If Trump Loses, Do You Plan on Leaving the USA/Western World?

Sirob

Robin
watching the US election coverage on german tv right now and its demoralising. they dont even hide their bias and its just non stop wall to wall negative pieces on our god emperor.

I need to turn off the msm and get away from this firestorm of negative biased coverage.
 

The Beast1

Peacock
Gold Member
Hillary will not win. The polls mean jack.

Look at Brexit. They can massage the polls all they want, heck they can even do some voter fraud as well.

Republicans will come out by the droves and blow her out of the water. There isn't anyway she'll be winning.

There will be more leaks, just wait. Wikileaks has the 30,000 missing emails.
 
^ your fingers to god's eyes, ears

I agree with you and have told people right now it's a full on push to make things a sustained, solidified narrative --- but it's SO early and people are so easily spooked.

I've always said, HRC has to be up HUGE right now because time is on Trump's side big time --- the debates are a matchup nightmare for her on so many levels. Not to mention more terror attacks and problems all around the world that make her look weaker and weaker every time they occur.
 

Samseau

Owl
Gold Member
Kid Twist said:
^ your fingers to god's eyes, ears

I agree with you and have told people right now it's a full on push to make things a sustained, solidified narrative --- but it's SO early and people are so easily spooked.

I've always said, HRC has to be up HUGE right now because time is on Trump's side big time --- the debates are a matchup nightmare for her on so many levels. Not to mention more terror attacks and problems all around the world that make her look weaker and weaker every time they occur.
And the increase on ObamaCare premiums... Obama is trying to delay that too. Time is certainly not on their side.
 

MdWanderer

Pelican
Gold Member
Kid Twist said:
I've always said, HRC has to be up HUGE right now because time is on Trump's side big time --- the debates are a matchup nightmare for her on so many levels. Not to mention more terror attacks and problems all around the world that make her look weaker and weaker every time they occur.
My anticipation for these debates are bigger than my anticipation for the Super Bowl.
 

AFS

Woodpecker
I already left the US, so the question is: would I go back if Trump wins?

While I would certainly be happy if he won, I would never go back to the states. I know some may criticize me for a lack of patriotism, or for being a pessimistic nihilist, but the idea of what the nation of USA is supposed to be is dead and I don't see it coming back. Please forgive me in advance for my pessimism, but:

The problems in the US are so deep seated, it would take nothing short of a revolution to change them. And revolutions are bloody, and often take decades to recover from (or never).

There are millions upon millions of people in the US who will never contribute to society. Period. Take the housing block I grew up in as an example. About 15 thousand people live there, and a majority are on government assistance. Government pays for rent, food, and their kids and/or abortions. Most of those who are unemployed will never work. Those who do work have government jobs or services jobs. So literally, they produce nothing. No factories, no products, no idea, nada. And even if they wanted to (which they don't), they are not even able to speak or do math. How will they contribute to a functioning society?

Will Trump come in and cut off benefits for these people? Will he make the two-party system illegal? Will he enact campaign finance reform so others can run for office who aren't millionaires or backed by millionaires? He would, no joke, have to be the Hitler or Stalin people imagine him to be to make those sort of changes. Someone with completely cold blood, able to look at the slate and wipe it clean, no matter how many people get hurt.

Certainly things will improve. But nothing changes as for the main reasons I left:

1) Healthcare. There will never be universal healthcare, because there is no way to pay for it. As previously mentioned, there are millions of parasites in the US who don't contribute anything to society. Not only that, they drink, do drugs, and eat fast food nonstop, so they are in desperate need of constant medical care by about 50-60. Obamacare is a disaster where injured people are forced to go to overcrowded 3rd world hispitals. If you have a job, your $500-$1000 insurance doesn't cover shit. You pay every time you see the doctor, and for every medication and procedure.

I refuse to live in a country where I'm working full time and die when I get sick because I can't get proper care.

2) Culture and society. Everyone hates each other. There is no such thing as "Americans" anymore, except in the minds of 40 year old Italian cops. People vote along tribal lines and could care less about what is best for the country. Blacks hate whites, hispanics hate blacks, etc, and everyone lives separately. In my former neighborhood there are stabbings and shootings literally every week, if not every day. Just this week a woman was brutally raped and murdered in a "park" built for several million dollars outside my neighborhood. There is no common culture, and no trust. Why should anyone follow the law or contribute, if everyone else is stealing and doesn't give a shit? See: Crooked Hillary.

