I hate the corporate world, especially in IT

Onto said:
I too am an IT consultant, and the job pretty much sucks. Every once in a while you get a good gig, but there's always some negative.

For me, the worst is the racism I've endured from Indians. They come here and build a nation within a nation and discriminate against everyone that is on the same level as them or below them, while kissing ass and often outright lying to their superiors.

Infosys is finally, after 20+ years, starting to get sued for racism.

At first I couldn't understand why this was until I learned more about their culture and their caste system and the "untouchables". For Indian culture, it's completely natural and ok to discriminate against those that aren't the same as you.

I don't mean to start a race war here, and racist people can also have other good qualities as a person, but what I'm speaking is the truth, and if I get punished for speaking the truth then so be it, but at least this ugly politically incorrect truth that no American wants to see or acknowledge is now printed on this page.

This here. That's why I prefer to make a little less money and work for small to medium shops. The H1B Visa Scam is particularly in the benefit of big corporations that's why you do not see many foreigners in small to medium business.

Either way, I do not blame Indians. They are doing what I probably would do. I blame our politicians and our elite. Mainly the Ds. That's why I laugh when I hear any of them talking about putting your skin in the game. Pleaseeeeeee!
 
Travesty444 said:
Cobra said:
This is definitely another kind of race trolling. Could you post some of your specific experiences? Maybe others here can get an idea of what to avoid. I may be getting into the business of recruiting for IT in the future so am very interested in this phenomenon as well since I have come across a lot of Indian IT guys "from" India within the Corporate offices I have worked in.

In Indian culture there is a much more defined concept of "class" where a Garbage man is already defined as one as he's born, rather than in the US where even a Garbage man can be high status as long as he makes up for it in other areas of his lifestyle and then has opportunities to do something else if he wants.

These guys carry this mindset over to the west. Once America invites them over, they get on a high horse. It not only fucks them over with local people and especially women (refer to: Indian race troll threads), but also ends up causing reverse discrimination against citizens of the very country that took them in. Then they wonder why people don't like them.

I get especially furious because being Indian I had to forcefully disassociate with these beliefs and fought very hard against them.

In my grad school for computer science all the international Indian students banded together to trade exams, notes, projects etc... to copy off each other. They were 50% of the master's program roughly.

In a software engineering class we had a semester long project with 7-8 people a team. At the end everyone voted on the grades of the other teams' projects.

Ours was clear and away the best by far we worked weekends on it together for 8 hour stretches.

All the Indians in the class gave us C and D marks on it. A few of us went into the Chinese born professor and he said yeah ours was the best, those students were full of shit.

We all got A's from the professor, but it shows the mentality.

The normal cat in software I come across is very sincere, helpful, congratulatory, and collaborative.

Look at Open Source in general.

Indians in my experience that are new in the U.S. do not operate on this level with the ones I knew in grad school. The few ones that have interviewed me either generally or technically have been the most stringent and least likely to expand on explaining the problem they want solved.

The best and brightest development lead I have ever had (made a serious stack of cash at 27 and went to fuck around in Thailand for a year), said he will never work with Indians again after a year working with many. Too hard to work with, won't communicate, smell.

This is why I do not fear the competition or hordes.

Quality companies attract quality developers. (small to mid-size usually)

Code sweat shops or big cog corporations will squeeze you and attract lower talent much of the time.

A company with strong venture capital that is lean as fuck and offers good salary, stock option, and bonuses while treating their developers as their most important asset does not often go for HB1's not familiar with American culture in my experience although I am still new at the game relatively.

Basically if you can't beat out an HB1 for the quality dev jobs you need to seriously up your game. Software is endless there will always be needs for new tools and systems until we have a sentient OS that takes us all over and enslaves us.

If you can communicate well, understand American business culture, and can lead with a good portfolio you will have recruiters dialing you non-stop.

Amen!. or in Shala. LOL. You just said what everybody in the IT world knows for sure but everybody is afraid of saying because the PC squat will come to hunt you. Either way, do not blame the H1B holders, not 100%. It is the fault of our elected politicians.

How many of you have contacted your Senator and Congressman regarding this H1B Issue?

While our King Hussein keeps pushing for more benefit for the H1B crowd while people in some states are barely making it.
 

Onto

Ostrich
Gold Member
JuanQuinQuin said:
Either way, I do not blame Indians. They are doing what I probably would do.

