How to make women accountable for the costs of courtship in the case of betrayal?

[Max Roscoe]

I am sure that is true. However, it strikes as fundamentally unjust that a woman can claim for every pair of trousers she has washed for a man but a man can not claim for a 7000 USD luxury holiday, an expensive gift he made, money paid in otherwise in the expectation that the woman would be faithful to him. However if she then leaves, unilaterally breaks the contract, should she not be financially accountable as well?

That seems only equitable and would in theory further underline a woman's need to be faithful in a world where 50% of marriages end in divorces, the vast majority initiated by women.

The error is in spending thousands of dollars on a woman who is not your wife or mother.

If you are expecting women to believe in a quid pro quo reciprocity for material things a man is offering her, you are expecting something that is unnatural and only makes sense from a male, logical brain, and not a feminine, emotional one. In other words, you could force her to pay you money back, but that will not make sense to her and she will not alter her behavior.

Outside of vacations, which were always places I wanted to go anyway, and only cost marginally more to bring a girlfriend along, I have never spent more than a few hundred dollars on women I have dated. I have a friend who just bought a $100+ dress for a girl on their 3rd date. If you want to go that route, don't expect to ever see that money again, and be aware you may be sending bad signals to the woman, encouraging gold diggers, and being seen as a simp.

Plus if she was getting $7,000 vacations as a girlfriend, what is she going to expect as your wife?

 

[Elipe]

How to make women accountable for the costs of courtship in the case of betrayal?

There is no legal recourse.

 

[get2choppaaa]

Obviously one has to be very careful with any woman you choose to be with. However, you do not really know a person, ever really. Plus women are exceptionally skillful at appearing one way and hiding their true intentions.

So my point applies to all women really. I don't have a specific fear or insecurity, rather for all women the fact would apply that none, not a single one, will repay you the money you paid in your courtship with her, if you separate due to her. Like you said, right now, that is just considered the price of how society works. Nevertheless, since this amount of money can run into thousands of Dollars for a man I think it would indeed be wise to be very careful.

One way, perhaps to safeguard yourself would be to put in place a contract, which stipulates that if she leaves the relationship all money you paid is to be repaid as a loan.

I don't see why, in the case of marriage, men should pay for any service ever rendered by a wife, whereas in courtship, none of the services or monies paid are to be repaid, if the woman unilaterally changes the term of the relationship. It just strikes me as non-equitable.

Anyone you allow yourself to be vulnerable to can screw you over. Including your family, spouse, freinds ect. You have to learn how and who to trust.

Good luck finding someone who would sign some sort of arrangement.

Not sure how old you are or your life experience but it's been my experience that women tend to not appreciate it when you start implying that they might be infidelities'/dishonest ect.

Flip the script for a second and if a woman did some equivalent, what would you do? You'd be like "Go pound sand psycho"

Like I have said, from experience, you are better off finding a woman who shares your religious convictions and bond whatever those are.

When my ex wife and I were dating I was young and altruistic and stupid. I spoiled her. She left and stole all the paid off stuff from my house while she was pregnant within 90 days of getting back from a deployment overseas. I learned that if a woman doesn't show immense gratitude for the little things you do, they aren't going to show any gratitude for the MAJOR things you do like provide for them/shelter/protection ect...

When I met my now wife, I didn't have any concerns about being taken advantage of because I actually learned how to communicate and boundaries. Hypothetically she could leave at any time... there is NOTHING you can do if they decide that is the course. Now I know she will never do this because 1. she would have incredible shame since we found the Church together and she wouldn't be able to look at our priest/church friends again in any serious way without feeling utter shame. 2: raising all the kids who need a male influence would be impossible for her : she cant provide the financial support I can and she knows that 4. I understand what she needs take the role of the husband guiding his family and she understands the role of a woman in the house.

When a woman loves you, she really loves you. Once she has lost that feeling of love, she will never respect you again. That's a woman's biological nature.


There is no way to ever create a legal circumstance that will counter that effectively.

 

[magaman]

Except for California and a few other commie states... Men really only pay for child support and you split the assets down the middle and collaborative debt is split. Even a Pre-nup doesnt mean nothing will be lost when the assets are divided. As a Judge views a divorce/break up as purely a business transaction unless children are involved... in which case you have to really have a crackhead mom for her to not have custody.