3) Rule of law is gone. The constitution is meaningless. Historians will remember 9/11 as the tipping point where Rome (woops, USA) fell. The government is spying on us through our computers, cellphones, and televisions, and yet we aren't even allowed to talk about crime or terrorism without getting censored as bigoted right wingers. We have hard evidence Bush started an illegal war that cost thousands of lives, yet he is free. Obama sends robots to bomb funerals in countries no one has heard of. Hillary wants to just get rid of our borders and dissolve the idea of having a nation altogether. Nearly half the population agrees with her!

4) Most Americans are stupid as fuck, with no knowledge of history, government, politics, science, or anything else.

What could Trump possibly do to reverse these trends without becoming a despot? I would never start a family in the US, at least not in the area I lived in.

When I see people posting pictures of 1950's America with happy, sane families living in safe communities, I have to ask: is that ever going to come back? Yet that's exactly what I have here in Poland. Normal people. Beautiful women. Happy families with children. Women can walk back at 2 or 3 am from a party and never have to fear getting raped or killed.

"Never say never." Maybe I'll be back. I was born in the US and that part of me will never leave. Yet every time I go, it's only getting worse. And every time I go, I know where I'm not welcome.

The hatred of Trump is emblematic of one thing: the hatred America has for males right now, especially headstrong ones. They don't want us, so I won't be spilling one more drop of sweat or blood for a country that could care less if I live or die.
 
AFS said:
I already left the US, so the question is: would I go back if Trump wins?

While I would certainly be happy if he won, I would never go back to the states. I know some may criticize me for a lack of patriotism, or for being a pessimistic nihilist, but the idea of what the nation of USA is supposed to be is dead and I don't see it coming back. Please forgive me in advance for my pessimism, but:

The problems in the US are so deep seated, it would take nothing short of a revolution to change them. And revolutions are bloody, and often take decades to recover from (or never).

There are millions upon millions of people in the US who will never contribute to society. Period. Take the housing block I grew up in as an example. About 15 thousand people live there, and a majority are on government assistance. Government pays for rent, food, and their kids and/or abortions. Most of those who are unemployed will never work. Those who do work have government jobs or services jobs. So literally, they produce nothing. No factories, no products, no idea, nada. And even if they wanted to (which they don't), they are not even able to speak or do math. How will they contribute to a functioning society?

Will Trump come in and cut off benefits for these people? Will he make the two-party system illegal? Will he enact campaign finance reform so others can run for office who aren't millionaires or backed by millionaires? He would, no joke, have to be the Hitler or Stalin people imagine him to be to make those sort of changes. Someone with completely cold blood, able to look at the slate and wipe it clean, no matter how many people get hurt.

Certainly things will improve. But nothing changes as for the main reasons I left:

1) Healthcare. There will never be universal healthcare, because there is no way to pay for it. As previously mentioned, there are millions of parasites in the US who don't contribute anything to society. Not only that, they drink, do drugs, and eat fast food nonstop, so they are in desperate need of constant medical care by about 50-60. Obamacare is a disaster where injured people are forced to go to overcrowded 3rd world hispitals. If you have a job, your $500-$1000 insurance doesn't cover shit. You pay every time you see the doctor, and for every medication and procedure.

I refuse to live in a country where I'm working full time and die when I get sick because I can't get proper care.

2) Culture and society. Everyone hates each other. There is no such thing as "Americans" anymore, except in the minds of 40 year old Italian cops. People vote along tribal lines and could care less about what is best for the country. Blacks hate whites, hispanics hate blacks, etc, and everyone lives separately. In my former neighborhood there are stabbings and shootings literally every week, if not every day. Just this week a woman was brutally raped and murdered in a "park" built for several million dollars outside my neighborhood. There is no common culture, and no trust. Why should anyone follow the law or contribute, if everyone else is stealing and doesn't give a shit? See: Crooked Hillary.

