If you had to choose Obama or Romney

Choose Obama or Romney

  • Obama

    Votes: 80 64.5%
  • Romney

    Votes: 44 35.5%

  • Total voters
    124
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Roustabout

Sparrow
Manabout - nice work. I'm not going to admit Obama is correct on this issue, but thanks for the article link. I'm still voting Romney.

You might also like this link and the companion article referenced wihttp://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444914904577619672512345362.htmlthin:
Both present an interesting, to me, discussion of "entitlements" in the U.S.
 

Smitty

Kingfisher
ManAbout said:
That lie has been debunked over and over and over again.

As I said, if you watched anything other than Fox news and Dick Morris, you might actually get another viewpoint. It's an outright lie. The changes were requested by the state Governors including Republicans.

Try to think for yourself once in a while instead of filling your brain with right wing talking points and regurgitating them.

I'm no fan of fox news, and you're spot on about Republicans lying about the Medicare issue, but what other news source should he use? MSNBC? CNN?

People love to shit on Fox News, but give us an alternative that is an unbiased U.S. news source.
 

speakeasy

Peacock
Gold Member
Smitty said:
I'm no fan of fox news, and you're spot on about Republicans lying about the Medicare issue, but what other news source should he use? MSNBC? CNN?

People love to shit on Fox News, but give us an alternative that is an unbiased U.S. news source.

The Economist is good. Not a U.S. source of course, but I think that gives them an air fr objectivity about our internal affairs that you may not get from U.S. media. I find their analysis to usually be clear, and well-presented. Here is a good article on Obama's tract record.

---

Interesting article I just came across:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/07/15/are-millennials-the-screwed-generation.html

The libertarian Tyler Cowen, in his landmark work The Great Stagnation, makes many of the same points, claiming that the U.S. “frontier” has closed both technologically and in terms of human capital and resources. He maintains that we’ve already harvested “the low-hanging fruit” and that we now rest on a “technological plateau,” making any future economic progress difficult to achieve. Stagnation is not such a bad thing for people already established in college-campus jobs, think tanks, or powerful financial institutions. But it wipes out the hope for the new generation that they can achieve anything resembling the American Dream of their parents or even grandparents.

Inevitably, young people are delaying their leap into adulthood. Nearly a third of people between 18 and 34 have put off marriage or having a baby due to the recession, and a quarter have moved back to their parents’ homes, according to a Pew study. These decisions have helped cut the birthrate by 11 percent by 2011, while the marriage rate slumped 6.8 percent. The baby-boom echo generation could propel historically fecund America toward the kind of demographic disaster already evident in parts of Europe and Japan.

The worst effects of the “new normal” can be seen among noncollege graduates. Conservative analysts such as Charles Murray point out the deterioration of family life—as measured by illegitimacy and low marriage rates—among working-class whites; among white American women with only a high-school education, 44 percent of births are out of wedlock, up from 6 percent in 1970. With incomes dropping and higher unemployment, Murray predicts the emergence of a growing “white underclass” in the coming decade.



I think people have to come to grips with reality. The stagnation in the economy that we have seen for decades with regards to wealth expansion for the middle class is not likely to change. And there is little any elected official an do about that. The boomers had a great run and they were at the right place at the right time where ideal circumstances for prosperity converged. Our mistake may be in assuming that this period was normal and making it the standard for all future generations. Of course any presidential hopeful that went on the podium and said that would tank in the polls, even if it's hard reality...nobody wants to swallow the red pill. There may be very little to nothing that government can do to make things as prosperous for millennials as it was for boomers. The democrats can only offer deficit spending and creating more government jobs, the republicans want to lower taxes in the hope it will create jobs. It doesn't seem to me that either will have much effect. Obama's promise of green jobs was a pipe dream. Creating infrastructure jobs for the sake of doing so is a colossal waste, such as this high speed rail they are trying to build in California with federal funds. A rail that will go pretty much nowhere. The republican's reflexive solution to everything is lower taxes on the rich and corporations and magically their prosperity will trickle down to everyone(yeah fuckin right!). Corporations have already been back to profitability since 2008. If they aren't hiring by now it's because they've adapted by squeezing more productivity out of each worker. There is not enough demand in the economy to spawn hiring in any great numbers. Boomers are not retiring fast enough to make room for younger employees, yet when they do retire the young generation, already saddled with college debt will be supporting them.

As a realist I don't expect either president to be able to "create jobs" in any significant number. My expectations are pretty low at this point and all I am looking for right now is the one will make things somewhat less painful for the average person in this economy. To me that person is Barack Obama. I know people like Romney couldn't give a shit less about whether people are thrown off their insurance provider for pre-existing conditions. At least on things like that, Obama's heart is in the right place.

