I hate the corporate world, especially in IT

Ostermann

Pigeon
I am soon graduating in this field, so add me to the PM list please.

At the moment, at least in my country, this is one of the very few branches where people can actually get jobs, and get at least half decent pay. In most of the other branches here people are either getting hired through family/party connections, or are in top 10% of students.
 

Wreckingball

Pelican
starchild5 said:
Onto,

I agree with you. We Indians are universally hated in every sphere...Even Thai's hate us and never allow us in their bars. Filipinos hate us, Africans hate us, Chinese, Koreans....You name it, we are universally hated. There must be some reason behind it.

..The way Indian society is ...Feeling of hierarchical superiority, groupism is ingrained in our DNA..Worse, we hate each other thanks to Caste...India is very old, done and dusted, the best days are long over...Its a nation in decline...The good guys are long gone...

Whom are we kidding here...We are leeching of off American jobs working for low wages not because we are talented or something or adding value to America....As another member noted..There is no shortage of IT workers in America but they want us as we work for low wage.

Also, I have noticed, they promote us much faster to higher management position than a fellow American, ir-respective of the talent we have...I couldn't understand it before...now its much clearer.

Do not buy the lame stream BS that Indians are all so great in IT and changing the world etc..all BS, fake stories to get more kids join some IT college and produce more slaves for corporations.

Infosys, Wipro, TCS are the worst IT companies in India, hated by Indians too...Its a slave factory, they get contract on dirt cheap prices from US and then they develop the project in a offshore facility in India by making people work for like 16 hours a day.

We are very opportunistic, cunning, dishonest in every field - That's why many Indian IT companies have bad reputation...and many guys who work once with Indian company will always come out with a bitter experience....

Also, this groupism is very strong...so strong that even we do not mingle with people from other states and languages in India itself...like a guy from California will not mingle with a guy from new york state etc...You have to be from the same caste, religion, state, mother tongue to be in a group.

I work at a "TOP" IT consulting firm (or at least they say they are, from the moment you get in, you start getting flooded with brainwash). Every project has at least 1 or 2 indian guys/girls. Why? They are damn cheap. They are so cheap they are "resources". They work 20h a day if needed. And they have a good level of english (although with a funny accent). I'm working with an Indian girl, and this poor girl works like a fucking mule, doing mostly what I call monkey work (things that don't require much brain activation).



I'm currently doing Success Factors "consulting". It's a cloud based software, recently bought by SAP. The software is bad, the implementation is idiotic, complex and similar things are not made the same way. The so called "experts" from SAP or SF know as much as the next rock. The support guys don't really want to do much, always postponing everything, asking irrelevant questions and raising irrelevant issues. What bothers me is that the rules varygreatly from country to country. German guys can say they had overtime, get paid accordignly and use vacations. I cant, so I told them my work is, whether they want it or not, limited to my working schedule. Also currently i'm doing the indian monkey work, and I will keep doing it for long time. That's the plan for the portuguese office. The worst thing, is that they are getting this "indian mentality" that was described. The managers, senior managers and partners say, proudly, that we, portuguese are the Indians of Europe. WELL YOU FUCKTARDS, IF WE ARE THAT, WHY DONT YOU TURN THE FUCKING WHEEL INTO THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION?! I hate this fucking looser mentality

So, since I have been saving around 90% of the 800€ I make per month, I'm going to tell them to go butt-fuck some other person. I will resign soon then, I will either move to other country and find something in my area of studies there (biomedical engineering), or start my own business, then move and keep going from there.


They try to sell you the dream, and it blinds a lot of people. "In 2 years the company will pay me the new iPhone and in 4 i will get a company car". "I want to be a top performer to get my 4% raise". Then they forget to say the they will sap you of your life.
 

puckerman

Ostrich
roid said:
Exactly and that's why I am switching over to become an actuary. IT jobs have low barrier of entry. Actuary, however, has very high barrier of entry. Most people with decent IQ can do IT, not everyone with decent IQ can do actuary.

