How to handle this / learning from situation - friends + dating?

SingularityOne

Woodpecker
Orthodox
I had a party at my house and invited a few of my friends. One of them invited a girl I found attractive and we were slightly hitting it off after a bit and there was a hint of IOI’s. Later in the evening one of my other guy friends came over and in a bit they were sharing IOI’s much more than she was for me and as the night went on I just went over and joined their conversation and then at the end of the night I got her number and he did too (I can share more details about the night, but I think this suffices for a birds-eye-view). I sent her a text to set up a date that night and she responded in the morning. Went like this:

Me: ““my name” - enjoyed connecting with you tonight and hope you enjoy the book. What’s your schedule like this coming week to grab a drink or coffee?”

Her: Hi name! I enjoyed meeting you as well! I look forward to reading it.
Haha yes that would be great. My schedule is pretty open! We could aim for Friday?

Me: Friday it is. Let’s hit (nice bar) at 5:30p! Sound good to you?

Her: Sure! Ive never been! Can I park at your place?

Me: You’ll love it. It’s right next to the park for a walk too. - Sure thing!

Her: Awesome, im excited! Would you mind sending your address?

Me: likewise - (address)

The next day my friend and some other guys go to the gym and I learn she texted him to go on a date as well (although I reach out to her to do so). So that just shows she had more interest in him than I, once again.

They went on a date to a history museum (which was a great call since that was one of her passions). Then my friend texted me to chat the following day about her since he knew I set up the date with her on Friday. He said on the call the next day that they had hit it off and she just saw me as a friend, but I told him I’m expecting the date since that’s what I had set up with her but there are no hard feelings, just not going to back down since they hit it off and would resent myself for not doing so as that would go against my desire to not keep to my plans. Shortly after that I get a text from her as follows:

Her: Hey! I know you and (my friend’s name) talked. Id still like to get to know you as a friend, let me know if you would still like to hang out tomorrow. I hope there are no hard feelings.

Me: Thanks for letting me know. I appreciate your honesty. I don’t think it would be a good idea to hang out tomorrow, however I hope to see you whenever the whole group gets together.

Her: Aw okay I understand. I hope we can still be friends.
Johnny depp won the trial btw (addendum; to fill y’all in on the background on that “trial” addition, it was off of a convo we had during the party)

Me: What a crazy case. And of course we can be friends! Just maybe not best friends… lol.
Her: Justice was served at least! Well if you ever want to grab a friendly coffee let me know!

—-

Anyways, trying to learn from this experience, so any feedback? Also, should I respond to her last text, or nah?

I can provide more context and details if it would be helpful. But, honestly, I don’t want to be an orbiter, but also hot girls potentially have hot friends… so it’s a balancing act of trying to be discerning here without being butt-hurt.
 
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Jive Turkey

Kingfisher
Orthodox Catechumen
Don't act butthurt. Let the situation cool down a bit. Respect to you for not backing down to your friend, and what you said about meeting her friends is bang on. Networking is very powerful in the dating world, especially if you are going to get togethers. I would just remain friends with her, don't go out of your way to form a relationship, but be cordial and chatty with her when you see her and absolutely do not let her know that you got upset about this.

All in all not a terrible repetition. You don't get to close 100% of your leads. Just cross it out of your mind that anything can ever happen with this girl. A female who would schedule dates with two friends in the same week is a bullet you want to dodge!
 

SingularityOne

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Don't act butthurt. Let the situation cool down a bit. Respect to you for not backing down to your friend, and what you said about meeting her friends is bang on. Networking is very powerful in the dating world, especially if you are going to get togethers. I would just remain friends with her, don't go out of your way to form a relationship, but be cordial and chatty with her when you see her and absolutely do not let her know that you got upset about this.

All in all not a terrible repetition. You don't get to close 100% of your leads. Just cross it out of your mind that anything can ever happen with this girl. A female who would schedule dates with two friends in the same week is a bullet you want to dodge!
Thanks man. Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out if I should send anything back to her via text per her last response so that I can potentially meet some friends if she has any. Don't want to lose that opportunity, although maybe I just need to be patient and do what you say in the last portion of your first paragraph regarding being chatty and cordial with her when I see her but not going out of my way to form a relationship with her - I just want to be discerningly-wise and loving.

