Ireland and Irish Politics / The Irish Situation

Syberpunk

Pelican
Gold Member
260px-Ireland_%28MODIS%29.jpg


There it is: Home.

It's good a time as any to start this thread with Brexit/talks of porous borders with Northern Ireland/UK and a possible Sweden 2.0 (population size almost the same) but with a few peculiar contradictions as well in terms of our demographics, which don't make it a forgone conclusion.

I've seen a few Irish posters here who expressed interest in such a thread being begun, so I've gone and done just that.

Peculiarities:

A country which couldn't be more progressive in parts but only 2nd to Japan as an island nation when it comes to the ability to take the piss out of foreigners when you exit the cities.

A country that will gladly accept Somalians as Irish to a chorus of "how dare you say they're not Irish" and, but laugh in private and roll their eyes at actual Irish Americans with genetic roots who go on vacation here looking for their heritage and saying "they're not really Irish, they've their own country".

I'm going to break it down as best as I can (as long as I can bear it for)

Religion/People

This is going to tie into and become interwined with politics because its unavoidable, Christianity is dead. Flat dead. It was dead in the late 90's and was incinerated in the 2000's. Even the small rural local area grew up, only a few families I knew went to Church en masse. Beyond the teenage years, there was a missing age group and then oldies. That was it. Of course Christmas masses were filled, so we are the defintion of cultural catholics. It only at these times does it feel a community, this hasn't changed year in year out since the 90's and I think why couldn't they do this all the time? Rather than this begruding half arsed way of doing it? Well here's why:

Persistent exposure of child sex abuse scandals were everywhere from around the early 80's to 2010 basically nuked the entire structure from orbit. Christian Brothers schools were particular hives for it. My own uncles school had 4 priests/teachers that he was taught by molesting kids when he was there, always joked he wasn't as handsome as some of the others lol, but seriously it was horrendous.

And another funny story, my grandfather went to Israel/Holy Land in the 80's with an Irish priest and tour group who he spent some nights out walking the hills and town, decent friendly fella, 10 years later on TV one evening, bang same priest convicted of pedophilia.

People still rag on the Church as a collective whipping boy/scapegoat for everything that was awful about old Ireland and there was lot, BUT it's also the sole reason why many policies get the go ahead. If it's awful for the Roman Catholicism, people are in favour of it to spite them and often purely for that alone, their thinking isn't any deeper than that. Gay marriage referendum, abortion you name its on. George Soros has his fingers stuck in all the pies over here, there is a massive activism base around Dublin and nearby Maynooth colleges (Galway especially), lots of charity swindling going on. Government is in bed with them.

The state is very socialised, we have little to no dependence and initative on ourselves, the idea of libertarianism and responsibility as in the USA is seen as cruel, not much different than many Western nations, but those unfamiliar with Ireland might think we're unruly pioneers or rebels, it's very far from the ordinary mindset. I speculate its also linked back to the Church's history, those egalitarians remnants remain. This is in a way ,why the EU is so beloved here. We wanted a daddy/god figure so bad to look over us, watching out for us so could never really fuck up and fail as a country on our own terms (EU has pumped massive amounts of money in to modernising the country infastructure the last 3 decades and we will be forever in moral debt to them and licking their shoes it seems) we never want to become independent for ourselves by ourselves. There is no appetite for it as far I can see. We were bribed and in short: we're their willing bitch.

Despite a socialized state, the money is not spent equally with many parts of rural Ireland (particularly in the North West), this may infact may be a blessing. Even until in the 90's under the watchful all seeing eye of the EU, health and safety (not dissing it) was sketchy as hell in the schools and made students and childhood a little more characterful and the people themselves charismatic and carefree and frankly HONEST in a way I can't quantify. I have stories that made city dwellers howl with their surrealism and rough and tumble comedy. And speaking of honesty:

Tall poppy syndrome and cutting down others and achievement is not only seen as common but necessary/rite of passage, but I think a great deal of it is autopilot. People will regularly swear like sailors at their nearest and dearest and even coworkers in way that make most nations would blush. SJW hasn't hit that yet. I'm guessing the more multicultural we get, the common jokes and the assumed level of comfort will decrease and so will will the comedy with it.

Getting back to, there denial of all spirituality (but therapy has taken off wouldn't you know) has become a strong cowardice to examine ourselves and each other in anyway. This denial of facts and reason is no different from the oppression of the Catholic Church in the 20th century and Islam will flatten our secular identity and Catholicism permanently. You'll think they'll let us keep it? No. I speculate we may suddenly get very attached to it in contrast to the other option.

And what did the priests do, become effette/hip to counter it. They decided went to go the other extreme, nice guys involved with local community theatre and that sort of thing....but just uninspiring. You couldn't hang a coat on them nevermind your soul.

If you haven't watched we had a TV series called the Savage Eye, it was satirical and spell painful truth about the country and social commentary. It's risque for an Irish audience (Irish scripted comedy is diabolically bad, so its not much of an achievement). Not even sure if Dave McSavage hates us or loves us and/or our past, but he's a big leftie in Dublin.

