Invisible money & the "buffer"

[mastauser]

Has the average person invented penicilin, the polo vaccine, sent man to the moon, invented the car, computer or airplanes?

The average man has always mostly been interested in pussy, beer and sports and nothing wrong with that, but don't come complaining that Steve Jobs had a lot more money than you.

 

[kdolo]

Has the average person invented penicilin, the polo vaccine, sent man to the moon, invented the car, computer or airplanes?

Well yes. Average people do things that have a chance to be excellent things everyday.

What often gets them to the next level is the availability of capital from sponsors, investors, investment banks, partners, banks, private equity, hedge funds, wealthier friends, family,,,,,,

It is the ability of some to accumulate excess capital which provides all the progress for the others.....

without some having excess money to invest those guys who invented those things you mention would have been considered impractical dreamers.....

It wasn't just Jobs that made Apple - it was the early investors (Wall street, banks, private equity,wealthy families etc.) that allowed it to come to market.

 

[la_mode]

^^^^^

That's what books tell you. On some level that is correct - I'm sure a lot of it is reinvested, but again, it's not really helping out the average person. It's money traded among the ultra-rich in some theoretical "return on investment" sense. It's basically a game only they can play.

If American society raised the minimum wage to something livable (instead of buffering money), we wouldn't have this society of derelicts.

WRONG again.

That's exactly what the money is doing - helping the average person.

-student loans
-car loans
-business loans
-mortgages for homes
-money market - for small business
-margin for brokerage accounts


A minimum wage is one of the WORST ideas out there.

What you appear to be proposing is Communism. It doesn't work.

Again, that's just theory.

What books tell you.

If employees were paid better the necessity for loans wouldn't be as strong.

Of course, they just wanna charge you interest.

Win-win for them.

 

[mastauser]

la_mode,

Why don't you start a biz and start paying workers what you think is a fair wage, then come back to us and tell us your experience.

Waiting for excuse for why you can't open a biz and do it your way.

 

[kdolo]

^^^^^

That's what books tell you. On some level that is correct - I'm sure a lot of it is reinvested, but again, it's not really helping out the average person. It's money traded among the ultra-rich in some theoretical "return on investment" sense. It's basically a game only they can play.

If American society raised the minimum wage to something livable (instead of buffering money), we wouldn't have this society of derelicts.

WRONG again.

That's exactly what the money is doing - helping the average person.

-student loans
-car loans
-business loans
-mortgages for homes
-money market - for small business
-margin for brokerage accounts


A minimum wage is one of the WORST ideas out there.

What you appear to be proposing is Communism. It doesn't work.

Again, that's just theory.

What books tell you.

If employees were paid better the necessity for loans wouldn't be as strong.

Of course, they just wanna charge you interest.

Win-win for them.

WRONG.

If employees were paid better there would be more demand for loans - to buy bigger homes, bigger cars, etc.

And the Companies don't "just wanna charge you interest".

They could also keep the money in accounts that don't bear interest and not lend it out.

But, people come along asking for loans - the price for the use of someone else's money is INTEREST.

 

[FourToTheFloor]

I used to work in pretty sleazy sales, and I've thought a lot about the idea of profit.

In order to turn a profit, one must sell goods or services for more than their true cost. Working hard just to break even is still a loss of time and energy.

At the end of the day, profits are generated by cutting costs (i.e. underpaying workers, outsourcing, using cheap materials) OR by convincing consumers to overpay for what they're getting.

Those are the two ways you can get out more than you put in.

 

[la_mode]

la_mode,

Why don't you start a biz and start paying workers what you think is a fair wage, then come back to us and tell us your experience.

Waiting for excuse for why you can't open a biz and do it your way.

If I had the ability to do so, I would at least make sure my lowest-paid employees were paid more than those on welfare.

The point I'm making is that in the US someone on welfare gets more money than someone who actually wants to work and better themselves, but is only eligible for low-paying jobs.

Essentially, a society of derelicts who are happy with a free piece of candy and an EBT card is better.

The ultra-rich want unemployment to be as high as possible, less people employed is less of a threat to them. Even with high unemployment, the rich continue to get richer via trading their "invisible money" which they can't even go through. They complain about people on welfare - yet don't want minimum wage to be above welfare.

You guys can believe what Econ 101 books tell you all day long.

 

[Roosh]

http://www.returnofkings.com/991/do-mcdonalds-workers-deserve-high-pay

Do McDonalds Workers Deserve High Pay?

 

[la_mode]

^^^^^

That's what books tell you. On some level that is correct - I'm sure a lot of it is reinvested, but again, it's not really helping out the average person. It's money traded among the ultra-rich in some theoretical "return on investment" sense. It's basically a game only they can play.

If American society raised the minimum wage to something livable (instead of buffering money), we wouldn't have this society of derelicts.

WRONG again.

That's exactly what the money is doing - helping the average person.

-student loans
-car loans
-business loans
-mortgages for homes
-money market - for small business
-margin for brokerage accounts


A minimum wage is one of the WORST ideas out there.

What you appear to be proposing is Communism. It doesn't work.

Again, that's just theory.

What books tell you.

If employees were paid better the necessity for loans wouldn't be as strong.

Of course, they just wanna charge you interest.

Win-win for them.

WRONG.

If employees were paid better there would be more demand for loans - to buy bigger homes, bigger cars, etc.

And the Companies don't "just wanna charge you interest".

They could also keep the money in accounts that don't bear interest and not lend it out.

But, people come along asking for loans - the price for the use of someone else's money is INTEREST.

The poor are not really Keeping Up with the Joneses - it's simply not an option.