You're right. Part of me started to feel inferior, but all in all, I think I did all I could given the circumstances. Totally in the mindset of detaching from any outcome with her. The only thing I questioned is if she saw my ask as a date... but... I think she knew that due to her letting me know that in the text after all. Question though... why is it a dodged bullet/red flag to miss out on her because she scheduled dates with two friends in the same week?
 

Philip Dru

Sparrow
Trad Catholic
Agreed with Jive. You got the number and kept your self respect. Asking for a critique is also not easy.

As far as improvements: I would focus on keeping gals on their toes with engaging, funny, and challenging conversation. I don't know how the conversation at the party went, I can only speak to your texts.

Her: Sure! Ive never been! Can I park at your place?
You: For a price - I charge $20 per hour for that space on Fridays. The local synagogue hosts a rap battle and space is at a premium.

My example is stupid but you get my point. Anger, confusion, fear, and humor can all lead to more attraction. Boredom wont. I'm not suggesting lie, any halfway intelligent gal will suspect you are being facetious and just having fun.
 

SingularityOne

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Agreed with Jive. You got the number and kept your self respect. Asking for a critique is also not easy.

As far as improvements: I would focus on keeping gals on their toes with engaging, funny, and challenging conversation. I don't know how the conversation at the party went, I can only speak to your texts.

Her: Sure! Ive never been! Can I park at your place?
You: For a price - I charge $20 per hour for that space on Fridays. The local synagogue hosts a rap battle and space is at a premium.

My example is stupid but you get my point. Anger, confusion, fear, and humor can all lead to more attraction. Boredom wont. I'm not suggesting lie, any halfway intelligent gal will suspect you are being facetious and just having fun.
You're right about being "engaging, funny, and challenging" in conversation. I was doing that a bit at the party, but once my friend got there her IOI's/energy switched to him from my perception although we are both of a pretty similar SMV (for the lack of a better word to express what I'm trying to get across).

The example makes sense though, so I appreciate the critique for improvement here brother. I think I need to utilize emotion a bit more instead of only staying in my head. I don't trust my gut either since I'm mainly a heady guy that has a hard time trusting emotion. Are you saying to try to evoke "anger, confusion, fear, and humor" or exhibit it myself considering being "boring" by not being "engaging, funny, and challenging" to evoke "anger, confusion, fear, and humor" is what I think I'm understanding you to say?

Funny you say all of this since I'm a therapist and probably would do well to learn all of this to help the couples I counsel too. Next growth area, lol.
 

Philip Dru

Sparrow
Trad Catholic
You're right about being "engaging, funny, and challenging" in conversation. I was doing that a bit at the party, but once my friend got there her IOI's/energy switched to him from my perception although we are both of a pretty similar SMV (for the lack of a better word to express what I'm trying to get across).

The example makes sense though, so I appreciate the critique for improvement here brother. I think I need to utilize emotion a bit more instead of only staying in my head. I don't trust my gut either since I'm mainly a heady guy that has a hard time trusting emotion. Are you saying to try to evoke "anger, confusion, fear, and humor" or exhibit it myself considering being "boring" by not being "engaging, funny, and challenging" to evoke "anger, confusion, fear, and humor" is what I think I'm understanding you to say?

Funny you say all of this since I'm a therapist and probably would do well to learn all of this to help the couples I counsel too. Next growth area, lol.

I offer it with humility, brother.

I mean that since boredom is such an attraction killer, we are incentivized to be bold in conversation. I wouldn't intentionally try to evoke anger, but when I was single I would say things to entertain myself, sometimes just to see how a woman would respond to it. Even if she responds poorly (e.g. anger) you are still better off than if she is bored. And more importantly you had fun with it and enjoyed yourself.
 

SingularityOne

Woodpecker
Orthodox
I offer it with humility, brother.

