How to stop worrying about money as a young professional?

RWIsrael

Woodpecker
GT777733 said:
Overall, worrying has it pros and cons. Worrying and taking action can produce huge results. But, on the flip side, worrying about things out of your control constantly will lead to all the happiness draining out of your life and you'll also push people away as you'll put out a negative vibe.

Quoted for Truth!

As an example - it definitely sucks when your buddies want to go to concerts and pubs every weekend and you're the Debbie Downer trying to save money or having to work night shifts.

Same with wife / girlfriend wanting to do fun things or go on expensive holidays.
I've definitely been struggling with that and a lot of it is due to mental stress about my job, expenses and savings rather than the activity itself.
If you don't manage that it can kill your enjoyment of life and push others away.
 

Kelent

Robin
Thomas Jackson said:
Yea what is the upside of a political science masters degree? Seems like a waste of money. If setting yourself up financially is the goal this plan needs to be re-thought.

Well, considering I'm in the Beltway there's a lot of opportunity. You can make a lot of money with consulting, politics, languages, it just depends on how you use your skillset. Like with anything, really. I have knowledge of a few programming languages to fall back on. The goal isn't really to retire by 35, its to live a full life.
 

BBinger

Kingfisher
Kelent said:
Let me start off by saying I am aware everyone at some point in our lives struggles with money, this is not about going broke so much as it is thinking I'll always be liquid poor. Even then, my definition of "liquid poor" might be skewed, since apparently most Americans can't cover a $500 emergency.


I keep hearing day after day that the US economy is at a standstill despite growing short-term markets, that similar to China we're in a different kind of bubble where the old will not retire and the transferable wealth that might have been obtained through an earlier end to life will go away due to end of life care and people getting older. It pretty much looks like doom and gloom, from where I'm standing.


As a person about to graduate college, although my family supports my undergrad studies (which I am eternally grateful for), I have this nagging feeling that no amount of money will ever be enough to make my life stable in this country. Maybe it's because I haven't graduated yet and have never drawn a salaried job, all my work has been hourly, but my thought process is right now I have to save up all my money (realistically I'm looking at 80% saved per paycheck) for rent when I graduate, or for seed money to spend when abroad.

Honestly this seems like a healthy source of anxiety, but you need to take action to address it. Saving most of your income is good. What would be great is if you could grow your income while maintaining that savings rate.

There are three ways to spend money:

  1. Necessary expenditures, the stuff that keeps you alive and sheltered
  2. Discretionary expenditures, the stuff that's fun.
  3. Productive expenditures, this is the spending that brings in more money.

If you don't have much money, it is easy for the first two categories to dominate your budget. It can also be hard to find opportunities to make productive expenditures. Not having money sucks so you need to position yourself to make more money. That 80% savings rate is valuable as habit to keep, even your pile of money isn't growing very fast. If, in the absence of opportunities to make productive expenses you keep it going forever you are getting rich. This is the actual get rich formula.

Now the problem with the Peace corps and their stipend is that the stipend is based around living like the locals. This means a Peace Corps stint will kill the high savings rate habit and whatever relocation compensation the offer at the end isn't worth it.

Spending a few thousand to do a language immersion course in Latin America is a much less expensive way to learn a language than spending two YEARS with the Peace Corps.

Well, considering I'm in the Beltway there's a lot of opportunity. You can make a lot of money with consulting, politics, languages, it just depends on how you use your skillset. Like with anything, really. I have knowledge of a few programming languages to fall back on. The goal isn't really to retire by 35, its to live a full life.

There's a lot of traps in the beltway that look like opportunity. It would take some incredible gig to keep up your savings rate given the costs of living in the beltway. If you don't get one of those however, there's little reason to stay in the beltway.

Coming out of college you want to aggressively pursue maximum net income (your pay - what you spend, keep that high savings rate). This may mean staying with the family for a couple years working in IT.

As your income and your wealthy grow you ability to engage in discretionary spending without diminishing your wealth grows.

And yes, most people in the US are poor in liquid, absolute, and relative terms.
 

Kelent

Robin
BBinger said:
Kelent said:
Let me start off by saying I am aware everyone at some point in our lives struggles with money, this is not about going broke so much as it is thinking I'll always be liquid poor. Even then, my definition of "liquid poor" might be skewed, since apparently most Americans can't cover a $500 emergency.


I keep hearing day after day that the US economy is at a standstill despite growing short-term markets, that similar to China we're in a different kind of bubble where the old will not retire and the transferable wealth that might have been obtained through an earlier end to life will go away due to end of life care and people getting older. It pretty much looks like doom and gloom, from where I'm standing.


As a person about to graduate college, although my family supports my undergrad studies (which I am eternally grateful for), I have this nagging feeling that no amount of money will ever be enough to make my life stable in this country. Maybe it's because I haven't graduated yet and have never drawn a salaried job, all my work has been hourly, but my thought process is right now I have to save up all my money (realistically I'm looking at 80% saved per paycheck) for rent when I graduate, or for seed money to spend when abroad.

