Hugh Hefner dead at 91

Mercenary

Hummingbird
Comte De St. Germain said:
I did not mention anyone personally

My mistake, you must mean another RVFer (apart from me) who also talked about "staring at the sun to improve your eyesight, the earth bring flat, or about succubi."

Your veiled personal attacks don't fool anyone.
I said those things in the past, and I own all of them without shame.

The real question is, what the hell does bringing any of my past opinions on other totally unrelated topics, have to do with the discussion about Hugh Hefner ?


But it's no surprise...you have a bad habit of personally attacking or insulting respected and established members on RVF like you did with Valentine, or attacking long standing members like Pride Male for which you got a 7 day ban if remember correctly.
 

Comte De St. Germain

Crow
Gold Member
Mercenary said:
Comte De St. Germain said:
I did not mention anyone personally

My mistake, you must mean another RVFer (apart from me) who also talked about "staring at the sun to improve your eyesight, the earth bring flat, or about succubi."

Your veiled attacks don't fool anyone.
I said those things in the past, and I own all of them without shame.

The real question is, what the hell does bringing any of my past opinions on other totally unrelated topics, have to do with the discussion about Hugh Hefner ?

Yeah and I know people in real life that have too with various opinions I disagree with. Shit I believe in demons myself, but that's neither here nor there.

If you think this is about you again I could care less about you, and more about the implications of being associated with a whoremonger for my opinions and the topic of game.

If you wanted to duke it out with me on those topics you were always welcome too over PM.
 

Sherman

Ostrich
It seems to be established that Hugh Hefner was legitimately for civil rights beginning at least in the 1950s. This is acknowledge by civil rights leaders. In contrast, many of those attacking Hefner for publishing pictures of women were active segregationists and cruel to people just for who they were.

I think a case can be made that Hefner was a moral man who believed in treating people fairly. He was a Methodist and may have internalized his values from the teachings of John Wesley. I saw one interview where he said he always reminded himself of his fortunate position and not to abuse his power.

In any case, when you are immoral and unjust, people that have been under your control tend to hate you.

http://abolition.e2bn.org/people_32.html

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911

Peacock
Gold Member
General Stalin said:
Looks like race threads are RVF's version of "6 degrees of kevin bacon." Can literally turn any topic into a race discussion.

That's a pretty shortsighted view of the last few posts in this thread.

Some posters claimed that Hefner was great because he featured blacks in his media, a relevant point, though misguided IMHO. So I've answered by looking at him as part of the broader toxic cultural message that went with the Civil Rights/Great Society package, a package that greatly undermined black society. This was not a gratuitous tangent, it went instead to the heart of the problem, an important part of the cultural movement promoted by the likes of Hefner.

Actually this perspective helps explain racial problems in America today a whole lot better than purely racial (and fairly racist) explanations that lead people to belive that the problems with black America derive from inherent racial inferiority, rather than nefarious and subversive social engineering programs applied over decades. Most people lack the perspective to understand how important cultural programs have been in the destruction of American society in general, and black communities in particular.
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
Comte De St. Germain said:
General Stalin said:
Looks like race threads are RVF's version of "6 degrees of kevin bacon." Can literally turn any topic into a race discussion.

Generally a result of our dearest politics posters getting in over their heads and out of their element.

Easy to trace from where they have accumulated the majority of their reps from(other than meet ups as that's carte blanche could be about anything they discussed in person such as staring at the sun to improve your eyesight, the earth bring flat, or about succubi) and not from where they supposedly posted as well.

Want to know if someone has game? Check their reps. As the forum has evolved further than game due to what some consider more pressing topics of discussion.


This is neither the game forum, nor the politics forum, but both subjects are frequently breached, depending on the topic discussed and the angle of approach. Some guys praised Hefner for featuring black people in his media, fair point. I tried to provide a broader picture of the role of leading pornographers like HH in mid to late 20th century, and the nefarious nature of that cultural change agent, using good sources to support my point, in a cogent and concise manner.