In my case, when my exwife left (and kidnnapped the kids for 3 months until I got a judge to straighten that out) she took everything that was paid off (even tried to take my brand new suburban, which I got back once she could't register it in her name since I had the title... hehe)

To this day she makes half of what I make and wanted more to be a nurse than a mother, and threw away a debt free - EZ life because of being "unhappy".

In our case, we both were in lust. I didnt respect her because she was/is an air head, she didnt love me because I wasnt a door mat and had rules, and am pretty type A high strung and a little rough.

In short. There is no way to hold a woman accountable for their actions the same way a man gets screwed. But that is the way of the world and something one must accept in negotiation of the dating/courtship/marriage life.

Speaking from a VERY VERY long and painful experience on the way not to do it... my advise is always "Chose better and make sure you find a woman who's pursuing the same faith (hopefully in Jesus Christ) as you are as the most likely way to have a successful and joyous relationship. "

There is no real societal pressure to make women accountable the same way men are. Thats just the reality of political expediency in their victimhood status allowing big goverment to regulate/tax/and accrue leverage on society

What's scary is that my girlfriend is also a nurse and she does the travel nurse thing so she's out of town a lot. She makes so much money that most people would cry if they made that much money. I've also got to admit that I compare myself a lot to her and I know that's not good to do.. I even told her how I felt about it and she said she knows the type of guy I am, a guy that wants to be a breadwinner type and eventually have children and she thinks I'm a good person for it. Although at the same time I'm pretty sure she knows that she and her lifestyle isn't totally suitable for that. So I think we are both in a way weary of the future. She has asked me to marry her multiple times but I told her I don't want to get married and that I don't really have any intention of getting married at all, at the very least in the USA. I don't think she's totally happy about it and thinks maybe I'm not the one but for now everything still seems to be going alright. Mind you she's not an American citizen, just a permanent resident from The Philippines.

As far as trying to get her to see my perspective, it's almost impossible. She's nice but not very much capable of critical thinking or seeing beyond mainstream narratives. Trying to explain something complex has varying results but usually doesn't get very far with her. She doesn't seem to question a lot of things either and believes that I should be compliant to all Corona laws but seeing as she is from Asia, they tend not to question authority where as I definitely don't feel the same way. Especially since the lawmakers and the elites don't follow their own laws.

 

[MorganAlpha]

The error is in spending thousands of dollars on a woman who is not your wife or mother.

If you are expecting women to believe in a quid pro quo reciprocity for material things a man is offering her, you are expecting something that is unnatural and only makes sense from a male, logical brain, and not a feminine, emotional one. In other words, you could force her to pay you money back, but that will not make sense to her and she will not alter her behavior.

Outside of vacations, which were always places I wanted to go anyway, and only cost marginally more to bring a girlfriend along, I have never spent more than a few hundred dollars on women I have dated. I have a friend who just bought a $100+ dress for a girl on their 3rd date. If you want to go that route, don't expect to ever see that money again, and be aware you may be sending bad signals to the woman, encouraging gold diggers, and being seen as a simp.

Plus if she was getting $7,000 vacations as a girlfriend, what is she going to expect as your wife?

Undoubtedly your policy of only spending a few hundred dollars is by far the best approach. However, it may well be that there are exceptional circumstances, let's say her sister has an accident and needs an operation, which costs 3000 USD, you have the money, and she asks you to help. You do, and further down the line she decides to end the relationship for whatever reason.

Now, clearly you are out of pocket. I am not concerned with her changing her behaviour, you're of course right, she will never do so. However, should you not be entitled to have that money repaid if she was the one who unilaterally then changed the terms of the relationship? You were there for her, but she abandons you. You paid out money based on her false promise to be faithful.

If a money gets paid for her services of domestic duties, such expenses should be re-paid to men, I think.

 

[MorganAlpha]

There is no legal recourse.

What if you get her to sign an agreement that stipulates that if she ends the relationship all money you paid her is deemed a loan and to be repaid? Would she then not be contractually obliged to repay you the money?

 

[MorganAlpha]

Anyone you allow yourself to be vulnerable to can screw you over. Including your family, spouse, freinds ect. You have to learn how and who to trust.

Good luck finding someone who would sign some sort of arrangement.

Not sure how old you are or your life experience but it's been my experience that women tend to not appreciate it when you start implying that they might be infidelities'/dishonest ect.

Flip the script for a second and if a woman did some equivalent, what would you do? You'd be like "Go pound sand psycho"

Like I have said, from experience, you are better off finding a woman who shares your religious convictions and bond whatever those are.