Honestly this seems like a healthy source of anxiety, but you need to take action to address it. Saving most of your income is good. What would be great is if you could grow your income while maintaining that savings rate.

There are three ways to spend money:

  1. Necessary expenditures, the stuff that keeps you alive and sheltered
  2. Discretionary expenditures, the stuff that's fun.
  3. Productive expenditures, this is the spending that brings in more money.

If you don't have much money, it is easy for the first two categories to dominate your budget. It can also be hard to find opportunities to make productive expenditures. Not having money sucks so you need to position yourself to make more money. That 80% savings rate is valuable as habit to keep, even your pile of money isn't growing very fast. If, in the absence of opportunities to make productive expenses you keep it going forever you are getting rich. This is the actual get rich formula.

Now the problem with the Peace corps and their stipend is that the stipend is based around living like the locals. This means a Peace Corps stint will kill the high savings rate habit and whatever relocation compensation the offer at the end isn't worth it.

Spending a few thousand to do a language immersion course in Latin America is a much less expensive way to learn a language than spending two YEARS with the Peace Corps.

Well, considering I'm in the Beltway there's a lot of opportunity. You can make a lot of money with consulting, politics, languages, it just depends on how you use your skillset. Like with anything, really. I have knowledge of a few programming languages to fall back on. The goal isn't really to retire by 35, its to live a full life.

There's a lot of traps in the beltway that look like opportunity. It would take some incredible gig to keep up your savings rate given the costs of living in the beltway. If you don't get one of those however, there's little reason to stay in the beltway.

Coming out of college you want to aggressively pursue maximum net income (your pay - what you spend, keep that high savings rate). This may mean staying with the family for a couple years working in IT.

As your income and your wealthy grow you ability to engage in discretionary spending without diminishing your wealth grows.

And yes, most people in the US are poor in liquid, absolute, and relative terms.


Peace Corps might not be the best of options, but it's certainly not the worst. Staying home is much more detrimental than going abroad and getting paid (even if its only a stipend, and only amounts to 4k every year) due to the lack of opportunity where my parents moved to. I'm virtually cut off from any real work due to an inability to drive. The closest major road is something like 10 miles away, and its a large highway. Staying with the family would mean staying in abject poverty without the ability to learn anything new or get out of the house. For the last few weeks I've basically just been going to work and coming home, because there's very little to do.

In terms of time, I'll agree that spending time in Latin America in a language intensive is much less expensive (time-wise) than 2 years in the Corps. In terms of money? I'm unconvinced. Plus, I don't want to learn Spanish. Maybe you do, that's great; I don't. I also wouldn't want to learn Chinese in LatAm through Spanish speaking instructors. If I have 4k in the bank out of college and student debt, why would I want to add more debt on top of it to spend less than a year in LatAm when I can spend two years (effectively) rent and food-cost free while waiting for bonds to mature, learning a language, and come back 8k richer? Are there other options to go abroad that would be much easier and likely yield more money (such as teaching English in Korea)? I imagine there are, yeah, and I'm still considering things.

I guess I should've put in the original post that the goal for me isn't to retire by 35, but to lead a full life. I'm not expecting to get massive amounts of wealth. If that is your goal, and it seems to be the goal of the vast majority here, I wish you all nothing but the best in it. While money is great, and a lot of money is better, it isn't the be all end all to life, as I maybe falsely assume you're making it out to be.

You mentioned some things in the Beltway being more traps than opportunity. Please, enlighten me with some examples.
 

BBinger

Kingfisher
Kelent said:
Peace Corps might not be the best of options, but it's certainly not the worst. Staying home is much more detrimental than going abroad and getting paid (even if its only a stipend, and only amounts to 4k every year) due to the lack of opportunity where my parents moved to. I'm virtually cut off from any real work due to an inability to drive. The closest major road is something like 10 miles away, and its a large highway. Staying with the family would mean staying in abject poverty without the ability to learn anything new or get out of the house. For the last few weeks I've basically just been going to work and coming home, because there's very little to do.

In terms of time, I'll agree that spending time in Latin America in a language intensive is much less expensive (time-wise) than 2 years in the Corps. In terms of money? I'm unconvinced. Plus, I don't want to learn Spanish. Maybe you do, that's great; I don't. I also wouldn't want to learn Chinese in LatAm through Spanish speaking instructors. If I have 4k in the bank out of college and student debt, why would I want to add more debt on top of it to spend less than a year in LatAm when I can spend two years (effectively) rent and food-cost free while waiting for bonds to mature, learning a language, and come back 8k richer? Are there other options to go abroad that would be much easier and likely yield more money (such as teaching English in Korea)? I imagine there are, yeah, and I'm still considering things.

