Is boxing underrated?
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MikeCF said:
Hmm, your word vs the owner of Gleason's, tough matchup...
There are no girls here, no need to preen.
Magnum
Sparrow
I've fought as a amateur in boxing and it is much harder than people think.I've also been a cornerman for pro boxing and let me tell you it is fucking brutal up close.Watching it on TV or even being 10 rows back in the arena wont give you an idea of the punishment involved.In my opinion boxers endure more punishment than the mma guys as the fights are longer and more emphasis is placed on hard punches to the head.But they're both tough sports so they both deserve respect.
If you were young kids like me and knew all these types of martial arts would you still go for boxing?
Persinally, I dont care about the ring, cage fights whatever they do these days because i dont want to compete.
I care about the whole lifestyle. How would you grow while boxing from young age and what kind of people do you meet?
Persinally, I dont care about the ring, cage fights whatever they do these days because i dont want to compete.
I care about the whole lifestyle. How would you grow while boxing from young age and what kind of people do you meet?
thegmanifesto said:
I also disagree gracefully with the G. I LOVE boxing and the grit you develop with it as well as the discipline but logically, a fighting art where you only focus on using the upper limbs is by virtue, limited to another where you can use anything to get it done.
A true martial art (observe the word martial means war) would involves everything a human has to take down another human.
One might start off with kicks to their opponents soft tissue. This is the same as a jab in boxing. It would be stupid for an opponent who has long legs and can keep annoying their opponent with painful kicks not to take advantage.
The boxer barrows through the kicks somehow and closes in for preferred body shots. Fine, however, he is at a disadvantage by attacking as he is forced to make a move as to move out of the range of the guy who is skilled with delivering those painful long range kicks.
He may and should be at the disadvantage to suffer some kind of nasty counter move if he is fighting against an EQUALLY skilled martial artist.
What says thou, G?
Moma said:
thegmanifesto said:
G, correct me if I am wrong and with all due respect, I am a rookie out there. I have not observed many fights amongst differently trained professionals. Logically, it seems that someone who is trained to use their fists mixed with kicks will win.
That video you posted of those two fat guys means absolutely nothing.
Many Boxer vs Kickboxer fights have shown, a boxer can't use his flurry of punches, if he can't get close to the kickboxer, who will keep him at range with his kicks to the groin, knees and legs.
"A famous fight between Muhammed Ali and a Japanese martial artisit, attested to this, where Ali was unable to land one single punch, but the Japanese martial artist caused massive damage to Ali's legs."
As I said, I am a huge fan of boxing but let's be rational here. Let's disconnect personal bias from this.
You have it ALL in MMA. Good boxers/strikers. Good grappling guys. Good submission guys ect.
Im almost certain boxing will go extinct (decrease substantially in popularity). Almost ALL the young people today watch MMA. Once the last bit off old people die off you will be left with all the guys that grew up watching MMA.
Boxing right now has only ONE big ticket fight, and that fight might not ever happen.
MMA on the other hand is turning out big tickets every 3-4 months.
Anderson Silva is a great striker
Im almost certain boxing will go extinct (decrease substantially in popularity). Almost ALL the young people today watch MMA. Once the last bit off old people die off you will be left with all the guys that grew up watching MMA.
Boxing right now has only ONE big ticket fight, and that fight might not ever happen.
MMA on the other hand is turning out big tickets every 3-4 months.
Anderson Silva is a great striker
Personally, I think boxing is a far more primal, manly sport.
Who cares what works best in a given situation? You'll only end up theory-crafting forever. Are you training just so you can go pick fights? If so, you're in it for the wrong reasons.
That aside, I stopped worrying about the entertainment value of things a long time ago. Jersey Shore and American Idol are popular, but that doesn't mean I have any interest in watching them.
Who cares what works best in a given situation? You'll only end up theory-crafting forever. Are you training just so you can go pick fights? If so, you're in it for the wrong reasons.
That aside, I stopped worrying about the entertainment value of things a long time ago. Jersey Shore and American Idol are popular, but that doesn't mean I have any interest in watching them.
Moma said:
We are getting way off base here, I never said Boxing is better than MMA.
I was responding to a comment at the beginning when someone said MMA is always better than boxing, which is false on many levels.
Side note:
That fight between Ali and Inoki you mentioned was ruled a draw.
Dash Global said:
They will both co-exist.
To my knowledge boxing generates a lot more money still than MMA.
Technically speaking MMA IS boxing.
Along with every other fighting style.
So by logic MMA is better than boxing.
One part is never greater than the sum/whole.
Along with every other fighting style.
So by logic MMA is better than boxing.
One part is never greater than the sum/whole.
thegmanifesto said:
Do you agree with that draw? A draw where, correct me if I am wrong, one opponent suffered damages to their body where as the other one was untouched? Where does the draw come out from that?
I agree that a boxer who adds grappling/wrestling and kicking to his repetoire, thus becoming a MMA if one wishes to coin that art form, will ALWAYS be more effective than a man who solely focuses on being a boxer.