I mean that since boredom is such an attraction killer, we are incentivized to be bold in conversation. I wouldn't intentionally try to evoke anger, but when I was single I would say things to entertain myself, sometimes just to see how a woman would respond to it. Even if she responds poorly (e.g. anger) you are still better off than if she is bored. And more importantly you had fun with it and enjoyed yourself.
Yeah, I agree. Seems to come down to abundance mentality and outcome independence given what you've said here which seems to centre around humility/trust in God's Providence and courage and joy. I guess I fear angering women (or just others in general) still and that may be my next area of growth to process why this is the case. I just want to enjoy the present moment and the interactions that God has gifted me with in each present moment. How would you advise someone to grow in this area on top of approaching women in the areas that they are going in their day-to-day (as I already do) so they can push past caring about how the other person reacts without go so far as to be a fool without any social consciousness? I think the extremes on their side lead women to boredom (due to caring so much about how the other reacts so they don’t take any risks) or rejection (due to blowing past social cues of disgust, uncomfort, etc.). The reason I ask that letter question is that there was a guy at the party that said some line-crossing things to the girls and that really turned them off due to his inability to read social cues and have emotional intelligence/secure attachment.
 
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Philip Dru

Sparrow
Trad Catholic
Yeah, I agree. Seems to come down to abundance mentality and outcome independence given what you've said here which seems to centre around humility/trust in God's Providence and courage and joy. I guess I fear angering women (or just others in general) still and that may be my next area of growth. I just want to enjoy the present moment and the interactions that God has gifted me with in each present moment. How would you advise someone to grow in this area on top of approaching women in the areas that they are going in their day-to-day (as I already do)?
Amen. Well said. I think this next area of growth is going to be a rewarding one.

In my mid 20's I practiced with everyone I met, regardless of gender: customers. coworkers. neighbors. Just in general I tried to keep people on their toes and I strove to accept more conversational risk, whatever that meant to me at the time. Surprisingly, there is almost zero difference between having a memorable conversation with your 80 year old widow neighbor and the hot girl at the party.

Also, I met my wife east coast swing dancing. You might want to try that. Women like dancing and old fashioned dances attract old fashioned women. Average IQ in that group is a standard deviation above the norm. Covid has demolished dance communities though.
 

SingularityOne

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Amen. Well said. I think this next area of growth is going to be a rewarding one.

In my mid 20's I practiced with everyone I met, regardless of gender: customers. coworkers. neighbors. Just in general I tried to keep people on their toes and I strove to accept more conversational risk, whatever that meant to me at the time. Surprisingly, there is almost zero difference between having a memorable conversation with your 80 year old widow neighbor and the hot girl at the party.

Also, I met my wife east coast swing dancing. You might want to try that. Women like dancing and old fashioned dances attract old fashioned women. Average IQ in that group is a standard deviation above the norm. Covid has demolished dance communities though.
God-willing! Through your prayers.

That’s a good point about the 80-y/o neighbor having little difference in conversation compared to the hot girl at the party. I just need to find my edge of tolerance for the risk and figure out how to push myself just over that edge more and more to grow in conversational risk. Thanks for that tip.

Funnily enough, I go to a swing dancing meet-up every other Friday just to get myself out of my comfort zone. I’ll keep it up as it sounds like a good environment. Plus, swing dancing is so fun and gets me out of my head and into my body. Being in Nashville, there is a thriving scene building back up thankfully.
 

Philip Dru

Sparrow
Trad Catholic
God-willing! Through your prayers.

That’s a good point about the 80-y/o neighbor having little difference in conversation compared to the hot girl at the party. I just need to find my edge of tolerance for the risk and figure out how to push myself just over that edge more and more to grow in conversational risk. Thanks for that tip.

Funnily enough, I go to a swing dancing meet-up every other Friday just to get myself out of my comfort zone. I’ll keep it up as it sounds like a good environment. Plus, swing dancing is so fun and gets me out of my head and into my body. Being in Nashville, there is a thriving scene building back up thankfully.
The prayers are on the way. We just need God to bring you the one that won't turn back towards Sodom.
 

kennygee

Chicken
Protestant
First off, what the heck is an IOI? I turn 40 next month so I'm not up to speed with the lingo these days.

I agree with the previous posts. Keep her and your other friends in the network. Also stay cool and never act with a scarcity mindset. I wouldn't keep a text thread going, but if you see her in groups just be friendly and funny. In the end you might find someone better for you. I look at some of the girls that it didn't' work out with from my past and man I dodged some bullets. I met my wife through a mutual friend (not a hookup or blind date), but just an encounter while I was with a group of friends. She was really a great girl (still is), but she had a boyfriend. I kept in the group of friends and a year later she was broken up with that boyfriend. That was 12 years ago. We are happily married and I thought I wouldn't fin a quality woman to marry, but it's possible.
 