I guess I should've put in the original post that the goal for me isn't to retire by 35, but to lead a full life. I'm not expecting to get massive amounts of wealth. If that is your goal, and it seems to be the goal of the vast majority here, I wish you all nothing but the best in it. While money is great, and a lot of money is better, it isn't the be all end all to life, as I maybe falsely assume you're making it out to be.

You mentioned some things in the Beltway being more traps than opportunity. Please, enlighten me with some examples.

Money and wealth are their own sort of freedom. No, it isn't everything in life, but it is involved in everything. Having money is a great way to alleviate feelings of being poor related to being poor. If your posts are honest, you are richer than most Americans simply for having a positive, rather than negative net worth. Your net worth mentality is good.

As far as the Beltway being full of traps, there are a lot of jobs that pay very poorly in relation to the local cost of living. It's a similar situation to New York. There is no reason to pay New York costs of living unless you are a banker. There is no reason to pay beltway living costs unless you are a top lobbyist drawing seven figures. Many jobs in the Beltway with incomes enviable most other places simply won't justify the cost of being there.

Teaching English in Korea is probably a better option that the Peace Corps. I suspect the Peace Corps isn't deploying people to places that speak Mandarin or Cantonese. Mind that many people going abroad to teach English end up not learning the local language during their stint. Anyways, South Korea is a big economy and there's probably demand with the three letter agencies for US citizen speakers of Korea.

The problem with the Peace Corps is that you see an opportunity to go up 8k USD. That's a positive net-worth move. The two years however is a substantial opportunity cost that could have been spent doing just about anything else.

If you want to make money while working in Government and learn a language, most of the military services have some sort of enlisted "Linguist" specialty where you have to qualify for a serious clearance, pass some tests, and they send you to learn a language of their choosing. Or you could go the officer route, roll the dice, and on a long enough timeline you could get slotted in to learn a language at the same school. Plenty of people through history with interesting lives have done the military thing, and coming out of the service with a clearance is a way into later government gigs.

I understand the desire to get out of the US. I did it. It's an adventure and leaving the US upgraded my overall quality of life.

My big point is... not every anxiety is pathological thing that ought to be addressed by papering over it with a change in mindset. You describe an anxiety that seems to be well founded, and the way to alleviate it in a healthy way is to change the circumstances setting it off. We have world we have to live in, and this world only accommodates one system of arithmetic. You have the insight to know you are relatively rich though poor in absolute terms, and to have been living accordingly while you are young. Embrace it. Find yourself and all that, but don't let marketing and "authenticity" gurus misdirect you into doing it in "popular" or "respectable" ways if the numbers don't make sense.
 

Kelent

Robin
BBinger said:
Kelent said:
Peace Corps might not be the best of options, but it's certainly not the worst. Staying home is much more detrimental than going abroad and getting paid (even if its only a stipend, and only amounts to 4k every year) due to the lack of opportunity where my parents moved to. I'm virtually cut off from any real work due to an inability to drive. The closest major road is something like 10 miles away, and its a large highway. Staying with the family would mean staying in abject poverty without the ability to learn anything new or get out of the house. For the last few weeks I've basically just been going to work and coming home, because there's very little to do.

In terms of time, I'll agree that spending time in Latin America in a language intensive is much less expensive (time-wise) than 2 years in the Corps. In terms of money? I'm unconvinced. Plus, I don't want to learn Spanish. Maybe you do, that's great; I don't. I also wouldn't want to learn Chinese in LatAm through Spanish speaking instructors. If I have 4k in the bank out of college and student debt, why would I want to add more debt on top of it to spend less than a year in LatAm when I can spend two years (effectively) rent and food-cost free while waiting for bonds to mature, learning a language, and come back 8k richer? Are there other options to go abroad that would be much easier and likely yield more money (such as teaching English in Korea)? I imagine there are, yeah, and I'm still considering things.

I guess I should've put in the original post that the goal for me isn't to retire by 35, but to lead a full life. I'm not expecting to get massive amounts of wealth. If that is your goal, and it seems to be the goal of the vast majority here, I wish you all nothing but the best in it. While money is great, and a lot of money is better, it isn't the be all end all to life, as I maybe falsely assume you're making it out to be.

You mentioned some things in the Beltway being more traps than opportunity. Please, enlighten me with some examples.

Money and wealth are their own sort of freedom. No, it isn't everything in life, but it is involved in everything. Having money is a great way to alleviate feelings of being poor related to being poor. If your posts are honest, you are richer than most Americans simply for having a positive, rather than negative net worth. Your net worth mentality is good.

As far as the Beltway being full of traps, there are a lot of jobs that pay very poorly in relation to the local cost of living. It's a similar situation to New York. There is no reason to pay New York costs of living unless you are a banker. There is no reason to pay beltway living costs unless you are a top lobbyist drawing seven figures. Many jobs in the Beltway with incomes enviable most other places simply won't justify the cost of being there.

