Is Islam red pill?

[soup]

Religion is about power, control, and manipulation. That is game.

Understandin how women truly are an are print them for that and not putting them in a pedestal is redpill and it's game.

There's a difference between vonservative and redpill.

You cannot separate redpill and game. If you try to do that you end up with something like the MRA movement.

 

[007]

 

[Crackshot]

If not Islam then what social movement could change the West?

We need something as humans that gives our lives meaning and socialism liberalism, etc fails to do that

Alternatives maybe are Buddhism or maybe a conversionary form of Judaism as westerners are familiar with the OT.

The Jews used to be big on converting non-Jews in Roman times and Middle Ages so maybe that would fit in better with conservative westerners.

Sounds impossible to imagine now but the future is hard to know.

 

[soup]

Yes, maybe things were more natural in the past. Humans do not need to be deluded to be happy though. They do not need child-level comfort items like the old/new testament god.

Most men cannot live without a clearly delineated reason to exist.

Give man a reason to exist and a system of values and you give him the world.

I do not believe in God or Jesus, but I know for a fact that would not be alive to day if it was not for Christianity.

I can only hope that as I grow older that in my personal life, I can begin to find strength in the Christian values that brought me to the world.

You can have all of that without god.

 

[Samseau]

Is Islam Red Pill? Sometimes it was, sometimes it wasn't. Just like all major civilizations, there were times when the men ruled and times when the women ruled.

Unsurprisingly, when the women ruled Islamic empires fell apart. There is a period of history in the Ottoman Empire, for example, called the Sultantate of Women, when the King's harem ruled the country since the Kings were all young children so the mothers controlled the Empire through their sons. This was also a period of serious decline.

And of course, most of the harem women were white Christian women who were captured and enslaved, so the irony is that although Muslim men brought down much of the Christian world, it was our bitchy Christen women that brought down the Islamic world. These guys wanted white wives and they got 'em. "Be careful what you wish for." Can't make this stuff up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultanate_of_Women

 

[Samseau]

One thing I don't understand about Islam is the whole 4 wives thing.

First of all its statistically impossible for this to happen as for every 1 female born there are usually 1.05 men born.

So how do you actually get more than one wife, say you have a wife. But you want another one do you go through your family or do you have to meet them and their family in person i.e. at a mosque. Do you have to be able to prove you can financially support another wife etc. So to stop guys taking on more than they can handle so to speak.

Or is it a case where only the some men get 4 wives but if this is the case what happens to the guys at the bottom of the food chain do they not get a wife, as if this is the case you're going to have a lot of angry young men wandering around which isn't good for society. An example being the "lost boys" in polygamous Mormon communities

With the obvious demographics above what happens if you or your family can't find a wife for you as said above do you just have to wait for one , do you have to work harder to prove to the community you deserve a wife. Its not like there's a free for all like in western countries.

Finally is this whole 4 wives thing bullshit whereas the only guys that get 4 wives are the super alphas so it doesn't affect the numbers so much. i.e. basically every normal guy gets a wife.

The answer to this question is easy. Islam was a slave empire based on conquest, much like the old Roman empire was.

Islam would conquor Christian lands and execute the men and take the women as sex slaves. They would convert them into Muslims and make them into wives.

Once the Muslims had no more easy low-hanging fruit Christian lands to conqouor, they turned to raiding Africa for it's women and took them as sex slaves and then converted and wed them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade

Islam took ten times as many slaves from Africa than the early American settlers did. Millions and millions.

During the 8th and 9th centuries of the Fatimid Caliphate, most of the slaves were Europeans (called Saqaliba) captured along European coasts and during wars.[2] Historians estimate that between 650 and 1900, 10 to 18 million people were enslaved by Arab slave traders and taken from Europe, Asia and Africa across the Red Sea, Indian Ocean, and Sahara desert.[3] However, slaves were drawn from a wide variety of regions and included Mediterranean peoples, Persians, peoples from the Caucasus mountain regions (such as Georgia, Armenia and Circassia) and parts of Central Asia and Scandinavia, English, Dutch and Irish, Berbers from North Africa, and various other peoples of varied origins as well as those of African origins.

I love it when people say Islam is a religion of peace, because you automatically know that person is ignorant of history.

 

[Sherman]

Is Islam Red Pill? Sometimes it was, sometimes it wasn't. Just like all major civilizations, there were times when the men ruled and times when the women ruled.

Unsurprisingly, when the women ruled Islamic empires fell apart. There is a period of history in the Ottoman Empire, for example, called the Sultantate of Women, when the King's harem ruled the country since the Kings were all young children so the mothers controlled the Empire through their sons. This was also a period of serious decline.

