IOTA Thread (First Non-Blockchain Coin)

Sebastian

Pelican
I think difference is about 50 cents right now. I don't how this is possible.

anyways, Is there a way you buy those on Binance and sell it in other market?


yaku said:
Up to $3.40 now.

Nearly $6 at Coinone, the Korean exchange.

Apparently lots of demand in Korea.
 

semibaron

Kingfisher
Sebastian said:
I think difference is about 50 cents right now. I don't how this is possible.

anyways, Is there a way you buy those on Binance and sell it in other market?


yaku said:
Up to $3.40 now.

Nearly $6 at Coinone, the Korean exchange.

Apparently lots of demand in Korea.

You can only trade on Coinone with a Korean passport and a Korean phone number. Hence access to the exchange is limited and therefore prices differ.
 

yaku

Sparrow
Deutsche Bank put out a prospectus on crypto for its clients.

https://www.db.com/newsroom_news/ci...ies_and_blockchains_-_EMEA_-_client_ready.pdf

IOTA
• The IOTA foundation, located in Berlin has revolutionised IoT*. IOTA represents a third generation of Blockchain after the development of
Bitcoin and Ethereum were developed. It actually isn’t a simple blockchain anymore, but rather a completely new concept.
• The scale problem is solved through a new developed structure. Instead of a chain the blocks are processed in parallel strands. A
transaction is processed after being confirmed by several participants (not miners like Bitcoin). There are basically three steps during a
transaction:
1. I have to confirm a minimum of two transactions (the software does this automatically, unlike miners for Bitcoin).
2. These two transactions must be verified and checked (also done by the software).
3. The authentication is processed through a nonce (number used once)*. This guarantees spam protection.
• In conclusion: IOTA has solved the fundamental problems of blockchain, because it is scalable and does not cause any costs. The
problem is, that this payment system only works if cryptocurrencies are compatible with each other, because IOTA does not have blocks
and chains.
 

Sebastian

Pelican
So buy those from one of U.S markets, put it in the wallet and send it to someone in korea and they sell it for you? is that possible?



semibaron said:
Sebastian said:
I think difference is about 50 cents right now. I don't how this is possible.

anyways, Is there a way you buy those on Binance and sell it in other market?


yaku said:
Up to $3.40 now.

Nearly $6 at Coinone, the Korean exchange.

Apparently lots of demand in Korea.

You can only trade on Coinone with a Korean passport and a Korean phone number. Hence access to the exchange is limited and therefore prices differ.
 
yaku said:
Deutsche Bank put out a prospectus on crypto for its clients.

https://www.db.com/newsroom_news/ci...ies_and_blockchains_-_EMEA_-_client_ready.pdf

IOTA
• The IOTA foundation, located in Berlin has revolutionised IoT*. IOTA represents a third generation of Blockchain after the development of
Bitcoin and Ethereum were developed. It actually isn’t a simple blockchain anymore, but rather a completely new concept.
• The scale problem is solved through a new developed structure. Instead of a chain the blocks are processed in parallel strands. A
transaction is processed after being confirmed by several participants (not miners like Bitcoin). There are basically three steps during a
transaction:
1. I have to confirm a minimum of two transactions (the software does this automatically, unlike miners for Bitcoin).
2. These two transactions must be verified and checked (also done by the software).
3. The authentication is processed through a nonce (number used once)*. This guarantees spam protection.
• In conclusion: IOTA has solved the fundamental problems of blockchain, because it is scalable and does not cause any costs. The
problem is, that this payment system only works if cryptocurrencies are compatible with each other, because IOTA does not have blocks
and chains.

Uhm...what?

IOTA has solved the fundamental problems of blockchain, because it is scalable and does not cause any costs

Unless IOTA can demonstrate it's processing thousands of transactions per second, it hasn't proven that it has solved the scalability problem.

The problem is, that this payment system only works if cryptocurrencies are compatible with each other, because IOTA does not have blocks and chains.

I don't think the person who wrote this actually understands what a blockchain is ("does not have blocks and chains" - IOTA obviously has "chains" since transactions are linked).