Teaching English in Korea is probably a better option that the Peace Corps. I suspect the Peace Corps isn't deploying people to places that speak Mandarin or Cantonese. Mind that many people going abroad to teach English end up not learning the local language during their stint. Anyways, South Korea is a big economy and there's probably demand with the three letter agencies for US citizen speakers of Korea.

The problem with the Peace Corps is that you see an opportunity to go up 8k USD. That's a positive net-worth move. The two years however is a substantial opportunity cost that could have been spent doing just about anything else.

If you want to make money while working in Government and learn a language, most of the military services have some sort of enlisted "Linguist" specialty where you have to qualify for a serious clearance, pass some tests, and they send you to learn a language of their choosing... Plenty of people through history with interesting lives have done the military thing, and coming out of the service with a clearance is a way into later government gigs.

I understand the desire to get out of the US. I did it. It's an adventure and leaving the US upgraded my overall quality of life.

My big point is... not every anxiety is pathological thing that ought to be addressed by papering over it with a change in mindset. You describe an anxiety that seems to be well founded, and the way to alleviate it in a healthy way is to change the circumstances setting it off. We have world we have to live in, and this world only accommodates one system of arithmetic. You have the insight to know you are relatively rich though poor in absolute terms, and to have been living accordingly while you are young. Embrace it. Find yourself and all that, but don't let marketing and "authenticity" gurus misdirect you into doing it in "popular" or "respectable" ways if the numbers don't make sense.


The Peace Corps actually does deploy to PRChina. They put you in a university setting and you get 3 months of language training, the local stipend, 8k at the end, whole bit. It's one of the only reasons right now that I'd want to join PC, outside of spreading a positive image of the US abroad. Korea would definitely mean a larger salary, as well as more savings/cash to spend down my student loans. I've considered 2 years in Korea, then going to China with PC, but life is uncertain and only what we make of it. Would you say that learning Korean (or whatever local language) while doing my stint would be optimal if I ever come back to the US?


I am unable to join the military due to a disability. Trust me, I've tried and looked into it multiple times. Every recruiter I've talked with has said they appreciate my drive, but it wouldn't get cleared through medical.

There's no reason to live in New York unless you're a banker, yet millions of people call the city home whether for a year, a few months, or even their whole life. Most cities are like that. In absolute terms, I think it largely depends on your social network and the fabric of the immediate area.

I didn't have the best upbringing, and so when I came to the Beltway the first thing I did was find friends. As a result I've had an amazing few years here, despite realizing that yeah I likely won't be able to afford living here unless I get a CS job or something in lobbying that pays the bills. I have started to recognize that I can always come back if I do leave, and my friends have told me I shouldn't tie myself down to the city so young (they're primarily late 20s, a lot of them former military).

What do you mean by being richer than most in terms of my net worth? I've done volunteer work in communities that are in dire poverty so I understand I'm fortunate to have grown up in a relatively more well-off situation, but I guess to every person with a thousand in the bank, a hundred thousand means rich, to that person a million, and so on until you get to Jeff Bezos. Its all relative, is what I'm trying to get at.

I save something like 80% of my paycheck because there's simply nothing to really spend it on, and I enjoy seeing the number rise to know I can pay for things when they come up. Even if it's just $300-$400 every few weeks it adds up. Once I get a real salaried job, I know those savings will hold me over if anything goes south.

I really appreciate your last paragraph. Not letting marketing gurus or others influence my decisions, but to live life and find myself all the same- whatever that even means these days. I wouldn't call myself a minimalist, but if I had to I think I could easily pick up, move to the Balkans or wherever life took me, and live out of a backpack for a few months. Not as a backpacker but like, literally one of those travelers who lives out of a backpack whether out of necessity or desire to do so (is that the same thing? I've always considered backpackers to strictly be hiking/hitch-hiking rather than staying semi-sedentary)

Where did you end up going abroad, how did you manage to get out?
 

BBinger

Kingfisher
Kelent said:
The Peace Corps actually does deploy to PRChina. They put you in a university setting and you get 3 months of language training, the local stipend, 8k at the end, whole bit. It's one of the only reasons right now that I'd want to join PC, outside of spreading a positive image of the US abroad. Korea would definitely mean a larger salary, as well as more savings/cash to spend down my student loans. I've considered 2 years in Korea, then going to China with PC, but life is uncertain and only what we make of it. Would you say that learning Korean (or whatever local language) while doing my stint would be optimal if I ever come back to the US?

I would be very wary about going to mainland China as an agent of the US goverment. While you may not be interested in problems or tit for tat drama, drama may still be interested in you. While patriotism may fuel a desire to spread a good image of the US abroad, the US government is unpopular abroad.