And of course, most of the harem women were white Christian women who were captured and enslaved, so the irony is that although Muslim men brought down much of the Christian world, it was our bitchy Christen women that brought down the Islamic world. These guys wanted white wives and they got 'em. "Be careful what you wish for." Can't make this stuff up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultanate_of_Women

Didn't the Ottoman Sultans sale across the pond and kidnap hot Ukrainian girls for their Harems? We don't have anyone here who would do that.

http://www.business-with-turkey.com/tourist-guide/roxelana_harem_sultan.shtml

 

[turkishcandy]

Islam is red pill as a concept. Mohammed was a badass red pill dude who designed a religion of his own so that it would be patriarchal, fruitful and aggressive. He needed a powerful ideology to boost his conquests and he was very successful in using it.

But this does not mean that individual Muslims are red pill. Vast majority of people are always simpletons. The vast majority does not understand the reasons why they are told by their religion to do what they are told. They just believe that Quran is the will of God and that's it.

Exactly. Let's seperate the ideology from the simpletons who follow it. Mohammed was a simple tradesman before Islam, an orphan, but also a brilliant one. You can tell his genius by the fact that the book Quran wasn't 'sent' as a whole, it was sent page by page during the course of 23 years. During which time Mohammed observed people's reactions, the society, the dynamics and 'received' the pages accordingly. When he faced a problem he needed to solve, there simply was a solution in the next page he received that brought a rule which either forbidded people doing something or allowed him to do something without being judged. I don't wanna go into too much detail because there are some believers among us, but I'm telling you guys, I took Islamic history lecture and the guy is a freaking genius, also the ultimate redpill man. He didn't suffer like Jesus. He died as the king of a huge region in Arabia, millions of people idolizing him. And he took a lot of credit for 'saving' people.

 

[Bill]

Islam is red pill as a concept. Mohammed was a badass red pill dude who designed a religion of his own so that it would be patriarchal, fruitful and aggressive. He needed a powerful ideology to boost his conquests and he was very successful in using it.

But this does not mean that individual Muslims are red pill. Vast majority of people are always simpletons. The vast majority does not understand the reasons why they are told by their religion to do what they are told. They just believe that Quran is the will of God and that's it.

Exactly. Let's seperate the ideology from the simpletons who follow it. Mohammed was a simple tradesman before Islam, an orphan, but also a brilliant one. You can tell his genius by the fact that the book Quran wasn't 'sent' as a whole, it was sent page by page during the course of 23 years. During which time Mohammed observed people's reactions, the society, the dynamics and 'received' the pages accordingly. When he faced a problem he needed to solve, there simply was a solution in the next page he received that brought a rule which either forbidded people doing something or allowed him to do something without being judged. I don't wanna go into too much detail because there are some believers among us, but I'm telling you guys, I took Islamic history lecture and the guy is a freaking genius, also the ultimate redpill man. He didn't suffer like Jesus. He died as the king of a huge region in Arabia, millions of people idolizing him. And he took a lot of credit for 'saving' people.

He wasn´t a genius. You don´t need to much to convince some backwards arabs. His whole invention was to steal stuff from the jews. Guy married one of the richest women so he had a status to change society. And it did not hurt that he could have a harem in the process.

Probably jews made fun of the arab folks as they did not have a proper religion and the jews would not accept newcomers so the solution is to steal the content and that´s it.

Though one thing amazed me. The form of the prayer was quite different from that of the jews. I thought if Mohammed did invent this stuff then it was awesome.

But it came out that he also stole the form of the prayer from older religions like with many diffent rituals.

Guy is a copycat. The question is why didn´t he just take christianity. Probably it was to much of a slave religion and it does not suit folks who themselfs keep slaves. So it was a to weak religion.

 

[Bill]

Is Islam Red Pill? Sometimes it was, sometimes it wasn't. Just like all major civilizations, there were times when the men ruled and times when the women ruled.

Unsurprisingly, when the women ruled Islamic empires fell apart. There is a period of history in the Ottoman Empire, for example, called the Sultantate of Women, when the King's harem ruled the country since the Kings were all young children so the mothers controlled the Empire through their sons. This was also a period of serious decline.

And of course, most of the harem women were white Christian women who were captured and enslaved, so the irony is that although Muslim men brought down much of the Christian world, it was our bitchy Christen women that brought down the Islamic world. These guys wanted white wives and they got 'em. "Be careful what you wish for." Can't make this stuff up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultanate_of_Women

Don´t know may be it was the opposite. At least under them the osmans did make it twice to Vienna. I don´t think that without the christian women the osmans would do better. Think of the emperor of Konstantinopel in 1453 his mother was also Christian and that did not hurt. The Osmans hated their backwards folksthey wanted to create a new rom as they knew the turks alone have no cultural basis to build something great.

