How Trump Can Fix His HUGE Problem With Catholic Voters
- Thread starter The Lizard of Oz
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I don't believe Catholicism has anything to do with it.
1.) He has a big problem with Hispanics.
2.) Many of my female family members are heavily Catholic, but have been blinded by the media. [They are Australian, and can't vote, but if I was to line policies up side by side, They would unknowingly pick Trump]. Many people don't realize that they agree with his stances on various issues.
The other aspect I have noticed is that a blind sighted loyalty to feminism runs far deeper than a loyalty to their faith [And these are heavy Catholics].
1.) He has a big problem with Hispanics.
2.) Many of my female family members are heavily Catholic, but have been blinded by the media. [They are Australian, and can't vote, but if I was to line policies up side by side, They would unknowingly pick Trump]. Many people don't realize that they agree with his stances on various issues.
The other aspect I have noticed is that a blind sighted loyalty to feminism runs far deeper than a loyalty to their faith [And these are heavy Catholics].
I know there's a post minimum in the Politics subforum, but I've been a member here a long time and I've contributed to plenty of forum members' professional advancement in real life so I'm just going to go ahead and drop an anecdote here because this topic hits close to home. I won't post again unless it's necessary to respond to this specific posting.
I come from one of those large, lower middle class, non-East Coast, Irish Catholic families. I'm talking the people who settled Oklahoma during the Land Run like in that Tom Cruise movie "Far and Away." Two generations later, a large number of those settlers' descendants moved west in the 30s with the rest of the Okies, but still married Irish Catholic almost exclusively. That has persisted basically until my generation. Both of my parents are Irish Catholic and pretty much all the names are too going back through the entire extended family tree. I know I'm going off on a tangent here, but I think no one intermarried because Oklahoma is Anglo-Saxon/Scots-Irish Southern Baptist/Methodist territory and there just weren't any other Catholic ethnicities like in parts of the upper Midwest. The same thing happened in the 30s in the areas of California they settled in. Anyway...
Unlike our distant cousins in the Eastern Seaboard or Chicago who have a history of voting Democrat due to union influence or political machine benefits, my family, both still in OK/KS and in CA, was solidly Republican leading into 2008. My dad has 10 siblings and my mom 4, making for an extended family of +40 on dad's side and 22 on mom's. I'd put it at 95% Republican at that time. That's a lot of white Catholic Republicans, a point I'll come back to in a minute.
That's the year (or maybe a couple of years before because of Iraq War fatigue) people started to switch. In 2008, it was mostly the women who fell for the Obama propaganda, but several of the men did too. For instance, my grandmother, someone who had never voted for a single Democrat before, voted Obama in 2008 and 2012. Several of my aunts also did the same. Oprah had really gotten to them.
What I noticed during those couple of years was that the homilies and prayers in unison (I don't remember the correct term for it) all became much more universalistic and "tolerant." Gone were the prayers for self-control, penance, and and personal connection with God. In their place there were prayers for community assistance, hopes for finding a job, return of parish troops from the war zones, and acceptance of others. Whenever I was visiting home, I'd go to mass with my parents and grandparents, but didn't think much of it because I really wasn't paying attention and really wasn't much of a believer (still not).
However, in hindsight, those mid-2000s were the time when the Church was really under pressure to cleanse it's "pedophile problem." I'm not going to create a conspiracy theory here, but things definitely changed during those years. In a way, I think the Church was shamed into becoming more "tolerant" and progressive by the media and various other groups holding the child molester charge over its head. For example, my grandparent's priest was implicated in that, which was something that brought bewilderment as well as shame.
Anyway, I think almost all of those family members who voted Obama in 2008 also voted for him in 2012, with all of the newly minted voters who turned 18 between elections also going Democrat.
Flash forward to today and the divide in the family is almost solely based on gender and schooling. Almost all of the women don't like Trump despite any attempt at reasoning with them (imagine that). I'd say 70% of the women are in the Hillary camp because Trump is "so vulgar and racist." I can't read their Facebook feeds. It's painful.