Having more languages is a good thing. It's probably the healthiest thing you could do for your brain.* Aside from communicating with other speakers of the language, the differences in grammar and logic of the language offer you a new set of tools for breaking down problems. One serious caution about the Chinese language is that it is structured to insulate against the future. A Chinese speaker can make a statement that seems to offer a strong commitment if you are applying English language assumptions, but from a Chinese perspective the statement meant nothing of the sort.

Note: By learning a language I mean understanding it to the point you can at least construct you own intelligible sentences and such. I do not mean the flashcard or "language hacker" perspective of memorizing scripts or building a broad set of canned conversations and declaring mission accomplished.

There's no reason to live in New York unless you're a banker, yet millions of people call the city home whether for a year, a few months, or even their whole life. Most cities are like that. In absolute terms, I think it largely depends on your social network and the fabric of the immediate area.

Many people make bad decisions or simply decide not to make any decisions at all.

For most of human history the norm for the bulk of humanity was either some sort of bonded servitude or poverty. In the US and other modern democracies a system emerged in which everyone was suddenly burdened with the responsibility of making decisions which used to be reserved for the lordship. Faced with this new responsibility most people elect to either not make decisions or outsource their decision making to gurus. They go wherever the winds carry them and demand indemnity for the consequences of their decisions or lack thereof.

I didn't have the best upbringing, and so when I came to the Beltway the first thing I did was find friends. As a result I've had an amazing few years here, despite realizing that yeah I likely won't be able to afford living here unless I get a CS job or something in lobbying that pays the bills. I have started to recognize that I can always come back if I do leave, and my friends have told me I shouldn't tie myself down to the city so young (they're primarily late 20s, a lot of them former military).

A good and healthy realization.

What do you mean by being richer than most in terms of my net worth? I've done volunteer work in communities that are in dire poverty so I understand I'm fortunate to have grown up in a relatively more well-off situation, but I guess to every person with a thousand in the bank, a hundred thousand means rich, to that person a million, and so on until you get to Jeff Bezos. Its all relative, is what I'm trying to get at.

I save something like 80% of my paycheck because there's simply nothing to really spend it on, and I enjoy seeing the number rise to know I can pay for things when they come up. Even if it's just $300-$400 every few weeks it adds up. Once I get a real salaried job, I know those savings will hold me over if anything goes south.

What I mean is that if most Americans add up their assets and subtract their liabilities they end up with a negative number. Often a profoundly negative number. One of the great lies spread by social engineering and marketing in the US is that income rules everything. Income is nice, but that matters is net worth. This is related to popular film and television never being depicting "normal" characters in lifestyles that represent their economic condition.

I really appreciate your last paragraph. Not letting marketing gurus or others influence my decisions, but to live life and find myself all the same- whatever that even means these days. I wouldn't call myself a minimalist, but if I had to I think I could easily pick up, move to the Balkans or wherever life took me, and live out of a backpack for a few months. Not as a backpacker but like, literally one of those travelers who lives out of a backpack whether out of necessity or desire to do so (is that the same thing? I've always considered backpackers to strictly be hiking/hitch-hiking rather than staying semi-sedentary)

Where did you end up going abroad, how did you manage to get out?

Minimalism is good and healthy.

I ended up in Uruguay. After drinking away the bulk of my twenties, I started working on digging myself out of that hole. Eventually the work I was doing for people (as opposed to the work I was doing for a company) lead to an opportunity. I took it.

Let me close with a story.

One day Pepe Mujica decided to create program to assist the poor folks in Uruguay who go around in horse carts and digging through dumpsters looking for things to resell. Mujica decided this folks needed to receive aid so that they could live like the trabajadores earning steady pay.

Thusly a program is outlined and great efforts are made preparing the program. Eventually it was time to "help" the horse cart recollectors. It turned out that being industrious folks, the horse cart recollectors typically outearned the average trabajadore with regular employment. The differences in incomes were frankly embarrassing, the incident got swept under the rug, and the entire thing is a very sore subject for the local trabajadores.

Quite a few lessons there.
 

Thomas Jackson

Woodpecker
I still dont understand the cost/benefit of the grad degree. You dont need that to do most of the things you are mentioning, so why take on that debt? NGO jobs are largely shit too as mentioned above. I live in the area as well so am familiar.
 

Kelent

Robin
Thomas Jackson said:
I still dont understand the cost/benefit of the grad degree. You dont need that to do most of the things you are mentioning, so why take on that debt? NGO jobs are largely shit too as mentioned above. I live in the area as well so am familiar.

It isn't a necessity, but when you're surrounded by people who are going to Georgetown, George Washington, John Hopkins... You can imagine the pressure, right? Grad degrees aren't required, but my thoughts going in are "okay if I want to work in my policy region someday, why not get a grad degree in it?" More than likely, I'd be going abroad at 25/26 for it. I'd get grants/scholarships to cover tuition/CoL, plus savings and/or work on the side if that's allowed. I've got a friend of mine who works in Taiwan doing some NGO work and loves it, for instance. They took a few years to go into PC, work on their research and hobbies, took the 8k and entered the labor force in Taiwan. I don't know how much they're making or if its any better than English teaching out of undergrad, but its what they did with their degree.

