I don't understand people who say kids "need" preschool.

Mac

Pigeon
Woman
Both of my grandmothers were teachers, as was my mother before immigrating to the states.

1. Preschool is crucial to language and social development of children between 2.5 yrs to 5 yrs because at this age they learn best from their peers.

2. Preschool also critical for identifying children with potential learning disabilities (dyslexia) and allowing them to get extra help that they need before long term problems occur.

3. Protects young kids from neglect, abuse and, hunger.
Unfortunately preschool is so different now. Social distancing and masks are restricting development. Forcing children to behave like this is abuse
 

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Jessie

Sparrow
Woman
Darling, this isn’t about God or religion and I am not writing to agree or disagree. The question was why do some parents feel preschool is necessary and some don’t. I am just turning to shed light the why’s and how’s of a government sponsored early education system.
Everything is about God and religion. There is no such thing as neutrality. Either you are for Him or against Him, and all things are meant to be done for His glory. If you go against His way for teaching your children in favor of a way that is promoted by a wicked world, then so be it. I can only hope your eyes are opened to the truth. Your explanations may seem good to you, but they are not valid reasons to abandon your role to someone else. :)
 

LAMommy

Pigeon
Woman
Everything is about God and religion. There is no such thing as neutrality. Either you are for Him or against Him, and all things are meant to be done for His glory. If you go against His way for teaching your children in favor of a way that is promoted by a wicked world, then so be it. I can only hope your eyes are opened to the truth. :)
It’s not the Christian (Orthodox ) way to hold others to ours standard. Everyone is worthy of love and respect whether they believe or not.
 

Luna Novem

Kingfisher
Woman
Yep. When my kids were in elementary school, no one even noticed one of them is literally legally blind. She "cheated" on the eye test thinking it was a regular kind of test, but she couldn't see the board! When they do spot something, their answer to everything is some sort of crutch, including but not limited to, various electronic crutches, IEPs and meds. Not helpful at all. Their meddling is more often harmful than helpful, and the few cases of genuine neglect are often not noticed at all.

Life isn't perfect and it sure as hell won't be improved with government meddling and surveillance via compulsory schooling.
Agree. I started public school as somewhat of a golden child. I was declared to be "gifted and talented". I skipped a grade, but even after skipping, was still put in the gifted classes and the advanced levels of reading, etc. I ended up a high school dropout. My parents kept all my progress reports, and I've read them as an adult. Going back to the age of six, I had comments saying things along the lines of, "doesn't work up to her potential"; "assignments missing"'; "low effort", etc. The adults questioned how I could be so bright and yet be what appeared to be unmotivated/lazy/rebellious. It was not until my mid-30's that I realized without a shadow of a doubt that I am on the autism spectrum. Had someone recognized this during my school years, my teachers would have taken a very different approach with me. I've had to learn to be kind to myself, and realize that I'm not a "regular" adult screwing up all the time, but rather, I'm an autistic adult doing pretty darn well.

Then again, maybe I got lucky, because you're right: drugs and other unhelpful things are so frequently their answer.

Now I homeschool my own children. I see many of my traits in my youngest child, but I have the ability to tailor her education to both her skills and her weaknesses. She is doing amazingly well and loves school. I have her in a classical curriculum that truly challenges her and doesn't bore her to tears.
 

Luna Novem

Kingfisher
Woman
Her close vision is OK and she never said anything. She had other issues to where we thought she was just being dopey, and she thought it was normal. She has always managed to compensate rather well too, so easily missed in the day to day. But I feel like your question is on the passive-aggressive end to prove something so I don't think I owe much more of an explanation than that.
You aren't the only mama who's missed diagnoses. My second eldest has a disease called eosinophilic esophagitis that didn't get diagnosed until she was nine. Heck, a dear friend of mine had a little guy with cancer; the doctors themselves misdiagnosed him for an entire year. You're definitely not alone.
 

muhtea

Robin
Woman
Agree. I started public school as somewhat of a golden child. I was declared to be "gifted and talented". I skipped a grade, but even after skipping, was still put in the gifted classes and the advanced levels of reading, etc. I ended up a high school dropout. My parents kept all my progress reports, and I've read them as an adult. Going back to the age of six, I had comments saying things along the lines of, "doesn't work up to her potential"; "assignments missing"'; "low effort", etc. The adults questioned how I could be so bright and yet be what appeared to be unmotivated/lazy/rebellious. It was not until my mid-30's that I realized without a shadow of a doubt that I am on the autism spectrum. Had someone recognized this during my school years, my teachers would have taken a very different approach with me. I've had to learn to be kind to myself, and realize that I'm not a "regular" adult screwing up all the time, but rather, I'm an autistic adult doing pretty darn well.

