Is IQ an effective tool for determining future success?

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Sumanguru

Kingfisher
SamuelBRoberts said:
"I'm not discounting the value of IQ. But I do believe emotional IQ is pretty damn important. Smarts don't mean shit if you can't hold it together, survive through tough times, and learn to be honest about your own flaws and improve them without hating yourself. I worry about people with lower emotional IQs more than I do than those with lower general IQs. Those are the mofos who will resort to violence for petty shit, or beat their children for breathing the wrong way."

The phrase "emotional IQ" has always annoyed me. IQ is a very specific thing, that can be measured, tested, and judged in thousands of ways. "Emotional IQ" is something an author came up with to make people feel better about themselves.

It's like saying, "Yeah, sure. Some guys are taller than others. But other guys are proud, unwavering, badasses who always stand up straight no matter what, even if they might be 5'6''. Those guys are "emotionally tall", even if they're not "tall"."

XPQ22 said:
MENSA should be evidence enough that there are some really unsuccessful, lame people out there with very high IQs.

Yeah. I've met too many brilliant engineers, computer science folks, even English majors/writers who couldn't empathize with people, had zero emotional insight on themselves, and couldn't even carry a basic conversation with someone outside of their field. There needs to be some real world way to reflect that, and emotional IQ is the best I've seen so far.
 

redpillage

 
Banned
Gold Member
Is IQ an effective tool for determining future success?

That is not even a valid question - it's like asking 'is water an effective tool for determining plant growth'? Has public education sunk so low that people are now unable to form proper correlations between the subject and its object? (no insult to the OP but it seems like a glaring issue to me)

One may 'aid' in achieving the other but how can IQ be used to 'determine future success'?

A more appropriate question would be:

Is IQ an effective predictor of future success?

The answer would be: of course not. I myself know many highly intelligent people who in my humble opinion are not very successful - especially academics who get their PhD, then start teaching and rest on their laurels for the remainder of their life. Then again success is relative measure - how exactly do you define it? Dollars earned per year? Recognition within a particular field? Happiness in one's profession? Babes plowed whilst traveling abroad? (Roosh may have an opinion on that)

Inherently an IQ score (i.e. a measure of one's cognitive abilities) is a very effective tool for determining the probability of future success but of course it is unable to predict success. Because quite simply - the more intelligent you are the higher the odds that you are going to leverage that intelligence to your personal benefit (whatever that may be) and that of your community.

Attempting to rationalize IQ scores as an unreliable or unfair measure of mental acuity is downright silly and reflects ignorance at best and a perhaps a low ranking pertinent score at worst. Very rarely will you come across highly intelligent people arguing over IQ scores. They simply accept IQ as a fact of life and move on. The most vehement opposition and emotional outbursts against IQ scoring in my experience comes from the very people who feel threatened by it. And you don't need a Mensa membership to hazard a guess as to who that may be.

I personally only tested once in my life and was rather surprised to be evaluated at 148. Frankly I never considered myself as overly intelligent and as a youngster I actually didn't do very well in school. Maybe I was a late bloomer or perhaps I was simply too distracted by getting laid - I was a bit of a horndog back then. I know for certain that I have a shitty memory and learning languages or rote learning in general is a lot of work for me. But they didn't test me for memory back then - and one could make the point that one's ability to memorize is a type of intelligence. Had it been I would have scored a lot lower. And I wouldn't have cared much really to be honest. I know what I am and what I am capable of. I also have learned to accept my limits.

Food for thought: Have you noticed that IQ scores are only controversial when it comes to humans? Not once have I come across an article that demonizes IQ scoring on animals, such as chimps, dolphins, parrots, etc. That fact alone should give you pause ;-)
 

Tayo

Robin
If success means high earning power then I would say IQ is just one of the factors... I repeat just one of the factor...

E.g Salt is not the only ingredient that makes a meal taste delicious... you get my drift.
 

Peregrine

Pelican
Gold Member
I think the biggest difference is going to be between 100 and 120. 130 and 150 probably aren't that different in terms of life success.
 
"I think the biggest difference is going to be between 100 and 120. 130 and 150 probably aren't that different in terms of life success."
^-

I think in a lot of cases, 130 is going to be more successful than 150. After a certain point you find it really hard to relate to other people. Trump is probably 130 or so, for instance.

That's just me talking out of my ass, though. I don't have any data to back it up.
 