 

[Earth]

:angel:

 

[Samseau]

Is Islam Red Pill? Sometimes it was, sometimes it wasn't. Just like all major civilizations, there were times when the men ruled and times when the women ruled.

Unsurprisingly, when the women ruled Islamic empires fell apart. There is a period of history in the Ottoman Empire, for example, called the Sultantate of Women, when the King's harem ruled the country since the Kings were all young children so the mothers controlled the Empire through their sons. This was also a period of serious decline.

And of course, most of the harem women were white Christian women who were captured and enslaved, so the irony is that although Muslim men brought down much of the Christian world, it was our bitchy Christen women that brought down the Islamic world. These guys wanted white wives and they got 'em. "Be careful what you wish for." Can't make this stuff up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultanate_of_Women

Don´t know may be it was the opposite. At least under them the osmans did make it twice to Vienna. I don´t think that without the christian women the osmans would do better. Think of the emperor of Konstantinopel in 1453 his mother was also Christian and that did not hurt. The Osmans hated their backwards folksthey wanted to create a new rom as they knew the turks alone have no cultural basis to build something great.

Although it is true they made it to Vienna, they were crushed utterly. Do you think having women rule the country helped them? I'm 95% certain that if I were to read through the record of Ottomans, I would find out how the harem women sabotaged the nation through intrigue. When a culture becomes corrupted and ruled by women, it pretty much always dies.

The men were still ruling in 1453. And yes I know how the Ottomans tried to make themselves whiter. Janissaries, capturing Christian women, etc. etc.

 

[kosko]

One thing I don't understand about Islam is the whole 4 wives thing.

First of all its statistically impossible for this to happen as for every 1 female born there are usually 1.05 men born.

So how do you actually get more than one wife, say you have a wife. But you want another one do you go through your family or do you have to meet them and their family in person i.e. at a mosque. Do you have to be able to prove you can financially support another wife etc. So to stop guys taking on more than they can handle so to speak.

Or is it a case where only the some men get 4 wives but if this is the case what happens to the guys at the bottom of the food chain do they not get a wife, as if this is the case you're going to have a lot of angry young men wandering around which isn't good for society. An example being the "lost boys" in polygamous Mormon communities

With the obvious demographics above what happens if you or your family can't find a wife for you as said above do you just have to wait for one , do you have to work harder to prove to the community you deserve a wife. Its not like there's a free for all like in western countries.

Finally is this whole 4 wives thing bullshit whereas the only guys that get 4 wives are the super alphas so it doesn't affect the numbers so much. i.e. basically every normal guy gets a wife.

The answer to this question is easy. Islam was a slave empire based on conquest, much like the old Roman empire was.

Islam would conquor Christian lands and execute the men and take the women as sex slaves. They would convert them into Muslims and make them into wives.

Once the Muslims had no more easy low-hanging fruit Christian lands to conqouor, they turned to raiding Africa for it's women and took them as sex slaves and then converted and wed them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade

Islam took ten times as many slaves from Africa than the early American settlers did. Millions and millions.

During the 8th and 9th centuries of the Fatimid Caliphate, most of the slaves were Europeans (called Saqaliba) captured along European coasts and during wars.[2] Historians estimate that between 650 and 1900, 10 to 18 million people were enslaved by Arab slave traders and taken from Europe, Asia and Africa across the Red Sea, Indian Ocean, and Sahara desert.[3] However, slaves were drawn from a wide variety of regions and included Mediterranean peoples, Persians, peoples from the Caucasus mountain regions (such as Georgia, Armenia and Circassia) and parts of Central Asia and Scandinavia, English, Dutch and Irish, Berbers from North Africa, and various other peoples of varied origins as well as those of African origins.

I love it when people say Islam is a religion of peace, because you automatically know that person is ignorant of history.

This isn't wholly true. To much of RVF relies on blue pill history that is only presented through a Euro-centric lense. Prior history points to the fact that Africans introduced Islam to many Arabs after they took them on as slaves. This isn't PC but historically the Arabs were always radical as fuck. They were the last group to be civilized and this a strict and rigid system was imposed on them as it was the only way to get to chill out.

