Is Civilization much Older than we're led to Beleive?

Check out Stonehenge Enigma (http://www.the-stonehenge-enigma.info/) by Robert John Langdon if you're interested in this kind of stuff. He is an amateur, but I think he backs up his theories of Stonehenge being 8000 years old, rather well and his theory of Stonehenge being a temple to a lost civilization of Doggerland (Atlantis), is interesting.

doggerland3_3425067b.jpg
 

Teedub

Crow
Gold Member
Great thread. Based on the responses here, I downloaded all the Graham Hancock podcasts and after getting halfway through one of them, decided to buy his two best-known books: Fingerprints of the Gods and Magicians of the Gods. Even if it isn't all true, I find this kind of stuff utterly fascinating, and the disdain he has for a particular breed of snobby, arrogant 'academic' is palpable, and (like Beast1 said) justified.
 

TravelerKai

Peacock
Gold Member
The Beast1 said:
Relevant:



I have a thread on this somewhere. There are multiple flood myths floating around.

What pisses me off about modern science, anthropology, and archeology is how much of a religion these have become. They aren't willing to admit different viewpoints or evidence into their current "dogma".

There's a lot that we've been lied to about. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a vault somewhere with evidence and scientists studying an alternate form of history too damning for most people to admit.


I loved that video. The only thing I take issue with is the dinosaur theories. Sometimes I think Theologians and others get too much of a hard on for Darwin's theory of evolution, that they want to badly find evidence of humans and dinosaurs on the planet at the same time. As if that would make Intelligent Design accurate.

Carbon dating shows that these bones are ridiculously old. We have Neanderthal DNA mixed in with ours. The oil in the ground is much older than 6K years old. These things are still facts regardless of what any actual theory states.

Looking at the size of dinosaurs alone does not seem to logically make sense that human beings could compete in an ecosystem at the same time as a T-Rex either. A T-rex is ~40 feet tall. Most Nephilim and Giant literature I have read has not shown any men over 35 feet tall. If a T-Rex could be tamed or handled by giants, that would be pretty strong of a claim.

You got bones in the ground of dinosaurs that are 66ft tall and 85 tons
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanosaur
And they think Giants bred them? I'm not so certain about that. Even Brontosaurus is hardly smaller than that. If they tamed anything I bet it was a mammoth or a large dire wolf.

Is it possible that some smaller kinds were walking around on the Earth when humans were? Does that mean that evolution is completely bunk? Technically speaking no. Maybe zealot atheists get folks riled up about evolution, but considering how hard ancient history is to study, we probably need all the ideas we can find and see what ultimately makes sense.

One thing I do not see discussed alot more is the idea regarding the ozone layer being super thick in prehistoric times. It may have kept the sun from aging humans for a long time (like the age accounts in the Old Testament). A thicker ozone would allow for larger dinosaurs and much larger plants, and follows fossil records of dinosaurs getting smaller over time. Something caused the ozone to thin out but I have not found anything yet that really digs into that.
 

kikuyu1

 
Banned
A biblical anthropologist showed how Africans migrated during the Wet Holocene roughly 10 kya through the ME and into Asia via river systems. Yes,Angkor wat is much older than thought since it was built the same time as the rain eroded Giza pyramid by the same people.
The oldest civilization is undoubtedly Adams calendar in southern Africa,estimated at 75-250 kya. Interestingly,it ties in with Sitchins' hypothesis stating this is where the Anunnaki bred the Homo erectus.

These are a series of ancient stone dolmens,road works and buildings covering hundreds of thousands of km in SA and Mozambique best seen from the air. I've no luck uploading a pic now-someone else try.
 

thoughtgypsy

Kingfisher
Gold Member
kikuyu1 said:
A biblical anthropologist showed how Africans migrated during the Wet Holocene roughly 10 kya through the ME and into Asia via river systems. Yes,Angkor wat is much older than thought since it was built the same time as the rain eroded Giza pyramid by the same people.
The oldest civilization is undoubtedly Adams calendar in southern Africa,estimated at 75-250 kya. Interestingly,it ties in with Sitchins' hypothesis stating this is where the Anunnaki bred the Homo erectus.

These are a series of ancient stone dolmens,road works and buildings covering hundreds of thousands of km in SA and Mozambique best seen from the air. I've no luck uploading a pic now-someone else try.

Interesting. I've never heard of this before.

Adam’s Calendar is controversially suggested to be the oldest man-made structure in the world. Sometimes referred to as "African Stonehenge", it predates both Stonehenge and the Great Pyramid of Giza by tens of thousands of years. Located in Mpumalanga, South Africa it is a standing stone circle about 30 meters in diameter and has been estimated by some accounts to be more than 75,000 years old. Various astronomical alignments have been identified at the site and it is possibly the only example of a completely functional, mostly intact megalithic stone calendar in the world.