2:51 for start of difference in how priests changed:

Politics Teaser

I'll do much more politics later in a post coming very soon, or if someone else would like to do it, they're more than welcome.
I hope I've kept your attention and that my muddled thoughts have reached some level of coherence for you.

For now I'll leave you with some videos as a taste/teaser of where the country is at:

The Don:


Computing Forever:



Bonus: Is this Leonard D from the forum?

 

Steve McQueen

 
Banned
I could add a few more...

Politics is essentially a closed shop.
Media is bought and paid for, Irish are quite compliant to what they say in my experience sadly.
Crushing personal tax rates.
Out of control welfare state.
Public service salaries and pensions are the highest in the world per capita.
Nepotism is rife, you dont rise very high unless you have the right connections usually.
 

godzilla

Pelican
Only thing I know about politics in Ireland is that American companies love the corporate tax rate over there.

Separately, will the Irish language ever make a comeback?
 

Syberpunk

Pelican
Gold Member
godzilla said:
Only thing I know about politics in Ireland is that American companies love the corporate tax rate over there.

Separately, will the Irish language ever make a comeback?

There are more Polish speakers in Ireland than everyday Irish speakers. It will never make a comeback unless the teaching of it changes in primary and secondary schools. Or people start to care about their heritage in general, and there is evidence of this, in that the traditions of music are still very much to the fore and have survived unscathed even among the young. It's bizarre how we can't quite make the language a movement as well.

To my shame I can converse better in French than Irish and that's not an uncommon occurence and I spent 14 years in Irish classes, yet most people can barely string a sentence together in Irish because of the rote learning nature of it. It's a fairly clunky abstract language to learn, more in common with Latin than modern Euro languages. Describes feelings well but not hard business if you get my drift. Sounds good though.

Let's just say it's not the number 1 useful business language to become a high roller, has only about 80,000 daily speakers (In the rural west of Ireland in particular protected encouraged areas) and a PBS style channel that promotes the language, music, customs. But that's it.

If you go to a Gaelscoil (Irish primary and secondary education done through Irish), you basically become a fluent superstar compared to the public school plebs.

The corporation tax of 12.5% has every multinational settling their Euro HQ's here. It's a huge chunk of Irish employment that's wrapped up in them. We'd be seriously damaged if they left.

Attitude of them "Let them provide employment, it'll be grand" prevails throughout.
 

deerhunter

Sparrow
Gold Member
I think the Irish language will mostly disappear. I was back in Ireland a few years ago and stayed out west like I usually do. Family house in the gaeltacht (Irish speaking area). I have spent large chunks of my life there since I was born and it is home in a way. In the pub English was being spoken by most of the patrons. The owner and the regulars were speaking Irish but most of the punters were speaking English. A lot of Galway commuters moved out there during the housing boom and the subsequent road improvement.
This really shocked me as it is well out west and 15 years ago you would not have heard English spoken for days even though everyone is fluent in English. Irish is disappearing over time as far as a common language goes. Learning it in school never compares to being brought up speaking it at home. The same is happening here in Alaska with native languages, they can have all the classes they want but the languages are fading away.
 

Handsome Creepy Eel

Owl
Catholic
Gold Member
Funnily enough, Ireland is one of the most popular emigration destinations for us Croatians (because we're even more fucked up, especially conomically). The few dissenters who go there and complain about the same things as this post are quickly silenced.
 

Irish

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Handsome Creepy Eel said:
Funnily enough, Ireland is one of the most popular emigration destinations for us Croatians (because we're even more fucked up, especially conomically). The few dissenters who go there and complain about the same things as this post are quickly silenced.

Unrelated story but speaking of Croatia, I went to Hvar and Dubrovnik not long after Euro 2012 when Ireland and Croatia were in the same group along with Italy and spain. While the Spanish and Italian supporters took the tournament seriously and went to bed early every night to be fresh for the matches the following day, the Irish and Croatian supporters stayed out all night partying together and got on like a house on fire.

As a result every bar I went into while I was in Croatia,the moment the locals worked out I was Irish they went mental and it was free drinks all night. Telling me stories about how much fun they had partying with the Irish fans during the Euros. Awesome people and I had an absolute blast. Can't wait to go back.
 

Foolsgo1d

Peacock
Ireland, like Scotland is cashing Cheques it both cannot afford and shouldn't even consider.

Seems the countries practicing lunatic politics (like Canada) are sucking on some tit allowing them free reign to do whatever they want. How do Irish people get upset over English history and its people when the EU countries wanted to slaughter us for 1000 years is beyond me and now they want that big EU tit as much as Scotland.

It seems that anything to get back at the English is in season regardless of the consequences. Just makes English people more likely to tell these 2 to fuck off back to the land of potato famine.
 

debeguiled

Peacock
Gold Member
RexImperator said:
For some reason this SNL skit got the Irish riled up...

Best comment:
YouTube commenter said:
I'm Irish and I didn't find this funny, not because it was racist though, just because it was shite.

