Is Civilization much Older than we're led to Beleive?

Iran is a country that has only existed since the 20th century.

Those people were not "Iranian" anymore than the proto-Indo-Europeans were Ukrainian.

Andaman islanders are not officially negroid, though I personally think they are negroid and not representative of the australoids that inhabited the Indian subcontinent back then. Those I think were probably closest to Sri-Lankans today.

They were "Near Eastern Anatolian Farmers".
 
Ghengis,

I'll read your post in detail and get back to you.

Sometimes you have to use strong language to get a reaction or it would just be me and Sterling_Archer posting about this stuff.
 

sterling_archer

Hummingbird
Regarding Andaman islanders, they are one of the most fascinating cultures you can probably think of. No one, except some undiscovered Amazon tribes can come close. Why? They live de facto in stone age and have not made any real contact with civilization. They are 100% hostile and will kill you on sight. The closest people got to them was by helicopter and what happened? They shot at it with bows hahah!
Regarding bows they have absolutely unique ones. Check out this:

imageproxy.php


Bows have just one proper working limb and are very long. In any way they are pretty much low performance but Andamanese prefer them over any circular tiller bows (first bow invented).

What is also interesting? The layout of the bow is the mollegabet bow, found in the Danmark and it dates from mesolithic Europe! The difference is that both limbs here are working ones.

500px-Holmegaard1.JPG
 

Genghis Khan

 
Banned
In terms of Iranian Farmers being Anatolian,

seems they might be distinct groups:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27502179

The agricultural transition profoundly changed human societies. We sequenced and analysed the first genome (1.39x) of an early Neolithic woman from Ganj Dareh, in the Zagros Mountains of Iran, a site with early evidence for an economy based on goat herding, ca. 10,000 BP. We show that Western Iran was inhabited by a population genetically most similar to hunter-gatherers from the Caucasus, but distinct from the Neolithic Anatolian people who later brought food production into Europe.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/07/worlds-first-farmers-were-surprisingly-diverse

But the ancient Iranian DNA was dramatically different from that of the western Anatolian farmers. The two groups of farmers, who lived about 2000 kilometers and 2000 years apart, must have descended from completely different groups of hunter-gatherers who separated 46,000 to 77,000 years ago, Burger says.

A similar genetic disjunction appears in a study led by Harvard University’s David Reich and posted on bioRxiv. This study analyzed ancient DNA from 44 Middle Easterners who lived 14,000 to 3400 years ago, including Natufian hunter-gatherers in Israel, Zagros farmers, and Bronze Age pastoralists in the Eurasian steppe, and compared it with that of 2864 living and ancient people from around the world. By sequencing 1.2 million nucleotides from across each genome, the team found that early farmers of Israel and Jordan (known as the Levant) were genetically distinct from those in the Zagros Mountains, and that both populations were distinct from the western Anatolians who later spread their genes throughout Europe.

The third study, also published on bioRxiv, reported the same stark differences. That study analyzed the complete genome of a 10,000-year-old woman from Ganj Dareh, a site in the Zagros Mountains with the world’s oldest evidence of goat herding.

Burger and Reich also each used their data to peer even further back in time, to the ancestors of the Zagros Mountain farmers. They found that the Zagros people descend from a group of basal Eurasians who separated from the ancestors of all other people outside of Africa 50,000 to 60,000 years ago—before other non-Africans interbred with Neandertals. So the Zagros Mountain farmers had less Neandertal DNA than the western Anatolian farmers, whose ancestors must have branched off later.

The descendants of these early farmers went separate ways. Whereas the western Anatolians later migrated to Europe, Reich’s team proposes that the ancient farmers of the Levant migrated to East Africa, where living people carry some of their distinct DNA, and the Zagros Mountain farmers spread north into the Eurasian steppe and east into South Asia.
 

fiasco360

Kingfisher
Orthodox
So a note on the map for genetic paternal haplogroups.

Indeed J1/J2 are Anatolian/Mesopotamian however- certain communities like the Armenians and Assyrians (both Christians) are predominantly R1B and not J1/J2 majority. Even a large amount of R1A is within these two populations.
 

rotinz

 
Banned
I've always found this stuff super interesting. I'm thinking of going to college and I'm considering taking some courses on this. Do you think they get into this kind of deep stuff like ancient civilizations in college or do they stick to more vanilla stuff?
 

YoungBlade

 
Banned
rotinz said:
I've always found this stuff super interesting. I'm thinking of going to college and I'm considering taking some courses on this. Do you think they get into this kind of deep stuff like ancient civilizations in college or do they stick to more vanilla stuff?

