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<blockquote data-quote="Aboulia" data-source="post: 1516055" data-attributes="member: 16697"><p><a href="https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+9%3A8&version=NKJV" target="_blank">Proverbs 9:8</a>, but given the modern culture and the aforementioned liberal background I understand where you're coming from. The Church Fathers are not to be approached the same way scripture is approached in Protestantism. The whole person with all his writings have to be taken together. St John says in a homily (sermon):</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There is nothing wrong with what you said initially, provided your vision is perfect, and you're not missing anything, nor is [USER=20837]@TexasJenn[/USER] wrong when she says</p><p></p><p></p><p>If (St) Theodora did exactly what you prescribe and not point out blind spots, then (St) Justinian would have been ousted. A well-ordered man properly understands who he is, he understands his weak and strong points, but if a husband is not aware of one of his weaknesses, who better than his wife to shine light on it (in private of course) </p><p></p><p>The husband, being the masculine figure in marriage, is to be in the overt leadership role, he's the one <em>overtly</em> making the decisions, and being the border guard of the family to fight off subversive elements that try to destroy it, whether that's by working to provide, or to set the bounds of what is/is not permissible in the household.</p><p></p><p>The wife, as the feminine figure, gives of herself to bring forth children, which she cares for and nurtures, is subtle in her ways, overtness is not a feminine quality (It's also why yoga pants are gross). This article <a href="https://orthodoxartsjournal.org/sacred-art-and-the-power-of-women/" target="_blank">"Sacred Space, Sacred Art and the Power of Women"</a> describes aspects of the feminine far better than I ever could. I think this feminine element is something that Protestants miss, since the sole emphasis is on Christ.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sarah herself bade the patriarch take Hagar. She herself directed it, no one compelled her, nor did the husband attempt it; no, although he had dragged on so long a period childless, yet he chose never to become a father, rather than to grieve his wife. And yet even after all this, what said Sarah?<a href="https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2016:4-6&version=NKJV" target="_blank"> The Lord judge between me and you.</a> Now, I say, had he been any one else would he not have been moved to <a href="https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01489a.htm" target="_blank">anger</a>? Would he not also have stretched forth his hand, saying as it were, What do you mean? I had no desire to have anything to do with the <a href="https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15687b.htm" target="_blank">woman</a>; it was all your own doing; and do you turn again and accuse me?— But no, he says nothing of the sort — but what?<a href="https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+16%3A6&version=NKJV" target="_blank"> Behold, your maid is in your hand; do to her that which is good in your eyes.</a> He delivered up the partner of his bed, that he might not grieve Sarah. And yet surely is there nothing greater than this for producing affection. (St John Chrysostom, <a href="https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/230120.htm" target="_blank">Homily 20 on Ephesians</a>)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aboulia, post: 1516055, member: 16697"] [URL='https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+9%3A8&version=NKJV']Proverbs 9:8[/URL], but given the modern culture and the aforementioned liberal background I understand where you're coming from. The Church Fathers are not to be approached the same way scripture is approached in Protestantism. The whole person with all his writings have to be taken together. St John says in a homily (sermon): There is nothing wrong with what you said initially, provided your vision is perfect, and you're not missing anything, nor is [USER=20837]@TexasJenn[/USER] wrong when she says If (St) Theodora did exactly what you prescribe and not point out blind spots, then (St) Justinian would have been ousted. A well-ordered man properly understands who he is, he understands his weak and strong points, but if a husband is not aware of one of his weaknesses, who better than his wife to shine light on it (in private of course) The husband, being the masculine figure in marriage, is to be in the overt leadership role, he's the one [I]overtly[/I] making the decisions, and being the border guard of the family to fight off subversive elements that try to destroy it, whether that's by working to provide, or to set the bounds of what is/is not permissible in the household. The wife, as the feminine figure, gives of herself to bring forth children, which she cares for and nurtures, is subtle in her ways, overtness is not a feminine quality (It's also why yoga pants are gross). This article [URL='https://orthodoxartsjournal.org/sacred-art-and-the-power-of-women/']"Sacred Space, Sacred Art and the Power of Women"[/URL] describes aspects of the feminine far better than I ever could. I think this feminine element is something that Protestants miss, since the sole emphasis is on Christ. Sarah herself bade the patriarch take Hagar. She herself directed it, no one compelled her, nor did the husband attempt it; no, although he had dragged on so long a period childless, yet he chose never to become a father, rather than to grieve his wife. And yet even after all this, what said Sarah?[URL='https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2016:4-6&version=NKJV'] The Lord judge between me and you.[/URL] Now, I say, had he been any one else would he not have been moved to [URL='https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01489a.htm']anger[/URL]? Would he not also have stretched forth his hand, saying as it were, What do you mean? I had no desire to have anything to do with the [URL='https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15687b.htm']woman[/URL]; it was all your own doing; and do you turn again and accuse me?— But no, he says nothing of the sort — but what?[URL='https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+16%3A6&version=NKJV'] Behold, your maid is in your hand; do to her that which is good in your eyes.[/URL] He delivered up the partner of his bed, that he might not grieve Sarah. And yet surely is there nothing greater than this for producing affection. (St John Chrysostom, [URL='https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/230120.htm']Homily 20 on Ephesians[/URL]) [/QUOTE]
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