What is it that brought you to the area, Thomas? Do you see a lot of people in a similar situation to mine?
 

Thomas Jackson

Woodpecker
Understand the peer pressure, but make sure it's actually worthwhile, as it isnt cheap (especially the places you mentioned). Dont do it just because everyone else is.

I came here for my 1st job out of college, and haven't left. In the business/financial world though, which is why i think very much in cost/benefit terms.
 

jimukr75

Sparrow
Back in the day the peace corps had some opportunities if you networked and had a useful degree. In Ukraine for example , in the day, there were some stationed in Kiev. Some ended up in POSITIONS, like the chamber of commerce,etc.
 

stream26

Chicken
I grew up poor and with ZERO sense of what it means to save. On the contrary- when I first started making money I would spend it on things i considered tangible stuff because money felt fleeting. To this day i still do that. I found that monthly budget template works for me.
Its made to focus on giving you a monthly limit to your spending. Instead of focusing on where to allocate your money it works on the principle that as long as you remember to not go over your monthly spending limit, you will be saving money passively. It gives you a definite number to limit yourself to- allowing you to focus on allocating funds to what they are really needed for.
 

tomzestatlu

Kingfisher
I will reuse this thread.
I have noticed, that recent period of my life I am extremely stressed about my financial future. It´s almost like only thing keeping me from being happy (there might be more things, but I see there a chance to settle them maybe).
To give some background, I am 28yo and live in Eastern European country (it´s more like bridge between east and west). What shaped current economic situation the most is the fact, that until 1989, we were part of eastern side of the world and were fully under USSR influence, living "socialist dream". After the revolution and joining capitalist world, there were many clever people, who earn a lot of money and there was no competetion to starting whatever bussiness (these are something like US boomers). And most importantly, until the revolution, the most of the real estate was owned by government and there was huge sell-off in next 20 years. People were allowed to buy real estate for just few single percents of current prices. That determined them be at least middle class in 2020.
Nowadays, real estate is extremely overpriced. But we came to a point, when people, who have already owned properties can allow buy more, while it´s unreachable for people, who start with zero support. I make decent above-average salary, but I can hardly afford to take 30 years mortgage for 50 square meters flat. And such flat is suitable maybe for 2 people, but not a family. Even though I would somehow cross the barrier and earned good cash (30 monthly salaries), it´s still nothing (while years ago it was enough to buy a place to live). Literally, just being able to get mortgage is luxurious thing, if you rely just on yourself. Young people around me are able to buy real estate only with support from their families (or they are gifted it). But I know, that I will never get any support.
I´m in military (it´s actually decently paid and nowadays very secure job) and dumped CO career for some more interesting job in mil, with opportunity to earn really good money in 5-10 years horizont (but also I would have much better salary immediately), but my current chain of command stopped me from going to new job (even though I was selected for it -not easy thing- and it took me 1 and half years, day by day, to prepare myself). That´s another thing that makes me bitter and destroyed my financial plans. Also I have made some investments, that don´t seem to end up well (losing that money is not that big deal as losing picture of appreciated revenues I was aiming for). I have done some low-cost travelling and so, but besides that I live on cheap in 25 meters square garsoniere, cooking for myself etc and I watch my budget closely.

I have came to a point, where I find myself stressed more than healthy. I can say about myself, that I´m stress resilient, so I just follow my plans, even though there are more and more obstacles coming in my way. I try to see them as opportunities. I have got strong discipline and I am goals oriented. But there are moments, when I ask myself, how long can I endure this, before everything in me collapses. At this moment, all I can do is workout and run, read psychologically-oriented books and seek a way how to get some victory and cash on my side. There´s no fun for me anymore. I feel the stress is killing my ability to feel joy, to have healthy intimate relationships and the pressure is high. On the other hand, I have ability to don´t listen to it, and just follow my routine through the most of the days, without any damage.
 
Yes, put your faith in Christ and have complete trust in God. Without that you will never cease to worry, for the world is inherently unstable, ever changing and unlimited.
Furthermore I highly recommend to find out how money works. You don't have to read endless books about it, I highly recommend diving deep on Grant Cardone's Cardone Zone . Figure out some episodes where he goes in depth about money. KEY POINT IS: MONEY MAKES MONEY. So don't SPEND your money, don't SAVE it, but INVEST it. Never forget that lesson. Never, ever forget that lesson young man, for that is the mistake that everyone else makes. Get money and then multiply it through investing, you could figure it out yourself, you could let your bank do it for you for a fee (which is what I do), but find a way to get PASSIVE income besides your ACTIVE income, which could be bonds/stocks but also other ways. I hate to capitalize these words, but they are so important for a young men to understand that I hope you will never forget them. For more info, look for shows where Grant talks about money and you will have an eternal edge to those who will struggle for money their whole lives as they don't understand these lessons (I will pray for them).
Third thing I would like to say to you is to live a more spiritual instead of materialistic life, which is in line with the first lesson I shared with you. You do not need that much money to get around materialistically. Make a realistic plan what you need for the lifestyle that you want to have and then even boil away all the unnecessary stuff. When you live a minimalistic lifestyle, you will find materialistic freedom.
Things you own end up owning you.
 