You're arguing we should keep the wages low because if people are paid a fair wage, then they'll wanna buy everything they can.

 

[kdolo]

The poor are not really Keeping Up with the Joneses - it's simply not an option.

You're arguing we should keep the wages low because if people are paid a fair wage, then they'll wanna buy everything they can.
[/quote]

NO.

I am arguing that a "fair" wage is a wage that is set by the market - by worker and employer and not "society" or government.

Salary is the price of labor. And, prices are set by the intersection of supply and demand.

any attempt to change this market dynamic simply creates greater problems - especially for labor.

 

[mastauser]

la_mode,

Why don't you start a biz and start paying workers what you think is a fair wage, then come back to us and tell us your experience.

Waiting for excuse for why you can't open a biz and do it your way.

If I had the ability to do so

What's holding you back from opening a business?

It's interesting than 99% of people who share your opinion never seem to open their own business and run them the way they seem to think it should be run.

It's always easy to critize others when you're not willing to do the work yourself.

 

[kdolo]

[/quote]

If I had the ability to do so, I would at least make sure my lowest-paid employees were paid more than those on welfare.

The point I'm making is that in the US someone on welfare gets more money than someone who actually wants to work and better themselves, but is only eligible for low-paying jobs.

Essentially, a society of derelicts who are happy with a free piece of candy and an EBT card is better.

The ultra-rich want unemployment to be as high as possible, less people employed is less of a threat to them. Even with high unemployment, the rich continue to get richer via trading their "invisible money" which they can't even go through. They complain about people on welfare - yet don't want minimum wage to be above welfare.

You guys can believe what Econ 101 books tell you all day long.
[/quote]

How about limiting welfare to a finite lifetime time period of use. After all its supposed to be a safety net not a lifestyle.

The ultra rich do not want unemployment to be as high as possible. Excessively high unemployment brings social unrest which hurts business and profits, makes being rich unsafe, and invites revolution, coups, and collectivist ideologies.

The ultra rich typically want stability.

 

[kdolo]

The poor are not really Keeping Up with the Joneses - it's simply not an option.
[/quote]

Oh really ??

Most of the so called poor I know all have the newest cell phones, the newest air Jordan s, playstations, cable TV, flat screens, and eat out - fast food regularly.

 

[la_mode]

la_mode,

Why don't you start a biz and start paying workers what you think is a fair wage, then come back to us and tell us your experience.

Waiting for excuse for why you can't open a biz and do it your way.

If I had the ability to do so

What's holding you back from opening a business?

It's interesting than 99% of people who share your opinion never seem to open their own business and run them the way they seem to think it should be run.

It's always easy to critize others when you're not willing to do the work yourself.

It's really not something you can just do on a whim. I'm also referring to billlion dollar corporations which underpay their workers. Not a small business.

I simply don't have the capital to do so. I'm a middle class guy. Nothing wrong with being middle-class.

I just don't see how it's good for America when welfare generally pays out more than low-paying jobs.

 

[BlurredSevens]

You guys can believe what Econ 101 books tell you all day long.

So then what are your sources? If you aren't getting your information from the study of economics, nor are you an experienced business owner, how are you able to comment with so much authority on business practices and economic theory?

 

[kdolo]

"It's really not something you can just do on a whim. I'm also referring to billlion dollar corporations which underpay their workers. Not a small business."


ALL billion dollar corporations started out as small businesses....

 

[kdolo]

"I just don't see how it's good for America when welfare generally pays out more than low-paying jobs"

Agreed. The solution then is to eliminate or restrict welfare.

 

[mastauser]

la_mode,

Why don't you start a biz and start paying workers what you think is a fair wage, then come back to us and tell us your experience.

Waiting for excuse for why you can't open a biz and do it your way.

If I had the ability to do so

What's holding you back from opening a business?

It's interesting than 99% of people who share your opinion never seem to open their own business and run them the way they seem to think it should be run.

It's always easy to critize others when you're not willing to do the work yourself.

It's really not something you can just do on a whim. I'm also referring to billlion dollar corporations which underpay their workers. Not a small business.

I simply don't have the capital to do so. I'm a middle class guy. Nothing wrong with being middle-class.

I just don't see how it's good for America when welfare generally pays out more than low-paying jobs.

As already mentioned, all huge corporations began as small businesses. You have to admit that your argument - or the many like it - would have a lot more merit if there were just a few of you who had ever run a small business. But there isn't and that is the big red flag, because millions of people have your beliefs, yet where are the ones who were willing to start their own business and run them in a 'fair' way like you suggest? None? That tells me that those making the claims have no idea what it means to run a business.

Actually, I agree that McDonalds probably could pay more easily. I don't like big corporations like McDonalds particularly, they're usually run by number crunching bureaucrats who themselves don't have an ounce of entrepreneurship. However, part of it is because leftists have such an aversion against 'that rich capitalist'. Public companies with shares on a public exchange have a legal obligation to maximize profits for shareholders. Your pension fund buys into it. Your union invest in it. If leftists didn't have such a problem with rich people and allowed better tax rates for personal ownership including less personal liability, perhaps more of these companies would stay on private hands, which would mean the share price maximizing motive wouldn't overrule everything else. The stock market doesn't care though, but leftists prefer the stock market to the rich guy capitalist owner.

In the end, what it comes down to is the insane idea that you should be able to live and perhaps raise a family with a McJob. The huge disaster is that there are so many people with zero skills at all and no desire to change that. How do you make it 10 years into adult life without having learned any skills? That can only be pure laziness and entitlement. Everyone can learn a trade. The reason of course is welfare. No urgency means the least qualified won't go out and learn some skills. Welfare as it is now keeps people underqualified and stupid.