Is Islam red pill?

[JDresden]

Mikado, I appreciate your love for your religion bro, I really do. I was just busting some balls (especially that other fool).

Let's be real, no you weren't. You were completely serious and then you got called out on it. I embarrassed you by calling your feminine behavior out for what it was and now your backtracking.

@ JDresden - There was a big outbreak of swineflu in Mecca, is that considered haram? (serious question)

No.

Lol yeah. Though I believe he is right, this is not really an argument in this discussion.

I don't see how. soup asserted that Islam is false and I asserted that it is true.

Maybe hwuzhere can help me out. Why is it that when soup asserted one thing and I asserted another my assertion was "polarizing"?

 

[Bill]

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm

"Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths."

This was in response to several attacks from Meccans, who broke the treaties they signed with Muslims.

Read this

I will use the same strategy as you , and provide my link too.

That´s not what´s in the text. Your thinking what context it may have is irrelevant as nobody can know what the intention of a not existing entity might have been.

 

[mikado]

Mikado, I appreciate your love for your religion bro, I really do. I was just busting some balls (especially that other fool).

Let's be real, no you weren't. You were completely serious and then you got called out on it. I embarrassed you by calling your feminine behavior out for what it was and now your backtracking.

@ JDresden - There was a big outbreak of swineflu in Mecca, is that considered haram? (serious question)

No.

Lol yeah. Though I believe he is right, this is not really an argument in this discussion.

I don't see how. soup asserted that Islam is false and I asserted that it is true.

Maybe hwuzhere can help me out. Why is it that when soup asserted one thing and I asserted another my assertion was "polarizing"?

My point of view is that, as the majority of this forum is non-Muslim, and American, there are going to be a lot of " Islam is bad", "Islam encourages suiciding himself to get 72 virgins" etc
Instead of just going into " this is false, Islam is a revelation" which will convince no one since there is no argument, I think the best thing to do is use constructive arguments and call people out on their false affirmations.
I know We will probably convert no one, but even if one person here has some of his (false) beliefs about Islam debunked, and understands better the religion, then my mission is done.

 

[Comte De St. Germain]

Mikado, I appreciate your love for your religion bro, I really do. I was just busting some balls (especially that other fool).

Let's be real, no you weren't. You were completely serious and then you got called out on it. I embarrassed you by calling your feminine behavior out for what it was and now your backtracking.

@ JDresden - There was a big outbreak of swineflu in Mecca, is that considered haram? (serious question)

No.

Lol yeah. Though I believe he is right, this is not really an argument in this discussion.

I don't see how. soup asserted that Islam is false and I asserted that it is true.

Maybe hwuzhere can help me out. Why is it that when soup asserted one thing and I asserted another my assertion was "polarizing"?

Any discussion of this sort is polarizing. Unless you look at things objectively and ignore the varying interpretations(note look at TurkishCandy's post about sexual repression, Vicious' first post about the Ottomans, or Quintus' post about the appeal it has) then that personally I think is not polarizing. The majority of this thread is polarized because each side is speaking one interpretation of beliefs, and not ignoring them for a second and looking at the after effect. Frankly, I believe that arguing the belief system like amateur religious scholars is fruitless and creating polarization. Instead if is much better to bring up the effects today with as little reference to the religion's beliefs as possible. We should be talking cultural and social effects not beliefs like theologians.

 

[mikado]

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm

"Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths."

This was in response to several attacks from Meccans, who broke the treaties they signed with Muslims.

Read this

I will use the same strategy as you , and provide my link too.

That´s not what´s in the text. Your thinking what context it may have is irrelevant as nobody can know what the intention of a not existing entity might have been.

This IS what is in the text. The exact same verses you provided.
Your second sentence is biased, you are exactly using the same thing as I do: interpretate the verses according to your point of view. If nobody knows, then how can you make such bold claims that Islam advocates violence just on the sole basis of religion?
Basically, a case of "Do what I say, not what I do"

 

[007]

Yes, I was 100% serious about busting balls. Listen, if I am honest, I would say that I dislike 80% of what I see in the muslim / islamic world. As a cultural entity / group, I find muslims to be trouble makers, backward and quite parasitic toward the countries that they emigrate to.