paninaro

Kingfisher
Nowadays, real estate is extremely overpriced. But we came to a point, when people, who have already owned properties can allow buy more, while it´s unreachable for people, who start with zero support. I make decent above-average salary, but I can hardly afford to take 30 years mortgage for 50 square meters flat. And such flat is suitable maybe for 2 people, but not a family. Even though I would somehow cross the barrier and earned good cash (30 monthly salaries), it´s still nothing (while years ago it was enough to buy a place to live). Literally, just being able to get mortgage is luxurious thing, if you rely just on yourself. Young people around me are able to buy real estate only with support from their families (or they are gifted it). But I know, that I will never get any support.

First thing is to focus on the stress. You don't need to keep up with everyone else. Enjoy the simple things in life and you'll be a happy man.

Also, even in "rich" countries like the US, not may 28 year olds own a house -- they are renting too.

What is common in Eastern European countries like yours is when communism fell, all the good stuff got privatized and given to people with connections, including housing. They made easy money. Look up the 20 richest people in your country. If more than half are in real estate, your country is still at that stage. Real estate in cases like that is essentially arbitrage using connections to get it at a low price.

The next stage for countries is to actually produce -- manufacturing, technology, etc. If you look at the US and the top 10 richest people, almost all of them are in these fields (the exception is the Wal-Mart guy). Younger people tend to do well in those fields, so the opportunity is there if you want it.

As for real estate prices, they will eventually settle down once there are not enough buyers, or just move further outside the city. I understand why it's important to have some space if you are raising a family, so kids can go out to play and so on. Maybe a smaller town is a good option.
 
Yeah the key is to get a job in the city as a software engineer or in IT. Go remote. Then move to a cheaper and smaller locale keeping your city salary, where you can take a train in once a week/month etc.
 

tomzestatlu

Kingfisher
Yes, put your faith in Christ and have complete trust in God. Without that you will never cease to worry, for the world is inherently unstable, ever changing and unlimited.
Furthermore I highly recommend to find out how money works. You don't have to read endless books about it, I highly recommend diving deep on Grant Cardone's Cardone Zone . Figure out some episodes where he goes in depth about money. KEY POINT IS: MONEY MAKES MONEY. So don't SPEND your money, don't SAVE it, but INVEST it. Never forget that lesson. Never, ever forget that lesson young man, for that is the mistake that everyone else makes. Get money and then multiply it through investing, you could figure it out yourself, you could let your bank do it for you for a fee (which is what I do), but find a way to get PASSIVE income besides your ACTIVE income, which could be bonds/stocks but also other ways. I hate to capitalize these words, but they are so important for a young men to understand that I hope you will never forget them. For more info, look for shows where Grant talks about money and you will have an eternal edge to those who will struggle for money their whole lives as they don't understand these lessons (I will pray for them).
Third thing I would like to say to you is to live a more spiritual instead of materialistic life, which is in line with the first lesson I shared with you. You do not need that much money to get around materialistically. Make a realistic plan what you need for the lifestyle that you want to have and then even boil away all the unnecessary stuff. When you live a minimalistic lifestyle, you will find materialistic freedom.
Things you own end up owning you.
Thanks you for your reply.
As I mentioned in my post, I invest (over past years I invested 5-6 montly sallaries of mine). But I don´t live in US and in country, where average netto salary is les then $1000, you won´t get rich by investing with bank. I think that I understand today´s money circle well. I listened to video you posted and it´s nothing I didn´t know before. He says obvious things, nothing surprising. Anyway I am not hurt by corona crisis, it didn´t do anything negative to my life, maybe I can say it turned out positive to me.

First thing is to focus on the stress. You don't need to keep up with everyone else. Enjoy the simple things in life and you'll be a happy man.

Also, even in "rich" countries like the US, not may 28 year olds own a house -- they are renting too.

What is common in Eastern European countries like yours is when communism fell, all the good stuff got privatized and given to people with connections, including housing. They made easy money. Look up the 20 richest people in your country. If more than half are in real estate, your country is still at that stage. Real estate in cases like that is essentially arbitrage using connections to get it at a low price.

The next stage for countries is to actually produce -- manufacturing, technology, etc. If you look at the US and the top 10 richest people, almost all of them are in these fields (the exception is the Wal-Mart guy). Younger people tend to do well in those fields, so the opportunity is there if you want it.