Bazzwaldo

Woodpecker
I have an elder brother with a very high IQ, he is a parasite who lives with my Mum waiting for her to die
I have a younger brother who has an average IQ, he is a parasite who is waiting for my Mum to die
Over the years I have noticed some people are exceptionally practical at using what intelligence/skills they have, whilst others are unable to engage their high intellegence/skill-set into a practical outcome, my siblings come to mind but what they consider sucessful may involve ethical implications
Survival of the fittest will always win no matter what metric you apply it to, from being born into a wealthy family, inheriting beauty, fitness, intellegence, none of this ultimately matters, its all about laying down your skillset practically and I would argue, ethically
 

scorpion

Hummingbird
Gold Member
There's a staggering amount of misunderstanding surrounding IQ, which is why there's often a corresponding hostility towards statistics drawn from IQ.

The main thing to keep in mind is this: the metric of IQ is useless as an absolutely accurate predictive tool when applied individually, but is statistically proven as an absolutely accurate predictive tool when applied to large populations. In other words: if you show me a single individual with an IQ of 130, I cannot definitively say that he will be more successful in life (meaning: higher earning, healthier, less criminally inclined, etc...) than another individual with an IQ of 90. However, if you give me a sample of 1,000 people with IQs of 130 versus 1,000 people with IQs of 90, I can statistically guarantee that the sample of people with 130 IQs will on average be more successful. This is not up for argument. This is not my opinion. This is literally as statistically sound as stating, "An average sample of 100 NFL players will be more athletic than a sample of 100 random Americans."

We don't really know what IQ (also called g for "general intelligence") actually is. We just know that we can sort of measure whatever "it" is with carefully designed tests, and that people who excel at these tests tend to excel in other areas of life that demand cognitive capacity. This phenomenon has been observed repeatedly in thousands of studies, across all cultures and races. Higher IQ, on a population level, always correlates with improved life outcomes. But again, it bears repeating that an individual IQ score is not determinative of anything. It's simply a measurement of how well the person did on an IQ test. We can make predictions based on statistical correlations that we know exist, but statistics also tell us that outliers exist. There are plenty of 90 IQ millionaires walking around. Some people beat the odds, or simply possess other traits that compensate for IQ. If you're 7 feet tall and 300 lbs. of solid muscle, you can probably find a way to leverage those traits to become successful. If you've got an utterly magnetic personality, the world is your oyster. Conversely, there's no shortage of people with 130+ IQs who are total failures, who never took advantage of their intelligence (and who are smart enough to recognize and lament this fact, and become extremely embittered as a result).

People need to stop being offended by discussions of IQ. These statistics aren't personal. No one is talking about you. These are statistical correlations drawn from large population data. If I tell you that men over 6'5" tall are wildly overrepresented in the NBA and you shout out "BUT WHAT ABOUT MUGSY BOGUES MAN!" then you're committing the same error many people do with IQ. Remember, IQ predictions can only be drawn with 100% accuracy across populations. Individually we can make only rough predictions based on IQ. Outliers and exceptions always exist in both directions (i.e. the 90 IQ millionaire and the 140 IQ virgin drug addict living in his mother's basement).
 

Gorgiass

Kingfisher
Gold Member
SamuelBRoberts said:
"I think the biggest difference is going to be between 100 and 120. 130 and 150 probably aren't that different in terms of life success."
^-

I think in a lot of cases, 130 is going to be more successful than 150. After a certain point you find it really hard to relate to other people. Trump is probably 130 or so, for instance.

That's just me talking out of my ass, though. I don't have any data to back it up.

That's the gist of the "Outliers" chapters Suits referred to earlier. They are worth reading. Clif notes - http://www.litcharts.com/lit/outliers/chapter-3-the-trouble-with-geniuses-part-1

Relatedly, my mother (of course) forwarded me an article the other day making the case that male children get a majority portion of their IQ from their mothers chromosome. The internet leans toward agreeing with her, for what that's worth. Something to consider, or not, depending on your take on the issue.
 

Brodiaga

Ostrich
Gold Member
scrambled said:
IQ is the most important factor in predicting "success", i.e. behavior in life. The Bell Curve book shows the data which overwhelmingly supports this; (if you have not already observed this in life).

I would recommend this book to everybody who is interested in this subject.

The Bell Curve clearly demonstrates how IQ is strongly correlated with being successful at any job, particularly a professional one. It is the most important factor when it comes to being successful at work. The authors focus on work as opposed to running own business because more data is available regarding paid employment.