Mikado, I appreciate your love for your religion bro, I really do. I was just busting some balls (especially that other fool).

Let's be real, no you weren't. You were completely serious and then you got called out on it. I embarrassed you by calling your feminine behavior out for what it was and now your backtracking.

@ JDresden - There was a big outbreak of swineflu in Mecca, is that considered haram? (serious question)

No.

Lol yeah. Though I believe he is right, this is not really an argument in this discussion.

I don't see how. soup asserted that Islam is false and I asserted that it is true.

Maybe hwuzhere can help me out. Why is it that when soup asserted one thing and I asserted another my assertion was "polarizing"?

 

[mikado]

Yes, I was 100% serious about busting balls. Listen, if I am honest, I would say that I dislike 80% of what I see in the muslim / islamic world. As a cultural entity / group, I find muslims to be trouble makers, backward and quite parasitic toward the countries that they emigrate to.

Mikado, I appreciate your love for your religion bro, I really do. I was just busting some balls (especially that other fool).

Let's be real, no you weren't. You were completely serious and then you got called out on it. I embarrassed you by calling your feminine behavior out for what it was and now your backtracking.

@ JDresden - There was a big outbreak of swineflu in Mecca, is that considered haram? (serious question)

No.

Lol yeah. Though I believe he is right, this is not really an argument in this discussion.

I don't see how. soup asserted that Islam is false and I asserted that it is true.

Maybe hwuzhere can help me out. Why is it that when soup asserted one thing and I asserted another my assertion was "polarizing"?

First of all, sorry to "hijack" the thread. It's just that muslims are a minority here, and as such, I think it is due from me to answer, to get different sides of the story.

Now 007 I will ask you: what kind of Muslims have you met? What did you witness with your own eyes from people calling themselves muslim? Not on TV, but IRL.
I think it would help us a lot in debunking some beliefs here, and distinguish the typical "muslim stuff" from the "cultural stuff".

 

[Bill]

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm

"Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths."

This was in response to several attacks from Meccans, who broke the treaties they signed with Muslims.

Read this

I will use the same strategy as you , and provide my link too.

That´s not what´s in the text. Your thinking what context it may have is irrelevant as nobody can know what the intention of a not existing entity might have been.

This IS what is in the text. The exact same verses you provided.
Your second sentence is biased, you are exactly using the same thing as I do: interpretate the verses according to your point of view. If nobody knows, then how can you make such bold claims that Islam advocates violence just on the sole basis of religion?
Basically, a case of "Do what I say, not what I do"

In the text there is no talk about the Meccans.

 

[Comte De St. Germain]

Yes, I was 100% serious about busting balls. Listen, if I am honest, I would say that I dislike 80% of what I see in the muslim / islamic world. As a cultural entity / group, I find muslims to be trouble makers, backward and quite parasitic toward the countries that they emigrate to.

Mikado, I appreciate your love for your religion bro, I really do. I was just busting some balls (especially that other fool).

Let's be real, no you weren't. You were completely serious and then you got called out on it. I embarrassed you by calling your feminine behavior out for what it was and now your backtracking.

@ JDresden - There was a big outbreak of swineflu in Mecca, is that considered haram? (serious question)

No.

Lol yeah. Though I believe he is right, this is not really an argument in this discussion.

I don't see how. soup asserted that Islam is false and I asserted that it is true.

Maybe hwuzhere can help me out. Why is it that when soup asserted one thing and I asserted another my assertion was "polarizing"?

Gotta agree with you there. I despise the culture especially being born into it. Culturally they are racist, bigoted, parasitic, and backwards. I love the religion(about 70%), philosophy/philosophers, calligraphy, hospitality towards guests, and parts of the familial setup, but in the end the mainstream Arab world is terrible in this era(Pakistan, India, Saudi Arabia/majority of the Arabian peninsula(besides the UAE because I love Dubai), and parts of Northern Africa are the main example. Some countries like Morocco and Turkey are worthwhile places though and aforementioned UAE. I hate the Turkish government and most of the male populace though(being half Turkish gives you experience into how much more beta they are than even American men).

