I hate the corporate world, especially in IT

The_Fmo

Chicken
Hey Guys,

Just want to chip in this thread since I went a bit different route than most of you guys. I'm a networking engineer as well but I went the niche route (well, any other vendor than Cisco would be considered niche I guess). I also have absolutely no desire to work for a big corp or govt. I obviously won't say no if I have to, but I've always preferred much smaller companies, and in a few years I should be all set on my own anyways.

I have worked mostly for small consulting firms and I think that this is a much better way to learn your trade when you come out of school than getting straight to big corp. You get to tackle very different projects and play with much more diverse gear. There is also the fact that you are usually involved either when something is wrong or when there is something new to deploy. Your troubleshooting and architecture skills should develop accordingly, as well as your social business skills (customer facing, defusing situations, presentations, etc). Before long, if you can make a name for yourself, you will start receiving offers left and right anyways so even if you intend to work in a big corp, I think it puts you and your skills on display in a much more efficient way.
 

Bergalerg

Pigeon
puckerman said:
Bergalerg said:
I'm looking to go into computer information systems management as my major.

I'm going to provide advice and am willing to bet you'll ignore it. Change majors and go into something else. Have you read all the posts in this thread?

The Wire said:
I have Bachelor's in Computer Information Systems.

Don't worry about certs at the start. You want to focus on your University getting you internships and then making sure you are able to leverage those internships into job offers or at the very least you them as references when you graduate. Once you start your job somewhere and have a path you want to go down you can worry about certifications.

I wouldn't call it a rewarding career by any means but im also not stupid enough to act like it's the worst position to be in either.

I appreciate the advice I too also looked at average salaries and used that for determining my major http://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/11-3021.00 , I see that is not the case at all. Which, is why I was curious I read all the other posts and it seems like it becomes a shitty job quick and doesn't live up to the pay very well. I see I will now probably change my major as i'm only in my second year. I might have to go into network engineering like TravelerKai mentioned or something else, so i do appreciate the advice and have been trying to talk to people in this profession to see if it is like what has been said about it online.
 

OSL

Ostrich
Gold Member
-

Hello guys - don't want to hijack this thread but I'm looking for full stack web devs with ample experience developing for mobile (iOS/Android). Freelance position that can end up being a cofounder or early employee situation, depending on whether there is a good fit culturally and technically.

http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-38988.html

Cheers.

-
 

puckerman

Ostrich
TravelerKai said:
Austin has had issues lately but it still has a number of jobs. Blackberry failing hurt the city last year. The city is known for niche stuff and Dell.

Is this all based on some on-line article you read? My comments are based on the fact that I live and work in Austin. Do you live here?

Austin has a lot of issues, and I often wish I hadn't moved here. My previous city was Columbus, Ohio. I often hear of people getting more money in DFW and Houston, and those cities now have a lower cost of living.

One of the good things about working in Austin is that most places have little or no dress code. In a way, this makes interviewing for jobs tougher because you have no idea what to wear.
 

puckerman

Ostrich
Bergalerg said:
I appreciate the advice I too also looked at average salaries and used that for determining my major http://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/11-3021.00 , I see that is not the case at all. Which, is why I was curious I read all the other posts and it seems like it becomes a shitty job quick and doesn't live up to the pay very well. I see I will now probably change my major as i'm only in my second year. I might have to go into network engineering like TravelerKai mentioned or something else, so i do appreciate the advice and have been trying to talk to people in this profession to see if it is like what has been said about it online.

Whatever career you choose, get out and talk to real people. Get involved with professional groups. Try to find people who work in the industry and profession that interests you. Choose a career based on what you hear from people who are actually in the career.

Ignore all the bullshit you read on web sites.
 

TravelerKai

Peacock
Gold Member
puckerman said:
TravelerKai said:
Austin has had issues lately but it still has a number of jobs. Blackberry failing hurt the city last year. The city is known for niche stuff and Dell.