The problem with this book, in addition to SJWs shitting bricks and calling it rayciss since the 90s, is that it requires at least basic knowledge of statistics to understand. Unfortunately, statistics is a very dry and difficult subject. Even to learn the basics, one needs a certain level of intelligence, concentration and work ethic. As Nassim Taleb mentioned in one of his books (I am paraphrasing here), statistical concepts can't be reduced to sound bites or an MBA-style executive summary.

I would say that IQ is definitely the most important "input parameter" when it comes to success in life if you measure success by the amount of money you make. Of course, there are losers among MENSA members, but the percentage of losers among the intelligent is much lower than among the stupid. The higher the IQ the higher the chance of becoming successful.

Another red pill truth about IQ, which is also described in The Bell Curve, is that it doesn't change much over one's lifetime. Of course, basic conditions, such as proper nutrition and access to education, have to be met in order for the brain to fully develop. Other than that, IQ is mostly determined by genes. The authors of The Bell Curve conservatively estimate that 60% of IQ is hereditary. By conservatively, I mean that the real percentage is likely to be even higher.
 

Fortis

Crow
Gold Member
Thanks for coming in and dropping a coherent post on IQ, Scorpion. Dudes need to stop taking this shit so personally. If guys on this forum are smart enough to be wondering about IQ I'm not really worried that this forum. Play on, playas.
 

Brodiaga

Ostrich
Gold Member
scorpion said:
Conversely, there's no shortage of people with 130+ IQs who are total failures, who never took advantage of their intelligence (and who are smart enough to recognize and lament this fact, and become extremely embittered as a result).

One of the most annoying and unlikable types is the misunderstood genius.

I remember reading an article by some douchebag who bragged about his super high IQ and complained about being a loser pretty much in the same sentence. I can't find the article, but his whining was along the lines of "do you know how hard it is to be surrounded by people who are much stupider than you"?

My reaction was like, ok asshole, you claim to be super smart, but what do you have to show for it? Have you found the cure for cancer? Have you made millions? Have you written great books or music that will last for centuries? If not, you are just an annoying loser, a waste of good luck. Same as lottery winners who waste their money and go broke instead of investing it and making it last for generations.
 

anthony

Pelican
^I agree with this guy

quote-Stephen-Hawking-people-who-boast-about-their-iq-are-124571.png
 

AboveAverageJoe

 
Banned
The question should be: Will a high IQ quarantee you money, pussy, and happiness?
You don't need an IQ over a hundred to tell you no.
Many other factors play a larger, combined effect.
Drops Mic.
 

Zep

Pelican
Other Christian
Brodiaga said:
One of the most annoying and unlikable types is the misunderstood genius.

I remember reading an article by some douchebag who bragged about his super high IQ and complained about being a loser pretty much in the same sentence. I can't find the article, but his whining was along the lines of "do you know how hard it is to be surrounded by people who are much stupider than you"?

Was it Chris Langan by any chance?
 

Brodiaga

Ostrich
Gold Member
Zep said:
Brodiaga said:
One of the most annoying and unlikable types is the misunderstood genius.

I remember reading an article by some douchebag who bragged about his super high IQ and complained about being a loser pretty much in the same sentence. I can't find the article, but his whining was along the lines of "do you know how hard it is to be surrounded by people who are much stupider than you"?

Was it Chris Langan by any chance?

I googled his name and didn't find the article I was referring to. I think that guy was less intelligent, probably scored around 150+ on standardized IQ tests and thought the world owed him everything because of that.
 
scorpion said:
The main thing to keep in mind is this: the metric of IQ is useless as an absolutely accurate predictive tool when applied individually, but is statistically proven as an absolutely accurate predictive tool when applied to large populations.

I mostly agreed with your post, but I don't agree with this statement (entirely). IQ tests are actually very useful even at the individual level. It's the reason why colleges and the military use them for decisions regarding admissions/personnel.
 
Brodiaga said:
Zep said:
Brodiaga said:
One of the most annoying and unlikable types is the misunderstood genius.

I remember reading an article by some douchebag who bragged about his super high IQ and complained about being a loser pretty much in the same sentence. I can't find the article, but his whining was along the lines of "do you know how hard it is to be surrounded by people who are much stupider than you"?

Was it Chris Langan by any chance?

I googled his name and didn't find the article I was referring to. I think that guy was less intelligent, probably scored around 150+ on standardized IQ tests and thought the world owed him everything because of that.

I think you're speaking of Rick Rosner. Yep, he was a loser.
 
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