That flew a bit over your head, because either by choice or by lack of understanding of mid-century socio-political dynamics, which ultimately govern the way we live today, your perspective on life doesn't seem to be all that profound.

My last post seemed to have triggered Joe Stalin as well, but as a solid poster, he had the decency not to insult other posters the way you've insulted Merc, which you did in a pretty cowardly and passive-aggressive manner.
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
Space Cowboy said:
Samseau said:
I know on this forum, whores are held in fairly high esteem, but not as high as you might think. The NoFap thread is pretty big, which is really an objection to porn more so than fapping as far as I can tell.

Self-improvement is held most high on this forum. That is something that Hef excelled at. Can those who spend hours of their free time tearing him down say the same?

Bottom line - Hef was a glorified pornographer, he made millions selling pictures of naked women that men bought to masturbate to. The cheap glitz and articles are just sugar-coating, he knew that his product had to look more sanitized in order to be sold at newsstands. Sure it's pretty tame by today's standards, but at the time, Playboy was the most hardcore porn one could get outside of red-light district smut peddlers. By the mid-70s, "harder" porn mags and channels were available, with Playboy paving the way.

So anything but "self-improvement", really, unless you think that fapping to porn is a great channel for self-improvement. To the contrary. And that's looking at his role from a cold, rational perspective, before getting into any moralistic considerations.
 

justforfun19713

Pigeon
Gold Member
Samseau said:
If you ask the average men if they think Hef is cool, they will say he's the man.
Ask the same man if he thinks banging whores is cool, he will say no.

The average man is confused about this, but no one ever said men were purely rational animals.

I know on this forum, whores are held in fairly high esteem, but not as high as you might think. The NoFap thread is pretty big, which is really an objection to porn more so than fapping as far as I can tell.

Regardless, one of my favorite things to do is tear down false prophets and idols, by simply telling things as they are. Hugh was a whoremonger who glorified whores. I think whores are disgusting, why don't you?


Hmm… It has been my experience that loud moral outrage usually means something hide. But, as long as we are in agreement that we can call things for what they are, here is a brief list of whores who were mentioned in quite glowing terms in The Holy Bible.

Rahab – a whore who took in the Israelite spies before Jericho was destroyed. Turns out she ended up being Jesus’ ancestor.

Jael, the chick who quite literally pegged a dude in her tent, in some traditions is thought to have been of loose morals.

Mary Magdalene, widely believed in some traditions to have been a whore

Maybe it’s just me, but it seems time for the purity dudes who are running around the forum calling the rest of us sinners and whoremongers, to find some of that magic Mormon underwear, then go outside and look for the girls in the long flowing dresses carrying Singer sowing machines... Find a nice girl they respect and pump out a little baby Jesus.

As for me? I'm going out to a bar in real life now to see if I can pick up a chick to f*ck tonight. I can almost guarantee I won't be the first guy she's done ever that with, but I'd never judge her to be a whore. As our Lord and Savior (may have) said, 'Let He who is sinless cast the first stone.'

But then that's just how I roll.
 

Space Cowboy

Woodpecker
911 said:
So anything but "self-improvement", really, unless you think that fapping to porn is a great channel for self-improvement. To the contrary. And that's looking at his role from a cold, rational perspective, before getting into any moralistic considerations.

It seems the concept of admiring somebody for building an empire is lost on you. Trump built one on the basis of shady real estate deals that his daddy helped fund but I still admire the effort it took to achieve it. In a similar way, I admire the effort, creativity, and motivation it took for Hef to build his empire.

And, in the end, we're all pornographers on this forum. If some members want to evangelize a lifestyle based on bronze age texts, then so be it-- but it would seem they've long forgotten the original reason Roosh started this great community. It was made great because of the savages who dropped data sheets about banging hynas in Colombia or tearing it up in Manhattan, not because of the e-monks who castigate others from on high.

Cheers!
 

