I Got Married

Coja Petrus Uscan

Hummingbird
Gold Member
May this be the first of many marriage announcements in this thread.

Sacrament-of-Matrimony-2.jpg
 
Redbeard, CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!! You are truly a great role model for the forum. :)

A good hispanic woman is a treasure to be loved and respected. Beguiling natural beauty that does not require too much makeup, feisty personality, willingly does housework, likes to cook and is a good cook, playfully and earnestly sexual, values God and her faith, wants to please her man, and loves children & wants to bear them.
 
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redbeard

Hummingbird
Gold Member
I've got several questions, no worries if you don't want to answer all of them.

1. What did your dating/courtship look like in terms of what you did on your dates, and how often you would meet or talk?
At the beginning of our relationship, we texted once or twice a day. By the end, we talked on the phone once or twice a day.

For dates, we did a ton of stuff. Restaurants, coffee shops, outdoor activities, music performances, even just sitting on a blanket in the park and skimming a book together. Lots of church events. Not just at our parish, but in the whole diocese. These provided us with wholesome ways to have chaperones and meet at a common location.

A general rule of thumb is you should not be alone with your girl. I made The Wholesome Date Idea Thread if you're struggling with figuring out what to do.
2. What sort of physical boundaries did you set prior to marriage?
Long story short. We started dating and had hard, but unspoken, boundaries. No touching for the first 2-3 months, save for a hug for hello & goodbyes. After we got comfortable with each other, we started spending time together in my apartment and placed ourselves in near occasions of sin. We did not have sex, but we were not responsible. It was a difficult time.

I went to confession and my priest did not hesitate to give me due correction. He advised me to read a short book called Clean Love in Courtship (link) which really showed me how/what/where/when to court. After that we kept a limit at kissing, but no making out. Touching (holding hands, putting my arm around her) was allowed, but not in a way that would inspire desire.

We also took periods of "abstinence" from kissing, just to keep our passions in check. First during Lent and second during the month leading up to our wedding. It was a great way for us to grow spiritually and avoid lust.

If I could do it again, I would not kiss before marriage. There is nothing the kiss accomplishes that a friendly hug can't.

If you read The 5 Love Languages, there are 5 different ways to show affection: words of affirmation, acts of service, quality time, giving gifts, and physical touch. One of the goals of courtship & engagement should be to figure out how to show affection without using physical touch.

Many couples these days depend completely on physical touch to show affection, and it's a smart idea to figure out how to build your relationship without it. Believe it or not, married couples do not have sex 24/7. There are periods of abstinence due to NFP, postpartum, or even just taking a break for spiritual reasons. In times like those, it's necessary to know how to appreciate your spouse without physical touch.
3. How early along did you meet each other's families? Did anything about her family weigh positively in deciding to marry her?
After about 3 months we met each other's families. I wish we had done it sooner but we had no idea what we were doing. Truth be told, I didn't get to know them as well as I would've liked before we got engaged. I was too busy trying to figure out my relationship with their daughter to spend time with them.

However now that I know them, I'm glad to have them in the family. They're pleasant people who want the best for their daughter and appreciate the heck out of me. They're not of the faith, but they have two qualities that are mission critical:
  1. I could spend time with both of them individually.
  2. I could picture them taking care of our children.
4. Do you have any thoughts on how much time one ought to spend in different stages of courtship/engagement?
I think 6 months of courting and 6 months of engagement is a solid rule of thumb. Few notes on that.

First, check with your diocese to see what the engagement requirements are. Most dioceses require you to be engaged for x amount of months before getting married. Don't get blind-sided by this rule.

Next, it depends on what your plans are for the wedding itself. If it's going to be a large event, you'll want more time to plan it. This is doubly true if you're doing all the planning yourself. Without a wedding planner, or family members who will take care of it for you, the event planning can easily feel like a full time job.

Lastly, it really depends on how well you know each other. My wife and I were able to move fast because we spent a ton of time together. And on our dates, we weren't having sex, so we had a ton of time to really get to know each other. After 3 months of dating, it felt like I knew her for years.
5. How did you come to the faith, and where were you coming from (e.g. Protestant/agnostic/non binary Muslim Scientologist)?
Much shorter answer here. I was raised Catholic and fell away from the faith as a kid. I had a few years of loose protestantism, then came back to the Church earlier last year.
 

