minute @frenchcorporation ?

Managed to get on a free, pretty well known UK coding bootcamp based in the Midlands. Learning Javascript and React at the moment. Shit is super intense, but I'm glad I made the leap to do it
 
TechLead has made two videos recently in which he talks about the "diversity-gone-too-far" hiring processes.

In the second video he shows an instance where an Oracle internship mentioned "African Americans, Latino, Native Americans, and/or Women" in the Eligibility section.

Title VII of Civil Rights Act of 1964
SEC. 2000e-2. [Section 703]
(a) It shall be an unlawful employment practice for an employer -

(1) to fail or refuse to hire or to discharge any individual, or otherwise to discriminate against any individual with respect to his compensation, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment, because of such individual's race, color, religion, sex, or national origin;

Do you guys who work in the field have seen this? Or is it blown out of proportion?
 

kel

Ostrich
Too long, didn't watch, but big corporations almost always have something like "we specifically encourage.... to apply" type lines in their job listings, and startups will at least have some kind of diversity statement in their ToS that nobody reads.

That kind of open discrimination is preferable, IMO. More pernicious is the culture of self-censor, or even culture of de facto mandatory active endorsement. I've worked at both big tech companies and hip startups, and both are high on their own supply culturally. None dare question it, really. It's nice when, in an intimiate one-on-one type situation, you can break the ice a little. Just a bit, in a fun way, I'm not talking going 1488, but with a coworker you can make a joke that you know you're not supposed to. Aiming for small "transgressions" like that, that's what it's come to.
 
Top