Today, researcher and authority on the subject, Michael Tellinger, has estimated the number of ancient stone ruins to be 100,000 or possibly much higher. Some of these “stone circles” have no doors or entrances while most are connected by an expansive network of channels that are often misinterpreted as “roads” by some historians. This connected grid of circular ruins are immersed in a seemingly never-ending expanse of ancient agricultural terraces surrounding the structures. Adam’s Calendar is considered to be the most famous among these ruins.

ancient-earthworks-and-stone-structures.jpg


The site is aptly named Adam’s Calendar because the stones are placed to track the movement of the sun, which casts shadows on the rock. It still works perfectly as a calendar today by following the shadow of the setting sun, which is cast by the taller central monolith onto the flat stone beside it. This remarkable calendar was originally a large circular stone structure resembling Stonehenge and in the center of the 'circle' are two upright stones which are said to have been carved. Its original shape is still clearly visible from satellite images. The stones are all dolomite, weighing up to 5 tons each, and are said to have been transported from a distant site.

[img=400x300]http://www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/field/image/Adams-Calendar.jpg[/img]

Rodney-Hale-plan-of-Adams-Calendar.jpg


The first calculations of the age of the calendar were made based on the rise of Orion, a constellation known for its three bright stars forming the "belt" of the mythical hunter. The Earth wobbles on its axis, so the stars and constellations change their angle of presentation in the night sky on a cyclical basis. This rotation, called the precession completes a cycle about every 26,000 years. By determining when the three stars of Orion's belt were positioned flat (horizontal) against the horizon, it is possible to estimate the time when the three stones in the calendar were in alignment with these stars. According to Tellinger, a calculation done by astronomer Bill Hollenbach based on the rise of Orion suggested an age of the site of at least 75,000 years. A further calculation done in June 2009, suggested an age of at least 160,000 years, based on the rise of Orion 'flat on the horizon' but also on the 'erosion of dolerite stones' found at the site. Some pieces of the marker stones had been broken off and sat on the ground, exposed to natural erosion. When the pieces were put back together about 3 cm of stone had already been worn away. These calculation helped assess the age of the site by calculating the erosion rate of the dolerite.

The latest and most interesting discovery of the stone circles and Adam’s Calendar is the sound frequencies of the rock formations from the earth below them. With modern technology, Tellinger and scientists have been able to detect and measure sound frequencies with acoustic properties made from the earth inside the circles which conduct electricity. These sound frequencies of the earth under the stones are shaped as flowers of sacred geometry as they surface to the ground.
There is still much about Adam’s calendar that is yet to be understood, including who built them, what their civilization was like, and how they constructed it with such precise measurements. Perhaps in time, more research will piece together this prehistoric mystery.

http://www.ancient-origins.net/anci...-calendar-oldest-megalithic-site-world-003160

It seems as though it's dating was conducted based on it's astronomical alignment, not by radiocarbon decay. I'd be curious to see what that would produce.

Africa is regarded as the site where evidence of the oldest religious ritual is found. There is a python/serpent religious site in Botswana where artifacts taken from hundreds of miles away were collected. It's been dated to over 70,000 years ago.
https://www.apollon.uio.no/english/articles/2006/python-english.html

pytonslange_natt200.jpg


We are beginning to discover increasing evidence of a cataclysmic event which occurred roughly 12,900 years ago. Based on the geologic record, it's likely that a large comet struck the Earth, resulting in global flooding, volcanic activity, mass fires, and a persistent debris cloud in the upper atmosphere.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/did-a-comet-hit-earth-12900-years-ago/

Most cultures, even historically isolated ones, contain mythologies of a great flood which nearly wiped out humanity. Perhaps this is the event they are describing.

If such an event were to happen, many of the coastal civilizations would have been buried, and many others would have been buried, leaving little trace. If these cataclysmic events were more common than expected, it's possible that there are cyclical periods of civilization which remain to be discovered. Plato's description of Solon's conversation with the Egyptian priesthood describes such a scenario.
 

Repo

Hummingbird
Would radiocarbon dating procide anything useful though, since it would tell the age if the stones, but not when they were cut and moved, yes?
 

thoughtgypsy

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Repo said:
Would radiocarbon dating procide anything useful though, since it would tell the age if the stones, but not when they were cut and moved, yes?

I suppose it depends how it were conducted. If a geologist wanted to dismiss the antiquity of the site, they could select the most recent, shallow layers of construction to sway the results into a much younger result.