I would not be doing what they are. It's not the way I was raised. If you don't blame them, I'm guessing it's because you've never had to suffer their discrimination first hand?
 
Onto said:
JuanQuinQuin said:
Either way, I do not blame Indians. They are doing what I probably would do.

I would not be doing what they are. It's not the way I was raised. If you don't blame them, I'm guessing it's because you've never had to suffer their discrimination first hand?

Discrimination. Well, I have had to choose in the past between a guy from my neighborhood and a guy from CT. Both almost at the same level, I chose the guy from my hood. Call it human nature. I work in IT where jobs are plentiful so I can afford to pickup with whom I work with. I do not work under any woman neither for big corporations, except when the amount of money I get is equivalent to the amount of shit I have to take from the corporate drones. :banana:
 

Travesty

Crow
Gold Member
Onto said:
JuanQuinQuin said:
Either way, I do not blame Indians. They are doing what I probably would do.

I would not be doing what they are. It's not the way I was raised. If you don't blame them, I'm guessing it's because you've never had to suffer their discrimination first hand?

No, you should blame Indians. Not targeting anyone in particular but if any nationality/culture as a group acted in a such a manner I would blame them.

Shame is lacking in America overall.

Many parts of many cultures suck including American culture as we all know well enough. The bad parts of all cultures should be shamed constantly, until only the good is left. That is the only way to improve society.

For instance white Americans in general are bad at dancing, not willing to learn foreign languages, lack overall style and swag, and in many parts of the country lack a sense of general warmth (can be stiff, cold, overly polite, uptight) which should be shamed. These are shame worthy parts of the white American culture.
 

rhodey

Woodpecker
TravelerKai said:
Kaii said:
This will be a rant. I work for a large bank doing IT work. I am supposed to be a senior level engineer with SCCM (Systems Center Configuration Manager for the geeks here). However, instead of doing cool engineer work like designing application virtualization, or zero-touch imaging or anything related to the level I am supposed to be working at, they have me doing bullshit busy work and helpdesk level shit.

It is unbelievable to me how management can be in IT and know nothing about technology. Or, the amount of whiny fucking people you have to work with. Of course, there are plenty of women here who also don't do anything and complain all the time.

I have been in the industry for a while and worked my way up from call center bitch to engineer. It's becoming more and clearer to me that the only way I will ever be happy is to work for myself, or a company that gives me freedom in my schedule and my workload.


I would love to quit and just do my own thing, however, like most of us, I have financially obligations.


Have any of you been in this situation? How did you handle it?

I really just want to feel free.

Thanks for reading and any advice would be great.

I am an IT consultant and started out more or less exactly like you did. I work primarily with Microsoft and VMware stuff.

I will tell you the same thing a CCIE, that owned a million dollar house, told me years ago.

You have to be willing to leave.

There are no promotions in IT. There are no raises and bonuses in IT. Especially OPEX areas like support, infrastructure, networking, etc.

You need to adopt a "Fuck You, Pay Me." attitude.

If you want to get out of the helpdesk? Get certs and quit. Want to get out of Jr. Administrator or Admin level? Quit. Want to stop being an engineer? Wait 5 years and then quit. Want to stop being an Architect or Consultant and jump to the C Suite or director level? Get a MBA and then quit.

That is your natural corporate progression in Information Technology.

All that said, I am trying to make the jump into being location independent and live abroad or split time between the US and China. Perhaps trade, construction, or other things between China and Africa will yield great opportunities to guys in our age group.

If you or others on RVF are interested in things like this (I have already spoken to a handful already about this stuff), lets keep in touch over PMs and perhaps we can someday find some niche that alot of us can share into.

Eventually IT will start culling more and more jobs, not because of Indians with HB1s or too much competition, but because the technology itself may eventually render these jobs useless. I am already seeing the wall myself. The cloud is not going anywhere and will make a bigger come back for round 2, once the storage gets much smaller and cheaper. Can you imagine a crystal rock storing terabytes without needing lots of cold air to keep cool? Datacenter guys might be okay in the next five years, but what about in 10 years?

Think about that.


Wow I have similar goals and a similar career track. I'm currently studying for my VCP. Please include me in the loop.
 

saeta119

Sparrow
I have to say one benefit of being in the IT field is that you can find jobs all over the world. For example here in eastern europe you can come not knowing the language and find a job with an international company as english is spoken at work.
I know many lawyers hoteliers architects doctors who just cant find something here due to them not speaking the language.
Im in IT and finding a job was not hard.
 