Arabs though were largely brought in as slaves to North Africa. The miles of distance and dry desert made traveling hard and useless. It was a gamble to think Greene lands existed elsewhere. Many lands today we view as "Arab lands" were largely populated by Horn of Africa Blacks whom were just next door. Suadi Arabia for the longest time was basically empty, the majority of the population on that Pensac

 

[bojangles]

Islam is red pill as a concept. Mohammed was a badass red pill dude who designed a religion of his own so that it would be patriarchal, fruitful and aggressive. He needed a powerful ideology to boost his conquests and he was very successful in using it.

But this does not mean that individual Muslims are red pill. Vast majority of people are always simpletons. The vast majority does not understand the reasons why they are told by their religion to do what they are told. They just believe that Quran is the will of God and that's it.

Exactly. Let's seperate the ideology from the simpletons who follow it. Mohammed was a simple tradesman before Islam, an orphan, but also a brilliant one. You can tell his genius by the fact that the book Quran wasn't 'sent' as a whole, it was sent page by page during the course of 23 years. During which time Mohammed observed people's reactions, the society, the dynamics and 'received' the pages accordingly. When he faced a problem he needed to solve, there simply was a solution in the next page he received that brought a rule which either forbidded people doing something or allowed him to do something without being judged. I don't wanna go into too much detail because there are some believers among us, but I'm telling you guys, I took Islamic history lecture and the guy is a freaking genius, also the ultimate redpill man. He didn't suffer like Jesus. He died as the king of a huge region in Arabia, millions of people idolizing him. And he took a lot of credit for 'saving' people.

He wasn´t a genius. You don´t need to much to convince some backwards arabs. His whole invention was to steal stuff from the jews. Guy married one of the richest women so he had a status to change society. And it did not hurt that he could have a harem in the process.

Probably jews made fun of the arab folks as they did not have a proper religion and the jews would not accept newcomers so the solution is to steal the content and that´s it.

Though one thing amazed me. The form of the prayer was quite different from that of the jews. I thought if Mohammed did invent this stuff then it was awesome.

But it came out that he also stole the form of the prayer from older religions like with many diffent rituals.

Guy is a copycat. The question is why didn´t he just take christianity. Probably it was to much of a slave religion and it does not suit folks who themselfs keep slaves. So it was a to weak religion.

It's believed in India that the religion in Arabia at the time was Hinduism hence the 'idols' and that the Kabba was a huge shiv ling, having been indoctrinated by Hindu naval traders from south india.

 

[Bill]

Is Islam Red Pill? Sometimes it was, sometimes it wasn't. Just like all major civilizations, there were times when the men ruled and times when the women ruled.

Unsurprisingly, when the women ruled Islamic empires fell apart. There is a period of history in the Ottoman Empire, for example, called the Sultantate of Women, when the King's harem ruled the country since the Kings were all young children so the mothers controlled the Empire through their sons. This was also a period of serious decline.

And of course, most of the harem women were white Christian women who were captured and enslaved, so the irony is that although Muslim men brought down much of the Christian world, it was our bitchy Christen women that brought down the Islamic world. These guys wanted white wives and they got 'em. "Be careful what you wish for." Can't make this stuff up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultanate_of_Women

Don´t know may be it was the opposite. At least under them the osmans did make it twice to Vienna. I don´t think that without the christian women the osmans would do better. Think of the emperor of Konstantinopel in 1453 his mother was also Christian and that did not hurt. The Osmans hated their backwards folksthey wanted to create a new rom as they knew the turks alone have no cultural basis to build something great.

Although it is true they made it to Vienna, they were crushed utterly. Do you think having women rule the country helped them? I'm 95% certain that if I were to read through the record of Ottomans, I would find out how the harem women sabotaged the nation through intrigue. When a culture becomes corrupted and ruled by women, it pretty much always dies.

The men were still ruling in 1453. And yes I know how the Ottomans tried to make themselves whiter. Janissaries, capturing Christian women, etc. etc.

http://web.archive.org/web/20110604...m/history/microsites/H/history/e-h/harem.html

Political tutors
It is not that royal women were not powerful in the Ottoman empire before or after the 'sultanate of women'. The famous Muslim world-traveller, Ibn Battuta, who visited the nascent Ottoman state in 1336, remarked that 'among the Turks and the Tatars their wives enjoy a very high position.'

From the time of the Ottoman dynasty's emergence in the 14th century, mothers of princes played a recognised role as political tutors and guardians of their sons – roles they would maintain throughout the dynasty's 600-year lifespan. In the 15th century, elder females – aunts, mothers and sisters of sultans

Grudging admiration
Women of the Ottoman royal harem were prominent in what was an age of royal women – Mary Queen of Scots, Mary and Elizabeth Tudor, Catherine de Médicis, as well as their counterparts in Safavid Persia and Mughal India. These women were not always loved for their power, and even admiration was often grudgingly given.

