Church Infiltration of the Orthodox church

Hermetic Seal

Pelican
Orthodox
Gold Member
I visited an OCA parish last year and loved the priest. Good place. But my ROCOR parish really felt like home, so it wasn't a hard choice. There are lots of good OCA out there, they just need to be vetted in a way that ROCOR probably doesn't.
 

lutak

Pigeon
What are your guys' thoughts on the GOC? I was given a copy of the Russian Golgatha which details events leading to what is called Sergianism which may be the root of infiltration of orthodoxy. Basically they turned the Russian orthodox church into a tool of the Soviet state. When Rocor reunited with the Moscow patriarch that's what they were reuniting with. OCA and ROCOR are both in communion with the Moscow patriarch and each other.
 

Godward

Robin
In the different branches of Christianity, the process of politization happens differently. This is partially due to their internal organization (or disorganization, as is often the case with Protestantism), and partially due to the specific interests of outside forces. But it strikes me that both the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church have been targeted as a result of geo-politization. So, during the Cold War, the Catholic Church has been a target by both the KGB (via Liberation Theology etc.) and the OSS/CIA (via organizations such as Tradition, Family, Property). This has had devasting effects not only (evidently) on the beliefs of Liberal Catholics, but also on that of many Traditionalist Catholics.

In the Orthodox Church, it is especially in Orthodox nations where NATO has a strong geopolitical interest where Liberal ideological/theological infiltration is strongest. My guess is that Liberal ideology/theology assists in creating a rift between those nations and Russia, since the Russians are more Conservatively inclined. I already mentioned the Greek Orthodox Church as a tragic example, but the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (or at least the Kiev Patriarchate) is another, more recent example. I do not know whether the Georgian Orthodox Church is mostly under Russian or American influence, but I would recommend that the Orthodox faithful monitor it closely. This geopolitical reality might be (one of) the most important indicator(s) on whether a specific Orthodox church (including is branches in the United States) is going to turn Liberal.

(And not only Christianity, by the way, since also Islam has been targeted in this way: think about the pro-CIA Gülenist faction (source), the pro-UK/US Wahhabis, and the creation of Al-Qaida and the Taliban by the CIA etcetera).
 
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lutak

Pigeon
"Archimandrite Constantine Zaitsev of Jordanville on the "Soviet Church": "If the Catacomb Church appears as the ray of salvation for Russia, then, opposite to this, the Soviet Church is burning in hellish fire. It is the spawn of hell. It appears as the spiritual antipode [opposite] of the Catacomb Church. It signifies the mark of the beast which was imposed on our unfortunate Motherland. It appears as a terrible threat to the entire free world, covering it with the false light of the satanic authority. It is instilling into the world, which is distanced from the frightening Soviet reality, the lying perception that the existence of godless Communism is combined with the existence of the Church of God that has recognized it! The evil malignancy of the Soviet Church cannot be overestimated. The Soviet Church closes the path to the salvation of Russia! Russia is spiritually alive, inasmuch as it confessionally rejects the Soviet Church. If however, in Her weakness, the Russian people accepts it, seeking solace in its churches and neglecting the terrible blasphemous lie that rests at its foundation, then they should feel in themselves that, having called upon God in those temples which have defiled by the Lie, they have fallen so low in their sins and are now unworthy to pray in the true temples. They should then cry out to the Lord for mercy! Inasmuch as a person is reconciled with the Soviet Church, perceiving it as a true Church and being satisfied with the opportunity to have fellowship with Christ in her, then such a person lays upon himself the seal of Falsehood, which is embodied in it. After all, the evil essence of this church is not only the sin of recognizing the Satanic authority, as being allegedly established by God, not only the sin of shedding the blood of the New Martyrs, but also the terrible sin of replacing the Church. This is the sin of the antichrist. It is necessary to delve deeper into the understanding of the Soviet Church in order to fully comprehend Her godlessness. The Soviet Church is canonically unholy..." (I hope that we realize that if he, Fr. Seraphim Rose, Vladyka Averky, Metropolitan Philaret, Metropolitan Anthony Khrapovitsky, Professor Andreyev, St. Joseph of Petrograd, St. Cyril of Kazan, St. Andrew of Ufa, St. Seraphim of Uglich, St. Victor of Glazov, St. Valentine Sventitsky, St. Maxim of Serpukhov, St. Nektary of Yaransk, St. Paul of Starobela, etc. etc. - if these are correct, then the Orthodox world is now dealing with a "deception aimed to deceive if possible even the elect". But for those who scoff at the teachings of Saints, while dismissing them, they can chose to find "comfort" in that they are trusting the opinions of Ecumenists, KGB agents, Sergianists, turn-coats, social-gospel advocates, and those who have consistently shown themselves as incapable of unhypocritically proclaiming "truth across the board". We, as Orthodox Christians are to follow the Saints!)"