Good thread guys. I'm in IT and a lot of this thread rings true, especially about Indians. Although, I haven't that bad of an experience as I've been lucky not to be in a lot of projects with them.

Office politics is tricky & constantly shifting. I was on a project where I sided with the business side (the dark side) because IT was actually darker (lying, not forthcoming with problems, lobbying to push shitty products). I wanted to deploy the right solution to the business and I got their back (immunity) until the Sr VP got fired and the project ran out of money. Then the IT side did not extend my contract. With so much drama, I was ready & glad to leave at this point.

I have to somewhat disagree with the raises and bonuses. If you work as a contractor/consultant you can give yourself a raise by just telling the client you're getting other work offers on other projects at a higher rate. You don't have to explicitly say that you're charging more or you move on. They'll understand that they'll need to step up or else. As for bonuses, banks are known for this. I got an offer from Bank of NY for a 6 figure salary and a healthy bonus (I think it was around 15-20%). Another bank I worked at also had healthy bonuses, which they gave annually around March.

Still, this thread has a lot of interesting and eye opening stuff even for a veteran like me.

I do wonder though why a programmer/engineer guild or union doesn't get off the ground..
 

Seaver

Sparrow
saeta119 said:
I have to say one benefit of being in the IT field is that you can find jobs all over the world. For example here in eastern europe you can come not knowing the language and find a job with an international company as english is spoken at work.
I know many lawyers hoteliers architects doctors who just cant find something here due to them not speaking the language.
Im in IT and finding a job was not hard.

What resources did you use to find your position?

Did you get your position before you moved there or do you have to have a local address before you get any attention for positions?
 
Onto,

I agree with you. We Indians are universally hated in every sphere...Even Thai's hate us and never allow us in their bars. Filipinos hate us, Africans hate us, Chinese, Koreans....You name it, we are universally hated. There must be some reason behind it.

..The way Indian society is ...Feeling of hierarchical superiority, groupism is ingrained in our DNA..Worse, we hate each other thanks to Caste...India is very old, done and dusted, the best days are long over...Its a nation in decline...The good guys are long gone...

Whom are we kidding here...We are leeching of off American jobs working for low wages not because we are talented or something or adding value to America....As another member noted..There is no shortage of IT workers in America but they want us as we work for low wage.

Also, I have noticed, they promote us much faster to higher management position than a fellow American, ir-respective of the talent we have...I couldn't understand it before...now its much clearer.

Do not buy the lame stream BS that Indians are all so great in IT and changing the world etc..all BS, fake stories to get more kids join some IT college and produce more slaves for corporations.

Infosys, Wipro, TCS are the worst IT companies in India, hated by Indians too...Its a slave factory, they get contract on dirt cheap prices from US and then they develop the project in a offshore facility in India by making people work for like 16 hours a day.

We are very opportunistic, cunning, dishonest in every field - That's why many Indian IT companies have bad reputation...and many guys who work once with Indian company will always come out with a bitter experience....

Also, this groupism is very strong...so strong that even we do not mingle with people from other states and languages in India itself...like a guy from California will not mingle with a guy from new york state etc...You have to be from the same caste, religion, state, mother tongue to be in a group.

-----------------

Most Indians will get defensive when pointed out on their mistake, shortcomings..The problem is us not them...

From Night life to Corporate IT life....aka from a Thai Bar Girl to a highly educated American IT guy..Why is that every person in all professions have something bad to say about Indians? Why...its so shameful.....It may be called racism if one group says so...however...I hear this from everyone from IT guys in America to Pattaya girls in Thailand to Filipina bar girls in Angeles city to expats from UK to regular dating girls in okcupid ...common now...Its so embarrassing..

Just ask a Thai bar girl on Indians and you will hear her saying we share beer, girls and are cheap, similarly in IT...backstabbing, dishonest, untrustworthy, groupism etc...Why can't we Indians look INWARD and accept our mistakes and evolve...The rest of the world is not stupid.

Needless to say, not everyone in India are like that but its the average of it..all the good and bad vibes combined and you get generally a bad feeling about us.

Onto...You did the right thing by moving away...You saved yourself from devolving ....You have nothing to learn from us other hurting yourself mentally....