SingularityOne

Woodpecker
Orthodox
First off, what the heck is an IOI? I turn 40 next month so I'm not up to speed with the lingo these days.

I agree with the previous posts. Keep her and your other friends in the network. Also stay cool and never act with a scarcity mindset. I wouldn't keep a text thread going, but if you see her in groups just be friendly and funny. In the end you might find someone better for you. I look at some of the girls that it didn't' work out with from my past and man I dodged some bullets. I met my wife through a mutual friend (not a hookup or blind date), but just an encounter while I was with a group of friends. She was really a great girl (still is), but she had a boyfriend. I kept in the group of friends and a year later she was broken up with that boyfriend. That was 12 years ago. We are happily married and I thought I wouldn't fin a quality woman to marry, but it's possible.
Indicator of interest; energy, attention, non-verbals, etc. that indicate they are interested in someone.

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, that all makes sense. How do you develop more of the abundance mindset as that seems central to what you’re saying here?
 

plotinus

Chicken
Catholic
Interesting thread. Maybe I'm old and jaded at this point in life, but OP, does it bother you to have to jestermax? Be funny, be confident, keep her on her toes, bro!! Don't worry, I'm sure she'll need you to change her oil or something lol!!

And kennygee, congrats on 12 years or marriage, but doesn't it ever bother you that you were the second choice, the backup?
 
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BasilSeal

Kingfisher
Catholic
Gold Member
Welcome to the forum, first poster. You do know that sometimes second choice is the best choice in disguise, and it isn't always obvious at first, right? God arranges His plans in a timeline that works for Him.
 

Viktor Zeegelaar

Crow
Orthodox Inquirer
I had a party at my house and invited a few of my friends. One of them invited a girl I found attractive and we were slightly hitting it off after a bit and there was a hint of IOI’s. Later in the evening one of my other guy friends came over and in a bit they were sharing IOI’s much more than she was for me and as the night went on I just went over and joined their conversation and then at the end of the night I got her number and he did too (I can share more details about the night, but I think this suffices for a birds-eye-view). I sent her a text to set up a date that night and she responded in the morning. Went like this:

Me: ““my name” - enjoyed connecting with you tonight and hope you enjoy the book. What’s your schedule like this coming week to grab a drink or coffee?”

Her: Hi name! I enjoyed meeting you as well! I look forward to reading it.
Haha yes that would be great. My schedule is pretty open! We could aim for Friday?

Me: Friday it is. Let’s hit (nice bar) at 5:30p! Sound good to you?

Her: Sure! Ive never been! Can I park at your place?

Me: You’ll love it. It’s right next to the park for a walk too. - Sure thing!

Her: Awesome, im excited! Would you mind sending your address?

Me: likewise - (address)

The next day my friend and some other guys go to the gym and I learn she texted him to go on a date as well (although I reach out to her to do so). So that just shows she had more interest in him than I, once again.

They went on a date to a history museum (which was a great call since that was one of her passions). Then my friend texted me to chat the following day about her since he knew I set up the date with her on Friday. He said on the call the next day that they had hit it off and she just saw me as a friend, but I told him I’m expecting the date since that’s what I had set up with her but there are no hard feelings, just not going to back down since they hit it off and would resent myself for not doing so as that would go against my desire to not keep to my plans. Shortly after that I get a text from her as follows:

Her: Hey! I know you and (my friend’s name) talked. Id still like to get to know you as a friend, let me know if you would still like to hang out tomorrow. I hope there are no hard feelings.

Me: Thanks for letting me know. I appreciate your honesty. I don’t think it would be a good idea to hang out tomorrow, however I hope to see you whenever the whole group gets together.

Her: Aw okay I understand. I hope we can still be friends.
Johnny depp won the trial btw (addendum; to fill y’all in on the background on that “trial” addition, it was off of a convo we had during the party)

Me: What a crazy case. And of course we can be friends! Just maybe not best friends… lol.
Her: Justice was served at least! Well if you ever want to grab a friendly coffee let me know!

—-

Anyways, trying to learn from this experience, so any feedback? Also, should I respond to her last text, or nah?