Edit --

Another issue to throw out there. I wonder how much the economy has played a role in the rise of the game movement? The game movement being a reaction itself to the increasing difficulty men have found in dating, sexing and finding relationships with women, particularly from the mid 2000s forward. Is the economic squeeze causing women to become more hypergamous than ever? For a guy that's in the 1%, it must be a gold mine out there right now because I know so many guys that are struggling to make ends meet.
 

kosko

Peacock
Gold Member
Infrastructure is a solid investment but the Government needs to build roads, bridges, damns and rail not re-pave roads with tar and had people shovels to dig some dirt. Infrastructure enables economic expansion and America like Canada like-wise is in a defecit. America needs $2.2 Trillion which is pennies in comparison to the fluff of monopoly money we gave to Wall Street which does nothing for the real economy other then generate "profits" on a computer screen.

The fact of the matter is and what your getting at Speakeasy is that the economy is overinfalted and does not represent anything tangible or real. 65% of the American ecnomy is consumer-based, with large chunks bogged up in "finance" and the Military. This is why 2008 sucked so bad because the only fuel for consumers... debt.. was tapped dry.

The economy ever since has been trying to correct itself and contract but the Govt can't let that happen because as tough as it is (debts harder to pay, unemployment skyrockets as labor is re-organized naturally) it is generally quicker and less painful then letting things continue on the current path which would lead to a cataclysmic economic explosion down the road.

To give you an idea of how warped things are: Agricultre... America is one of the leading farming countries world wide, tangible production of crops, cereal, and foods yet it only makes up 1.2% of GDP (??:huh:??). America literally feeds half the world being the dominant grain and cereal exporter globally and yet that is less then 2% of the economy. This has not changed much as America has been a leader in Agriculture for nearly 50 years, but back then the scope of it whiten the economy was more around 23%. Manufacturing only around 14% these are real things. Stuff like Finance and Miltary expentatures are black pitts in the economy and represent no real production or wealth generation. They just inflate charts and figures.

There are no more jobs to be "created" the economy can't support it as the boomers grey out the economy will contract. It has tried to contract for nearly 20+ years but polticitans keep on aiding new bubbles to re-inflate the mess even more. By creating Govt jobs and issuing more Govt debt.

Places like China lead ahead because they re-invest profits into tangible goods and large sectors of their economy still produce stuff that actually has value. China has its own problems and is far from perfect but just adding that to a contrast of the USA.

Politicians will try and sell you that they can get to the "good days" of Clinton or Bush but those days are long gone. They were just bubbles and nothing more. Wages have no increased nor has actual personal wealth.. just debt. The good old days were before the boomers, their parents whom created the single greatest generation of wealth (real wealth) generation in human history. Globally not just the USA during the time after WWII was exponentially growing at such and unseen rate and this was all real wealth due to the limits of credit creation which was able to take place due to Bretton Woods and other measures.

The great contraction of the economy will be the issue that our generation has to tackle,and the test is if we go down the typical paths of lunacy towards totalitarianism, and extremism - or if we break the mold and actually find a viable solution.

Anytime a politicians says he is going to "create jobs" he is full of shit and is selling snake oil. They only way jobs can be "created" right now is via debt. Only dievent sectors of the economy are growing rapidly right now (jails, debt collection, wall mart) these do not create prosperity.

Wal-Mart having record profits is not good for America, fuck what CNBC says. Wal-mart in the red is good for America.

For jobs.. they will come with the continued water-down of the dollar and the return of low wage manual jobs. But all that is moot if costs of living still rise. Its a snake eat tail situation. In the coming years you will see expansions to manufacturing because of this, cheaper wages and cheap credit for new technology should help them out but this is still far from ideal.

What would be ideal if Obama or Romney had some balls to say things how they really are. But how can we blame them? They are just telling the people what they want to hear. Are politicians only represent the ideals of the people. If American people by in large are morally bankrupt, think they are entitled to and deserve more then they need, and are to impatient then their politicians will be also.
 

kosko

Peacock
Gold Member
Samseau said:


Oooooops. Not the first time a politico made a promise they could not keep though.

There will be cuts in this next term regardless of whom is in office. Obama IMO will cut deeper. Many many not share that view but lets not forget it was Clinton whom slashed and burned social programs to dust, to the point where people on food stamps have to survive on like 25$ a week for a small family. So I see no reason Obama, still with Clinton-era creeps huddled around him would not do the same.

As far as reaching deficits totals with those cuts is another story. Austerity and deep cuts never work. Its the easiest thing to do but it just makes bigger deficits.

The easy targets of Govt workers won't be touched again mostly for slash and burn cuts as it would explode unemployment figures

In his first term Obama went looking under the couch covers and bled dry NASA, reduced Govt workers by 2.6%, and did not return Ethanol subsidies. But these were just a drop in the bucket.

