IRS: Bitcoin is not currency

spalex said:
Well, the first person someone says when asked about bit-coins is "It is a virtual currency"


May as well call it an Imaginary Currency.

Just like USD.

Didn't you know that 97% of USD only exists virtually?



Veloce said:
assman said:
IRS: Bitcoin is not currency

No surprise here - government is protecting the most important (and perverse) monopoly there is.

Wrap your head around the concept of paying capital gains tax on Bitcoin appreciation that comes about as a result of dollar printing. If you didn't get that, stop and really think about what the foregoing means.

No surprise indeed, and something that I predicted would happen.

I admit I'm not the most Bitcoin-savvy individual. I see Bitcoin from an outsider's perspective. And from an outsider, I would actually agree with the government that Bitcoin in its present form appears to be more of a commodity than a currency.

Even though Bitcoin is a peer-regulated currency as opposed to a government regulated currency, it appears to me that the value of Bitcoin is measured in relation to the U.S. dollar. The dollar is still the reference point to the value of Bitcoin.

To an outsider, Bitcoin appears to be a commodity and potential investment vehicle. To my knowledge, there's not a single employer that pays their employees in Bitcoin. Employers and employees can't pay their taxes in Bitcoin. We pay into a system with government issued currency, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Bitcoin, at present, appears to be a vehicle used primarily for online trade.

In the future, there is a possibility that peer-regulated "startup" currency could overthrow fiat currency, and it's pretty mind-boggling and exciting to think about the implications, but in the interim there's not a government on Earth that's going to recognize Bitcoin as a legitimate currency. They'll treat it like any other commodity like gold or crude oil.

This should surprise no one. If the IRS doesn't treat gold, which has been used as a currency for over 10,000 years, as a currency, it seemed unlikely that bitcoin, which has been around a few years, would be treated as a currency.

Bitcoin is, as you have said, a commodity. A position in bitcoin is speculation; it is not an investment. It has no cash flows and a short trading history, insufficient to conclude if it is mean-reverting etc, it has no readily determinable value. It is tulip bulbs.

Given the way western governments overspend, and also the way people distrust them, some alternative to western fiat currency seems likely. It will likely be some form of electronic currency, perhaps a block-chain based "crypto" currency. Whether that will be bitcoin or Libra or some yet-to-be-launched currency remains to be seen. In 1995, everyone was convinced that NetScape Navigator would dominate the browser space, as it was first to market. Then Internet Explorer came along. Both are gone now. We don't know where this space will go yet; too young. Maybe cannabis will be money in 2030! If you can't spend it, at least you can ingest it.

I heard Hillary Clinton was launching her own crypto-currency, BITch Coin...

Kid Twist

I asked this in the other thread too, so forgive me, but has anyone looked into bitcoin (Roth) IRA?

I don't think dirty coins would be a problem, but that maybe seems the best, most kosher way to invest and hold if you think long term it'll rise. Which I do.



Gold Member
Kid Twist said:
I asked this in the other thread too, so forgive me, but has anyone looked into bitcoin (Roth) IRA?

I don't think dirty coins would be a problem, but that maybe seems the best, most kosher way to invest and hold if you think long term it'll rise. Which I do.


A Bitcoin BTC IRA sounds like a terrible idea in my opinion. BTC is a currency that can't scale and is now basically just a speculative asset. Of course you can make short-term gains by trading it but holding long term doesn't seem smart.


IMO I don't really feel that bitcoin may not disappear but it's not going to be worth as much money is worth today. If the price of bitcoin became stable by any chance and subsequently became a payment currency, the government would try to shut it down in one way or another. As soon as bitcoin affected the monetary policy of central banks, I am 100% sure that the government would come up with some idea. The general tendency that I see in free economies (the usa, europe, etc) is that the government is getting bigger and bigger and they are also using Keynesian recipes to solve economic problems. You just have to think who has been appointed as the president of the European central bank and how interest rates are not increasing. This people don't seem to advocate for a free currency.

Sure, you can make some money on bitcoin, above all in short trades. The problem is see with bitcoin is that when for example you analyze a stock, is true that there is some subjectivity attached to it, but in the end you analyze your decision on the annual report. Nonetheless, the value of bitcoin is 100% on expectations. So, if you expect to make a lot of money with bitcoin, you have also to expect to lose everything because is literally impossible to analyze the whole value of bitcoin objectively . I think that there should be some kind of balance. If you expect earning a lot from something, you also should be able to expect to lose a lot of money.


Gold Member
Last I checked the setup fee on the BTC IRA was 15% - basically, a 15% BTC grab on everyone's IRA they set up... Not only an unethical red flag but an outrageous cost - Think Fisher Investments where the IRA manager earns when you earn and in proportion to what you earn without Skimming 15% off the top - even the mob only skimmed 10% off the take when they controlled the Vegas, etc Counting Rooms!

Plus the arsefarts who created the BTC IRA Company all looked like Stoner Surfer Dudes in their Videos - not quite inspiring fiduciary trust. Phock that.