Graham Hancock believes this is what was done at the Gunung Padang megalithic site. The team he worked with revealed an enormous construction project, including an internal chamber revealed by remote sensing. They've been attempting to gain the ability to conduct further research on the site, with little results. When a team relented and allowed dating of the site, they chose the most shallow, recent construction:

[img=600x400]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Gunung_Padang_Site.jpg[/img]

Not the sections which are believed to be indicative of more antiquated and significant phases of construction:

Gunung-Padang-2.jpg


More discussion here: https://grahamhancock.com/gunung-padang-latest-hancock/
 

weambulance

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Some pieces of the marker stones had been broken off and sat on the ground, exposed to natural erosion. When the pieces were put back together about 3 cm of stone had already been worn away. These calculation helped assess the age of the site by calculating the erosion rate of the dolerite.

Well the stones aren't dolerite if they're made of dolomite, they're dolostone. Dolerite is an igneous rock that does not have dolomite in it. But anyway, if the rocks are dolostone looking at erosion is a fairly decent method of guessing how long since the rocks were broken, which happened after they were cut. So they're establishing a boundary on the near end of the age.

Dolomite is a magnesium carbonate mineral that erodes fast on a geologic scale because meteoric water, which is a fancy way of saying rain, is acidic. You have to work with a pile of assumptions that may or may not be correct to guess at how long ago those rock pieces were separated, like CO2 levels in the atmosphere over time and how much rainfall there was, but getting within 10,000 years of the real date seems plausible.

You can't radiocarbon date rocks, for general information. Most rocks have no carbon in them to begin with, and radiocarbon dating is only good for things about 50,000 years old anyway, which is to the earth as a few hours are to humans. Geologists use many different methods to date rocks, some similar to radiocarbon dating (K-Ar dating), some quite different.
 

Bobb Johnson

 
Banned
kikuyu1 wrote:

A biblical anthropologist showed how Africans migrated during the Wet Holocene roughly 10 kya through the ME and into Asia via river systems. Yes,Angkor wat is much older than thought since it was built the same time as the rain eroded Giza pyramid by the same people.
The oldest civilization is undoubtedly Adams calendar in southern Africa,estimated at 75-250 kya. Interestingly,it ties in with Sitchins' hypothesis stating this is where the Anunnaki bred the Homo erectus.

These are a series of ancient stone dolmens,road works and buildings covering hundreds of thousands of km in SA and Mozambique best seen from the air. I've no luck uploading a pic now-someone else try.

Interestingly the San people (bushman) in Southern Africa left many cave paintings and art. Perhaps they may have been responsible for Adam's Calendar.

For instance, Blombos Cave near Cape Town has cave art that dates back 70,000-100,000 years old.

This suggests civilization in Southern Africa may have been the earliest form of civilization.
 

Teedub

Crow
Gold Member
Shout out to Thought Gypsy and others in this thread. I've since got my hands on a lot of material and I'm a firm believer that the original Sphinx (possibly a lion rather than a human face - due to the constellation Leo, I think is the theory) is WAY older than what we're told by mainstream archaeology. There's so much data out there now about a possible comet collision that would have massively affected earth around the period these theories say had huge floods etc.

Great thread. Also props to Joe Rogan for giving these guys like Graham Hancock, John Anthony West etc a platform.
 

sterling_archer

Hummingbird
Why didn't I saw this thread earlier? I am researching things like that for at least 6 years. I have gathered much information over that period of time, but sadly didn't see evidence in the first place (although many didn't).

Teedub, yes, Sphinx was a lion. It was made during age of Leo and when the Egyptians came much later, they sculpted head of the lion into the head of a pharaoh.
Reason why the Sphinx's head is disproportionate to the body is that they probably used both lions head and the mane to construct the head. Hope that makes sense what I said.

Regarding ancient civilizations, it came to my attention from a certain individual very interesting take on Atlantis. It seems Atlantis didn't exist as a continent, but Lemuria did.
Atlanteans were in fact nomad, seafaring people, like Phoenicians (their descendants) and their government could be described as "thalassocracy" (rule of the sea).
In their time (parallel to ancient Egypt and Greece) they supposedly had compass, monocular and possibly sextant. Also they had more durable ships then their Egyptian and Greek counterparts so they could sail across Mediterranean sea and Atlantic Ocean. Supposedly they also waged war once on the city state of Athens.

What this take on Atlantis differs is in following:
- it is more realistic then flying ships who supposedly were used by Atlanteans
- they lived in the time of ancient Egypt and were gone shortly before rise of the Greece
- Plato probably mixed fact and fiction, he constructed his story based on stories of Egyptian merchants who traded with Atlanteans
- fictional stories and myths about them stem from the fact that with their advanced gadgets for that time they appeared god like to the others
 

Belgrano

Ostrich
Gold Member
sterling_archer said:
It seems Atlantis didn't exist as a continent, but Lemuria did.