Is this all based on some on-line article you read? My comments are based on the fact that I live and work in Austin. Do you live here?

Austin has a lot of issues, and I often wish I hadn't moved here. My previous city was Columbus, Ohio. I often hear of people getting more money in DFW and Houston, and those cities now have a lower cost of living.

One of the good things about working in Austin is that most places have little or no dress code. In a way, this makes interviewing for jobs tougher because you have no idea what to wear.

I work in Houston. I know alot about Austin IT. I knew about the layoffs at RIM before any newspaper article because I knew many of the guys in that office. Austin has a higher cost of living because of all the yuppies in UT.

There are still lots of Datacenter footprint there due to the city being inland from hurricane threats. The best ones are still college station and Dallas though. You probably should move to Dallas if you want better work, unless you do niche stuff.
 

TravelerKai

Peacock
Gold Member
Also, always wear a nice fitted suit for an interview. I don't care if they make slime for a product. It shows that you cared enough to present your best. I have been told many times in Texas to yank that Damn neck tie off in an interview. I always still get the job though.
 

The Wire

Kingfisher
Gold Member
TravelerKai said:
If you are a SQL/Database Engineer, make sure you take the time to get fully certified as high as possible. Regardless of your experience. Doing shit like that make you almost recession proof. IT is competitive nowadays. A guy with lots of experience and certs is always picked over anyone else.


Yeah I have to agree with this from what I read and also from my personal experience. I've literally read the same thing multiple times from guys who say they get job offers easily.


Jobs in IT are kind of similar to game in a way. You know how 20% of the guys end up fucking 80% of the girls? It's like that in the job market. There is a low percentage of candidates who get most of the job offers and the rest of the candidates can't get offers in a recession. The truth is even during a recession companies have a hard time finding qualified candidates for certain positions(trust me guys this is the truth).

If you have the skills and experience that companies are looking for then I'm pretty sure you can even get a job in Austin TX pretty easy. The problem is IT is a very wide net in terms of skills.
 

TravelerKai

Peacock
Gold Member
Between me and like five other guys, we fuck with the most clients in my city for our skillset. The rest have in-house guys that are kinda so so. When I finish a contract it's normal for recruiters to fight over me for the next one. Managing headhunters and hiring managers having beef with each other can be challenging at times. I usually get a call once a month asking if I am done wherever I currently am at.
 

The Wire

Kingfisher
Gold Member
TravelerKai said:
Between me and like five other guys, we fuck with the most clients in my city for our skillset. The rest have in-house guys that are kinda so so. When I finish a contract it's normal for recruiters to fight over me for the next one. Managing headhunters and hiring managers having beef with each other can be challenging at times. I usually get a call once a month asking if I am done wherever I currently am at.

I don't work a contract position but work with guys who come into my company who do and I can attest that the good ones have zero issues getting gig after gig. I briefly did a contract position and personally my main concern with a contract position would be locations. For example if your contracting in the suburbs then you need to contend with some annoying commutes. Long commutes are a big pet peeve of mine.
 

burownidl

Pigeon
Gold Member
I've been in IT for 10 years now, worked myself up from helpdesk to unix/linux sys admin. Recently acquired, I now too work for a large bank filled with lots of bureaucratic BS. Job responsibilities are slowly being taken away. I think i have 2 years left before I get my pink slip - hopefully i get a good package.

I have no motivation at work and would love to quit and move to SEA.

For those of you in IT:
I've been a *nix sys admin for 2 years now, is it worth me getting certs, and really good at bash/korn shell scripting?

Can i take these skills across the globe somewhere? Im sick of the girls, gov, and the political correctness here.
 

TravelerKai

Peacock
Gold Member
gps1976 said:
I've been in IT for 10 years now, worked myself up from helpdesk to unix/linux sys admin. Recently acquired, I now too work for a large bank filled with lots of bureaucratic BS. Job responsibilities are slowly being taken away. I think i have 2 years left before I get my pink slip - hopefully i get a good package.