Augustus_Principe

Woodpecker
First of all, congratulations! I am so happy that finally, a member of this forum has gotten married under the guidelines of Catholic Courtship. Your story is truly an inspiration and one that is needed for the rest of us. It is truly a white-pill to see this before going to bed. You have given great responses to the questions so far and as of now, what I was going to ask has been answered, though I may come back and ask something if it pops up in my head after I get some sleep. This information will be invaluable. I hope to see more stories like this as time goes on.

One point that stood out was from your OP:

"I wish I had some earth-shattering tips to share about how to meet a nice church girl. I don't. The truth is that we met exactly as Roosh describes in his recent article Do You Deserve A Good Woman: "

I laughed when I read this because I had written a long and perhaps confused reply in the Women General thread titled "Do you Deserve A Good Woman" a few days back that Roosh posted . I said to myself as I read this thread, "So it REALLY does work that way huh?" :laughter:. Again, this gives me hope and makes things to me more clear as I continue to grow and develop my spiritual life and forget about my past life. I also see you only used "basic game" ie being a regular masculine male to initiate the convo and the rest fell into place. This confirms what I thought about what would be needed in order to get started with talking to a female one is interested in. You also confirm what a friend of mine told me about being in a city vs rural. I mentioned this before in a different thread, but St. Louis has a huge catholic community. My friend told me that a problem in the dioceses is that there are more single women than men. This is NOT the case in the suburb that I live in, and it seems most people in this forum do not have that "problem" either where they live. Again, this now really makes me consider moving from where I currently am, to a more Catholic-centered city before truly giving up looking for a woman in the U.S.A.

Congratulations again, and may God Bless your marriage!
 

Beaker

Robin
At the beginning of our relationship, we texted once or twice a day. By the end, we talked on the phone once or twice a day.

For dates, we did a ton of stuff. Restaurants, coffee shops, outdoor activities, music performances, even just sitting on a blanket in the park and skimming a book together. Lots of church events. Not just at our parish, but in the whole diocese. These provided us with wholesome ways to have chaperones and meet at a common location.

A general rule of thumb is you should not be alone with your girl. I made The Wholesome Date Idea Thread if you're struggling with figuring out what to do.

That sounds really tough. If you're not a guy that enjoys doing those things a long courtship sounds hellish, probably why they used to arrange marriages.

There has to be another way, like if you feel she's marriage material and she's prescreened you propose faster. Doing all those things with a fiancée sounds much better than with someone who could just be a huge waste of time.

You got through it though, wish you a long and happy marriage.
 

redbeard

Hummingbird
Gold Member
That sounds really tough. If you're not a guy that enjoys doing those things a long courtship sounds hellish, probably why they used to arrange marriages.

There has to be another way, like if you feel she's marriage material and she's prescreened you propose faster. Doing all those things with a fiancée sounds much better than with someone who could just be a huge waste of time.

You got through it though, wish you a long and happy marriage.
If you had told me two years ago that I'd be spending so much time with one woman, and not having sex, I wouldn't have believed you. However when you meet the right one, spending time with her is not a chore. Sounds like something a BETA MALE! would say, but it's true.

Sure, if we lived in a homogenous village where everyone was Catholic, and our parents knew each other, it's possible we could have had a shorter engagement. Unfortunately this is 2020, and we have to deal with the negative aspects of living in the American Melting Pot, i.e. sorting through women trying to find the right match.
 

redbeard

Hummingbird
Gold Member
One point that stood out was from your OP:

"I wish I had some earth-shattering tips to share about how to meet a nice church girl. I don't. The truth is that we met exactly as Roosh describes in his recent article Do You Deserve A Good Woman: "

I laughed when I read this because I had written a long and perhaps confused reply in the Women General thread titled "Do you Deserve A Good Woman" a few days back that Roosh posted . I said to myself as I read this thread, "So it REALLY does work that way huh?" :laughter:. Again, this gives me hope and makes things to me more clear as I continue to grow and develop my spiritual life and forget about my past life. I also see you only used "basic game" ie being a regular masculine male to initiate the convo and the rest fell into place. This confirms what I thought about what would be needed in order to get started with talking to a female one is interested in.
I remember hearing this advice from Roosh at the live event last year. He advised that "the best way to find a Godly woman is to become the Godliest man you can be," and hinted at the "falling out of thin air" theory. I thought he was crazy.

For a short time after that event, I was still "seeking" for a wife. I'd go to Mass and check out who was sitting in the pews...try to bump into girls on my way out...and of course it didn't work. It took away from my prayers and made me distracted.