Among the Ottomans, there were numerous counterparts to John Knox, the Scottish clergyman who decried the 'monstrous regiment of women' in 1558. A 17th-century grand vizier, himself a slave of the sultan, complained about the 'passle of mentally deficient slave girls, daughters of Russian, Polish, Hungarian and Frankish infidels' whose influence caused him such political grief. The resistance these women provoked serves, of course, as in index to their political power.

Leslie Peirce is professor of history and Near Eastern studies at the University of California, Berkeley, and the author of The Imperial Harem: Women and sovereignty in the Ottoman empire and Morality Tales: Law and gender in the Ottoman court of Aintab. She is currently working on a popular book about the pre-modern Ottoman empire.

The thing is there were a lot of crazy and weak sultans in that time. That´s why it was beneficial to have strong women otherwise the Empire might have fallen apart. Notice after the 17th centurty the Empire became weak and was no threat anymore.

 

[Bill]

Islam is red pill as a concept. Mohammed was a badass red pill dude who designed a religion of his own so that it would be patriarchal, fruitful and aggressive. He needed a powerful ideology to boost his conquests and he was very successful in using it.

But this does not mean that individual Muslims are red pill. Vast majority of people are always simpletons. The vast majority does not understand the reasons why they are told by their religion to do what they are told. They just believe that Quran is the will of God and that's it.

Exactly. Let's seperate the ideology from the simpletons who follow it. Mohammed was a simple tradesman before Islam, an orphan, but also a brilliant one. You can tell his genius by the fact that the book Quran wasn't 'sent' as a whole, it was sent page by page during the course of 23 years. During which time Mohammed observed people's reactions, the society, the dynamics and 'received' the pages accordingly. When he faced a problem he needed to solve, there simply was a solution in the next page he received that brought a rule which either forbidded people doing something or allowed him to do something without being judged. I don't wanna go into too much detail because there are some believers among us, but I'm telling you guys, I took Islamic history lecture and the guy is a freaking genius, also the ultimate redpill man. He didn't suffer like Jesus. He died as the king of a huge region in Arabia, millions of people idolizing him. And he took a lot of credit for 'saving' people.

He wasn´t a genius. You don´t need to much to convince some backwards arabs. His whole invention was to steal stuff from the jews. Guy married one of the richest women so he had a status to change society. And it did not hurt that he could have a harem in the process.

Probably jews made fun of the arab folks as they did not have a proper religion and the jews would not accept newcomers so the solution is to steal the content and that´s it.

Though one thing amazed me. The form of the prayer was quite different from that of the jews. I thought if Mohammed did invent this stuff then it was awesome.

But it came out that he also stole the form of the prayer from older religions like with many diffent rituals.

Guy is a copycat. The question is why didn´t he just take christianity. Probably it was to much of a slave religion and it does not suit folks who themselfs keep slaves. So it was a to weak religion.

It's believed in India that the religion in Arabia at the time was Hinduism hence the 'idols' and that the Kabba was a huge shiv ling, having been indoctrinated by Hindu naval traders from south india.

Yes there can be some truth in it but I would never trust the Indians they make up so much crazy stuff it´s really difficult to believe. Though no doubt the Indians are the masters in creating gods.

One interesting thing with Kaba is that no Osman Emporer ever went to Mekka though it´s obligatory in islam. The reason is told that it was to much of a risk because the Empire might fall when the Sultan is on pilgrimage. On the other hand they might not been great believers.

 

[bojangles]

I'm trying to find it but I believe it was a white guy who said he thought it was the case!

 

[RockHard]

The problem with getting 72 virgins is that after you've taken their v-card, they demand that you wife them up. Then it's 72 bitches complaining about football on Sunday and wanting the trash taken out.

Sounds like Hell to me.

 

[spalex]

I'm going on holiday for the next 8 days so I won't be on the forum watching this thread explode. Which is a shame because I can go on all day about how Islam is probably the worst thing on this planet.

But if you PM me I can send you another 180 pictures like this from the Quran. Then another 300 from the Sunnah that will make you say "these cunts are fucked!" And will likely make you discriminate against anyone who believes in Islam.

 

[Bill]

The problem with getting 72 virgins is that after you've taken their v-card, they demand that you wife them up. Then it's 72 bitches complaining about football on Sunday and wanting the trash taken out.

Sounds like Hell to me.

Actually there is no consensus how the virgins will be. The important thing is all your (perverted) desires get served (hopefully). Trust in God.

It´s funny that no one knows what women will do sexually in paradies