3) Rule of law is gone. The constitution is meaningless. Historians will remember 9/11 as the tipping point where Rome (woops, USA) fell. The government is spying on us through our computers, cellphones, and televisions, and yet we aren't even allowed to talk about crime or terrorism without getting censored as bigoted right wingers. We have hard evidence Bush started an illegal war that cost thousands of lives, yet he is free. Obama sends robots to bomb funerals in countries no one has heard of. Hillary wants to just get rid of our borders and dissolve the idea of having a nation altogether. Nearly half the population agrees with her!

4) Most Americans are stupid as fuck, with no knowledge of history, government, politics, science, or anything else.

What could Trump possibly do to reverse these trends without becoming a despot? I would never start a family in the US, at least not in the area I lived in.

When I see people posting pictures of 1950's America with happy, sane families living in safe communities, I have to ask: is that ever going to come back? Yet that's exactly what I have here in Poland. Normal people. Beautiful women. Happy families with children. Women can walk back at 2 or 3 am from a party and never have to fear getting raped or killed.

"Never say never." Maybe I'll be back. I was born in the US and that part of me will never leave. Yet every time I go, it's only getting worse. And every time I go, I know where I'm not welcome.

The hatred of Trump is emblematic of one thing: the hatred America has for males right now, especially headstrong ones. They don't want us, so I won't be spilling one more drop of sweat or blood for a country that could care less if I live or die.
I agree with pretty much everything you said and have felt the same way for a very long time.

Although, where are you from originally? I have lived all over the US and what you described is NOT all of the US. I know... I've seen and have lived in exactly what you are talking about BUT I have also lived in something more akin to 1950s stereotypical America as well where sense of community exists and not every ethnic/racial line is at odds with each other. Places where you CAN walk home late at night and be fine. The problem is, these aren't places you can live AND work unless you have some sort of independent income or are willing to compromise on work/lifestyle opportunities.

You are dead on about how America hates men, particularly headstrong ones. It's one of my biggest motivations to peace out and if Hillary wins, it's going to blow up a 100 times worse as I outlined in my original post.

There is no guarantee a Trump administration can fix what needs to be fixed. But Trump gives me hope for a better tomorrow and that the culture is at least open to making a shift in the right direction.
 

Slam

Woodpecker
AFS you are dead on with these points.

Most Americans (especially younger ones) are completely ignorant of the principles that founded the country, or the people that did it.

Even more recently, they are ignorant of even how things were pre-9/11.

Beyond this though, cultural Marxism has had ideological control of the education system for several decades now, and only gets worse and worse each generation. Most Americans believe if there is any problem in their lives or in society, that the federal government should 'do something'. The masses now are Marxist by belief.

Roosh tweeted awhile back how shocking it is that simply stating a mainstream political position from 50 years ago will now have you labeled as a bigot / racist and totally ostracized.

It is a society-wide train wreck. A Trump victory might delay the inevitable for a few years (I hope he does), but the USA as it was originally intended is long gone.

AFS said:
...
3) Rule of law is gone. The constitution is meaningless. Historians will remember 9/11 as the tipping point where Rome (woops, USA) fell...

4) Most Americans are stupid as fuck, with no knowledge of history, government, politics, science, or anything else
...
 

AFS

Woodpecker
The Black Knight said:
Although, where are you from originally? I have lived all over the US and what you described is NOT all of the US.
You're right, and apologies for being so bombastic (I usually don't post when drunk, but shit happens). I grew up in a major inner-city and that has drastically influenced my perspective. I've traveled extensively in the US and there are still many nice communities that look like they were stuck in time.

As you mentioned, often the problem is that these areas are economically protected due to property taxes. For example, on my last visit I traveled to Sands Point in Long Island, NY. Beautiful homes, no garbage, people are jogging and having BBQ. However, houses cost over a million easily, not counting yearly property tax. People here commute 2+ hours to their jobs in Manhattan. So basically they work all year nonstop, only spending time with their families on weekends, to live in a safe neighborhood.

Hopefully with a Trump presidency more lower and middle income neighborhoods can start to look like this.

262 said:
I also already left the West.
Really regret that I missed the RVF world meetups. I hope Roosh organizes another, I'd love to meet some of the members and expats here in Poland.
 