The men on the other hand are the polar opposite. Pretty much all of them, even the majority of those who voted Obama in 2008 and 2012, are unabashedly pro-Trump. I think the extended family has become much more right wing over the last 3 years. The only men who are not are the under 35 urban professional crowd who went to Catholic universities and UCs. I'm talking Notre Dame, St. Mary's, and Loyola Marymount, UC Santa Cruz crowd. All of those dudes are as anti-Trump as you can get. All of us who went to your Chico States/UNLVs of the world were spared that.
So to make an already too long anecdote short: the Church came under fire a decade ago for child sexual abuse and made a turn towards "progressivism." This turn, coupled with constant propaganda in the media, has shifted white Catholic women very far left. The men have also shifted but it's mostly those who have been indoctrinated via overpriced schooling, white collar conformity, and just general pussy ass millennial behavior.
In short, I'd agree with earlier posters that, outside of Boston and NY, white Catholics are more prone to vote Democrat, but I think the atrocious Catholic numbers in the OP are more due to immigrant Catholic groups like Hispanics, Filipinos, Nigerians, etc. What that means for Trump's strategy, I don't know.
I come from one of those large, lower middle class, non-East Coast, Irish Catholic families. I'm talking the people who settled Oklahoma during the Land Run like in that Tom Cruise movie "Far and Away." Two generations later, a large number of those settlers' descendants moved west in the 30s with the rest of the Okies, but still married Irish Catholic almost exclusively. That has persisted basically until my generation. Both of my parents are Irish Catholic and pretty much all the names are too going back through the entire extended family tree. I know I'm going off on a tangent here, but I think no one intermarried because Oklahoma is Anglo-Saxon/Scots-Irish Southern Baptist/Methodist territory and there just weren't any other Catholic ethnicities like in parts of the upper Midwest. The same thing happened in the 30s in the areas of California they settled in. Anyway...
Unlike our distant cousins in the Eastern Seaboard or Chicago who have a history of voting Democrat due to union influence or political machine benefits, my family, both still in OK/KS and in CA, was solidly Republican leading into 2008. My dad has 10 siblings and my mom 4, making for an extended family of +40 on dad's side and 22 on mom's. I'd put it at 95% Republican at that time. That's a lot of white Catholic Republicans, a point I'll come back to in a minute.
That's the year (or maybe a couple of years before because of Iraq War fatigue) people started to switch. In 2008, it was mostly the women who fell for the Obama propaganda, but several of the men did too. For instance, my grandmother, someone who had never voted for a single Democrat before, voted Obama in 2008 and 2012. Several of my aunts also did the same. Oprah had really gotten to them.
What I noticed during those couple of years was that the homilies and prayers in unison (I don't remember the correct term for it) all became much more universalistic and "tolerant." Gone were the prayers for self-control, penance, and and personal connection with God. In their place there were prayers for community assistance, hopes for finding a job, return of parish troops from the war zones, and acceptance of others. Whenever I was visiting home, I'd go to mass with my parents and grandparents, but didn't think much of it because I really wasn't paying attention and really wasn't much of a believer (still not).
However, in hindsight, those mid-2000s were the time when the Church was really under pressure to cleanse it's "pedophile problem." I'm not going to create a conspiracy theory here, but things definitely changed during those years. In a way, I think the Church was shamed into becoming more "tolerant" and progressive by the media and various other groups holding the child molester charge over its head. For example, my grandparent's priest was implicated in that, which was something that brought bewilderment as well as shame.
Anyway, I think almost all of those family members who voted Obama in 2008 also voted for him in 2012, with all of the newly minted voters who turned 18 between elections also going Democrat.
Flash forward to today and the divide in the family is almost solely based on gender and schooling. Almost all of the women don't like Trump despite any attempt at reasoning with them (imagine that). I'd say 70% of the women are in the Hillary camp because Trump is "so vulgar and racist." I can't read their Facebook feeds. It's painful.
The men on the other hand are the polar opposite. Pretty much all of them, even the majority of those who voted Obama in 2008 and 2012, are unabashedly pro-Trump. I think the extended family has become much more right wing over the last 3 years. The only men who are not are the under 35 urban professional crowd who went to Catholic universities and UCs. I'm talking Notre Dame, St. Mary's, and Loyola Marymount, UC Santa Cruz crowd. All of those dudes are as anti-Trump as you can get. All of us who went to your Chico States/UNLVs of the world were spared that.
