Incoming Bitcoin crash

Maciano

Kingfisher
The Beast1 said:
Maciano said:
Those actions will crash the price, but bitcoin will slowly recover as governments will not act in unison. You just need to go to a country that still hasn't outlawed bitcoins to sell them for local fiat; I'm also sure sites like localbitcoins will proliferate, so you can always go to local bitcoin dealer to convert any time you like.

I wouldn't bet too much on those loopholes staying open forever. The US can and has previously locked out other countries from the US powered global financial system. A concerted global effort to prevent fiat to coin exchanges would be a death blow.

A local illicit BTC dealer isn't going to be giving you $15k or even $1k for your coins if this scenario occurs. It will probably be a lot lot less. And no, unlike illegal drugs which have inherit value because they get you high, crypto coins don't have the same utility.

As Gmac said, it's a gold rush. Get your slice and get out.

You might be right. Nothing lasts. Then again, I got in for the money, but I stayed for the revolution. I want bankers, central banks, economists, media financial experts and governments to suffer and look like the fools & scammers they are. We need a better system than we have right now.

On the second, I have a fixed exit price. I had one when I got in, early 2013. It's 40K. We'll reach that this bull-run, or somewhere next year. If not, I won't be a bitch and cry about it.

I already checked out money to start a business and pay off my student loans. I'm fine regardless.
 

The Beast1

Peacock
Gold Member
Maciano said:
The Beast1 said:
Maciano said:
Those actions will crash the price, but bitcoin will slowly recover as governments will not act in unison. You just need to go to a country that still hasn't outlawed bitcoins to sell them for local fiat; I'm also sure sites like localbitcoins will proliferate, so you can always go to local bitcoin dealer to convert any time you like.

I wouldn't bet too much on those loopholes staying open forever. The US can and has previously locked out other countries from the US powered global financial system. A concerted global effort to prevent fiat to coin exchanges would be a death blow.

A local illicit BTC dealer isn't going to be giving you $15k or even $1k for your coins if this scenario occurs. It will probably be a lot lot less. And no, unlike illegal drugs which have inherit value because they get you high, crypto coins don't have the same utility.

As Gmac said, it's a gold rush. Get your slice and get out.

You might be right. Nothing lasts. Then again, I got in for the money, but I stayed for the revolution. I want bankers, central banks, economists, media financial experts and governments to suffer and look like the fools & scammers they are. We need a better system than we have right now.

On the second, I have a fixed exit price. I had one when I got in, early 2013. It's 40K. We'll reach that this bull-run, or somewhere next year. If not, I won't be a bitch and cry about it.

I already checked out money to start a business and pay off my student loans. I'm fine regardless.

Amen! I already made my cash a long time ago, but missed out the run from 7k to 15k.

But, I follow the old adage, "He who has the guns and gold, makes the rules" and unfortunately the folks you mention above have all of that in spades. They'll definitely be made fools, but that's all they will be made.
 

Maciano

Kingfisher
I don't think the end is near, either. I think we'll go over 20K soon.

2018 will be qua projects & developments the best year for bitcoin ever. By far. Rootstock, Lightning, etc. ETF's. So many things.

I'm not sure if this will translate into the price, though. But legitimacy will increase *a lot*.
 

rottenapple

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Someone on the forum posted this link: https://www.theautomaticearth.com/2017/12/bitcoin-doesnt-exist-the-full-story/

This article really breaks down a lot of the concept of both the blockchain and bitcoin/ethereum/altcoins. It's a long read and sometimes a bit technical but it really opened my eyes to the possibilities. It shows how there can be a long term future for all of them and even how they might completely replace the erroneous financial system we have today. It also details that it will be very difficult for any government to really take down this new evolution.

No one can be certain about what will happen, but saying that a crash is bound to happen soon is also just speculation. We might never go beneath a 1000 or even 10.000 anymore. The fact is we don't know, because it's completely new. The only thing any of us can do is really read into it, understand the logic behind it and then for yourself determine if this is what you yourself would prefer in the future, see the possibility for this system to become dominant in some time from now or believe the opposite and then make bets on whichever of both.
 

Samseau

Owl
Orthodox
Gold Member
Maciano said:
You clearly haven't been thinking this stuff through.

1) The word "crypto" is a red herring. There's bitcoin, and then there are scamcoins. All these non-bitcoin cryptos are useless, senseless and long term worthless. Bitcoin, however, is useful, valuable, sensible and valuable.

Non-bitcoin cryptos combined are a worse investment than fiat because they proliferate like rabbits and are indeed hyperinflationary. That has nothing to do with bitcoin.