What do you have to do to become an actuary? I got a 790 on the SAT in math.
 

puckerman

Ostrich
Also, please add me to the private message list. I have published a novel and am writing more. I'm going to get out of this shIT career somehow.
 

puckerman

Ostrich
JuanQuinQuin said:
I think some people tend to be envious of other professions but the lawn is not usually green on the other side. I have worked closely with doctors and other people in the Health Care Industry and I will not change being an high paid IT guy to being a doctor . The amount of work doctors have to put is insane. After insurance that money is not so great. I remember that for a typical doctor pulling 160 G's and the average work schedule is 65 hrs, the pay is only around 55 $/hr. no biggie in my opinion.

I'm not dumb enough to do that--at least with the country's very fucked-up medical system.
 

saeta119

Sparrow
Seaver said:
saeta119 said:
I have to say one benefit of being in the IT field is that you can find jobs all over the world. For example here in eastern europe you can come not knowing the language and find a job with an international company as english is spoken at work.
I know many lawyers hoteliers architects doctors who just cant find something here due to them not speaking the language.
Im in IT and finding a job was not hard.

What resources did you use to find your position?

Did you get your position before you moved there or do you have to have a local address before you get any attention for positions?


I moved first, got a local address and then started searching.
 

bojangles

Crow
Gold Member
Onto said:
JuanQuinQuin said:
Either way, I do not blame Indians. They are doing what I probably would do.

I would not be doing what they are. It's not the way I was raised. If you don't blame them, I'm guessing it's because you've never had to suffer their discrimination first hand?

Blame the indians, they would be shamed back home in India it's just the western world doesnt shame people anymore
 

faznine15

Sparrow
Add me to the list as well. I've bounced around several big companies doing virtualization, sysadmin stuff, and client side "consulting" over the last 10 years.

I'd consider myself a rarity in the field as I was heavily involved in team sports, chasing pussy in highschool and college, and never gave two shits about computer video games or anime. I always tell people I don't know well I work in finance to avoid the immediate beta stereotyping this career puts in others minds.

This ability to shoot the shit and be a normal bro but also turn on a dime and get ultra technical has allowed to me the unique opportunity to have change "teams" several times over my career.


From what I can tell it's all basically the same bullshit. On the Tech end you'll be just another administrative cost drain solving stupid peoples dumb problems that is hated by all levels of management who are focused on making money. On the client end you'll quickly end up being outed as the "smart guy" and spend all your time solving stupid peoples dumb problems while an indifferent management chain contemplates how they can milk their new "smart guy" into doing double duty.

It really boils down to

A consultant is someone who gets noticed when things go right.

A sysadmin(IT in general) is someone who gets noticed when things go wrong.



As such I often think about switching over to the web programming side of things as it seems to afford the ability to work for trendier younger skewed web companies and seems to the the most direct route to a location independent lifestyle and freelancing opportunities.

Anyone have any experience with this? I'd be interested to hear about guys who manage to run their own shop doing infrastructure, vitrualization, and support. Seems like finding those clients would be a lot harder.
 

roid

Woodpecker
puckerman said:
roid said:
Exactly and that's why I am switching over to become an actuary. IT jobs have low barrier of entry. Actuary, however, has very high barrier of entry. Most people with decent IQ can do IT, not everyone with decent IQ can do actuary.

What do you have to do to become an actuary? I got a 790 on the SAT in math.

Pass exam P and FM then look for an entry level job.
 

RockHard

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Wreckingball said:
The so called "experts" from SAP or SF know as much as the next rock.

That got a genuine LOL from me. I'm using that line!

Consulting is such a shitshow. 2 jobs ago they brought in IBM because they HAD TO IMPLEMENT WEBSPHERE OMG THE COMPANY DEPENDS ON IT. Along with the whole Rational suite. Was there ever a product that lied more in its name than Rational? 4 months using that shit and I honestly can say I never managed to figure out how to promote code. And the deal with Websphere is that you can't deploy it unless you hire about 100 IBM consultants to go with it. Oracle, SAP, they all have the same business model. Sell you some shitty barely functional software and then an ongoing labor contract.