Then again, maybe I got lucky, because you're right: drugs and other unhelpful things are so frequently their answer.

Now I homeschool my own children. I see many of my traits in my youngest child, but I have the ability to tailor her education to both her skills and her weaknesses. She is doing amazingly well and loves school. I have her in a classical curriculum that truly challenges her and doesn't bore her to tears.
That sounds very much like my eldest referenced earlier. Tests really well but school is a waste of time so she dropped out. Now the GED test center is closed. :rolleyes: That would be a piece of cake for her. I've no doubt she is on the autism spectrum, fairly obvious since she was around 2 years old, maybe even before that.

It's amazing how much better she does working on her own than in a classroom. At school she failed classes that should have been easy. It made her feel like she was stupid - I had to tell her to stop saying "I'm stupid" because it's not true!

It has to be remembered that teachers aren't half as smart as they fancy themselves or as we're meant to believe. Social workers are even worse. Dumb as a box of rock just administering a system that doesn't help if you have a real problem. When they appear to work it's more often than not a case of things that would have fixed themselves anyway, like those leg braces for bow legs they used to put on kids.

I'm probably on the spectrum too but I don't care to get tested - not sure what the benefit of that would be, will they give me money? lol I have no doubt you are doing a better job homeschooling your children than any school would do.

P.S. I am definitely not kicking myself for missing the eyesight issue for a while. Pretty small potatoes in the big picture.
 

Luna Novem

Kingfisher
Woman
That sounds very much like my eldest referenced earlier. Tests really well but school is a waste of time so she dropped out. Now the GED test center is closed. :rolleyes: That would be a piece of cake for her. I've no doubt she is on the autism spectrum, fairly obvious since she was around 2 years old, maybe even before that.

It's amazing how much better she does working on her own than in a classroom. At school she failed classes that should have been easy. It made her feel like she was stupid - I had to tell her to stop saying "I'm stupid" because it's not true!

It has to be remembered that teachers aren't half as smart as they fancy themselves or as we're meant to believe. Social workers are even worse. Dumb as a box of rock just administering a system that doesn't help if you have a real problem. When they appear to work it's more often than not a case of things that would have fixed themselves anyway, like those leg braces for bow legs they used to put on kids.

I'm probably on the spectrum too but I don't care to get tested - not sure what the benefit of that would be, will they give me money? lol I have no doubt you are doing a better job homeschooling your children than any school would do.

P.S. I am definitely not kicking myself for missing the eyesight issue for a while. Pretty small potatoes in the big picture.
It's ridiculously hard to get tested as an adult. You'd almost certainly need to pay out of pocket, in the neighborhood of two grand. I started the process when I lived on the other side of my state; I met with a psychologist who specializes in autism, and then a neuropsychologist. It was kind of funny, actually; she'd ask me a question during the interview, I'd get halfway through my response, and kind of falter, and she'd fill in the rest for me, and I'd practically scream, "YES!! No one else understands!!" LOL. She had me scheduled for the official testing process, but when we learned my insurance wouldn't cover it, I canceled. I did eventually take a free adult screening through an autism center. You had to score in the neighborhood of 60 for them to say, "Yeeeaaahh... it's highly likely you're on the spectrum... we'd be happy to recommend further resources for you." I doubled the score. I'd honestly love to get an official diagnosis. Self-diagnosis is highly respected within the community, but I'd like to have that vindication for any doubters.

Yep, my daughter was around 18 months when I first thought she might be autistic. This was about a year prior to me recognizing it in myself. Her symptoms were more classic (i.e. she stims more obviously than I do; she struggled tremendously with toilet training; she has more social anxiety, etc.) I "know" how to act socially, but it's exactly that... an act. I find it draining. My symptoms are more classic "Asperger's" (strange interests; memorization of probably 150+ birthdays; extreme introversion due to lack of commonality with most folks (one reason I like this forum; it's so clearly full of bright ladies!); spatial difficulties, among others.)

You're so correct about teachers and social workers. I won't argue that there are dedicated, intelligent teachers, but they can be few and far between; and even more so if we're talking about a bright kiddo. Your gal is most likely brighter than 90% of the authority figures who'd be in charge of her at a public school. She's very fortunate that you brought her home. And I have zero doubts she'd fly through the GED. :)
 

LAMommy

Pigeon
Woman
Please stop. This is pointless. If I felt the need to delete it, kindly refrain from summarizing in your own erroneous way (still coming off passive-aggressive) what I felt the need to remove. Thank you. You can delete your comment and I'll delete this one, otherwise that's enough now.

EDIT: The point is, we spotted it after the school missed it, once she was out of school. It's also easier to spot things when your kid is with you all day. Stop trying to make this sound like some sort of poor parenting on my part.
I will not delete my comments, to do so would be disrespectful to other forum members.