So to make an already too long anecdote short: the Church came under fire a decade ago for child sexual abuse and made a turn towards "progressivism." This turn, coupled with constant propaganda in the media, has shifted white Catholic women very far left. The men have also shifted but it's mostly those who have been indoctrinated via overpriced schooling, white collar conformity, and just general pussy ass millennial behavior.
In short, I'd agree with earlier posters that, outside of Boston and NY, white Catholics are more prone to vote Democrat, but I think the atrocious Catholic numbers in the OP are more due to immigrant Catholic groups like Hispanics, Filipinos, Nigerians, etc. What that means for Trump's strategy, I don't know.
Constitution45
Pelican
What the above confirms is that this election is all about culture. Over in Britain the same could be said for the Brexit vote. People who voted for Brexit I geniuenly are not concerned about the economic incentives or if we were to face economic hardships in the next decade or so due to leaving the European Union. The EU symbolised political correctness, immigration, new leftism, a general collection of everything. Interestingly enough the media at the time painted these people as fools for talking about muslim immigration.
But indirectly they were correct, however the bigger picture was being missed when they were having interviews with working class whites in the North of England. Before European voters would compromise and use rationality even if it went against their groups best interests. Now they don't care and will take a risk in order to prove a point. Something which really put the frighteners on the left. Which is used to relying on their opposition's predictability and complacency.
Come November time, we really will see where the country stands on the cultural issues of our time.
But indirectly they were correct, however the bigger picture was being missed when they were having interviews with working class whites in the North of England. Before European voters would compromise and use rationality even if it went against their groups best interests. Now they don't care and will take a risk in order to prove a point. Something which really put the frighteners on the left. Which is used to relying on their opposition's predictability and complacency.
Come November time, we really will see where the country stands on the cultural issues of our time.
Foolsgo1d
Peacock
@ Constitution.
The difference between whites voting against the EU and Catholics voting against Trump is the religious indoctrination. The former came together on the basis the EU was taking away what made Britain, Britain.
Catholics in the US are in my experience, like every other highly religious group of people, a crowd of sheep led by those who can easily manipulate. There were very good reasons pedophiles flourished in the Catholic church and one of them was the ability to hide in plain sight and fool the congregation.
Now we see the same thing occurring when dealing with politics. The guy talking at the congregation is telling them who to vote for.
It is this blind obedience the likes of Hillary love to call supporters. You can always count on it.
The difference between whites voting against the EU and Catholics voting against Trump is the religious indoctrination. The former came together on the basis the EU was taking away what made Britain, Britain.
Catholics in the US are in my experience, like every other highly religious group of people, a crowd of sheep led by those who can easily manipulate. There were very good reasons pedophiles flourished in the Catholic church and one of them was the ability to hide in plain sight and fool the congregation.
Now we see the same thing occurring when dealing with politics. The guy talking at the congregation is telling them who to vote for.
It is this blind obedience the likes of Hillary love to call supporters. You can always count on it.
Constitution45
Pelican
^^ Point taken,
A lot of Christians don't understand the rules of this new game. Problem the reason why all of the major cultural changes in the last 30 years, have eventually been accepted by Christianity or even adopted as being Christian virtues. For example the Church of England strongly supports immigration into Europe under the 'Refugee crisis'. The environment in which people ideally would point out that this actually poses a threat to Christianity in many places, just simply doesn't exist.
A lot of Christians don't understand the rules of this new game. Problem the reason why all of the major cultural changes in the last 30 years, have eventually been accepted by Christianity or even adopted as being Christian virtues. For example the Church of England strongly supports immigration into Europe under the 'Refugee crisis'. The environment in which people ideally would point out that this actually poses a threat to Christianity in many places, just simply doesn't exist.
Given that D. Trump likes risky, bold strategies, he could go after the (illegitimate) so-called Pope, Bergoglio.