Comte De St. Germain

Crow
Gold Member
911 said:
Comte De St. Germain said:
General Stalin said:
Looks like race threads are RVF's version of "6 degrees of kevin bacon." Can literally turn any topic into a race discussion.

Generally a result of our dearest politics posters getting in over their heads and out of their element.

Easy to trace from where they have accumulated the majority of their reps from(other than meet ups as that's carte blanche could be about anything they discussed in person such as staring at the sun to improve your eyesight, the earth bring flat, or about succubi) and not from where they supposedly posted as well.

Want to know if someone has game? Check their reps. As the forum has evolved further than game due to what some consider more pressing topics of discussion.


This is neither the game forum, nor the politics forum, but both subjects are frequently breached, depending on the topic discussed and the angle of approach. Some guys praised Hefner for featuring black people in his media, fair point. I tried to provide a broader picture of the role of leading pornographers like HH in mid to late 20th century, and the nefarious nature of that cultural change agent, using good sources to support my point, in a cogent and concise manner.
And it was an interesting read. Just something I completely disagree with.
That flew a bit over your head, because either by choice or by lack of understanding of mid-century socio-political dynamics, which ultimately govern the way we live today, your perspective on life doesn't seem to be all that profound.
Neither. I actually love history and social dynamics. That's first and foremost the reason I acclimated to the forum so well. The thing is that I simply don't have the time to discuss these things on the forum nor the energy.

I have to make music, work on my business, study up on a language I've been learning, maintain my friends/help them with their worries, maintain my social circle, keep in touch with acquaintances, and last the thing I have the sparsest time for these days is setup dates in that order.

I log in here mainly to see what my friends have posted and learn something new while giving back where I can. As well as most importantly to me meeting like minded individuals that I'd like to associate with as I have RVF to thank for finding many more like minded people in the world. So I give it my thanks.

It's one thing to discuss these topics in person for me with friends over a cigar and a bottle of cognac(have a few laughs and gain some meaningful insight into myself in the meanwhile as it always relates back to me when discussed in good faith in person so I have something to gain), but it's another entirely to meaninglessly discuss it on an Internet forum as I see no foreseeable gain for me.

Perhaps I'm shortsighted and watching the West fall apart in front of my eyes, or just maybe just maybe I don't have the energy to dedicate to these discussions. You may have more free time to do so. Perhaps you're retired.

I'm not. I have to take my stake in the world while I'm still able. I have no time to sit here and accumulate posts and I don't see it as a worthy endeavor for myself atleast.

Of course I pay attention. It's why I'm here. So feel free to post as I appreciate new insight even if I disagree with it.

It pays to keep my mind open.

My last post seemed to have triggered Joe Stalin as well, but as a solid poster, he had the decency not to insult other posters the way you've insulted Merc, which you did in a pretty cowardly and passive-aggressive manner.

I had a problem with those ideas. I have no business attacking things that won't be fruitful to my way of life. I've had my disagreements with him to say the least in the past over some personal slights, but that has no bearing here in the realm of ideas and their merits.

I only pointed out that there's people who post about politics and get their reps from there while there's those that post and get their reps from game. I just felt you guys were out of your element and trying to win over people that had a completely different worldview than yourself as well as the frequent racial undertones in the thread where I felt it had no business.

Hence my comment that the forum has evolved. There's people here for the base content(game and travel) and there's people here for the politics now. There is a distinction as this isn't a "player's forum" anymore not that it ever was.
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
Space Cowboy said:
911 said:
So anything but "self-improvement", really, unless you think that fapping to porn is a great channel for self-improvement. To the contrary. And that's looking at his role from a cold, rational perspective, before getting into any moralistic considerations.

It seems the concept of admiring somebody for building an empire is lost on you. Trump built one on the basis of shady real estate deals that his daddy helped fund but I still admire the effort it took to achieve it. In a similar way, I admire the effort, creativity, and motivation it took for Hef to build his empire.