This was a post made by the Gregory decapolite page on face book in regards to the said Sovietization of Moscow partiarchate it is definitely something worth looking into more deeply.
 
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josemiguel

Sparrow
Orthodox
I know a theologian who in his sermon in a Antiochian church in US preached against homosexuality and after that the priest admonished him because he `hurt the feelings` of some homosexuals from the church choir whom he was giving the holy communion without making any concience problem to himself .As a result the, American Orthodox theologian left the Antiochian Orthodox Church for ROCOR.
If this was in Texas, I definitley know the Antiochian priest of this story, since he chrismated me. I went to the local ROCOR parish after discovering that that Antiochian parish had a boatload of masons being given communion. The Antiochian parish and priest an hour west does not have these issues and are awesome, and haven't given in to Branch Covidianism.

Moral of the story, no matter the jurisdiction, you have to discern whether the priest and parish community are wheat or tares. Christ will make it clear for His own.

Second moral, at least in the south, there is a serious push by Masons to infiltrate the Church. The ROCOR parish I'm in threw out a member who turned out to be a Mason and was unrepentant of it.
 

Liviu

Sparrow
Orthodox
If this was in Texas, I definitley know the Antiochian priest of this story, since he chrismated me. I went to the local ROCOR parish after discovering that that Antiochian parish had a boatload of masons being given communion. The Antiochian parish and priest an hour west does not have these issues and are awesome, and haven't given in to Branch Covidianism.

Moral of the story, no matter the jurisdiction, you have to discern whether the priest and parish community are wheat or tares. Christ will make it clear for His own.

Second moral, at least in the south, there is a serious push by Masons to infiltrate the Church. The ROCOR parish I'm in threw out a member who turned out to be a Mason and was unrepentant of it.
I don`t think that was in Texas but if was, you had contacted me on a language teaching platform for Romanian teaching lessons and told me the story in private. But , from what I remember, was someone from a northern zone of US. So, that makes two of you in a similar situation in different states. And will make Darius (Valizadeh) and others happy they made the best choice from the first place.
 

Liviu

Sparrow
Orthodox
If this was in Texas, I definitley know the Antiochian priest of this story, since he chrismated me. I went to the local ROCOR parish after discovering that that Antiochian parish had a boatload of masons being given communion. The Antiochian parish and priest an hour west does not have these issues and are awesome, and haven't given in to Branch Covidianism.

Moral of the story, no matter the jurisdiction, you have to discern whether the priest and parish community are wheat or tares. Christ will make it clear for His own.

Second moral, at least in the south, there is a serious push by Masons to infiltrate the Church. The ROCOR parish I'm in threw out a member who turned out to be a Mason and was unrepentant of it.

Sorry, I supposed you are the theologian. Is a misunderstanding from my side.
 

Liviu

Sparrow
Orthodox
"Archimandrite Constantine Zaitsev of Jordanville on the "Soviet Church": "If the Catacomb Church appears as the ray of salvation for Russia, then, opposite to this, the Soviet Church is burning in hellish fire. It is the spawn of hell. It appears as the spiritual antipode [opposite] of the Catacomb Church. It signifies the mark of the beast which was imposed on our unfortunate Motherland. It appears as a terrible threat to the entire free world, covering it with the false light of the satanic authority. It is instilling into the world, which is distanced from the frightening Soviet reality, the lying perception that the existence of godless Communism is combined with the existence of the Church of God that has recognized it! The evil malignancy of the Soviet Church cannot be overestimated. The Soviet Church closes the path to the salvation of Russia! Russia is spiritually alive, inasmuch as it confessionally rejects the Soviet Church. If however, in Her weakness, the Russian people accepts it, seeking solace in its churches and neglecting the terrible blasphemous lie that rests at its foundation, then they should feel in themselves that, having called upon God in those temples which have defiled by the Lie, they have fallen so low in their sins and are now unworthy to pray in the true temples. They should then cry out to the Lord for mercy! Inasmuch as a person is reconciled with the Soviet Church, perceiving it as a true Church and being satisfied with the opportunity to have fellowship with Christ in her, then such a person lays upon himself the seal of Falsehood, which is embodied in it. After all, the evil essence of this church is not only the sin of recognizing the Satanic authority, as being allegedly established by God, not only the sin of shedding the blood of the New Martyrs, but also the terrible sin of replacing the Church. This is the sin of the antichrist. It is necessary to delve deeper into the understanding of the Soviet Church in order to fully comprehend Her godlessness. The Soviet Church is canonically unholy..." (I hope that we realize that if he, Fr. Seraphim Rose, Vladyka Averky, Metropolitan Philaret, Metropolitan Anthony Khrapovitsky, Professor Andreyev, St. Joseph of Petrograd, St. Cyril of Kazan, St. Andrew of Ufa, St. Seraphim of Uglich, St. Victor of Glazov, St. Valentine Sventitsky, St. Maxim of Serpukhov, St. Nektary of Yaransk, St. Paul of Starobela, etc. etc. - if these are correct, then the Orthodox world is now dealing with a "deception aimed to deceive if possible even the elect". But for those who scoff at the teachings of Saints, while dismissing them, they can chose to find "comfort" in that they are trusting the opinions of Ecumenists, KGB agents, Sergianists, turn-coats, social-gospel advocates, and those who have consistently shown themselves as incapable of unhypocritically proclaiming "truth across the board". We, as Orthodox Christians are to follow the Saints!)"