I feel so ashamed, some of the stuff we do now is not even classified as Human Emotions anymore....:)
 

Deluge

Hummingbird
Gold Member
^That has to be the most damning criticism of Indians I've ever seen on RVF. And that's saying something.

wee-bey-gif.gif
 

Brisey

Robin
Gold Member
Seaver said:
saeta119 said:
I have to say one benefit of being in the IT field is that you can find jobs all over the world. For example here in eastern europe you can come not knowing the language and find a job with an international company as english is spoken at work.
I know many lawyers hoteliers architects doctors who just cant find something here due to them not speaking the language.
Im in IT and finding a job was not hard.

What resources did you use to find your position?

Did you get your position before you moved there or do you have to have a local address before you get any attention for positions?

I've taken a few jobs and contracts prior to moving to a location. I get quite a few calls for offers in different countries based on my linkedin profile, for example Dubai, Panama and other countries in Europe. As said by others, build a decent linkedin profile and add your CV to various job sites. I've used the following in the past with success.
www.theitjobboard.co.uk
http://www.cwjobs.co.uk/
http://www.pentasia.com/
http://www.monster.co.uk/ and other monster sites based on location, eg .com, .sg
http://www.pentasia.com/
 

testos111

Robin
Threads like these point to widespread lack of consciousness in today's world.

Why is there so much whining? Why can't you just quit your job if you hate it that much?

The only answer that makes a little bit sense is that regarding financial obligations. But it still isn't entirely convincing when broken down and traced back to its root.

I ask you this - Can you only survive on breakfast, lunch and dinner for the sake of happiness? If no, then you deserve to have a crappy job and unending obligations. If yes, then you will be sensible enough to get out of such a job by developing a plan. Minimalism is your ally. I'm not saying quit your job abruptly because there is nothing worse than the emotional turbulence that follows a decision that is not backed with financial prudence. But financial prudence is easily and rather quickly achievable if you are totally focused at it. Think about the breakfast, lunch and dinner thing again.

The other reason people work in these jobs is because they have never questioned their ambitious nature, which in most cases again arises out of conditioning. Why do you need to impress anyone else by compromising your own happiness. Learn to be a loser because that's the only way to win.

The third reason usually revolves around convincing yourself that you are doing a great service to your economy. What BS! There's no economy, there's no country. There's only you! Be selfish.

Bottomline: Start planning. And not a long term plan. A violent and short one. Have the courage. You'll only be happy if you use your talents. The odds of earning a sustainable income out of something that you don't enjoy are actually less than what most people assume them to be. Safe is usually not safe at all.

I can say all this with some credibility because I was stuck in similar soul crushing job in the field of Finance, and I successfully quit that, and now work as a freelancer in fields that complement my strengths. Also on the verge of becoming a teacher/ professor by next year.

The impact of doing something you like on your happiness in unimaginable. It changes you as a person totally. There's no perfect job but there are better jobs and you deserve them. Just be ready to be courageous, take the bull by its horns, face endless criticism and stop giving a fuck about what others think.
 

RockHard

Kingfisher
Gold Member
I'd love to be on the PM list. I've got 20+ years as a computer programmer, and I'm having a hard look at the wall. I work for a company that is awesome, relatively speaking. But I know that I'm only a couple bad quarters away, or an acquisition away, from being in a shitty situation, or out on the street. The IT business is positively scary for people over 50. My advice to those in their 20s - start plotting your career path that gets you out of writing code by age 40. Unless you're ridiculously talented (and be careful not to overestimate your ability), you are a very replaceable resource.

TravelerKai said:
Datacenter guys might be okay in the next five years, but what about in 10 years?

I saw something on twitter the other day about a 1TB thumb drive, then researching it I saw that this news is about 6 months old. 1TB on a thumb? That actually makes my jaw drop a little.

roid, did you write this? This is brilliant.

roid said:
This assumes that the 60-year-old programmer has even learned .NET programming. Every time a new language or technology comes out, the programmer faces a fork.

Have you read The Developer's Dystopian Future? Describes exactly this.

roid said:
You don’t see lawyers being outsourced. In fact, by law, only members of the bar are allowed to practice law, so it would be illegal for foreigners to do American legal work.

And funny how the majority of people making the laws are lawyers...

roid said:
Formal project management is more of a pseudo-science than a real profession, because despite the increasing use of formal project management methods approved by the Project Management Institute (yes they have their own institute), there is no evidence that software is getting better or that fewer software projects fail today than did ten years ago when formal project management was in its infancy.

Way longer than 10 years. The Mythical Man Month came out 30 years ago. Decline and Fall of the American Programmer is 20 years old, and that book was a big advocate of CMM.