When my ex wife and I were dating I was young and altruistic and stupid. I spoiled her. She left and stole all the paid off stuff from my house while she was pregnant within 90 days of getting back from a deployment overseas. I learned that if a woman doesn't show immense gratitude for the little things you do, they aren't going to show any gratitude for the MAJOR things you do like provide for them/shelter/protection ect...

When I met my now wife, I didn't have any concerns about being taken advantage of because I actually learned how to communicate and boundaries. Hypothetically she could leave at any time... there is NOTHING you can do if they decide that is the course. Now I know she will never do this because 1. she would have incredible shame since we found the Church together and she wouldn't be able to look at our priest/church friends again in any serious way without feeling utter shame. 2: raising all the kids who need a male influence would be impossible for her : she cant provide the financial support I can and she knows that 4. I understand what she needs take the role of the husband guiding his family and she understands the role of a woman in the house.

When a woman loves you, she really loves you. Once she has lost that feeling of love, she will never respect you again. That's a woman's biological nature.


There is no way to ever create a legal circumstance that will counter that effectively.

If it's your reality, your frame, that you will only pay out money if she signs the contract, and if she wants to be with you, then she would probably sign. After all she doesn't lose anything, she just has to repay what she is given.

Obviously when you have children and are married, then that changes things. I am just concerned with the money that men spend leading up to marriage, in the various courtships with various candidates. I am not concerned with curtailing her right to leave, like you said, if she wants to leave she will leave. It's not about that. It's more about men being reimbursed for what they spent, if the woman is the one to unilaterally end the relationship.

I would not presume that contract would counter a woman's loss of love, however, if you have a contract where she is obliged to repay the money you spent, and it is enforceable in court, would that not be preferable from the man's point of view, to be reimbursed the money he paid? After all a woman gets paid for all services she provided in marriage.

 

[get2choppaaa]

What's scary is that my girlfriend is also a nurse and she does the travel nurse thing so she's out of town a lot. She makes so much money that most people would cry if they made that much money. I've also got to admit that I compare myself a lot to her and I know that's not good to do.. I even told her how I felt about it and she said she knows the type of guy I am, a guy that wants to be a breadwinner type and eventually have children and she thinks I'm a good person for it. Although at the same time I'm pretty sure she knows that she and her lifestyle isn't totally suitable for that. So I think we are both in a way weary of the future. She has asked me to marry her multiple times but I told her I don't want to get married and that I don't really have any intention of getting married at all, at the very least in the USA. I don't think she's totally happy about it and thinks maybe I'm not the one but for now everything still seems to be going alright. Mind you she's not an American citizen, just a permanent resident from The Philippines.

As far as trying to get her to see my perspective, it's almost impossible. She's nice but not very much capable of critical thinking or seeing beyond mainstream narratives. Trying to explain something complex has varying results but usually doesn't get very far with her. She doesn't seem to question a lot of things either and believes that I should be compliant to all Corona laws but seeing as she is from Asia, they tend not to question authority where as I definitely don't feel the same way. Especially since the lawmakers and the elites don't follow their own laws.

My opinon, and not relationship advise just my observation from a cursory read of your 2 above paragraphs....

In relationships its either a "heck yes" or a "heck no" when it comes down to your future with that person. If you are uninterested in marrying her someday then she aint the one for you.

If you are going to be unhappy with the money scene the YOU need to find a way to make more, let it go, or find a woman that doesn't make more money than you so that this issue isnt a thing. Most relationship issues are around Money and Children.. but mostly money

What if you get her to sign an agreement that stipulates that if she ends the relationship all money you paid her is deemed a loan and to be repaid? Would she then not be contractually obliged to repay you the money?

Are you gonna draw up a business contract, bring in a notary, seal it with a blood oath and file it with the courthouse? MAybe you can take her to the "People's Court" and see how that goes.

I use the above sarcasm because dude, what is the point of interacting with someone like that? If you are using your example of medical care, why are YOU doing that? If you are loaning her the money, for a specific reason and feel the need to draw that up, then I would get a bank involved otherwise I would just not participate in those sorts of things, or expect that YOU will be on the hook for it,

If it's your reality, your frame, that you will only pay out money if she signs the contract, and if she wants to be with you, then she would probably sign. After all she doesn't lose anything, she just has to repay what she is given.

Obviously when you have children and are married, then that changes things. I am just concerned with the money that men spend leading up to marriage, in the various courtships with various candidates. I am not concerned with curtailing her right to leave, like you said, if she wants to leave she will leave. It's not about that. It's more about men being reimbursed for what they spent, if the woman is the one to unilaterally end the relationship.