El Chinito loco

Crow
Gold Member
AFS said:
3) Rule of law is gone. The constitution is meaningless. Historians will remember 9/11 as the tipping point where Rome (woops, USA) fell. The government is spying on us through our computers, cellphones, and televisions, and yet we aren't even allowed to talk about crime or terrorism without getting censored as bigoted right wingers. We have hard evidence Bush started an illegal war that cost thousands of lives, yet he is free. Obama sends robots to bomb funerals in countries no one has heard of. Hillary wants to just get rid of our borders and dissolve the idea of having a nation altogether. Nearly half the population agrees with her!
This is what troubles me about the U.S. the most. I feel that even if Hillary doesn't get elected that U.S. Democracy has been fundamentally damaged with these revelations about how far down the rabbit hole goes. People on the left in particular are openly dismissing outright corruption as if it's nothing. The "this is how the sausage is made" comment is everywhere on reddit and in the mainstream media. People are making excuses for blatant corruption.

The infiltration of Saudi oil money and various other foreign influences from the top down in U.S. politics is deeply troubling too. This election more than ever has shown how rigged everything is and how deeply involved the media (including social media) is in pulling the wool over the public's eyes. The new money "elite" absolutely do not give two shits about democratic principles. Guys like Zuckerberg and the google founders use their money to exert control over the public. They want to harness their technology to rein in your free will rather than making it a tool for actual progress.

All this fundamentally damages the principles in which the U.S. is founded on. As I said before if the U.S. is no longer a democratic nation then what the hell is it exactly? What is patriotism if the very country's ideals are far corrupted from the original intent.


4) Most Americans are stupid as fuck, with no knowledge of history, government, politics, science, or anything else.
Most people in every country are ignorant. The problem is that Americans do not have any kind of unifying ethnonationalist identity to fall back on. As you said before people are divided by identity politcs and carefully crafted hierarchies.

When the basic founding ideology is fractured then America is fractured and broken. Full stop. This is the problem with "multiculturalist" societies. When they are broken it will be extremely difficult to put all these disparate pieces back together again.

I don't believe the U.S. will fall for some time yet but if it is weakened considerably the power vacuum will be substantial. The worst thing imaginable would be if Western Europe is gradually taken over by islam in the meantime with a small cabal of elites at the helm and that is what fills part of that vacuum. This is the future nightmare scenario everyone should be wary of.
 

Jaydublin

Pelican
The Beast1 said:
Hillary will not win. The polls mean jack.

Look at Brexit. They can massage the polls all they want, heck they can even do some voter fraud as well.

Republicans will come out by the droves and blow her out of the water. There isn't anyway she'll be winning.

There will be more leaks, just wait. Wikileaks has the 30,000 missing emails.
I agree. Swing states are full of White middle class workers who never vote because while they are somewhat conservative they don't connect with the John McCains and Mitt Romneys. GWB was easier for them to connect to.

These people have either never voted or not voted in a long time, they are the people filling up Trumps rallies and they will be voting come rain or shine. They are fired up and excited to take part.

Hillary does not have a following like this. She will get her reliable democratic voters for sure but she won't pull new blood in. Trump will pull reliable republican voters and the new blood while either splitting or winning with independents.

Polls do not cover these normally non voters who are as reliable as anybody in 2016.
 

Adonis

Pelican
Gold Member
Samseau said:
Don't kid yourselves. Hillary will rule with tyranny and your lives will be hell. She is above the law.
I wasn't sure where to put this (or maybe post in its own thread) but I came upon it yesterday and it is pretty ominous considering that the precedent has been set under Clinton I and Obama for a lot of this stuff. I don't see how anyone can see what has happened with the democratic primary, the Obama admin, and what has come to light via WikiLeaks and Gary Byrne's book and stick their heads in the sand. If elected, she will usher in the most corrupt and tyrannical administration this country has ever seen.