How did you come to this conclusion, or what do you identify as Lemuria?
I think with our present day knowledge of geology and bathymetry we would definitely know about a sunken continent or landmass.
There are quite a few, but they usually became submerged long before modern humans developed.
 

sterling_archer

Hummingbird
Lemuria would have been situated in the Pacific ocean and for example Easter Islands would be its remnants.

It is very hard to talk about Lemuria without dwelling into hard core Theosophy writings which sound extremely gibberish to those who haven't read them.
According to them, Lemuria was home to beings what people in antique period of history described as "cyclops" and "giants". They were peaceful shepherds and limited in technology and knowledge.

That is Theosophical take on Lemuria. There is other, proposed by Semir Osmanagich, bosnian archeologist (author of Bosnia pyramids hyphotesis, reported as pseudo by scientific establishment) with Lemuria being advanced humanoid civilization responsible with architectural achievements in South and North America and East Asia.
 

Vinny

 
Banned
My favorite conspiracy theory!
Just wish for it to be true. That would make our world so much more amazing.

For those who like this I advice reading Charriots of the Gods and watching the Ancient Aliens series from History channel.

It is entertaining, but I don't like how they try to drag it all as long as posible. All could be summed up to one episode or one book, but the rest is money making.
Same goes with Charriots of the Gods by Fon Daniken. Don't read other books, they will be repeating a lot.

Another problem with conspiracy theories is that same way as they contradict conventional history they also contradict one another. There must be truth there somewhere. And it would be fascinating to learn it.
 

Vinny

 
Banned
godzilla said:
Right before reading this thread, I was actually reading about the genealogy study in Iceland that places the father of humanity at 237,000 years old, interesting stuff, not that far off 210,000 years for the oldest human remains that Graham Hancock mentions in that podcast.

Seems highly likely that there is much more to human history then we will ever know.

If your ever gaming in Ireland, I found this site fascinating...its reachable from Dublin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brú_na_Bóinne

I was in Ireland this July. Visiting Bru na Boine was my priority. Amazing that according to conventional history it is older than Pyramids and the Stonehenge. But can you believe conventional history?

It was discovered accidentally buried under earth and the older the monument the higher is the chance it is buried. How many more secret earth contains.

However I don't advice going to Ireland for pussy. The quality is lowest I have seen in my life.

That makes me want to travel more combining the pussy hunt with exploring ancient megalithic structures in search of alien technology.

2 new entries in my bucket list.
Bang Latin chicks while visiting Machu Picchu.
Bang Russian tourist chicks on a tour to Pyramids of Giza.
 

sterling_archer

Hummingbird
I don't actually consider it conspiracy theory, more like a uncharted waters which have perplexed people since antiquity.

Although we could consider it conspiracy if we take the fact that scientific establishment not only dismisses it before researching it, but also don't want to research it in the first place.
According to that line of thinking, we could make theories about why are they doing that. Are they hiding anything, fearing that sudden and huge revelation could make void their phd's and well established official world history?
 

weambulance

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Land masses disappear for three reasons: submergence with rising sea level, erosion, and explosive eruption (which I suppose you could consider a specialized form of erosion). Or a combination of the three. The last two items only really apply to small islands in a reasonable time frame (<1 million years). There is plenty of land that was habitable (and was frankly likely to have been inhabited, being on the coast) during the span of human existence that is now submerged by rising sea level. Seems quite likely to me that there were civilizations living on what are now continental shelves that we have no idea existed. Hell, I'm sure there were civilizations living well inland that simply disappeared to time because they didn't leave persistent remnants, or they lived in places with extreme natural action (weathering, jungles, etc) that wiped their remains clean in a few centuries.

However, it's impossible for an actual continent to have existed in the Pacific that just isn't there anymore. Continental crust can't go away, other than in minuscule amounts. It can erode, it can move around, it can crash into other continents and crumple up or get wedged together like in India, but it can't just disappear. Easter Island is a volcanic island, not a remnant of a continent.

I'm sure there's plenty about history we don't know, or that we're wrong about. But the reason scientists quite often dismiss theories like this out of hand is not because they're afraid to look into them, but because the theories are obviously wildly inconsistent with the enormous body of research that has already been done. That's usually because the people supporting the theories don't understand the basic scientific principles they're claiming are wrong.

When someone tells me they think there used to be a continent in the Pacific that just disappeared (for example), they're not just saying they think I'm wrong in my understanding of history. They're saying they think I'm wrong about all the physical science I've ever learned and successfully applied, that the rest of the world is observably consistent with.

That's the common problem I see, anyway. Could we be wrong about history? Absolutely. Have we been going down the wrong track in the physical sciences for centuries, and it's just a total coincidence that things like computers and airplanes and space missions worked out? Pretty hard to swallow that one, and that's what it often boils down to.
 
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