The only thing offensive about that video was that it mostly wasn't funny.

You know society is on the skids if even the Irish can't take a joke anymore.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5146195/Saturday-Night-Live-accused-racism-Irish-media.html

People in Ireland and on social media are criticizing Saturday Night Live for its Aer Lingus skit, claiming the skit plays into Irish stereotypes.
The Saoirse Ronan-starring skit is even being branded 'racist' and a 'hate crime' by some on Twitter.
Donald Clarke, writing in the Irish Times, said: 'No British sketch show would now even attempt these levels of Paddywhackery.'

How long before we will be hearing that paddywhackery is violence?

Talk about your drunk canary in a potato field.
 

lowhead360

Sparrow
Interesting. I always had an image in my mind of the Irish as a take-no-shit kind of people who would always be willing to spill their blood to protect their independence and culture.

Did this image have some truth at one point, or was it more or less always like this (even with the Catholic Church being as strong as it was)?
 

Syberpunk

Pelican
Gold Member
lowhead360 said:
Interesting. I always had an image in my mind of the Irish as a take-no-shit kind of people who would always be willing to spill their blood to protect their independence and culture.

Did this image have some truth at one point, or was it more or less always like this (even with the Catholic Church being as strong as it was)?

For centuries there was dozens of failed revolutions, England conquered Dublin as a beachhead, but then rest of the country was constantly being fought and won from the Irish only for the Irish to win it back, they were too ruly and tribal to rule until 1603 or so when the last kings of Ireland/Earls fled for the European continent, then the UK decided to plant what has become known as Northern Ireland with Protestant farmers starting there first, in large part it failed, but the settlers stayed there with the native Catholics.

Cue another 3 centuries of religious strife and violence and failed revolutions and we have the peaceful stalemate we have today where there is one island, two states if you will, but is ruled Republic of Ireland (26 counties) and a poorly managed Northern Ireland (of 6 counties ruled at times by the UK (directly at the moment), because the local parties always fall out of other some rather arbitary mishap that is indignant outrage to the max). Imagine in the USA, the far left and far right having to make a coalition government, because they're the only two that kept getting voted in, ending up with most of the pie. Long story short.

To answer your question the fight has been bred out of the Irish and we've being told to forget because any of idea of Nationalism gets linked to the situation in Northern Ireland as a n accusation that you are trying to restart a war (over petty reasons anyway now because few Catholics and Protestants are practicing anyway) and not the fact of having the idea of nationalism having nothing to do with the British people at all or even a 32 country state, but perhaps unchecked immigration which the leftie marxist nationalist Party Sinn Fein (former terrorist party and don't let anyone lie to you) are all in favour for north and south.

We have tunnel vision and its going to come bite us in the arse. The elite would rather have us fight the English and ourselves, than see the other threats, because it has context and history, its easy

The media and public have no context for an Islamic Caliphate, its alien to them and 98% people. And would be a REAL honest to god fight to save our souls, where everybody has skin in the game and something REAL to fight for again.

Another plantation of Ulster again just like in the 17th century that we still feel today and all the suffering since and that was a culture we invited in that something we had almost everything in common with, if we couldn't deal with that minor change, then how the FUCK do our leaders expect to integrate an absolutely alien culture to our own?
 

RatInTheWoods

Hummingbird
Gold Member
When I went to Dublin, all I saw was Italian and Chinese tourists, and polich servicing everyone in the pubs and restaurants.

The only Irish person I saw was a druggo passed on on a dirty mattress on a back street.

Once you get out of the city it was grand.
 

N°6

Hummingbird
^Good post Cyberpunk

When an 18-year old whom I met in England recently told me that she wished Sinn Féin took votes in England because of its "progressive" politics, you know its bad. The political wing of the IRA is naw marketing itself as the transgender Swedish style party of choice.

From the perspective of British power, the Ulster plantations and those round the Norman "Pale of a Settlement" didn't succeed in making the native Irish Protestant (or Anglican, strictly speaking) but they succeeded in keeping the Spanish and French out of Ireland which would have restricted the Royal Navy's access to the Atlantic and the Americas.

What Ireland is facing now makes the Plantations look like tourism.
 

Syberpunk

Pelican
Gold Member
RexImperator said:
For some reason this SNL skit got the Irish riled up...

Best comment:
YouTube commenter said:
I'm Irish and I didn't find this funny, not because it was racist though, just because it was shite.

It's awful, if you want a impersonation of some of the Irish look at this...

UK and Irish people will remember Postman Pat's a children's cartoon frommthe 80's/90's, in the last few years some geniuses dubbed with thick rural farmer Irish accents and how we love to make drama, this is not far of how people curse at each other to their face when trying to get something done....no subtitles, see if you can understand. Hilarious.



 

3extra

Woodpecker
I recently returned to Ireland after six years abroad.

Syberpunk is on the money.

I know that multiculturalism/immigration have their drawbacks but Christ, at least the standard of women in Ireland has gone up.
 
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