I would not presume that contract would counter a woman's loss of love, however, if you have a contract where she is obliged to repay the money you spent, and it is enforceable in court, would that not be preferable from the man's point of view, to be reimbursed the money he paid? After all a woman gets paid for all services she provided in marriage.

Bro, you are never going to get reimbursed for money spent in courtship. That's how it works. You're the man, you pay for things. You're expected to pay for things.

Dont go spending money on stupid stuff and gifts until you're really serious. Thats just part of it man.

 

[Elipe]

What if you get her to sign an agreement that stipulates that if she ends the relationship all money you paid her is deemed a loan and to be repaid? Would she then not be contractually obliged to repay you the money?

When I say there is no legal recourse, I mean a judge will also throw that out because you're using your evil white soopermacist man powers to enslave the woman. There is no legal recourse.

No legal recourse doesn't mean no recourse, but that is not in the scope of this thread.

 

[get2choppaaa]

When I say there is no legal recourse, I mean a judge will also throw that out because you're using your evil white soopermacist man powers to enslave the woman. There is no legal recourse.

No legal recourse doesn't mean no recourse, but that is not in the scope of this thread.

Better recourse is moving on and using your own success and happiness.

If you don't have kids with a woman, and she screws you over, you're not really screwed over... just inconvenienced.

If you have kids' and she screws you over... then you're in a world of hurt.

 

[MorganAlpha]

My opinon, and not relationship advise just my observation from a cursory read of your 2 above paragraphs....

In relationships its either a "heck yes" or a "heck no" when it comes down to your future with that person. If you are uninterested in marrying her someday then she aint the one for you.

If you are going to be unhappy with the money scene the YOU need to find a way to make more, let it go, or find a woman that doesn't make more money than you so that this issue isnt a thing. Most relationship issues are around Money and Children.. but mostly money

Are you gonna draw up a business contract, bring in a notary, seal it with a blood oath and file it with the courthouse? MAybe you can take her to the "People's Court" and see how that goes.

I use the above sarcasm because dude, what is the point of interacting with someone like that? If you are using your example of medical care, why are YOU doing that? If you are loaning her the money, for a specific reason and feel the need to draw that up, then I would get a bank involved otherwise I would just not participate in those sorts of things, or expect that YOU will be on the hook for it,



Bro, you are never going to get reimbursed for money spent in courtship. That's how it works. You're the man, you pay for things. You're expected to pay for things.

Dont go spending money on stupid stuff and gifts until you're really serious. Thats just part of it man.

Well now in college kids have to get her to sign a contract to ensure her consent even when they kiss or have sex.

You could easily draw up a contract that any money you pay is a loan and to be repaid in the event she ends the relationship. A notary is not required, nor a seal or blood oath. Just a signature.

I think that would apply in all cases, with all women. Merely as a precaution.

You're probably right, but it's just completely unequitable that women get paid for any service rendered in marriage, but men are not repaid any money they pay during courtship.

 

[MorganAlpha]

When I say there is no legal recourse, I mean a judge will also throw that out because you're using your evil white soopermacist man powers to enslave the woman. There is no legal recourse.

No legal recourse doesn't mean no recourse, but that is not in the scope of this thread.

It could be her lawyer could claim "duress" or that the judge finds it is counter to public policy or some such.

It's worth a shot though, just for the leverage alone.

 

[Papaya]

No appetizers?

 

[get2choppaaa]

You're probably right, but it's just completely unequitable that women get paid for any service rendered in marriage, but men are not repaid any money they pay during courtship.

That maybe true, but recognizing it and acting accordingly is going to get you a lot further than trying to scheme about how to get an unenforceable contract arbitrarily created because of your fear of losing money/goods

This is to me an overall immature approach, and I say that having been put through the ringer on the divorce court side of things... so I have much experience and first hand knowledge.

Best advise I can give is:

Chose wisely and accept the nature of the men and women's roles in relationships and dont turn a whore into a housewife and dont use gifts and goods and paying for things as a transactional assessment of what you're supposed to get from someone. If you want to buy your significant other a gift do so because you want to give. If you want to help them with some financial situation do so. If you want to make it agreed upon that they repay you, fine... but dont expect these sorts of things to be received well or that "equity" of money has anything to do with it.

 

[STG]

With the collapse of traditional society and morals its not possible.