Of course, flukes will happen.
An armed 30 year old trained in killing for 15 years can be killed by an unarmed 15 year old. But my money is generally going to be on the armed trained 30 year old.
I trust you see where I am coming from?
Moma said:
It's fighting match, not a bodybuilding competition. You don't need six pack abs to win. That white "fat guy" is a former UFC heavyweight champion. That black "fat guy" is also a former heavyweight champion, not to mention an Olympic gold medalist. And this guy was widely considered the baddest man on the planet for several years:
You sound foolish making such ridiculous statements, like the one above and that boxing is not a true martial art.
You guys criticizing boxing - it's like you're calling an Olympic gold medalist lifter weak because he can't bench press 500 lbs. Or calling a top marathoner slow because he can't out-sprint Usain Bolt. Have you gotten over the Batman vs Superman debate yet? You just aren't going to win at sports at which you don't train (usually).
MMA is appealing because it's a complete system and incorporates everything. But unless you're going to start fighting, that's pretty irrelevant. Choose the sport that satisfies you most.
For me, that's boxing. Grappling doesn't seem all that satisfying. Muay Thai is appealing, but there's already so much to master in Western boxing that throwing knees, kicks and elbows into the mix seems like a bad idea. Footwork alone in boxing is huge, and requires lots of training to achieve proficiency, even though you're not striking with your feet. And I just like using my fists more.
Some like boxing, some like MMA. They are both great training for fitness and confidence building.
In terms of who would win between a boxer and an MMA guy, it just depends on who is fighting. A highly skilled boxer who is a great athlete would proably beat an MMA guy with average skills and athleticism. On the other hand, a a highly skilled MMA guy would proabbly beat an average boxer. Personally, I think the more skills you can master, the better. I always wanted to see Mike Tyson vs Bruce Lee. Size matters, weight class matters. I also would like to see George St. Pierre vs Shaq, thats the kind of shit I think about. It doesn't really matter though. Just do what you like and watch what you like.
In terms of survival and actually fighting for you life...
Thats all that matters. The guy who has been through many wars and battles will have a huge advantage over the corporate 9-5 guy who had been taking BJJ "classes" for a few years. Once that fight is on, its about survival, its almost animalistic. the "killer" can sense weakness, just by looking in your eyes and at your body language. The suburban "boxer-cise guy" has never fought for his life, or fought for food. He has only trained in a gym.
I have a freind who grew up in the jungles of Colombia. He used to kill animals to eat. His family has killed a few people who tried to kill them. He is literally a "killer". He has no formal boxing or MMA training. Fighting this guy would be like fighting a wild animal. You can't get that kind of training in an MMA or boxing class. This guy makes guys from the hood look soft, and compared to him, they are.
I have another friend who went to prison. Before prison he was taking some bullshit boxing classes at the local gym. He thought he was a pretty good fighter. And, in the safe environment of the boxing gym, he was. I asked him about the guys in prison. He said they have no formal training but they destroy guys who have "black belts" from some bullshit karate studio. These guys are wild animals. They exist to hurt people. They have no job, no family, no purpose, other then hand to hand warfare.
He has seen guys get pieces of their faces biten off and guys get their dicks cut off with a razor blades.
You could train for 10 years, taking classes, hitting bags, shadow boxing, learning footwork, watching tapes, dieting, and lifting weights. But, if you ever come across a real killer, he will smell the fear coming off of your body. He will see the fear in your eyes. Will your training and practice hold up then? Will you be able to execute your moves in a real world setting with your life on the line? You better have the skills of a guy like GSP or Anderson Silva, otherwise you will be shitting your pants and crying for your mommy as this guy puts your brains on the sidewalk. Better to have a gun.
In terms of who would win between a boxer and an MMA guy, it just depends on who is fighting. A highly skilled boxer who is a great athlete would proably beat an MMA guy with average skills and athleticism. On the other hand, a a highly skilled MMA guy would proabbly beat an average boxer. Personally, I think the more skills you can master, the better. I always wanted to see Mike Tyson vs Bruce Lee. Size matters, weight class matters. I also would like to see George St. Pierre vs Shaq, thats the kind of shit I think about. It doesn't really matter though. Just do what you like and watch what you like.
In terms of survival and actually fighting for you life...
MikeCF said:
Thats all that matters. The guy who has been through many wars and battles will have a huge advantage over the corporate 9-5 guy who had been taking BJJ "classes" for a few years. Once that fight is on, its about survival, its almost animalistic. the "killer" can sense weakness, just by looking in your eyes and at your body language. The suburban "boxer-cise guy" has never fought for his life, or fought for food. He has only trained in a gym.
I have a freind who grew up in the jungles of Colombia. He used to kill animals to eat. His family has killed a few people who tried to kill them. He is literally a "killer". He has no formal boxing or MMA training. Fighting this guy would be like fighting a wild animal. You can't get that kind of training in an MMA or boxing class. This guy makes guys from the hood look soft, and compared to him, they are.