2) National crypto is a contradiction in terms. Cryptos are designed to be denationalized, global. A national crypto is complete nonsense. It is so ridiculous an idea that it can only come from a government agency.

3) The whole idea behind bitcoin is that it can't be censored. It can't be banned, because you can't ban P2P systems, especially when you use them smart and safe. Just like governments can't ban bittorrent. Also, bitcoin can be send by satellite, radio, USB stick or the internet -- transmission methods are endless. It's unstoppable, unless the internet gets switched off completely. But even then, it's doubtful.

How is Bitcoin any better than Monero? Monero actually provides security, Bitcoin is a just a slow overpriced coin that rides on hype. Bitcoin will get taxed and regulated to death, and people will wonder why they ever bought it in the first place.
 

NewMeta

Kingfisher

This video is just 5 minutes long and I urge anyone heavy in bitcoin to watch and learn what you are getting yourself into in the future.

Lightning network is just bringing the banking system to Bitcoin, it will be regulated, it will have KYC so they know who you are, and it won't be decentralised or even be Bitcoin. This is (((BTC))) how it will be soon enough. If I had to speculate over a crash, it would be because people finally realize Bitcoin Cash is in fact, the actual Bitcoin, and a so called flippening happens as a result.

At all else protect yourselves by diversifying because it is highly likely all the money you think you made could be worthless overnight.
 

CleanSlate

Hummingbird
Gold Member
NewMeta said:

This video is just 5 minutes long and I urge anyone heavy in bitcoin to watch and learn what you are getting yourself into in the future.

Lightning network is just bringing the banking system to Bitcoin, it will be regulated, it will have KYC so they know who you are, and it won't be decentralised or even be Bitcoin. This is (((BTC))) how it will be soon enough. If I had to speculate over a crash, it would be because people finally realize Bitcoin Cash is in fact, the actual Bitcoin, and a so called flippening happens as a result.

At all else protect yourselves by diversifying because it is highly likely all the money you think you made could be worthless overnight.

This video is pretty convincing. If this is true, how much time do we have before we need to get out of BTC and into alternatives like BCH, XMR, etc? Isn't LN a few years away?
 

DeusLuxMeaEst

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
Could be fear-mongering and shilling for BCH. Modeled the video after others I've seen that talk about the federal reserve and fractional-reserve banking. He also used words and references that he knows will resonate with his viewership (Bilderberg, etc.) Sounds too Illuminati-esque to me.

Always a good idea to be diversified. I'll do more research.
 

yaku

Sparrow
The main guys at Bitcoin Cash are one of the sleaziest cast of characters in the crypto world.

If something causes a flippening, it won't be Bitcoin Cash.
 

Valentine

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Ah, just touched on this in the Bitcoin thread. Posts in there tend to be quickly buried so I'll repost here:

Valentine said:
I don't normally follow this thread so apologies if this is a rehash of something others have already said.

With that said, offering some info for fellow bitcoin investors:

What You Need To Know About Bitcoin Cash (BCH) vs Bitcoin Core (BTC)

One is the true bitcoin, one is not.

As we all know Bitcoin was forked to make two separate cryptocurrencies. One of the main reasons why was because of block size - BTC is still stuck at 1MB block size which is why transaction speed and cost is ridiculous. This is not the case for BCH which now has a 8MB block size.

So why would BTC stick with 1MB block size when we can see already that transactions are expensive and slow?

It's because Blockstream can make more money this way.

You see, Blockstream employ the majority of Bitcoin Core developers.

Their revenue model is selling an off-chain patented payment channel to exchanges which they charge a monthly fee for called Liquid. This is because doing payments all on the blockchain is too expensive with BTC and it's small block size.

So they are incentivised to keep the BTC network slow so exchanges have to keep paying for Liquid.

Similarly they are pushing the Lightning Network, an off-chain payment channels for consumers to use for cheap, fast transactions.

LN however is open-source, these are payment channels that the exchanges would have with consumers to give them the liquidity needed to make their transactions off-chain. This way both the exchanges and Blockstream now collect fees from the majority of transactions "on Bitcoin".

By forcing the majority of transactions on Bitcoin Core to now take place via these off-chain payment channels, you both lose all possibility of private transactions and there is a possibility of being regulated by the government.

This is no surprise seeing as one of Blockstream’s investors/owners is AXA. AXA’s CEO and Chairman until 2016 was also the Chairman of Bilderberg Group, who are run by the globalist elite.

The globalist elite do not like the fact that most of the miners are in China which is out of their control. And they're circumventing the Chinese by instead moving the majority of blockchain transactions off-chain, so that they are back in the control of their financial institutions.