I never implied that you were a bad parent and I don’t think you original comment implied any intentional wrong doing on your part. I asked what happened because I was curious and concerned for a fellow visually impaired child.
 

muhtea

Robin
Woman
It's ridiculously hard to get tested as an adult. You'd almost certainly need to pay out of pocket, in the neighborhood of two grand. I started the process when I lived on the other side of my state; I met with a psychologist who specializes in autism, and then a neuropsychologist. It was kind of funny, actually; she'd ask me a question during the interview, I'd get halfway through my response, and kind of falter, and she'd fill in the rest for me, and I'd practically scream, "YES!! No one else understands!!" LOL. She had me scheduled for the official testing process, but when we learned my insurance wouldn't cover it, I canceled. I did eventually take a free adult screening through an autism center. You had to score in the neighborhood of 60 for them to say, "Yeeeaaahh... it's highly likely you're on the spectrum... we'd be happy to recommend further resources for you." I doubled the score. I'd honestly love to get an official diagnosis. Self-diagnosis is highly respected within the community, but I'd like to have that vindication for any doubters.

Yep, my daughter was around 18 months when I first thought she might be autistic. This was about a year prior to me recognizing it in myself. Her symptoms were more classic (i.e. she stims more obviously than I do; she struggled tremendously with toilet training; she has more social anxiety, etc.) I "know" how to act socially, but it's exactly that... an act. I find it draining. My symptoms are more classic "Asperger's" (strange interests; memorization of probably 150+ birthdays; extreme introversion due to lack of commonality with most folks (one reason I like this forum; it's so clearly full of bright ladies!); spatial difficulties, among others.)

You're so correct about teachers and social workers. I won't argue that there are dedicated, intelligent teachers, but they can be few and far between; and even more so if we're talking about a bright kiddo. Your gal is most likely brighter than 90% of the authority figures who'd be in charge of her at a public school. She's very fortunate that you brought her home. And I have zero doubts she'd fly through the GED. :)
The way I look at it, whether or not I meet the criteria for diagnosis isn't important. I don't need to justify myself to people - either they like me or they don't. I don't think I'm super sperg or anything, but mildly so. Certainly no point in spending a load of money to have someone else who I mostly don't care for tell me I'm this or that lol.
 

jarlo

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Both of my grandmothers were teachers, as was my mother before immigrating to the states.

1. Preschool is crucial to language and social development of children between 2.5 yrs to 5 yrs because at this age they learn best from their peers.

2. Preschool also critical for identifying children with potential learning disabilities (dyslexia) and allowing them to get extra help that they need before long term problems occur.

3. Protects young kids from neglect, abuse and, hunger.
What you are correctly noting, and what some people in this thread are missing, is that there are many situations where government-funded preschool could be good for kids:
  • Physically abusive parents
  • Single mother teetering on destitution
  • Detached parents who aren't invested in their kids' education/health
Unfortunately, there are many parents who fit in those categories. However, in the last ten to twenty years, public education in Western countries has gotten much worse on moral education. So, there are now fewer children for whom the benefits of preschool outweigh the costs of preschool.

Additionally, I would imagine that children raised by all the mothers on this forum are much better off at home than at preschool. However, I think some are taking any explanation of the benefits of preschool as a personal affront to themselves.

I'm completely against mandatory preschool, but I think there's an argument to be made for the option of government provided preschool.
 

muhtea

Robin
Woman
All those "helping" agencies are well known to ignore real problems and feed off people who aren't really a problem. Unless you've seen it for yourself, you don't know. It's so rare they help anyone who really needs it and all too common that they traumatize families who should have been left alone. The real problem is a lack of societal cohesion - we don't live in a society. In a more homogenous and moral society people looked after each other without the need for a lot of big daddy government interference.
 

jarlo

Woodpecker
Orthodox
All those "helping" agencies are well known to ignore real problems and feed off people who aren't really a problem. Unless you've seen it for yourself, you don't know. It's so rare they help anyone who really needs it and all too common that they traumatize families who should have been left alone. The real problem is a lack of societal cohesion - we don't live in a society. In a more homogenous and moral society people looked after each other without the need for a lot of big daddy government interference.
I agree with you. I think almost all of these agencies have done more bad than good, and I would not trust some Marxist social worker with the intelligence of a goldfish to monitor whether I'm correctly parenting my kid.

However, I still think there exist a significant set of children for whom a government-funded preschool is much better than their next best option, e.g. the children of the White family in The Wild and Wonderful Whites of West Virginia. That doesn't alone justify mandatory, or even government-funded, preschool, but it's something which should be considered.
 

muhtea

Robin
Woman
I agree with you. I think almost all of these agencies have done more bad than good, and I would not trust some Marxist social worker with the intelligence of a goldfish to monitor whether I'm correctly parenting my kid.