Believe me, many, many Catholic people have lost trust in this current Bergoglio Pope, whom we consider illegitimate. He's (Bergoglio) obviously a marxist plant, a crazy SJW, and an opportunist (considering how he made peace with his former enemy, she-devil CFK).
As a French catholic, I myself feel the historic right of disavowing any pope who becomes a communist SJW. We French did just that in the past: as the "Elder Sister of the Church", France has always had the right to revoke Vatican popes, and name its own Popes (in Avignon city). I think time has come to do just that, we catholic people. We have to disavow Bergoglio (who, let me remind you, sent 2 Jesuits to their flight-over-the-delta deaths, in his troubled youth), and name a new, Conservative pope - or recall the legitimate Pope, Benedikt.
Anyway, Trump could claim his respect for the catholic faith, but note that an impostor has taken power in the Vatican, and this impostor is disliked by most European catholic people... Trump could also point that the true pope is actually Conservative German Benedict, absolutely not Bergoglio. For Bergoglio cannot be pope while the first, genuine pope is still alive.
In any case, let me remind you that one can legally call his holiness Benedikt, the Pope, because even though SJWs forced him under duress to "resign" (non-sense, and sacrilege even: a pope cannot resign!), he still maintains the right to the title of "Pope". So, technically, he (Benedikt) is the Pope. Bergoglio might also use (when he's not busy reading Marx or talking non-sense about Lampedusa, what does he know about Africa, as an Argentinian?) the title Pope, but Benedikt has not lost this title...
Believe me, many, many Catholic people have lost trust in this current Bergoglio Pope, whom we consider illegitimate. He's (Bergoglio) obviously a marxist plant, a crazy SJW, and an opportunist (considering how he made peace with his former enemy, she-devil CFK).
As a French catholic, I myself feel the historic right of disavowing any pope who becomes a communist SJW. We French did just that in the past: as the "Elder Sister of the Church", France has always had the right to revoke Vatican popes, and name its own Popes (in Avignon city). I think time has come to do just that, we catholic people. We have to disavow Bergoglio (who, let me remind you, sent 2 Jesuits to their flight-over-the-delta deaths, in his troubled youth), and name a new, Conservative pope - or recall the legitimate Pope, Benedikt.
Anyway, Trump could claim his respect for the catholic faith, but note that an impostor has taken power in the Vatican, and this impostor is disliked by most European catholic people... Trump could also point that the true pope is actually Conservative German Benedict, absolutely not Bergoglio. For Bergoglio cannot be pope while the first, genuine pope is still alive.
In any case, let me remind you that one can legally call his holiness Benedikt, the Pope, because even though SJWs forced him under duress to "resign" (non-sense, and sacrilege even: a pope cannot resign!), he still maintains the right to the title of "Pope". So, technically, he (Benedikt) is the Pope. Bergoglio might also use (when he's not busy reading Marx or talking non-sense about Lampedusa, what does he know about Africa, as an Argentinian?) the title Pope, but Benedikt has not lost this title...
Easy_C
Peacock
Part of it is that the churches themselves are cucking hard. Apparently Trump saying mean things is worse than a candidate who....you know....is LITERALLY moving us towards World War 3.
Look into the Soros leaks and you know why.
Good news is its not all bad. The priest last night made a remark about "hateful language in politics" anf I muttered something about how that is just so much worse than having everyone around you dying mysteriously. The waspy lady next to me overheard and reacted with vigorous agreement.
Look into the Soros leaks and you know why.
Good news is its not all bad. The priest last night made a remark about "hateful language in politics" anf I muttered something about how that is just so much worse than having everyone around you dying mysteriously. The waspy lady next to me overheard and reacted with vigorous agreement.
Well I don't know about your cucked ass Churches but Hillary is pretty much loathed by everyone in my Orthodox churches. 
My preist's wife went to a Trump rally in Penn and has become a huge fan!
I'm telling you guys, Orthodox Churches are pretty much the only consistent option for great churches nowadays.
My preist's wife went to a Trump rally in Penn and has become a huge fan!I'm telling you guys, Orthodox Churches are pretty much the only consistent option for great churches nowadays.
Samseau said:Well I don't know about your cucked ass Churches but Hillary is pretty much loathed by everyone in my Orthodox churches.