One Sunday I caught myself doing so and it suddenly hit me how stupid I was behaving. I was taking away from the best part of the week by trying to quench my lust for a spouse. I can't remember what exactly happened, but in that moment I gave up on finding a wife. I told God that if He wanted me to be single, I'd be single. Maybe I squandered my chance at marriage by wasting so many years fornicating. Or maybe He wanted me to be single because marriage would take away from some great mission I would have to focus on. Either way, "Thy will be done."

A few weeks later I met my future wife...

This isn't to say that you can eat pizza for every meal, play video games for 7 hours a day, and fall into marriage. However I do think that as men of action, it's in our nature to DO SOMETHING to find a spouse. We're problem solvers by design, which helps in the work place, but might not be the best trait to have when looking for a wife. Patience really is key here.
You also confirm what a friend of mine told me about being in a city vs rural. I mentioned this before in a different thread, but St. Louis has a huge catholic community. My friend told me that a problem in the dioceses is that there are more single women than men. This is NOT the case in the suburb that I live in, and it seems most people in this forum do not have that "problem" either where they live. Again, this now really makes me consider moving from where I currently am, to a more Catholic-centered city before truly giving up looking for a woman in the U.S.A.

Congratulations again, and may God Bless your marriage!
You have to remember that Godly women aren't immune to the worldly problems we face in our day-to-day. They need jobs too, so many of them flock to the big cities in order to find work. Additionally, most are still going to university, and many of those schools are near big cities. This obviously isn't ideal, to have young women going out on their own to the cities, but we play the hand we're dealt.

If you're considering taking a job somewhere definitely check out how active the diocese is. I kind of fell into a super engaged one, so I don't have first hand experience at choosing one. But if I was to do it again, I'd definitely look into how many events the diocese is organizing themselves. That's usually a good measure of how social the parishes themselves will be.
 

Elipe

Pelican
Great question, and one I've thought about a lot over the past year.

The answer is yes, but not in the sense that I used "techniques" or "canned routines." I didn't try to "dread game" her, I didn't approach 12 dozen girls to meet her, and I didn't tailor my stories to licit a specific response from her. Overall, I behaved like myself.

The only "game" I used is that I started the initial conversation with her, and after it went well, I asked her out for coffee. I told her where and when to meet me. That was about the extent of the "game" I used. Even though I did "make a move," it still feels like she fell out of thin air and into my life.
This has been my experience with my wife too. They say Game is applied charisma, but I think it would also work to call it applied courage. Basically, don't be a pussy around women, and act like you're in the leader position, not the follower position.

The standard of masculinity is so low nowadays that just showing up puts you ahead of 50% of your competition. the other 40% is not stammering, standing up straight, leading the conversation, making firm decisions quickly (e.g. when the girl asks what you'd like to do for dinner, make a firm decision almost right away, don't waste your time trying to turn the question back on her or act uncertain).

The canned stuff worked for getting a quick lay, but the broader principle of Game is that women want men that are... men, not stuttering emotional wrecks that doubt themselves so much that it takes a whole day of talking themselves up for them to just work up the courage to ask a girl out to coffee.
 

Beaker

Robin
If you had told me two years ago that I'd be spending so much time with one woman, and not having sex, I wouldn't have believed you. However when you meet the right one, spending time with her is not a chore. Sounds like something a BETA MALE! would say, but it's true.

Sure, if we lived in a homogenous village where everyone was Catholic, and our parents knew each other, it's possible we could have had a shorter engagement. Unfortunately this is 2020, and we have to deal with the negative aspects of living in the American Melting Pot, i.e. sorting through women trying to find the right match.

Women enjoy the tension and uncertainty though, so what kind of woman would be attracted to a man that she knows is in the bag?

It's so counterintuitive to my experiences with women, I'm having a hard time getting my head around it.
 

Beaker

Robin
Fixed that for you.
To that level is extremely rare, faith to the ability to overcome her instincts as a woman. That's what nuns have, and even then they're under a hierarchy of priests, and not many have that calling.

I know of girls of Christian families that have their father filter in the candidates, but it's not the girl's faith suppressing the urge to find her own partner, but her father's working in her best interest or perhaps that of the family, I'm not sure. In your case this is a woman whose parents are not Christian.
 

Beaker

Robin
I’m thinking that getting vetted by her father after the initial spark is the surest way. There’s more to trust in a man’s faith, and him looking after his daughter. Then you can propose after you’re comfortable with her family.

Nothing would reassure me more than a tough father that makes it difficult. She would then not see you as being in the bag, and be attracted by the uncertainty.
 
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