I'm also not sure what he means with cryptocurrencies having to be compatible. Compatible how? Trade-able, that's already possible. IOTA has its own currency, so why do other cryptocurrencies have to be compatible?
 
yaku said:
He's talking about a bug that was fixed in August. His Microsoft claim is laughable. And the management team has no problems firing back at its critics, as an earlier exchange with Vitalik showed. Maybe be a bit unprofessional, but I don't see any problem with that.

Fair point on the Microsoft claim, I don't see any evidence that the IOTA Foundation is lying about it.

The fact that he's mentioning a bug from August doesn't invalidate that it was a pretty significant bug and IOTA messed up badly by rolling their own crypto.

A functioning IOTA is a threat to the blockchain community. In the future, the PR battle between blockchain and tangle will make the Bitcoin/Bitcoin Cash battle seem like a quaint little argument between friends.

I highly doubt this - a lot of IOT sensors are small and optimized for minimum power consumption. Having them all do a bit of PoW every time it interacts within an IOT system is foolish. Although the price is up right now, I fully expect IOTA to crash and burn.
 

yaku

Sparrow
Sure, it was a significant but but not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Just like the BTC bug that created 92 billion bitcoin out of thin air. Except the IOTA screwup didn't force a reversal of transactions. Or the time when Bitcoin Core released incompatible versions of software. That certainly was a clusterfuck, and happened as recently as 2013. Shit happens when you developing new stuff.

The fact shit happens doesn't mean you shouldn't innovate.

And sure, a lot of IOT sensors are small and can't handle PoW. If they can't/won't do the PoW, then they don't need to be part of the IOTA system.

Problem solved.
 
yaku said:
Sure, it was a significant but but not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Just like the BTC bug that created 92 billion bitcoin out of thin air. Except the IOTA screwup didn't force a reversal of transactions. Or the time when Bitcoin Core released incompatible versions of software. That certainly was a clusterfuck, and happened as recently as 2013. Shit happens when you developing new stuff.

It's one thing when unexpected shit happens. It's quite the red flag when you ignore standard practice of not writing your own cryptographic algorithm.

That's cryptography 101.

The fact shit happens doesn't mean you shouldn't innovate.

I'm going to leave this argument aside as it actually relates to how you perceive technology and the cost/benefit analysis. This is more philosophical in nature.

And sure, a lot of IOT sensors are small and can't handle PoW. If they can't/won't do the PoW, then they don't need to be part of the IOTA system.

Problem solved.

Then why would anyone use the IOTA system. People are trying to develop IOT ecosystems, for example in the future you might see a house where all electrical appliances have sensors in them optimize electricity consumption - this will especially be a valuable control parameter to have (i.e. demand control) if we evolve from the centralized electric grid system we currently have to a microgrid-based one.

Considering it's more effective to have a unified ecosystem in terms of standards (a common engineering practice and why the International Standards Organization, ISO exists, same with IEEE standards and a bunch of others), if smaller devices are eliminated from working on the IOTA system, companies will be more inclined to move to a system where all their devices can work.

I'm going to have to look at some IOT roadmaps (technologies that are relatively mature always have roadmaps). But I'd be highly surprised if the roadmaps didn't include a 10 or 20yr plan to make all IOT sensors be below a certain power consumption point.

I don't think you fully appreciate just how desirable it is for IOT devices to be minimize power consumption as much as possible. The entire idea behind IOT is to have a sensor in everything and control everything. The less power consumption, the better. Again, I'll have to look at roadmaps and do the math on how much energy a PoW transaction require, but I wouldn't be surprised if the percentage of devices ineligible for the IOTA system hits 90%, if not more.

I
 
In case anyone would like an example of what IOT (Internet-of-Things) will do, IBM has a neat video:

QSIPNhOiMoE

Imagine a car with dozens, maybe even hundreds of small sensors - measuring all sorts of variables.

And that's perhaps the most realistic expectation we can have - cars, houses, streets, whatever with hundreds of sensors of differing sizes and requirements.