And, in the end, we're all pornographers on this forum. If some members want to evangelize a lifestyle based on bronze age texts, then so be it-- but it would seem they've long forgotten the original reason Roosh started this great community. It was made great because of the savages who dropped data sheets about banging hynas in Colombia or tearing it up in Manhattan, not because of the e-monks who castigate others from on high.

Cheers!

Do you also admire people like Soros, who've build bigger empires, banged nice-looking women? I mean look at the guy, a winner we should all admire:

Adriana-Ferreyr-Soros.jpg


I guess you can admire him, given how successful the guy has been, but when one knows the amount of evil and destruction he's unleashed upon the world, that kind of adulation would really be naive and superficial.

Hefner's body of work has also had a considerable effect on culture and society, and a very negative one IMO. The changes he helped unleash were fairly devastating. Next to Alfred Kinsey, he might have been the most influential agent in the normalization and preponderance of porn. Much like other social change agents like Kinsey, Steinem or Gurley Brown, HH's success wasn't that organic, he got a lot of support along the way.

This community and others started out as a way to deal with the social dysfunctionalities that cultural change agents like Hefner have injected into our culture. I think it's important to point this out, particularly to younger guys who have grown up with and completely internalized porn.
 

Space Cowboy

Woodpecker
911 said:
Do you also admire people like Soros, who've build bigger empires, banged nice-looking women? I mean look at the guy, a winner we should all admire:

I think it's telling that you immediately bring up Soros. I think a common complaint a lot of members I've talked with in real life have brought up is that there are members who dominate the narrative but are stuck in a bubble with one eye on Breitbart and another on Zero Hedge. If that's what turns your crank, I've got no real problem with that. Hopefully, however, you can see where some of us are coming from. Anyway, we'll be out lifting, swooping, and making money. You can save Western civilization, although pounding out condescending diatribes on the keyboard and refusing to get out into the real word among your fellow men isn't the most likely way we'll take this country back.

I'm off to go read.

Cheers!
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
Comte De St. Germain said:
...

I had a problem with those ideas. I have no business attacking things that won't be fruitful to my way of life. I've had my disagreements with him to say the least in the past over some personal slights, but that has no bearing here in the realm of ideas and their merits.

Merc has made good contributions to the no-fap thread (ironic since that all started with Hugh and Alfred...), which might have been fruitful to your way of life and that of many others in the forum. That's one of the reasons he's received reps from many solid RVFers. You could at least give him credit for this instead of attacking him.


I only pointed out that there's people who post about politics and get their reps from there while there's those that post and get their reps from game. I just felt you guys were out of your element and trying to win over people that had a completely different worldview than yourself as well as the frequent racial undertones in the thread where I felt it had no business.

You say above that you're an open-minded reader, as such, you might want to consider the input of people who have a different viewpoint, particularly if that viewpoint is supported with solid research. Do you see the links between Hefner and Kinsey, and the parallels between his legacy, and that of Helen Gurley Brown?

You guys have basically dismissed all of this as "evangelization based on bronze age texts". I think it's a pretty superficial take that shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the society we live in.
 

CynicalContrarian

Owl
Gold Member
Don't put chicks on pedestals.
Don't put hedonistic Hollywood hacks on pedestals.

You can be inspired. Just best not to admire, when you're not privy to the whole sorry situation.
 

Cobra

Hummingbird
Gold Member
This thread hasn't reached a climax yet and hasn't completely derailed yet. I appreciate this.

Sadly, I can't comment much more tonight but will try to tomorrow.

I'll leave this thought in the interim: when did leveraging lifestyle and using money to get access to talent become "non game?" When ever did that become paying for whores? When did these women become whores? There seems to be a lot of conjecture here and it's getting to the point of laughable.