They most certainly do not. They don't even get into the cool confirmed "lost civilizations" like Tocharians. Blond-haired, blue-eyed pyramid builders in western china that used marijuana.
 
Antropology is an extremely leftist field, which is unfortunate, cause it is also really interesting.

I suppose archeology is not quite as pozzed, but it has a lot of "wag the dog" level arguments.

History probably has more room for more right wing/conservative oriented students, cause it's more difficult to deny the written word. They do try though, their favorite is to claim all antique history writing to be "symbolic or myth". Then when someone actually takes it as truth, they stumble upon Troy for example.
 

TravelerKai

Peacock
Gold Member
YoungBlade said:
rotinz said:
I've always found this stuff super interesting. I'm thinking of going to college and I'm considering taking some courses on this. Do you think they get into this kind of deep stuff like ancient civilizations in college or do they stick to more vanilla stuff?

They most certainly do not. They don't even get into the cool confirmed "lost civilizations" like Tocharians. Blond-haired, blue-eyed pyramid builders in western china that used marijuana.

What are you talking about? They STILL smoke weed in China! I swear on my nan's grave that stuff I smell when I walk by just about every traditional medicine clinic or hospital is mary jane! I saw some of it from a distance and it looks like a powdered hashish. My wife thinks I'm crazy but I keep telling her that they are burning weed in there for therapeutic use! I'm from America. I know weed when I smell it ok?!! MJ illegal in China? My ass!

nomadbrah said:
Antropology is an extremely leftist field, which is unfortunate, cause it is also really interesting.

I suppose archeology is not quite as pozzed, but it has a lot of "wag the dog" level arguments.

History probably has more room for more right wing/conservative oriented students, cause it's more difficult to deny the written word. They do try though, their favorite is to claim all antique history writing to be "symbolic or myth". Then when someone actually takes it as truth, they stumble upon Troy for example.

It's an extremely political field. Not just so much about what mainstream history/science narratives are about, but the universities themselves. If you are not tenured, good luck getting sponsors for digs and funding. Private funding comes from elitist monied art loving patrons. Extremely leftist by default. Just my own observation but, it seems like most get lucky with either a huge book, big discoveries, or both. Others grind it out being the bitch of another famous name for a long ass time.

Either way, make your own fortune and luck. If you like it so much, mix it with as many STEM degrees as you can. Guys with Biology, Chem, Engineering, etc. degrees PLUS those Archaeology and Anthropology fields seem to be alot stronger than their peers.
 

TravelerKai

Peacock
Gold Member
Just found out about the Osirion



Those cut patterns in the rocks! Look EXACTLY like that megalithic site in Peru!!! Not to mention the nobs!

Ancient Egyptians did not cut this stuff with copper tools. Neither did the Ancient Peru peoples. This was a civilization older than them that did this.

With technology good enough to make cut granite stone this well, they had to have the ability to sail across ocean water. If the sea levels were 400 ft less than today, those waters were not as deep, perhaps even had a milder climate, possibly milder hurricane/storms.

Then there is the other issue of giants. We know what 6 foot tall men can do. Worlds Strongest men contestants can pull firetrucks and toss kegs and they are 6'4+ and 350 pounds. What sort of physical limits do 9ft and taller men have? Has anyone ever tried to calculate that?

If Goliath in the Bible is a post flood man alleged to be around 9.6 ft tall, how tall were pre-flood men?

One thing I always took into account was how the ozone layer was much thicker and stronger in prehistoric times. Plants and animals were much larger (dinosaurs etc.). The Bible and other ancient writings discuss humans with long lifespans. Did that Younger Dryas event weaken the ozone layer further making men shorter and live shorter lives? Then there is this Anunnaki business the Sumerians talked about. What the heck are those? Nephalem or something? How did they know that the planets orbited the sun?

Even if we could account for large human beings performing labor to build these things, how in the hell do you explain the laser grade precision cuts in the rocks? Not even a pin can be squeezed between them. No mortar needed. Locked in tight. Tuning forks? Steel? I can imagine that steel cannot last in the ground rotting for several thousands of years. In a 1000 years from now, no cars rotting in a barn from the 1950s will be around. Only rock does not rot or decay like this.

Really the only thing missing is a giant's skeleton. Wacky videos and strange photos are always floating around but nothing mainstream seems to be found on that.

My head is spinning like crazy!

:mindblown:
 
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