This was a post made by the Gregory decapolite page on face book in regards to the said Sovietization of Moscow partiarchate it is definitely something worth looking into more deeply.
Wait a minute. In the time of soviets, in Russia, the church had to survive. We can`t demonize all church because of the situation. For example, probably the greatest saint of Russia in XXth century, Seraphim of Viritsa, at the beginning of instauration of communism in Russia expressed to his confessor his request to leave Russia but wasn`t granted because the confessor said Russia will need him. And he was an apostle of Russia , especially during WW2.By his prayers and of other a few holy people, Russia won the war.
 

Liviu

Sparrow
Orthodox
"Archimandrite Constantine Zaitsev of Jordanville on the "Soviet Church": "If the Catacomb Church appears as the ray of salvation for Russia, then, opposite to this, the Soviet Church is burning in hellish fire. It is the spawn of hell. It appears as the spiritual antipode [opposite] of the Catacomb Church. It signifies the mark of the beast which was imposed on our unfortunate Motherland. It appears as a terrible threat to the entire free world, covering it with the false light of the satanic authority. It is instilling into the world, which is distanced from the frightening Soviet reality, the lying perception that the existence of godless Communism is combined with the existence of the Church of God that has recognized it! The evil malignancy of the Soviet Church cannot be overestimated. The Soviet Church closes the path to the salvation of Russia! Russia is spiritually alive, inasmuch as it confessionally rejects the Soviet Church. If however, in Her weakness, the Russian people accepts it, seeking solace in its churches and neglecting the terrible blasphemous lie that rests at its foundation, then they should feel in themselves that, having called upon God in those temples which have defiled by the Lie, they have fallen so low in their sins and are now unworthy to pray in the true temples. They should then cry out to the Lord for mercy! Inasmuch as a person is reconciled with the Soviet Church, perceiving it as a true Church and being satisfied with the opportunity to have fellowship with Christ in her, then such a person lays upon himself the seal of Falsehood, which is embodied in it. After all, the evil essence of this church is not only the sin of recognizing the Satanic authority, as being allegedly established by God, not only the sin of shedding the blood of the New Martyrs, but also the terrible sin of replacing the Church. This is the sin of the antichrist. It is necessary to delve deeper into the understanding of the Soviet Church in order to fully comprehend Her godlessness. The Soviet Church is canonically unholy..." (I hope that we realize that if he, Fr. Seraphim Rose, Vladyka Averky, Metropolitan Philaret, Metropolitan Anthony Khrapovitsky, Professor Andreyev, St. Joseph of Petrograd, St. Cyril of Kazan, St. Andrew of Ufa, St. Seraphim of Uglich, St. Victor of Glazov, St. Valentine Sventitsky, St. Maxim of Serpukhov, St. Nektary of Yaransk, St. Paul of Starobela, etc. etc. - if these are correct, then the Orthodox world is now dealing with a "deception aimed to deceive if possible even the elect". But for those who scoff at the teachings of Saints, while dismissing them, they can chose to find "comfort" in that they are trusting the opinions of Ecumenists, KGB agents, Sergianists, turn-coats, social-gospel advocates, and those who have consistently shown themselves as incapable of unhypocritically proclaiming "truth across the board". We, as Orthodox Christians are to follow the Saints!)"

This was a post made by the Gregory decapolite page on face book in regards to the said Sovietization of Moscow partiarchate it is definitely something worth looking into more deeply.
Of course were some servants of the church who weren`t truly believers. It`s interesting that in a case, an infiltrated agent who became bishop, at some point realized that the truth is within the Church and, at an assembly, confessed to the people who is but he doesn`t want to be anymore and if the people accept his real conversion. The people accepted. It`s much easier to flee in a safer place than to endure the storm at home. To remember that father Seraphim Rose said that what started in Russia will end in America. What will do then the Christians of ROCOR ? Will flee? Where ? At some point some of us will be put in the position to give testimony of the faith and maybe to become martyrs or maybe to risc our very souls. Probably, Saint Seraphim of Viritsa and other saints of Russia from communist time are greater in front of God than most or even all the saints you listed. Because they confronted the beast face to face
 
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