However, I still think there exist a significant set of children for whom a government-funded preschool is much better than their next best option, e.g. the children of the White family in The Wild and Wonderful Whites of West Virginia. That doesn't alone justify mandatory, or even government-funded, preschool, but it's something which should be considered.
Again, I don't think there is a "significant set" of children like the example you provided. The problem is, if the school isn't mandatory, would those who really could benefit from it the ones who will send their kids? Again again, more harm done than good in the end. The problem with making an "option" where government is concerned is that it soon becomes mandatory for all. If it's not government-funded, i.e. local and parent run, again, those few extreme cases are not likely to be served by that either.

As I said, a good many of these "helpers" are mostly interested in appearing helpful but are dumb and lazy. They would rather harass OK people than deal with actual problem people. And even in the latter case, if they do remove children, they're often put into an even worse situation than they were already in, including being trafficked. It's rotten. In an ideal world it might have some use, but in the real world it's evil.
 

Jessie

Sparrow
Woman
What you are correctly noting, and what some people in this thread are missing, is that there are many situations where government-funded preschool could be good for kids:
  • Physically abusive parents
  • Single mother teetering on destitution
  • Detached parents who aren't invested in their kids' education/health
Unfortunately, there are many parents who fit in those categories. However, in the last ten to twenty years, public education in Western countries has gotten much worse on moral education. So, there are now fewer children for whom the benefits of preschool outweigh the costs of preschool.

Additionally, I would imagine that children raised by all the mothers on this forum are much better off at home than at preschool. However, I think some are taking any explanation of the benefits of preschool as a personal affront to themselves.

I'm completely against mandatory preschool, but I think there's an argument to be made for the option of government provided preschool.

I am against government schools in general. I don’t think the government should have any role in schooling. It wasn’t meant to be that way in our country, either. The communities gathered together and those who wanted to participate pooled their resources, created a school board, and hired a teacher. The teacher conformed to the values and needs of the community. Or parents homeschooled or apprenticed their children out, but it was always up to the parent. Now, the government thinks it knows best. As usual, they see a small problem, create a cure that’s worse than the disease and force everyone to partake. Even our “opting out” is subject to government interference in all but a handful of states. There are always going to be problem people and there will always be children who fall through the cracks. There will always be abusive parents, single mothers, and parents who aren’t invested in their kids’ education. It is sad, and it is a result of a sin-cursed world. The answer to this is not to create government programs that poison everyone. It’s to share the gospel, pray, and to reach out and serve people in our community ourselves, with the help of the churches.
 

Mrs.DanielH

Robin
Woman
Orthodox
I agree that children don't need to go to preschool. My brother and I attended daycare/preschool since birth because my mom worked there! I think this was a very unique situation that worked out for us because our mom was always available to us. My brother and I were both gifted students so we didn't "need" preschool. I actually remember my last year of preschool and although there was stuctured learning, it was mostly just play oriented with teachers as supervisors. I think that is appropriate. In the future i hope to be a sahm. Even though my brother and I went to preschool, I truly believe most of our learning was done at home. My mom would sit us on the counter with her when she baked and we learned math and science concepts from measuring ingredients. She read us books and sang songs with us. Really what children need are competent parents who will give them attention instead of sit them in front of a computer or TV all day.
I have to reiterate what Jessie said that God instructed parents to be the primary educators of their children. The church fathers and saints testify to this. Especially when it comes to religion. Going to church will not make your child a christian. You have to teach them about it at home and live a christian life at home.
 

dragonfire00

Robin
Woman
I agree children don't need preschool and can learn at home. I do have one of my kids in a part time preschool because- hear me out- for socialization. We just moved and because of the Covid nonsense people are getting weird about playdates and forming "pods" (a politically correct work for cliques if we're honest) and I won't be forced to change my habits because of parents drinking the koolaid. She is thriving and loves going and playing with children, she's also learning a language I can't teach her. The preschool is not a traditional preschool it is a method that I prefer better (don't want to be too specific due to possible doxxing). Prior to preschool for socialization I did a bunch of mommy and me classes with her and did playdates, but tons of the classes I did went virtual (which is nonsense, I'm not paying for my kid to have screen time lol). The kids at the preschool don't have to socially distance or wear masks either.


Oregon just passed a measure for increased taxes to do "universal preschool' which we all know means big government mommy daddy for kids. I'm sure the schools will be garbage (if this actually happens since the West Coast is famous for increasing taxes and then the money "disappearing") and mostly for single moms and low income families, parents who are drug addicts etc.

 
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