And all those sensors aren't going to work on mutiple platforms - manufacturers will pick one platform to use all their sensors with. If IOTA ends up limiting the minimum size of sensors, yeah it's a sunk project.

Though you just may be able to get away with in for example a car, assuming you have one central processing component that does the PoW work for IOTA. Frankly though, from a design and cost point of view it might be easier and cheaper to outsource the transaction/PoW work to a dedicated central facility run by the manufacturer or even easier, outsource to dedicated PoW equipment, i.e. miners (or stakers in PoS) and just pay the fee to finalize transactions.
 

yaku

Sparrow
Good points Genghis. Still lots of work to be done with IOTA, it's certainly in its infancy.

One final thing about writing your own crypto algorithm. The guy behind the algorithm is very concerned that other coins out there are vulnerable to future AI and quantum computing. That's why he felt forced to write a new crypto algorithm.

Papers like https://131002.net/data/papers/AK09.pdf, showing that "peer-reviewed, proven resilient algorithms" have non-uniform structure, make me worry that an AI will find a way to break algorithms considered secure today. Look around, countries join the AI race (https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/21/china-ai-world-leader-by-2030.html, https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/4/16251226/russia-ai-putin-rule-the-world) like it's Nuclear Arms race 2.0. To me it's clear signs that power of Artificial Intelligence shouldn't be understated.
 

rottenapple

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Genghis Khan said:
In case anyone would like an example of what IOT (Internet-of-Things) will do, IBM has a neat video:

QSIPNhOiMoE

Imagine a car with dozens, maybe even hundreds of small sensors - measuring all sorts of variables.

And that's perhaps the most realistic expectation we can have - cars, houses, streets, whatever with hundreds of sensors of differing sizes and requirements.

And all those sensors aren't going to work on mutiple platforms - manufacturers will pick one platform to use all their sensors with. If IOTA ends up limiting the minimum size of sensors, yeah it's a sunk project.

Though you just may be able to get away with in for example a car, assuming you have one central processing component that does the PoW work for IOTA. Frankly though, from a design and cost point of view it might be easier and cheaper to outsource the transaction/PoW work to a dedicated central facility run by the manufacturer or even easier, outsource to dedicated PoW equipment, i.e. miners (or stakers in PoS) and just pay the fee to finalize transactions.

Maybe there should be a separate thread with regards to IOT in general or/and one on investing with regards to IOT. I certainly think that this will be a big game changer overall, so probably many sectors are gonna profit and we as a community would do good to try to foresee where those gains will be made and how we could personally profit. IOTA is one option (that might work or not), but there are probably a lot more. I lack the technical knowledge to really go in depth on the subject, but perhaps other members know more or are even involved professionally with this transition.
 

semibaron

Kingfisher
Obviously small IoT devices don't have the capacity to do the necessary PoW. There are 2 solution approaches under way:

1. Swarm notes, enabled by the distributed computing CPU Jinn (see page 4 of this thread), will share the burden of a single full node. So imagine 10 small IoT sensor combined form one full node.

2. The IOTA protocol allows the split of tasks. Hence the PoW associated to a transaction can be done by a different device than the transaction issuer device. This also applies for the storage of data or other related tasks. So imagine, a car sensor collects data and wants to publish these into the Tangle. The sensor would contact another more powerful device to do the PoW. Then, when PoW has been done, the sensor starts uploading the data.
 

lookslikeit

Woodpecker
The tangle is a theoretical concept with no current implementation of the concept itself let alone the development. IOTA can't function without a centralized coordinator for the time being. All of the supply has been created in an ICO two years ago and it was very small (around $2m) so it ended in a very few hands. The Microsoft/Deutsch Bank propaganda should rise your scam alarms and not the other way around.

Be careful out there.
 

semibaron

Kingfisher
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This project seems to be the most interesting for an overview of the next 2/5 years because of the background of the technology. Surprisingly still there aren't decent available wallets and even few exchanges at the moment have IOTA available, but this is a plus in my opinion because there are margins of growth.
 
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