Madame President Clinton's coming war on the blogosphere

James Wesley said:
Now that Hillary (“Hitlery”) Rodham Clinton (HRC) has received the Democratic Party nomination for president, there is a strong likelihood that she will win the election in November and then be enthroned as president in January of 2017. I predict that she willwaste no time in launching an onslaught of punitive new policies via executive orders, presidential memoranda, and policy directives promulgated through her cabinet and Federal agencies to eviscerate our Constitutional rights (most notably the 1st and 2nd Amendments). A key goal this campaign will be silencing dissent in the alternative press and the American blogosphere. Given HRC’s history in government “service”, her outlook on life, her socialist agenda, and her vindictiveness, I anticipate that any or all of the following measures will be undertaken by the HRC Administration:

The Department of Justice (DOJ) will be used to selectively prosecute dissenters for “hate speech”. For instance, simply objecting to illegal immigration or state sponsored relocation of Muslims will be called “evidence of hate.” They will also declare blogs, news sites, and podcasts to be “public accommodations” and hence saddle them with a long list of new restrictions that would effectively muzzle them from making any comments opposed to HRC’s agenda and “protected” classes. Even the use of “trigger words” could be restricted.

The Securities Exchange Commission (SEC) will be used to target dissenters who make any comments about any corporations, mutual funds, or banks, for “operating as unregistered investment advisors”.

The Federal Election Commission (FEC) will be used to target Libertarians and other dissenters for “unlawful campaigning”.

The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) will use their newly-assumed powers over the Internet to enforce a new radicalized version of the moribund Fairness Doctrine upon bloggers, vloggers (video bloggers), podcasters, as well as newspapermen, magazine writers, and talk radio hosts. Under this new and improved fairness policy, any media outlet that is deemed a public accommodation will be forced to free of charge provide equal space to assorted perverts, leftists, and Social Justice Warriors. Failure to do so will open up these news outlets to both criminal prosecution and costly civil lawsuits.

The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) will be used to selectively audit tax filings, levy bank accounts, garnish wages, and refer criminal prosecution of anyone who voices dissent of HRC’s statist/collectivist agenda. Lois Lerner’s group was just the precursor!

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) will be used to target dissenters who own property with seasonal puddles that could be deemed “wetlands” or creeks that could be arbitrarily declared “navigable waters”.
The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and the Customs and Border Protection (CBP) agency will be used to target dissenters living within 50 miles of the Mexican or Canadian borders for harassment and intimidation, searching their homes without warrants.

The Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) and associated Tribal Police will be used to target dissenters living within 100 miles of any Tribal Reservation for harassment and intimidation.

The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) will crack down on any bloggers who make posts that might be construed as a product review or product endorsement.

The Transportation Security Agency (TSA) will be used to limit the travel of anyone deemed by HRC’s cronies to be an Enemy of the State (through expansion of the No Fly List, Terror Watch List, and Selectee List).

The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) and the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) will crack down on producers of raw milk and nutritional supplements (and also on the bloggers who promote them).

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) will prosecute anyone operating unlicensed drones weighing more than just a few ounces.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) will use both its own agents and paid (or coerced) surrogate agent provocateurs to infiltrate militias, patriot groups, and secessionist organizations. There, they will foment schemes that can be prosecuted under loosely-worded Federal conspiracy laws. (This is precisely what was done with the Bundy Ranch and Malheur Wildlife Refuge protestors.)

Working in conjunction with the FCC, the U.S. Coast Guard will board any ship within Territorial Waters that they suspect of operating an unlicensed transmitter.
 
AFS said:
The Black Knight said:
Although, where are you from originally? I have lived all over the US and what you described is NOT all of the US.
You're right, and apologies for being so bombastic (I usually don't post when drunk, but shit happens). I grew up in a major inner-city and that has drastically influenced my perspective. I've traveled extensively in the US and there are still many nice communities that look like they were stuck in time.

As you mentioned, often the problem is that these areas are economically protected due to property taxes. For example, on my last visit I traveled to Sands Point in Long Island, NY. Beautiful homes, no garbage, people are jogging and having BBQ. However, houses cost over a million easily, not counting yearly property tax. People here commute 2+ hours to their jobs in Manhattan. So basically they work all year nonstop, only spending time with their families on weekends, to live in a safe neighborhood.

Hopefully with a Trump presidency more lower and middle income neighborhoods can start to look like this.
Haha no need to apologize man.

But Long Island isn't a good example of what I mean; it's one of the most expensive areas in the country to live in. But there are PLENTY of places in this country where you can financially access good neighborhoods without needing to have elite money to do so. Places where you can buy a nice single family home for 130-200k in a good neighborhood with reasonable taxes.