 

[mikado]

Yeah, and?

Though the Kuran is directed towards people from the 7th century to the end of humanity, some verses were revealed in a specific context.
You cannot distinguish the context from the actual words in the Kuran. Some verses were even abrogated when they were no longer relevant to the context of that era.

 

[L M McCoy]

Yes, I was 100% serious about busting balls. Listen, if I am honest, I would say that I dislike 80% of what I see in the muslim / islamic world. As a cultural entity / group, I find muslims to be trouble makers, backward and quite parasitic toward the countries that they emigrate to.

Mikado, I appreciate your love for your religion bro, I really do. I was just busting some balls (especially that other fool).

Let's be real, no you weren't. You were completely serious and then you got called out on it. I embarrassed you by calling your feminine behavior out for what it was and now your backtracking.

@ JDresden - There was a big outbreak of swineflu in Mecca, is that considered haram? (serious question)

No.

Lol yeah. Though I believe he is right, this is not really an argument in this discussion.

I don't see how. soup asserted that Islam is false and I asserted that it is true.

Maybe hwuzhere can help me out. Why is it that when soup asserted one thing and I asserted another my assertion was "polarizing"?

Gotta agree with you there. I despise the culture especially being born into it. Culturally they are racist, bigoted, parasitic, and backwards. I love the religion(about 70%), philosophy/philosophers, calligraphy, hospitality towards guests, and parts of the familial setup, but in the end the mainstream Arab world is terrible in this era(Pakistan, India, Saudi Arabia/majority of the Arabian peninsula(besides the UAE because I love Dubai), and parts of Northern Africa are the main example. Some countries like Morocco and Turkey are worthwhile places though and aforementioned UAE. I hate the Turkish government and most of the male populace though(being half Turkish gives you experience into how much more beta they are than even American men).

Are Arabs really that bad? I have yet to meet another Arab so I wouldn't know haha. I'm so culturally removed its ridiculous.

 

[tylerdurden1993]

One thing I don't understand about Islam is the whole 4 wives thing.

First of all its statistically impossible for this to happen as for every 1 female born there are usually 1.05 men born.

So how do you actually get more than one wife, say you have a wife. But you want another one do you go through your family or do you have to meet them and their family in person i.e. at a mosque. Do you have to be able to prove you can financially support another wife etc. So to stop guys taking on more than they can handle so to speak.

Or is it a case where only the some men get 4 wives but if this is the case what happens to the guys at the bottom of the food chain do they not get a wife, as if this is the case you're going to have a lot of angry young men wandering around which isn't good for society. An example being the "lost boys" in polygamous Mormon communities

With the obvious demographics above what happens if you or your family can't find a wife for you as said above do you just have to wait for one , do you have to work harder to prove to the community you deserve a wife. Its not like there's a free for all like in western countries.

Finally is this whole 4 wives thing bullshit whereas the only guys that get 4 wives are the super alphas so it doesn't affect the numbers so much. i.e. basically every normal guy gets a wife.

 

[Bill]

Yeah, and?

Though the Kuran is directed towards people from the 7th century to the end of humanity, some verses were revealed in a specific context.
You cannot distinguish the context from the actual words in the Kuran. Some verses were even abrogated when they were no longer relevant to the context of that era.

Yeah some verses can mean something or exactly the opposite. Not very divine imho. To believe in an entity which doesn´t reveal himself but wants people to believe that it exists is beyond reason in itself. Case closed.

I rather believe in the Spaghetti Monster.

I think islam is red pill in the matter of women. It´s no wonder as it´s the biggest problem for men. I am living in Turkey, I think most men here and in the muslim world do only use religion to have women in check.

 

[Comte De St. Germain]

Yes, I was 100% serious about busting balls. Listen, if I am honest, I would say that I dislike 80% of what I see in the muslim / islamic world. As a cultural entity / group, I find muslims to be trouble makers, backward and quite parasitic toward the countries that they emigrate to.

Mikado, I appreciate your love for your religion bro, I really do. I was just busting some balls (especially that other fool).

Let's be real, no you weren't. You were completely serious and then you got called out on it. I embarrassed you by calling your feminine behavior out for what it was and now your backtracking.