What do you guys think will Romney or Obama go after?
 

soup

Owl
Gold Member
Based on this poll, it looks like players are choosing Obama in a landslide, 48/18.

What do all you feminists out there have to say now?
 

kosko

Peacock
Gold Member
soup said:
Based on this poll, it looks like players are choosing Obama in a landslide, 48/18.

What do all you feminists out there have to say now?

Obama is beta as hell but he is a entertainer and knows how to talk well. Biden would seal the deal on hoes after Obama warms them up... dudes a strait up asshole Alpha.

I think Biden is a lug-nut but I would want to have a scotch with him. He'd be dropping lines like nothing:

"The whores that ran around DC in the 80's.. I tell you man. The place was crawling with them, back then DC was fucking cool man."

"..And then the The prince of Qatar, just drops this huge shit in the meeting suite and just stinks up the place... I'm like dude you ain't that hot now are ya!...'my shit don't stink'.. your shit dooooes stink buddy" ... "He just gets this puzzled look on his face and says he did not understand my English.. I'm like fuck you buddy I heard you order a meal perfectly like 30 mins ago"

*Blackberry rings* "Fuck..This is why I have three phones.. I got this fling in Panama they don't know about, she's 27!.. you fucking believe that! Shes younger then your ass buddy, and she fucks like she's 19!"

"Man Big B is so whipped by his Michelle, like she picks out what ties he wears each day... I tell him to man up and get something on the side but hes to 'faithful and true'" ... "like come on buddy you work in DC, nobody is faithful and true in this fucking town."

Romney is Mormon and by default would count out 80% of women. Ryan is a schlub...Biden for game 1000%

** Edit and now I thought this guy SOUP was talking about Game not the election.. whoooops.
 

Pacesetter20

Kingfisher
Gold Member
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But, if you held a gun to my head, Romney. If for anything a known evil is worse than an unknown evil.
 

Vicious

Crow
Gold Member
The Economist had an interesting piece last week on how Romney is now against all the views and positions he held while being a governor. While it's obvious that a candidate has to align his platform with the party's when running for president what's happened here is that Romney is just the packaging while other interests are supplying the message.
 

ElJefe

Pelican
For me, it's simple.

Obama had his shot with one party rule, Krugman's ideas and a Newer Deal. He probably hoped to be the next FDR. Fine. Nice try. Didn't work out, gave it your best, now beat it.

NEXT!
 

LoveBug

Kingfisher
Catholic
Another problem with the two party system is that there is hardly any way one party is going to satisfy all your ideals... when there are two parties you have to gravitate to who you feel best about and suck up aspects you dont like
 

speakeasy

Peacock
Gold Member
LoveBug said:
Another problem with the two party system is that there is hardly any way one party is going to satisfy all your ideals... when there are two parties you have to gravitate to who you feel best about and suck up aspects you dont like

Except for the genuine cheerleaders of their respective party, that's always going to be the case. They have to cast a wide net in order to get a plurality of the vote and not everyone is going to have all their views represented.

But what do we propose as an alternative? Let's say we have a Ron Paul party and whoever gets the most votes wins. That would mean a party could win with only 34% of the vote, effectively pissing off the other 66% of the country. If you had four parties, one could win with only 26% of the vote to the chagrin of the other 74%. In Europe where you have multi-party coalition governments, there's still a lot of compromise.

I just don't expect that I'm ever going to have a party that represents all of my views. It's impossible.

-- Edit --

Just watched Clinton's speech. That was maybe the most effective speech of his career. Masterfully crafted and delivered. He has a way of attacking his opponents while at the same time seeming charming. It was exactly the tone needed to pull in swing voters. I also think it had a good amount of substance as well in comparing the economic policies of the Democrats and Republicans. That was a tough act to follow but if anyone can top that, it's Obama. Can't wait to see what he's got to say tomorrow.
 

Tex Pro

Ostrich
Gold Member
ElJefe said:
For me, it's simple.

Obama had his shot with one party rule, Krugman's ideas and a Newer Deal. He probably hoped to be the next FDR. Fine. Nice try. Didn't work out, gave it your best, now beat it.

NEXT!

This is exactly how I feel. Obama had his shot and blew it. Time for a real change.
 

OGNorCal707

 
Banned
The Texas Prophet said:
ElJefe said:
For me, it's simple.

Obama had his shot with one party rule, Krugman's ideas and a Newer Deal. He probably hoped to be the next FDR. Fine. Nice try. Didn't work out, gave it your best, now beat it.

NEXT!

This is exactly how I feel. Obama had his shot and blew it. Time for a real change.


Yeah and real change is going to come from Mitt Romney? I'm not buying it.
 
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