One interesting idea: there's about 20 low cost CRMs out there: Sugar & Podio are 2 of them but there's a bunch more. There are small businesses all over the place being run from an Excel spreadsheet, or from the notepad on the owner's phone. These people can do their business but can't do CRM, but they could benefit from having organized lead management, invoicing, bid tracking, subcontract management, etc. Learn what you can about running a CRM from SAP, learn your way around some of the low cost CRMs (entry level price point on most of these is about $10USD / month) and get into business automation.

Accounting is another area. Freshbooks seems to be gaining a lot of traction.

In the US there are all kind of business groups - chamber of commerce or there's all kinds of groups on meetup for lead generation, etc. Get into some of those groups and get to know business owners, or just talk to the businesses you frequent. Find out what they use, what they're doing and where they could use help. It'll take some hustle and the first couple years will be rocky, but I believe there's a giant underserved area in automation for small businesses.

Here's the thing: in the US, clerical work pays probably $30-$40K/ yearly. If you can come in and do it for $10K, the business saves money and you've got $10K - if you can limit your involvement to an hour or two a week and have a dozen customers, you've got a pretty good salary and you're working part-time hours. I don't know what the environment in the EU is like, but it's something to think about.
 

Glaucon

Ostrich
Gold Member
I hate my IT job. The management is just a joke. I am doing everything I can to start my own business.
Often I wonder how things even function with this kind of negligence.
 

puckerman

Ostrich
My best IT work experiences have been in mid-size companies--maybe 40 to 100 people. It was great at a non-profit. I also think I would enjoy doing IT work at a college.
 

americanInEurope

Woodpecker
OP,

This might also be the corporate America attitude. After 14 years of working in that shit I got fed up and decided to take on an IT job in Germany, as a local, on the "economy" as they say in the military IT circles. Although some things will always be the same, by and large it's a lot more stress free. Germany and Europeans in general have a more relaxed attitude, even about work. I hear California is also like this. The pressure is the same when your balls are on the line and the data center goes down, but when stuff is up there's usually no need to fill people with busy work or make you feel bad for taking a day off. I'm also in a senior position and that usually means something in Europe. I notice in America they give people senior titles who aren't really senior. I get told that something needs to be done, then they leave me alone and let me figure out how to get it done. That's how it's supposed to work. The company I work for has 50 office around the world and hundreds of lawyers. I'm tier 3/4 so I don't have to talk to them, but my "customer" is the IT guys on the ground.

But back to your original focus, the guys on here are right that say that the best way out of that shit is to cert up and keep it moving. I can tell you from experience that the grass is not greener on the other side. You'll always have an asshole boss or a douchbag co worker who thinks he's your boss. Do YOUR end of the bargain by doing whatever menial shit task they give you so god-damn good that they get a hard on. I mean put some elbow grease in it and do it better than anybody else. Don't bitch, don't complain, just do it. And again, and again, and again. If after months of this, they still don't give you more responsibility, cert up and move on. It's their loss. From what I know, you'll probably be the bosses little favorite by that point and he/she won't let you go.

Which brings me to, IMO, the biggest problem in working in IT. The actual WORK is the easy part. Given enough time, any so called guru can google and figure out a problem. It's inevitable. No, the biggest problem when working in IT is the PEOPLE you have to work with. Nowhere have I seen so many entitled, whiny little bitches who bring home over six-figure salaries in my entire life. Some people really truly think they are God's gift to the company, and if they leave, production will come to a screeching halt. A lot of older guys get set in their ways, sit in their position for decades, and enjoy tormenting the shit out of younger guys. Some see you as competition because you're younger or smarter or whatever. A lot of the time, just your presence alone is enough to send them into a frenzy. Just you being there makes them feel like their days are numbered, so they must attack. Then you have the women in IT, who are so eager to prove their self worth that they truly take all the fun out of the job, to where it becomes all about posturing and passive aggressive contests. Are you younger? Are you single? These are factors that may be affecting why you're not given any responsibility, regardless of the fact that you probably have certs that the older married guys don't have. It's unfair and a form of discrimination, but it is what it is. At least people will admit it, and that's the first step to stopping it.