@ JDresden - There was a big outbreak of swineflu in Mecca, is that considered haram? (serious question)

No.

Lol yeah. Though I believe he is right, this is not really an argument in this discussion.

I don't see how. soup asserted that Islam is false and I asserted that it is true.

Maybe hwuzhere can help me out. Why is it that when soup asserted one thing and I asserted another my assertion was "polarizing"?

Gotta agree with you there. I despise the culture especially being born into it. Culturally they are racist, bigoted, parasitic, and backwards. I love the religion(about 70%), philosophy/philosophers, calligraphy, hospitality towards guests, and parts of the familial setup, but in the end the mainstream Arab world is terrible in this era(Pakistan, India, Saudi Arabia/majority of the Arabian peninsula(besides the UAE because I love Dubai), and parts of Northern Africa are the main example. Some countries like Morocco and Turkey are worthwhile places though and aforementioned UAE. I hate the Turkish government and most of the male populace though(being half Turkish gives you experience into how much more beta they are than even American men).

Are Arabs really that bad? I have yet to meet another Arab so I wouldn't know haha. I'm so culturally removed its ridiculous.

Speaking from experience from my second generation Arab and Pakistani friends, most of them joke about it all the time. Arabs are closet racists like Japanese nationalists. They won't say it to your face but around family and Arab friends they tend to be like that. I've seen it multiple times as I pass off as Arab (even though I look Slavic with my brown hair/eyes with angled features) at their homes, and they have brought those kind of things up subconsciously. My parents have even taken a bit from them. They aren't racist in the outright hate, violence, or prejudice but are very bigoted and superior minded. They're biased towards others but will treat them equally. I call it dinner racism. Around dinner with family/family friends they'll be bigoted, but professionally never and will be extremely polite. The only time it's open it is if you're in Mecca and don't speak Arabic. They'll go off on you then. Going into an Arab country not speaking Arabic will get you lots of open verbal hate. They'll serve you fine though as they are natural merchants and want your money/a big fat tip.
Edit: didn't mean Arab for Pakistan and India but they have adopted a less severe mindset than Arabs in terms of bigotry(though they can be bigoted).

 

[007]

@ hwuzhere - Very good quote bro, I agree with the negatives, but also the positives (arts, calligraphy, hospitality). I think that what you have said is a very realistic and balanced view of the muslim world.

@ mikado - my dealings / experiences with Pakistanis, Bangaldeshi and Afghan, Balkan and Somali muslims have been 95% negative.

Although, I must say that my experiences with Iranians have been overwhelmingly positive. They seem like a more culturally refined breed of muslims to me, the Persians have always been more sophisticated. On a sidenote, a Persian family have just moved in on my floor. Plenty of IOI's from the fine mum and daughter, project ayatolah is underway.

@ Jdresden - do I have your blessings to randsack that Persian pussy? If that is halal then cool, otherwise please feel free to 'acid attack me for the haram gesture.

Yes, I was 100% serious about busting balls. Listen, if I am honest, I would say that I dislike 80% of what I see in the muslim / islamic world. As a cultural entity / group, I find muslims to be trouble makers, backward and quite parasitic toward the countries that they emigrate to.

Mikado, I appreciate your love for your religion bro, I really do. I was just busting some balls (especially that other fool).

Let's be real, no you weren't. You were completely serious and then you got called out on it. I embarrassed you by calling your feminine behavior out for what it was and now your backtracking.

@ JDresden - There was a big outbreak of swineflu in Mecca, is that considered haram? (serious question)

No.

Lol yeah. Though I believe he is right, this is not really an argument in this discussion.

I don't see how. soup asserted that Islam is false and I asserted that it is true.

Maybe hwuzhere can help me out. Why is it that when soup asserted one thing and I asserted another my assertion was "polarizing"?