I have no motivation at work and would love to quit and move to SEA.

For those of you in IT:
I've been a *nix sys admin for 2 years now, is it worth me getting certs, and really good at bash/korn shell scripting?

Can i take these skills across the globe somewhere? Im sick of the girls, gov, and the political correctness here.

I'm not sure what you can do outside the US with Unix, but if were you I would at least jump into another area using your Unix powers as your strength. For example. 9/10 security appliances and solutions have Unix backends. Like Proofpoint, Ironport, etc. Lots of the better security guys are linux/unix pros. Tools like Snort, etc. use unix. No one trusts Microsoft for a backend for important security stuff. You could easily segway yourself into an area that is actually growing instead of dying to cloud and other bullshit. Get a Security + or Certified Ethical Hacker cert. Some people would stuggle with the unix parts of the exam, but you wouldn't.
Take advantage of stuff like this.

You could also get into business ERP systems that are unix based. Not all companies can run SAP. Sounds like you may already be doing stuff like this though. If so, find a new job so that you can at least get paid enough to make putting up with bullshit here worth your while.

If you go security route starting pay is around 90K everywhere for Texas cost of living, that is. It's not uncommon to see security guys making 135K around here with 5 years of security experience. Security is hot right now and is only getting hotter. It may not travel well unless you work for a multinational corporation, but shit man. With 110-135K, you could just travel out whenever you can like I do. Once you get around 10 years doing stuff like this, you can consult like I do. That makes life alot more free to move around and travel.

Hope this helps.
 

StrikeBack

Ostrich
Gold Member
*nix is huge inside and outside of the US. Open source is big in fast growing places (companies or countries) as they seek to get a competitive advantage on the cheaper side. The catch is you gotta be a gun at it and not some random joe who can install a point n click Ubuntu and get excited after typing a few shell commands into a terminal.

I moved from web dev to Linux sysadmin 8 years ago and never looked back. Started out in security (didn't like it though) and now I'm in big data and HPC. You want to be very good at config management and scripting. I could puppetise and script half of the useless bums around here out of a job tomorrow, if I could somehow convince the execs to pay me, say, half of the salary savings. Working on it lol

Pretty much look at anything that has a big skill barrier to entry (meaning more demand, less competition) and you'll be fine.

I like the *nix world because it has a huge skill barrier but relatively very low cost to entry. Very easy to demonstrate your skills without needing to get big expensive certs (which there are very few of).

I see guys getting made "voluntarily redundant" left right & center in my workplaces over the last 5 years, and it's always the ones who refuse to make time to learn new skills. They'd say they're busy outside of work to learn anything new, and at work they spend half or more of their time browsing social media sites.

I don't claim to know exactly how rough the job market is for young guys getting into IT, but I've been on many interview panels to hire them, or offer to mentor (because I'm their team leader), and there are two most common things I've encountered:

1. They never ask: "please teach me blah, I want to get better" - until it's too late. You want to ask that question on day one of your job, not day one after hearing about the next coming round of redundancies.

2. They don't really want to learn anyway. They waste more time on their phones and social media than improving themselves. Zero self discipline to learn.
 

burownidl

Pigeon
Gold Member
StrikeBack said:
*nix is huge inside and outside of the US. Open source is big in fast growing places (companies or countries) as they seek to get a competitive advantage on the cheaper side. The catch is you gotta be a gun at it and not some random joe who can install a point n click Ubuntu and get excited after typing a few shell commands into a terminal.

I moved from web dev to Linux sysadmin 8 years ago and never looked back. Started out in security (didn't like it though) and now I'm in big data and HPC. You want to be very good at config management and scripting. I could puppetise and script half of the useless bums around here out of a job tomorrow, if I could somehow convince the execs to pay me, say, half of the salary savings. Working on it lol

Pretty much look at anything that has a big skill barrier to entry (meaning more demand, less competition) and you'll be fine.