Let's take a simple example: if a schmoe bangs Marilyn Monroe, he's a player and she's a hot girl, but Hef bangs her and she's a whore; and Hef is scum? :laugh:
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
Space Cowboy said:
911 said:
Do you also admire people like Soros, who've build bigger empires, banged nice-looking women? I mean look at the guy, a winner we should all admire:

I think it's telling that you immediately bring up Soros. I think a common complaint a lot of members I've talked with in real life have brought up is that there are members who dominate the narrative but are stuck in a bubble with one eye on Breitbart and another on Zero Hedge. If that's what turns your crank, I've got no real problem with that. Hopefully, however, you can see where some of us are coming from. Anyway, we'll be out lifting, swooping, and making money. You can save Western civilization, although pounding out condescending diatribes on the keyboard and refusing to get out into the real word among your fellow men isn't the most likely way we'll take this country back.

I'm off to go read.

Cheers!

straw-man.png


As if one can't post about Soros, read Zero Hedge and other news sources and still have a fairly functional personal and professional life.

What are you reading? :)
 

Comte De St. Germain

Crow
Gold Member
911 said:
Comte De St. Germain said:
...

I had a problem with those ideas. I have no business attacking things that won't be fruitful to my way of life. I've had my disagreements with him to say the least in the past over some personal slights, but that has no bearing here in the realm of ideas and their merits.

Merc has made good contributions to the no-fap thread, which might have been fruitful to your way of life and that of many others in the forum (and it all started with Hugh and Alfred...) That's one of the reasons he's received reps from many solid RVFers. You could at least give him credit for this instead of attacking him.

I don't read his posts unless they're in response to me. I don't care about nofap other than if I can achieve it at some point or another. And I don't want to give credit to someone I personally dislike and have no reason to bring up any further.

It's as simple as that.

I only pointed out that there's people who post about politics and get their reps from there while there's those that post and get their reps from game. I just felt you guys were out of your element and trying to win over people that had a completely different worldview than yourself as well as the frequent racial undertones in the thread where I felt it had no business.

You say above that you're an open-minded reader, as such, you might want to consider the input of people who have a different viewpoint, particularly if that viewpoint is supported with solid research. Do you see the links between Hefner and Kinsey, and the parallels between his legacy, and that of Helen Gurley Brown?

You guys have basically dismissed all of this as "evangelization based on bronze age texts". I think it's a pretty superficial take that shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the society we live in.

I made my point and have nothing more to add. I'm not going to go into depth as to why I disagree as this entire thread has taken about an hour more of my time than I'd rather it have.

But good day and feel free to believe what you believe. Hopefully you've convinced some bystanders of your point of view even if you haven't got me to agree.

Though of course I'm of the opinion that I'm right and none have.
 

CaptainS

Hummingbird
Samseau said:
If you ask the average men if they think Hef is cool, they will say he's the man.
Ask the same man if he thinks banging whores is cool, he will say no.

Hugh was a whoremonger who glorified whores. I think whores are disgusting, why don't you?

I think the fundamental problem is that most men bought into the Playboy myth that projected an image of Hef as the ultimate player who had women throwing themselves at him for no other reason than he was Hef.

That's a difficult illusion to shake off.
 
911 said:
Space Cowboy said:
911 said:
Do you also admire people like Soros, who've build bigger empires, banged nice-looking women? I mean look at the guy, a winner we should all admire:

I think it's telling that you immediately bring up Soros. I think a common complaint a lot of members I've talked with in real life have brought up is that there are members who dominate the narrative but are stuck in a bubble with one eye on Breitbart and another on Zero Hedge. If that's what turns your crank, I've got no real problem with that. Hopefully, however, you can see where some of us are coming from. Anyway, we'll be out lifting, swooping, and making money. You can save Western civilization, although pounding out condescending diatribes on the keyboard and refusing to get out into the real word among your fellow men isn't the most likely way we'll take this country back.

I'm off to go read.

Cheers!

Hey 911

 

Sherman

Ostrich
It's probably too late for this, but there are really two threads here. It would be useful to discuss Hefner to tease out what men could learn from his style, which would go into the Game Forum. The other issue is that there are men who believer Hefner has had a negative influence on culture. This would go in the Politics Forum. They are both legitimate issues, but discussing them together is creating miscommunication and conflict.
 
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