I can provide more context and details if it would be helpful. But, honestly, I don’t want to be an orbiter, but also hot girls potentially have hot friends… so it’s a balancing act of trying to be discerning here without being butt-hurt.
First of all analyze what's up with your friend and you. A bunch of full grown men competing for the same woman is a red flag. If I'd be with a friend in the past and a friend would go in, that's his girl from that point on to try to get something going with, I stay out of that. Real friends don't compete with each other for a woman, simple as, so evaluate the core of the relationship, make appointments with each other how to handle these situations and state what boundaries you guys have with each other regarding women. Also, I don't know whether this is the case, but never allow a friend to ''badmouth'' you with women. Sometimes guys do this, they pull their friends down by making jokes or whatever, this is unacceptable behavior and you should always be getting each other up. So when your friend is working on a woman and he's off for a second, you tell her why he's such a great guy and vice versa.

Second, you're in a scarcity mindset. It's 1 girl. Don't fall into the classic oneitis, where you idealize a certain girl or situation. She's probably just a girl in her early 20s getting a ton of attention and maybe your friend is more of what she looks for in that particular time. Especially if she's in her early 20s and especially if secular the fun dude is more appealing, and your friend may be the more fun/exciting guy. Usually when women are 30 they come back more to the providing, protecting guys, the more traditional guys let's say, and you may be one of them. That's just a dynamic to be aware of, so how to deal with that depends on what you want and who your target market is: what demographic, what values, what you want to do, where do you want to take the relationship. If she's once again in her early 20s and especially secular, no way she's going to settle down anyway. She's playing the field amidst a shower of attention and, as we see here, competing men. She has an abundance mindset where options flow around every second, you as guys have a scarcity mindset where it's like a jar in the desert and you jump on it as you're so thirsty.

Third, never be ''friends'' with a woman. Be her acquiantance that's fine, but a man being in the ''friendzone'' with a woman and spending his time, energy, resources and money is the same as a woman being only called in for sex with a man, then to be discarded for the day. So don't be the guy going on endless coffee meetings where you become another girlfriend of her, and you pay for it financially and with your team. No woman will respect you for it. It will be bad for your status, as they know you're classified as ''that guy'' and the NO1 thing women are looking for is how other men and other women respond to you. If other women put you in the friendzone and you accept that and be a little puppy dog about it, they will scan you out very quickly as an attractive guy. Now, you can be cool of course when you meet each other in certain contexts.

And lastly, school yourself in feminine nature. In modern days we've just got to understand what the underlying dynamics are, we're just not living in past times where things were centralized and rules were put upon the ''marketplace'' men and women meet each other in. Check out the work of Rollo Tomassi, he has a youtube channel. The rational male is mandatory meaning for anyone willing to understand male-female dynamics at a base level. Then use these insights to become more attractive to the type of women you're looking for, for example by communicating better who you are, what you're about, what your vision on life is, where you want to go etc. These things can be learned to some extent for sure, but ensure that you don't become an entertaining dancing monkey, that's a really dark path to go on as many of us here know. But of course to communicate these things, the question is do you know the answers to these life questions yourself. What do you have to offer, or what are you going to offer in the future and what do you expect from a woman anyways? Dig deep on this so you can qualify a woman and weed out the 95% of options that isn't suitable with your life goals, morals and values, in order to avoid getting wrapped up about 1 girl choosing another guy over you (for whatever 1000s of reasons that may be the case, with the 1000s of options she has in the current climate of social media and dating apps).

Conclusion: check yourself and your friend in how to deal with these situations, and don't compete with your buddy over a girl, never.
 
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Lawrence87

Kingfisher
Orthodox
I'd always be inclined to walk away from situations involving friends and a girl. It may have just been haphazard and she didn't know what she was doing exactly, but also some women get a kick out of causing all kinds of havoc among friends/groups of friends. Those kinds of women are not worth getting involved with and no woman is worth ruining friendships over. I wouldn't devote much attention to her whatsoever, the chances are she is getting a kick out of two buddies competing over her, and thus is probably trouble. You could do better.
 

Luey365

 
Banned
Protestant
Since it's a competition for the girl, and your friend is actively competing with you, tell the girl "I just don't want to step on my friend's toes because I know he REALLY likes you, and he often struggles getting dates so I wouldn't want to steal you away from him and have him get hurt...

...but if things don't work out shoot me a text and we can get together!"
 
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