I have another friend who went to prison. Before prison he was taking some bullshit boxing classes at the local gym. He thought he was a pretty good fighter. And, in the safe environment of the boxing gym, he was. I asked him about the guys in prison. He said they have no formal training but they destroy guys who have "black belts" from some bullshit karate studio. These guys are wild animals. They exist to hurt people. They have no job, no family, no purpose, other then hand to hand warfare.
He has seen guys get pieces of their faces biten off and guys get their dicks cut off with a razor blades.
You could train for 10 years, taking classes, hitting bags, shadow boxing, learning footwork, watching tapes, dieting, and lifting weights. But, if you ever come across a real killer, he will smell the fear coming off of your body. He will see the fear in your eyes. Will your training and practice hold up then? Will you be able to execute your moves in a real world setting with your life on the line? You better have the skills of a guy like GSP or Anderson Silva, otherwise you will be shitting your pants and crying for your mommy as this guy puts your brains on the sidewalk. Better to have a gun.
Moma said:
basilransom said:Moma said:
It's fighting match, not a bodybuilding competition. You don't need six pack abs to win. That white "fat guy" is a former UFC heavyweight champion. That black "fat guy" is also a former heavyweight champion, not to mention an Olympic gold medalist. And this guy was widely considered the baddest man on the planet for several years:
You sound foolish making such ridiculous statements, like the one above and that boxing is not a true martial art.
You guys criticizing boxing - it's like you're calling an Olympic gold medalist lifter weak because he can't bench press 500 lbs. Or calling a top marathoner slow because he can't out-sprint Usain Bolt. Have you gotten over the Batman vs Superman debate yet? You just aren't going to win at sports at which you don't train (usually).
MMA is appealing because it's a complete system and incorporates everything. But unless you're going to start fighting, that's pretty irrelevant. Choose the sport that satisfies you most.
For me, that's boxing. Grappling doesn't seem all that satisfying. Muay Thai is appealing, but there's already so much to master in Western boxing that throwing knees, kicks and elbows into the mix seems like a bad idea. Footwork alone in boxing is huge, and requires lots of training to achieve proficiency, even though you're not striking with your feet. And I just like using my fists more.
I stand by all my statements. I still think the video posted up with two has no bearing in lending any understanding as to why boxing is better than an "MMA".
When I speak of MMA, I am not talking about the televised event specifically.
I speak more of the concept of being able to use all your body parts to win in a fight. The understanding of options available of when one is grounded and exploiting advantages i.e. if you have long legs using them against someone is who is a savage puncher.
Giovonny: I know the seasoned killer will most likely win. At the end of the day, instinct kicks in. But since we cannot and should not immerse ourselves in Columbian forests to kill animals in order to hone our edge in streetfights, the best we can do is simulate this by practicing a martial art in the gym.
So I stand by my statement that a seasoned MMA artist has more advantage than a boxer. I proved that with the extract of the match between one of the greatest boxers that this planet has ever known getting his legs kicked the fcuk out of by a Japanese martial artist. Subsequently, this legendary boxer was unable to even land one of his blows on him. It just makes perfect logical sense as to how that would happen.
Again, I ask you to remove your emotional bias from the art forms and apply logic.
I already told you that I love boxing. My only deterrent is that I don't want to get my beak cracked.
I have done boxing training with a small Latin guy. We sparred gently (I am not a professional). I realise the power and conditioning behind a boxer. I HAVE TOTAL AND ABSOLUTE RESPECT FOR THE ART FORM OF PUGILISM.
But logically, the man with the more options is the man to put the money on.
Curious: How many guys arguing this stuff have ever fought in a ring or cage or been in substantial street fights?
I'm guessing that NONE of the guys trashing boxing have ever been in actual fighting situations. And I'll bet every guy who has scraped gives boxing mad props, and thinks this debate is stupid.
There's probably a message in there.
I'm guessing that NONE of the guys trashing boxing have ever been in actual fighting situations. And I'll bet every guy who has scraped gives boxing mad props, and thinks this debate is stupid.
There's probably a message in there.
I don't think boxing is underrated. Both boxing and MMA can co-exist. I will say that MMA benefited (in popularity) due to how boxing was managed. In MMA, there is a HIGH probability that the 2 best fighters in a weight class will meet. In boxing, the number of governing bodies (WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO, etc) along with promoters protecting fighters allows for more top fighters to "duck" one another and still make money. That is what has hurt boxing.
Gone are the days when Hearns, Leonard, Duran, Hagler and Benitez would fight each other.
Why am I mentioning this?...because it led to boxing becoming less popular thus less guys taking up the sport.
Gone are the days when Hearns, Leonard, Duran, Hagler and Benitez would fight each other.
Why am I mentioning this?...because it led to boxing becoming less popular thus less guys taking up the sport.
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