Again, the trade off is that the money/career/lifestyle opportunities are not nearly as extensive. However, there are some places that DO hit the sweet spot of affordable real estate in good communities AND have decent lifestyle/career opportunities. Feel free to PM me if you want to bounce around some ideas.
 

Nascimento

Ostrich
Gold Member
http://www.rooshv.com/if-donald-trump-doesnt-win-were-screwed


I'm an optimist at heart, but if Trump loses, I think things could go from being disadvantageous to seriously ugly quick.

Barring very few exceptions, I think leaving the West would be the best option. At worst taking a bit longer here to establish some skill that can be taken abroad to sustain a livelihood elsewhere. Who knows... Let's hope things go well this November.
 

Guile

Robin
The Beast1 said:
Hillary will not win. The polls mean jack.

Look at Brexit. They can massage the polls all they want, heck they can even do some voter fraud as well.

Republicans will come out by the droves and blow her out of the water. There isn't anyway she'll be winning.

There will be more leaks, just wait. Wikileaks has the 30,000 missing emails.
Dear God I hope you're right. The world is in a time capsule right now. In my job, I'm censored in virtually everything I say to the point that I can't even do my job properly. If this continues… If things can get worse… It would be a nightmare.
 
We already live in Hysterical Hillary's world. Nothing would really change. Donald J Trump would be a change in direction. Either way I will stay right where I am at making money and dealing with the decline. Move because you don't like the president?
Reactionary and immature, if you asked me.
 
There are millions upon millions of people in the US who will never contribute to society. Period.

.......

1) Healthcare. There will never be universal healthcare, because there is no way to pay for it. As previously mentioned, there are millions of parasites in the US who don't contribute anything to society. Not only that, they drink, do drugs, and eat fast food nonstop, so they are in desperate need of constant medical care by about 50-60. Obamacare is a disaster where injured people are forced to go to overcrowded 3rd world hispitals. If you have a job, your $500-$1000 insurance doesn't cover shit. You pay every time you see the doctor, and for every medication and procedure.

Agree with what you said. I was in USA for 4 years and I left for France. Then I realized I just traded one devil for another (when has it not been so anyway?)

It's actually funny because the points above about parasites and healthcare are exactly what plague France since way longer than in USA. Yet for some reason this country "still" survives, when it should have collapsed long ago.

2) Culture and society. Everyone hates each other. There is no such thing as "Americans" anymore, except in the minds of 40 year old Italian cops
.

Same thing in France. Population got so mixed and tensions so high the government decided to ban all statistics on race. Patriotism is gone except for a few pockets like the Front National. Unless there's a terror attack most Parisians would never say "proud to be French". The only thing preventing a cultural collapse is a deep rooted and long running culture since A.D

3) Rule of law is gone.
Where in the world can we really expect rule of law? In Russia or SEA countries money = law, so you better be damn rich if you go there.

4) Most Americans are stupid as fuck, with no knowledge of history, government, politics, science, or anything else.
I would say most of Europeans too. Though they might know a little bit more than the average American, what little history/art they know is liberal doctrinated. I've not met one single Frenchmen aside from Going Strong who is proud of Louis 14 or Napoleon. People here seem to prefer disgusting modern art than the finely sculpted statues in the Louvre.

Others have said this, but if you want to leave, where are you gonna go unless you have decent money? That and you better damn well speak the language. An Anglo country will be no better.

At least in America you can own guns (which are getting taken away). I'm enjoying the last day in France knowing full well that if shit goes haywire I'm totally fucked.

I dont think things will get badshit insane in USA, at worst its gonna be a gradual decline to somewhat the same condition Europe is currently in (without the wine, good food and thin women :D )
 

Giovonny

Crow
Gold Member
Nascimento said:
http://www.rooshv.com/if-donald-trump-doesnt-win-were-screwed


I'm an optimist at heart, but if Trump loses, I think things could go from being disadvantageous to seriously ugly quick.

Barring very few exceptions, I think leaving the West would be the best option. At worst taking a bit longer here to establish some skill that can be taken abroad to sustain a livelihood elsewhere. Who knows... Let's hope things go well this November.
 
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