THERE WILL BE SEX said:
I do wonder though why a programmer/engineer guild or union doesn't get off the ground..

Ever worked with a union? Careful what you wish for. Anyway, it's not in the DNA of a programmer. The mentality is still the rock star / 20% contributor / superhero programmer. Ever notice how every job posting advertises a superstar or bright, talented team? How is it that every programming team is awesome, yet so much code sucks? In that way, we're fucking ourselves.

What's fascinating to me is the effect on feminism in tech. Computer programmers are I believe the most ignorant group when it comes to women. I have a friend whom I met 16 years ago, we had neighboring cubicles. He was one of the most conservative people I've ever met. Politically, fiscally, socially, religiously, he was hard core - thoughtful, but hard. These days we chat and he starts spouting stuff that shocks me. The other day I almost told him to hear him talk, I wouldn't know he's got sons, because all I hear about is his daughters. It's bizarre because when we met in the late 90's, I was the blue pill liberal and now the views have reversed. It amazes me how deep the feminist mindset has gotten into society.

I've lived the dream and tasted a bit of success. I've been with 3 startups and the last one actually went public and I made some cash. Not "fuck you" money, but a few hundred grand is life-changing money. But just like winning the lottery, you gotta be smart, not going off and spending it all on hookers and blow. I am in a pretty good situation right now but I look around and fully realize that this is all temporary. The hard part is not being complacent.
 

General Stalin

Crow
Gold Member
I work in IT and have grown financially comfortable with my current lifestyle. I feel unchallenged, bored, and wasteful at my job (I'm typing this from my desk).

I would like to make a change, possibly a complete career change. Something I can sink my teeth into, something more location independent perhaps. Something that plays on my passions and strengths. The only issue is my own fear of change - I have grown comfortable with what I have right now. I make enough money where if I were to make a serious career change then I would likely take a pay cut and have to make sacrifices that I currently do not want to make. I recognize that this is 100% my own doing, but I'd like to find a way to still live where I live, enjoys the pleasures that I do, but make income differently.

There is little room for vertical movement in IT, unless you jump ship and company-hop to make slightly higher in-the-door salaries. Doing contract work sounds like it may be interesting, but after almost 3 years in the industry I'm no so sure I want to work with computers, servers, and networks for a long time.

The dream of making your own hours, being your own boss, being location independent, and doing something that makes you feel fulfilled and satisfied with your life is a noble one indeed. Finding what you actually want to do then paving the road to get there can be awfully daunting.

Inside I'm desperate for something more. I'm in a perpetual state of trying to get my ducks in a row so I can make a big change, and living day-to-date chasing more short-term interests.
 
As a fellow Indian I have to agree with you @starchild5, sadly. I find our countrymen's self hatred and slave mentality the most disgusting.

Sign me up for the PM list! I think people are being too pessimistic in this thread. If you get a job you don't like, you will never get a sense of fulfilment, top position or otherwise. Get into the field if you have passion for it, else don't.
 

sandman24

Chicken
General Stalin said:
I work in IT and have grown financially comfortable with my current lifestyle. I feel unchallenged, bored, and wasteful at my job (I'm typing this from my desk).

I would like to make a change, possibly a complete career change. Something I can sink my teeth into, something more location independent perhaps. Something that plays on my passions and strengths. The only issue is my own fear of change - I have grown comfortable with what I have right now. I make enough money where if I were to make a serious career change then I would likely take a pay cut and have to make sacrifices that I currently do not want to make. I recognize that this is 100% my own doing, but I'd like to find a way to still live where I live, enjoys the pleasures that I do, but make income differently.

There is little room for vertical movement in IT, unless you jump ship and company-hop to make slightly higher in-the-door salaries. Doing contract work sounds like it may be interesting, but after almost 3 years in the industry I'm no so sure I want to work with computers, servers, and networks for a long time.

The dream of making your own hours, being your own boss, being location independent, and doing something that makes you feel fulfilled and satisfied with your life is a noble one indeed. Finding what you actually want to do then paving the road to get there can be awfully daunting.

Inside I'm desperate for something more. I'm in a perpetual state of trying to get my ducks in a row so I can make a big change, and living day-to-date chasing more short-term interests.

Holy shit... are you me? Exact same position. I've worked in IT since College, 8 years now. Make decent money but I'm draining away at my desk. I exert a lot of energy trying to find a way out of this rat race.
 
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