I like the *nix world because it has a huge skill barrier but relatively very low cost to entry. Very easy to demonstrate your skills without needing to get big expensive certs (which there are very few of).

I see guys getting made "voluntarily redundant" left right & center in my workplaces over the last 5 years, and it's always the ones who refuse to make time to learn new skills. They'd say they're busy outside of work to learn anything new, and at work they spend half or more of their time browsing social media sites.

I don't claim to know exactly how rough the job market is for young guys getting into IT, but I've been on many interview panels to hire them, or offer to mentor (because I'm their team leader), and there are two most common things I've encountered:

1. They never ask: "please teach me blah, I want to get better" - until it's too late. You want to ask that question on day one of your job, not day one after hearing about the next coming round of redundancies.

2. They don't really want to learn anyway. They waste more time on their phones and social media than improving themselves. Zero self discipline to learn.

Man i'd love to work for you....being you'd offer to mentor. That's exactly what i need. Seems like people are protective with their knowledge. I know practice, but any other helpful ideas about getting better at scripting? I have vsphere at home, so whipping up a few linux vms to practice on i can do. Let me know if there's any bash/korn sites you really like.

Thx
 

burownidl

Pigeon
Gold Member
TravelerKai said:
gps1976 said:
I've been in IT for 10 years now, worked myself up from helpdesk to unix/linux sys admin. Recently acquired, I now too work for a large bank filled with lots of bureaucratic BS. Job responsibilities are slowly being taken away. I think i have 2 years left before I get my pink slip - hopefully i get a good package.

I have no motivation at work and would love to quit and move to SEA.

For those of you in IT:
I've been a *nix sys admin for 2 years now, is it worth me getting certs, and really good at bash/korn shell scripting?

Can i take these skills across the globe somewhere? Im sick of the girls, gov, and the political correctness here.

I'm not sure what you can do outside the US with Unix, but if were you I would at least jump into another area using your Unix powers as your strength. For example. 9/10 security appliances and solutions have Unix backends. Like Proofpoint, Ironport, etc. Lots of the better security guys are linux/unix pros. Tools like Snort, etc. use unix. No one trusts Microsoft for a backend for important security stuff. You could easily segway yourself into an area that is actually growing instead of dying to cloud and other bullshit. Get a Security + or Certified Ethical Hacker cert. Some people would stuggle with the unix parts of the exam, but you wouldn't.
Take advantage of stuff like this.

You could also get into business ERP systems that are unix based. Not all companies can run SAP. Sounds like you may already be doing stuff like this though. If so, find a new job so that you can at least get paid enough to make putting up with bullshit here worth your while.

If you go security route starting pay is around 90K everywhere for Texas cost of living, that is. It's not uncommon to see security guys making 135K around here with 5 years of security experience. Security is hot right now and is only getting hotter. It may not travel well unless you work for a multinational corporation, but shit man. With 110-135K, you could just travel out whenever you can like I do. Once you get around 10 years doing stuff like this, you can consult like I do. That makes life alot more free to move around and travel.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the reply. It does seem like good security people are needed, but its never been an interest for me. Especially if there's a vulnerability exploited when you're on the job.
 

TravelerKai

Peacock
Gold Member
gps1976 said:
TravelerKai said:
gps1976 said:
I've been in IT for 10 years now, worked myself up from helpdesk to unix/linux sys admin. Recently acquired, I now too work for a large bank filled with lots of bureaucratic BS. Job responsibilities are slowly being taken away. I think i have 2 years left before I get my pink slip - hopefully i get a good package.

I have no motivation at work and would love to quit and move to SEA.

For those of you in IT:
I've been a *nix sys admin for 2 years now, is it worth me getting certs, and really good at bash/korn shell scripting?

Can i take these skills across the globe somewhere? Im sick of the girls, gov, and the political correctness here.