TL;DR: Bitcoin Core (BTC) will soon be run almost entirely off-chain and regulated by Blockstream, exchanges, governments etc. Bitcoin Cash (BCH) is the true Bitcoin in alignment with Satoshi's vision and it's transactions will be able to continue going unmolested on the blockchain.
 
A brief list of things its been proven that nobody cares about (IE have no effect on price for more than the span of a month):

1.) Whether something is centralized or not.
2.) How much electricity it takes to do proof of work.
3.) Whether a crypto is inflationary or not.
4.) Countries banning bitcoin trading.
5.) Exchange hacks.
6.) Price manipulation.
7.) Hashrate

Things it's been proven people do care about.
1.) A major exchange shutting down due to a hack.

That seems to be about it.

Am open to things I missed.

EDIT: Missed another thing that doesn't affect price. Whether a coin is "better", due to some random technical metric (Privacy, block times, etc.) than Bitcoin.
 

Samseau

Owl
Orthodox
Gold Member
SamuelBRoberts said:
A brief list of things its been proven that nobody cares about (IE have no effect on price for more than the span of a month):

1.) Whether something is centralized or not.
2.) How much electricity it takes to do proof of work.
3.) Whether a crypto is inflationary or not.
4.) Countries banning bitcoin trading.
5.) Exchange hacks.
6.) Price manipulation.
7.) Hashrate

Things it's been proven people do care about.
1.) A major exchange shutting down due to a hack.

That seems to be about it.

Am open to things I missed.

EDIT: Missed another thing that doesn't affect price. Whether a coin is "better", due to some random technical metric (Privacy, block times, etc.) than Bitcoin.

When people are getting taxed up the ass, it will matter.
 

void

Pelican
If you want to commit tax fraud, pray that not one exchange you have used in the past knows your name and is not forced to give out transaction data to authorities. Most coins are not private and wallet movements can be reconstructed.
 

Valentine

Kingfisher
Gold Member
People care about speed and cost of transactions, which is why BTC is seeing little usage as a currency and is instead being used solely as a store of value e.g. Steam dropping BTC due to high fees.

The more companies which drop BTC and the more who adopt BCH for cheap and fast transactions the more likely it will cause a long-lasting effect on price.
 

Kdog

 
void said:
If you want to commit tax fraud, pray that not one exchange you have used in the past knows your name and is not forced to give out transaction data to authorities. Most coins are not private and wallet movements can be reconstructed.

It's not tax fraud, it's avoiding straight up theft.
 
The tax guidelines on BTC have been in place since... 2011?

Monero is now 3 years old.

Monero's done well for itself, but it hasn't come close to BTC's marketcap and it's not going to.

There's demand for TaxEvasionCoin, but there's not enough to sustain serious interest. (By serious interest here I mean 'flipping BTC'-level interest)

Most people would rather just pay their taxes than risk serious fines and jail time.
 

Samseau

Owl
Orthodox
Gold Member
SamuelBRoberts said:
The tax guidelines on BTC have been in place since... 2011?

Monero is now 3 years old.

Monero's done well for itself, but it hasn't come close to BTC's marketcap and it's not going to.

There's demand for TaxEvasionCoin, but there's not enough to sustain serious interest. (By serious interest here I mean 'flipping BTC'-level interest)

Most people would rather just pay their taxes than risk serious fines and jail time.

Monero actually provides value. All BTC has is hype. Hype runs out over time. Don't be the bag holder once the hype is gone.

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Fundamentals always win in the long run. If you want to play the odds in the hype machine known as BTC, be my guest. Just don't come crying when you can't cash out because the BTC network is clogged and it won't process your transaction.
 
OK, let's talk this through then.

When is "the long run"? What target market is going to be making large purchases of this coin? It's not the financial system, the financial system has made its choice to legitimize BTC. It's not mom and pop investors, "It's like BTC, but it lets you evade taxes!" is not a compelling sales point for that group. So who is it?

BTC's transaction fees are higher than they've ever been, times are slower than they've ever been, and the price is soaring.

"Fundamentals always win in the long run."

Where are some cases in Cryptocurrency where "Fundamentals have won in the long run?" I'm pretty knowledge about this and I can't think of any, baring egregious examples like HTMLcoin's 51% attack that lead to a network collapse. The truth is, whether any of us like it or not, that fundamentals simply do not matter in this space.
 
Having worked in Wall Street for 3 years, I spoke with a lot of friends in Wall Street. They also don't know much about the current crypto trend. I mean, there are just a lot of speculation. Some of them say, it's great investment idea and some say, it's gonna be like dot com boom. The more I've read about it and more confused, I got.
 
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