Anyway, I feel your pain. Shit didn't start getting easy for me until I got into my 30's and got my CCNP (I'm a network guy). Now that I'm an afternoon lab shy away from my CCIE, the same guys who tormented the fuck out of me as a younger guy all of a sudden want to be homies on LinkedIn, completely forgetting about the past. Lesson of the day: your tormented and horrible corporate life means NOTHING to them. At the end of the day, they'll go home to their shitty life and shitty wife and forget all about how they made your work life a living hell. And 10 years from now, they'll look back and somehow think you guys were pals. So as cliche as this may sound, fuck them. Get the knowledge you can out them and move on. This is a rite of passage that we all have to go through. And whatever doesn't make you walk out that fucking door and quit, will make you a stronger and better tech.
 

puckerman

Ostrich
americanInEurope said:
Which brings me to, IMO, the biggest problem in working in IT. The actual WORK is the easy part. Given enough time, any so called guru can google and figure out a problem. It's inevitable. No, the biggest problem when working in IT is the PEOPLE you have to work with. Nowhere have I seen so many entitled, whiny little bitches who bring home over six-figure salaries in my entire life. Some people really truly think they are God's gift to the company, and if they leave, production will come to a screeching halt. A lot of older guys get set in their ways, sit in their position for decades, and enjoy tormenting the shit out of younger guys. Some see you as competition because you're younger or smarter or whatever. A lot of the time, just your presence alone is enough to send them into a frenzy. Just you being there makes them feel like their days are numbered, so they must attack. Then you have the women in IT, who are so eager to prove their self worth that they truly take all the fun out of the job, to where it becomes all about posturing and passive aggressive contests. Are you younger? Are you single? These are factors that may be affecting why you're not given any responsibility, regardless of the fact that you probably have certs that the older married guys don't have. It's unfair and a form of discrimination, but it is what it is. At least people will admit it, and that's the first step to stopping it.

Anyway, I feel your pain. Shit didn't start getting easy for me until I got into my 30's and got my CCNP (I'm a network guy). Now that I'm an afternoon lab shy away from my CCIE, the same guys who tormented the fuck out of me as a younger guy all of a sudden want to be homies on LinkedIn, completely forgetting about the past. Lesson of the day: your tormented and horrible corporate life means NOTHING to them. At the end of the day, they'll go home to their shitty life and shitty wife and forget all about how they made your work life a living hell. And 10 years from now, they'll look back and somehow think you guys were pals. So as cliche as this may sound, fuck them. Get the knowledge you can out them and move on. This is a rite of passage that we all have to go through. And whatever doesn't make you walk out that fucking door and quit, will make you a stronger and better tech.

Entitled shits making six-figures? You'll meet entitled shits who make less than half that.

Back in 1998, one dickhead owner of a company fired me after four days on the job. This was one business day after he'd given me a key to the place a day earlier. About six years later, he's going out of my way to be nice to me when I meet him at a Microsoft event. If I'd had a private moment with him, I'm not sure what I would have done.

The same thing happened with another guy who made my life hell on a job in 1998. The son of a bitch later wanted me to buy stuff from his employer.
 

Bergalerg

Pigeon
I'm looking to go into computer information systems management as my major. From what I can see experience and certs are important for the first 5 years then you move on to a better paying job that isn't shit? Any advice would be appreciated i'm going to a state university basically for free because of scholarships and I picked this major because it makes the most and seems like the least amount of effort. I am good at just about everything so I just followed average salary dollars for job choice and I am a very content person by nature so I don't have extreme passions when it come to working somewhere.
 
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