I'm telling you guys, Orthodox Churches are pretty much the only consistent option for great churches nowadays.
Samseau, somewhat off topic, but are you one of those people who think Christianity is largely a Euro-centric religion?
Samseau said:Well I don't know about your cucked ass Churches but Hillary is pretty much loathed by everyone in my Orthodox churches.
I'm telling you guys, Orthodox Churches are pretty much the only consistent option for great churches nowadays.
As a French catholic, I have, sadly, to reckon that you are right. Catholic church is on its (SJW-engineered) deathbed.
I myself stand ready to convert to Orthodoxy, when needed... Meanwhile, I from times to times go to Orthodox churches to pray, which I am allowed to do, considering that his holiness Benedikt declared Orthodox churches as "true churches", from a catholic point of view.
By the way, it is possible that Pope Benedikt was sabotaged because he was getting too close to reuniting Orthodoxy and true conservative Catholicism.
"On April 20, 2005, the newly elected Pope Benedict XVI gave his first message at the end of a Mass he had concelebrated with the members of the College of Cardinals in the Sistine Chapel. He signaled his mission in these words: "Nourished and sustained by the Eucharist, Catholics cannot but feel encouraged to strive for the full unity for which Christ expressed so ardent a hope in the Upper Room.
"With full awareness, therefore, at the beginning of his ministry in the Church of Rome which Peter bathed in his blood, Peter's current Successor takes on as his primary task the duty to work tirelessly to rebuild the full and visible unity of all Christ's followers. This is his ambition, his impelling duty."
The mission of restoring the full and visible unity of the Church was at the heart of Benedict's papacy. He made Church history, when Motu Propio, he released the Apostolic Constitution on Groups of Anglicans which began the healing of the divided Western Church.
Benedict XVI earned the great respect of Patriarchs and leaders of the Orthodox Church throughout his service in the Chair of Peter. I believe he was making progress toward some form of communion between Eastern and Western Christianity which can make the Third Millennium a millennium of communion and bring an end to the disunion of the second millennium. It remains his unfinished legacy"
My wealthy Catholic grandmother loves the current pope, thinks Obama never ordered any drone strikes and deserved a second term, and believes Trump is evil... because CNN and her church told her so.
This demographic will be a tough nut to crack.
This demographic will be a tough nut to crack.
Samseau said:Well I don't know about your cucked ass Churches but Hillary is pretty much loathed by everyone in my Orthodox churches.
I'm telling you guys, Orthodox Churches are pretty much the only consistent option for great churches nowadays.
It is clear that these will be the only ones that don't change, because they have been the only that have never changed. There will be, however, even an exodus of the people that labeled themselves as this (culturally) when the goings get tough, and I can even see leaders near the end times in the orthodox churches aligning with a sort of globalism when the true church is scattered, but remains very real (and of course with the remaining faithful headed by successors to the apostles).
iop890 said:
The Church in France is divided between modernist deserts and thriving traditionalist communities. If he lives in a hippy dippy diocese it can be pretty depressing. Where there are orthodox bishops the Church is thriving, where they try to conform to the secular society it's in a state of collapse.
The Lizard of Oz said:
:dodgy:
The Washington Post is a propaganda outlet funded by Jeff Bozos.
Washington Post... extremely important article.. :tard: I find that difficult to believe.
As other people have said most of Christianity has been throughly infiltrated by leftie ideas, so it is difficult to get Catholics and others on the Trump train.
Also Trump appeared inauthentic when trying to appeal to this group in Iowa before. Let's be honest, he doesn't really fool anyone pretending to be a hardcore Christian.
However, (!) you have come up with really good ideas to counter his image with this group. I particularly like criticising Hillary's abortion position. I had no idea about that.
It works, uses emotional persuasion, and paints her as the monstrous sociopath she is.
I think it's the best one and this needs to be spread around.
Big endorsement from old Catholic newspaper yesterday.
http://thewandererpress.com/catholi...gainst-sitting-out-the-presidential-election/
http://thewandererpress.com/catholi...gainst-sitting-out-the-presidential-election/
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