I'm not sure what you can do outside the US with Unix, but if were you I would at least jump into another area using your Unix powers as your strength. For example. 9/10 security appliances and solutions have Unix backends. Like Proofpoint, Ironport, etc. Lots of the better security guys are linux/unix pros. Tools like Snort, etc. use unix. No one trusts Microsoft for a backend for important security stuff. You could easily segway yourself into an area that is actually growing instead of dying to cloud and other bullshit. Get a Security + or Certified Ethical Hacker cert. Some people would stuggle with the unix parts of the exam, but you wouldn't.
Take advantage of stuff like this.

You could also get into business ERP systems that are unix based. Not all companies can run SAP. Sounds like you may already be doing stuff like this though. If so, find a new job so that you can at least get paid enough to make putting up with bullshit here worth your while.

If you go security route starting pay is around 90K everywhere for Texas cost of living, that is. It's not uncommon to see security guys making 135K around here with 5 years of security experience. Security is hot right now and is only getting hotter. It may not travel well unless you work for a multinational corporation, but shit man. With 110-135K, you could just travel out whenever you can like I do. Once you get around 10 years doing stuff like this, you can consult like I do. That makes life alot more free to move around and travel.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the reply. It does seem like good security people are needed, but its never been an interest for me. Especially if there's a vulnerability exploited when you're on the job.

Security is just one example of a heavy Unix based area of IT. Find one that appeals to you and do what Strikeback suggested. A shell kiddie is a dime a dozen. Become fantastic with scripting and automation. Write stuff to automate even the small things you do at work right now. Practice makes perfect.
 
TravelerKai said:
Between me and like five other guys, we fuck with the most clients in my city for our skillset. The rest have in-house guys that are kinda so so. When I finish a contract it's normal for recruiters to fight over me for the next one. Managing headhunters and hiring managers having beef with each other can be challenging at times. I usually get a call once a month asking if I am done wherever I currently am at.

Aghrrr, I like to play with the RHT Houston Crew. I play one against each other and I usually get my 10-15 increase on the negotiation.
 

StrikeBack

Ostrich
Gold Member
gps1976 said:
Man i'd love to work for you....being you'd offer to mentor. That's exactly what i need. Seems like people are protective with their knowledge. I know practice, but any other helpful ideas about getting better at scripting? I have vsphere at home, so whipping up a few linux vms to practice on i can do. Let me know if there's any bash/korn sites you really like.

Thx

If you ask the right questions at the right time, everyone loves to share their knowledge. My dad would say everyone loves to be a professor lecturing others at some points, you just need to know how to bring that out in them. People who are too protective of their own knowledge often are not very good anyway. The more you share, the more you get back, and the more recognition you get in the field. The best local guy I know shares everything openly (not my mentor, but has a huge influence on my career) and he can pick & choose jobs at will.

As for scripting (and pretty much everything else), I'm a CompSci major, so I started with an O'Reilly book and learned through trying to automate everything I come across at work. If I have to do something twice, or think I might need to do it again, I automate it. If I run into problems, I'd ask on forums, mailing lists and (these days) stackexchange.

Take for example your Linux VMs. Once you've installed a couple by hands, it's time to wonder: how can I do that just by running a script with a couple of params? Because you get bored of entering similar answers over and over again, right? Then bam, suddenly you start down the path of learning PXE boot, kickstart, debian-installer preseeds, configuration management with puppet etc just to name a few. Or with research you realise that Vmware blows and you should be learning Xen and KVM instead, a road which will inevitably lead you to OpenStack (i.e what's hot right now).

Every time you do something, think how you can do it with more automation and fewer steps, or how you scale it up to hundreds or thousands of similar objects (e.g VMs, desktops or servers), or scale up to a bigger team of sysadmins.

Don't try to be perfect at the start. Just start scripting or writing config, then refactor again and again and again as you progress step by step.

If you constantly do that to every part of your job, you're always one or several steps ahead of people who want to replace your role (as IT is a cost center, it's inevitable if you stagnate for too long).
 
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