As for real estate prices, they will eventually settle down once there are not enough buyers, or just move further outside the city. I understand why it's important to have some space if you are raising a family, so kids can go out to play and so on. Maybe a smaller town is a good option.
Thanks you for your reply.
I know I should try to get some more peace, but on the other hand, if I want to ever get out of this situation, I must focus my energy on pushing forward. I don´t have any obligations now and I will not ever have this much energy as right now. There are just many people around, who stress less, chill, but on the other hand, they live very average lifes and that scary me. I have very under-average background, if we speak about family and people who were close to me (also my life was like this until mid twenties). And even though they are less stressed about some things, I don´t think they live happier lifes.

I am not sayig, that I have image in my head, that if I lived in US, I would be millionaire already (I don´t even want to, I like my country). But as I understand (mainly thanks to this forum), its not difficult to earn money there, if you are not afraid to put in the work.

Current monthly sallary here can be around $1000, while montly rent for 50 square meters flat is $700.
There are worse countries even in Europe and I my intention was not to talk bad about my country, life here is still pretty easy and comfortable (and while in many countries they struggle with unemployment, before corona our rate was only 3%). What I would rather point out is that it doesn´t matter what degree or work a young person has, it´s more about their background. Young educated people in lucrative fields can´t catch up with those, who have background. Average Joe, who work normal job and spends all money on parties will be for decades ahead of somebody else, just because his parents bought some flats for 1/20 today´s price. But that´s majority of people, not upper class (that´s why middle (lower) class is doing okay, even though cost of living is so high)

I have one really good friend and I consider her be my life mentor. She is very hard-working, skilled in her area and earns good money. And she always tells me it´s about abundance mindset. She tell me to believe, that I will have enough and I will have enough. She´s 9 years older, that means she´s 10 years more in the opportunities game. She told me, that she believed she deserves money and she got it. She lives in beautiful custom built house. But there are things she doesn´t see (actually she probably sees it, but it doesn´t matter), when she´s talking about abundance mentality. She inherited a flat that she used to live in for years for free and she built that house in family property (which price is probably even higher than the building itself). Also, she got mortgage for the house during times, when banks didn´t require having any money on your account (now it´s almost impossible to save money just to meet banks requirements for mortgage). She has more incomes, but her fixed income comes from doing some external work for her father´s company, which don´t take her more than 5 hours a week from home (while having 40hours/week sallary). Currently her montly pay for her mortgage for beautiful big house would hardly cover my potential montly pay for 25 square meters garsoniere.
There´s nobody I value higher than her and I really wish this to her, but I use her as an example.
Real estate is still very good investment if you have extra cash, but less and less people can afford this investment, while rich are getting more and more profit from it.

I am not saying I don´t want to put effort, I actually enjoy it a lot. What I am negative about is that all the investment possibilities or bussines ideas (there´s always opportunity but consider I am not Elon Musk) are drained. I don´t have any positive outlook for future - that´s my biggest problem.

I was supposed to move to smaller city with better real estate prices (while earning much better money and spending much less for commuting), but my chain of command stopped it. I have alternate plan to attend to selection to unit similar the the one I desired, with better chance of being transered there.
I also started to learn to program few weeks ago. My free time currently is either working out, studying coding or reading. I was actually into coding already back into elementary school, but then I was scared of ending up as nerd, and chose to be "tough" guy at 15. Now it´s time to give it second chance.
 

srd

Pigeon
Elon Musk is a shill and is not an organic inventor. They all are cryptos trained/recruited by military intelligence of a certain country and have the same bad agenda....Musk, Gates, etc...

As for money, money is just an idea for exchange, which has been hi-jacked from its original purpose, especially be western 'elites'. Blockchain allegedly 'decentralised tech' is also BS used by our elites - its meaningless to the common person.

The most important possession is one's 'people', their tribe (even if it is a multi-racial tribe). The next important possession is land, access to resources - including food/water/medical/industry....'money' in the modern era has been used to defraud Europeans from these aforementioned things and to replace it with worthless paper, digital currency, and mass immigration and a decaying degenerate culture. So money is an easily hijacked idea that is counter-productive to the security and wellbeing of the human race.
 

paninaro

Kingfisher
I know I should try to get some more peace, but on the other hand, if I want to ever get out of this situation, I must focus my energy on pushing forward. I don´t have any obligations now and I will not ever have this much energy as right now.

Go back and read your post. You spend half of it talking about real estate and who has this and who has that. Don't focus on that. It will come if you do things right and you have the drive and motivation.

I believe you wrote you're in the military. A lot of successful entrepreneurs are veterans. The reason is the military teaches you a lot about process, logistics, and management, which can be very useful when running a company. You're getting a great "free" education right now in your workplace. Think of that and how you can use it in the future.
 
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