I know of a woman who cheated on her husband with as many as 20 different men. Each man knew of the other ones and knew what she was all about. Some of them wanted a relationship with her.

In Old America a woman like this would have been ostracized for acting this way by the community. Her behavior has damaged the community, the lives of the community member's, and her child.

Yet there are no repercussions for her behavior there are already more men ready for when shes ready to step out again.

 

[Solitarius]

With the collapse of traditional society and morals its not possible.

I know of a woman who cheated on her husband with as many as 20 different men. Each man knew of the other ones and knew what she was all about. Some of them wanted a relationship with her.

In Old America a woman like this would have been ostracized for acting this way by the community. Her behavior has damaged the community, the lives of the community member's, and her child.

Yet there are no repercussions for her behavior there are already more men ready for when shes ready to step out again.

In Austria in the Middle Ages such a whore would have been taken to a grave which was also her place of execution & there a stake would be driven through her & the whoremonger who had sinned with her. Of course in this particular case that'd be rather problematic; how would the authorities obtain a stake of sufficient length ha ha. That is the only sort of thing that will stop these self-made subanimals. I pray every day that the Almighty would pour out His wrath on this rotting cesspit of a world.

 

[Aizen]

In Austria in the Middle Ages such a whore would have been taken to a grave which was also her place of execution & there a stake would be driven through her & the whoremonger who had sinned with her. Of course in this particular case that'd be rather problematic; how would the authorities obtain a stake of sufficient length ha ha. That is the only sort of thing that will stop these self-made subanimals. I pray every day that the Almighty would pour out His wrath on this rotting cesspit of a world.

Based

 

[Elipe]

I pray every day that the Almighty would pour out His wrath on this rotting cesspit of a world.

He is going to do that. But your prayers should be that He will show mercy. What He is going to do will make you tremble at the thought of what He would have done instead if He wasn't showing mercy.

 

[STG]

In Austria in the Middle Ages such a whore would have been taken to a grave which was also her place of execution & there a stake would be driven through her & the whoremonger who had sinned with her. Of course in this particular case that'd be rather problematic; how would the authorities obtain a stake of sufficient length ha ha. That is the only sort of thing that will stop these self-made subanimals. I pray every day that the Almighty would pour out His wrath on this rotting cesspit of a world.

The worst part of it is that men are so thirsty that they won't even say what she is doing is wrong. They stay quiet and hope for their turn. Its disgusting. Her husband took her back but its only a matter of time before it starts up again.

Insane to get married under such a system. There is no penalty to the woman for breaking the marriage contract.

 

[MovingForward2050]

What's scary is that my girlfriend is also a nurse and she does the travel nurse thing so she's out of town a lot. She makes so much money that most people would cry if they made that much money. I've also got to admit that I compare myself a lot to her and I know that's not good to do.. I even told her how I felt about it and she said she knows the type of guy I am, a guy that wants to be a breadwinner type and eventually have children and she thinks I'm a good person for it. Although at the same time I'm pretty sure she knows that she and her lifestyle isn't totally suitable for that. So I think we are both in a way weary of the future. She has asked me to marry her multiple times but I told her I don't want to get married and that I don't really have any intention of getting married at all, at the very least in the USA. I don't think she's totally happy about it and thinks maybe I'm not the one but for now everything still seems to be going alright. Mind you she's not an American citizen, just a permanent resident from The Philippines.

As far as trying to get her to see my perspective, it's almost impossible. She's nice but not very much capable of critical thinking or seeing beyond mainstream narratives. Trying to explain something complex has varying results but usually doesn't get very far with her. She doesn't seem to question a lot of things either and believes that I should be compliant to all Corona laws but seeing as she is from Asia, they tend not to question authority where as I definitely don't feel the same way. Especially since the lawmakers and the elites don't follow their own laws.

I'm an American expat in the Philippines, and so what you say rings true to my own experience of how Filipinas don't question, but rather support authority figures, ranging from their father to the president of the country and beyond. My Filipina partner got upset with me recently because I was writing a post to a forum about how a war may happen between the U.S. and China, due to China's hostile behavior and desire to conquer Taiwan. She feels we must all try to get along with China, and that my writings can only add to the negativity and possibility of war. I find this hilarious considering the massive Chinese fishing fleet that had parked itself in her nation's territorial waters, and that was vacuuming up their food resources. It took two newly purchased frigates from South Korea, and two American aircraft carriers backing them up, to get the ships from China to leave.