Gotta agree with you there. I despise the culture especially being born into it. Culturally they are racist, bigoted, parasitic, and backwards. I love the religion(about 70%), philosophy/philosophers, calligraphy, hospitality towards guests, and parts of the familial setup, but in the end the mainstream Arab world is terrible in this era(Pakistan, India, Saudi Arabia/majority of the Arabian peninsula(besides the UAE because I love Dubai), and parts of Northern Africa are the main example. Some countries like Morocco and Turkey are worthwhile places though and aforementioned UAE. I hate the Turkish government and most of the male populace though(being half Turkish gives you experience into how much more beta they are than even American men).

 

[Bill]

One thing I don't understand about Islam is the whole 4 wives thing.

First of all its statistically impossible for this to happen as for every 1 female born there are usually 1.05 men born.

So how do you actually get more than one wife, say you have a wife. But you want another one do you go through your family or do you have to meet them and their family in person i.e. at a mosque. Do you have to be able to prove you can financially support another wife etc. So to stop guys taking on more than they can handle so to speak.

Or is it a case where only the some men get 4 wives but if this is the case what happens to the guys at the bottom of the food chain do they not get a wife, as if this is the case you're going to have a lot of angry young men wandering around which isn't good for society. An example being the "lost boys" in polygamous Mormon communities

With the obvious demographics above what happens if you or your family can't find a wife for you as said above do you just have to wait for one , do you have to work harder to prove to the community you deserve a wife. Its not like there's a free for all like in western countries.

Finally is this whole 4 wives thing bullshit whereas the only guys that get 4 wives are the super alphas so it doesn't affect the numbers so much. i.e. basically every normal guy gets a wife.

In history there were always wars and then to many women were left so there had to be a proper solution. Alpha men would always get more women with or without islam as they are mighty enough.

In history everywhere beta men had difficulties to find a women. This is still the case in the modern world. Look at Japan with the herbivore men who have difficulties to get a girl and capitulate.

But in general you are right it´s simply outdated. In the modern world we use mistress and prostitutes and sluts. This is more efficient without the religious vodoo.

 

[bojangles]

Islam was great at a certain time - the islamic golden age and provided the world with many inventions and stable countries, now it's hundreds of different sects who believe what they want to believe when it comes to being a muslim. Not so good these days.

 

[JDresden]

Any discussion of this sort is polarizing. Unless you look at things objectively and ignore the varying interpretations(note look at TurkishCandy's post about sexual repression, Vicious' first post about the Ottomans, or Quintus' post about the appeal it has) then that personally I think is not polarizing. The majority of this thread is polarized because each side is speaking one interpretation of beliefs, and not ignoring them for a second and looking at the after effect. Frankly, I believe that arguing the belief system like amateur religious scholars is fruitless and creating polarization. Instead if is much better to bring up the effects today with as little reference to the religion's beliefs as possible. We should be talking cultural and social effects not beliefs like theologians.

Right. The reason I'm asking is because of the rep you gave mikado.

http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-35063-post-701602.html#pid701602 took the words out of my mouth. Polarized the discussion, but he is looking at it objectively. +1 for depth of knowledge.

According to the rep it only became polarizing when I responded to soup. When I made a possitive affirmation to counter his negative affirmation. So when you talk about looking at things objectively I wonder what you actually mean because it seemed you didn't. I bring this up because I loathe hypocrisy. Do you understand how I drew conclusion that I did?

Now, if all you did was misspeak that's not a problem. You'll admit your mistake and we'll move on. Or were you just "busting balls" like 007?

 

[JDresden]

Yes, I was 100% serious about busting balls. Listen, if I am honest, I would say that I dislike 80% of what I see in the muslim / islamic world. As a cultural entity / group, I find muslims to be trouble makers, backward and quite parasitic toward the countries that they emigrate to.

So, just to be clear, it's at THIS point that I'm supposed to take you seriously? Very well. I don't care about the thoughts that swirl around in your skull. I care about truth and facts. When you ejaculate lies about my religion I am going to respond to it. I don't care if you hate Islam, but atleast have the decency to speak truthfully about it.

Enjoy your day.

 

[Comte De St. Germain]

I was saying that if he was speaking about the belief system he was well informed on the topic. I repped him for bring knowledgable on the subject. I just thought he polarized it by referring to the belief system instead of after effects. I didn't persay agree with his argument but just for the level of knowledge he showed on the subject. So yes I did misspeak if you put it that way.