Is it ethical and/or wise to lie to become vaccine compliant?

Lawrence87

Woodpecker
Orthodox
I have a coworker who had an exemption due for vaccination due to health reasons with her heart.
If people ask me if is I good idea to get vaccination I don't tell them cause I don't want to make health choices for them.
Pray about it and if you don't feel peace them don't get it.
I got the vaccination cause I hope to travel in the future again to see girlfriend who lives abroad.
I hope everyone is staying healthy during this time.

Odd position to hold. I mean if someone ask me if I think its a good idea to get the vaccine I will say 'absolutely not', that doesn't amount to making their choices for them, because the chances are they will ignore me. And if they don't ignore me, then so far as I am concerned I've done something good...

Forgive me for saying this but that is a poor reason for getting the vaccine. Are you going to get all the booster shots and such too, so you can eventually get your end away?
 

Magnus Stout

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Excellent comments and worthy discussion.

I think it is generally agreed here that this is a "mark." Incredibly, listen to this:

While there may be some disagreement upon whether she said "marked" or "more" (I think the former was a "slip" of the tongue) the coercion and passport system the White House has openly embraced is part of the evil "Build Back Better" agenda. Which is just another type of "mark."

A mark signifies allegiance. Whom do you serve? Thus, this question has both a physical and spiritual component. Remember: "no man can serve two masters..."

A more extreme example from the original post: Say the Antichrist is enthroned while we are alive and is forcing his Mark. You come upon a corrupt official who is willing to enter you into the System for a large bribe. Do you? Why or why not?

...

I've been recently pondering what it means that man is "god-like." Well, we each get to choose our moral actions, to determine what is "Good" and what is "Evil." This was the result of eating that tree in the Garden of Eden (side note: ever consider why God created and put such a tree in the Garden in the first place???).

Behind the mainstream scientism and sophistry, we are just in an elaborate morality play heading into some kind of denouement. Is this an end or The End? The lines are getting clearer by the day: are you on Team God or Team Satan?

What is the real purpose of living? Why are we here? What are we supposed to be doing?

Obviously God is Love and wants all of His creatures to reciprocate this perfect love, but by choice. When we contemplate these moral actions, we are acting God-like. This, I think, is one reason God did not completely wipe out Man: we bring glory to God when we freely choose to embrace the Good and to reflect His love. This is our primary reason for being and the only way to experience true joy.

Another way to see things: the Scriptures often speak about Christ as a husband and Israel/Church as His bride. This appears to be one reason why we have the gift of marriage: to help explain to us the nature of God's love towards His Chosen and his expectations in return. Each of us who've been in sexual relationships can understand how hurtful it would be if our partners cheated on us or left signs that they were not committed to us as we were to them. Recall: God is a "jealous God."

So, if we reflect upon both the purpose of our existence (theosis) and the requirement to be absolutely chaste before God--to have no other gods before Him--then how can any Christian fly the sigil of Satan? How can any Christian "opt-out" from the very moral choice that God has permitted us to experience: to demonstrate our Faith?

Finally, it is complete speculation, but I have often wondered if Daniel--wise and sophisticated as he was--could not have engineered a "way out" from demonstrating his fidelity to God. Remember: he was an exceptionally competent government official who was "owed" many favors. Heck, he could have probably sold his allegiance to a different king to avoid bending his knee to the golden statue.

But, Daniel was willing to "throw it all away" in order to demonstrate his love and obedience to God. So, imagine his mental state: that is exactly what God wants from us. As the title of a recently book by Cardinal Sarah put it: "God or Nothing."

So, I will not be taking this (literally) damned mark or any other Mark they force. The "exceptions" that they are holding out will be closed and everyone will have to choose (nothing wrong with attempting to religious or medical exemptions while you can). Personally, I will not comply and I will not attempt to weasel my way out of saying: "Not just 'no', but 'hell no!'"

The first step in fighting evil is always to tell the Truth. Don't be part of the lie.
 
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Johnnyvee

Ostrich
^^^^
I think she says more people, not marked people. (still a bitch though)

I would have zero qualms about doing that ("lying" about having the vaccine) if it was possible. It`s about as unethical as answering no when an armed robber asks you if you have any money on you, even though you in fact do. They cook the numbers anyway.
 
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DanielH

Ostrich
Orthodox
• I've argued this point before. If you're using your income to unplug yourself from the evil system and prepare yourself as opposed to participating in the petty amusements of craft breweries and other distractions then I believe you are justified.

• Regarding the idea of "lying" I've noted before that they started the lying. This entire hysteria is built on lies and they declared a war that was not of our choosing. At this point if you have to lie to extricate yourself from a system based on a tangle of lies, then can you be considered culpable? Is it not permissible to lie to combat the tyranny of liars?
Two wrongs don't make a right, and by forging the documents right now, you're contributing to the tangle of lies and making it substantially harder for those of us refusing to comply.
• Let's say for the sake of argument that the injection is meant to be some sort of tracking device, an infertility treatment, a culling measure, or that it has some other nefarious purpose. That is to say that the goal is the injection itself as opposed to a means to some other end such as the beginning of an ID system (I personally don't believe this, but I know many here do). If you can manipulate the system without actually receiving the poison, then whatever they're trying to accomplish will be foiled.
The tracking and control aspect is absolutely the main point of this, according to the Book of Revelation. "Ha I did the Mark of the Beast tattoo myself, instead of reporting to the medical authorities so it doesn't count and I can still enjoy this life!" - That won't work.
• In previous times of oppression, people forged papers to allow themselves and their dependents to live and reproduce. Were these people "liars" or "unethical?" Should they have just accepted death or gulag instead? You could argue that they should have, but they chose to do what they needed to do to survive and support other innocent people who couldn't fend for themselves.
Okay, but in 99% of the world we're nowhere near that point. When Pharaoh commanded the midwives to kill the Hebrew babies as they were being born, they reported to Pharaoh that they did kill them when really they spared them. God considered this justified. But keep in mind this was also a lie for someone else's life, not their own.

Christian martyrs from the very earliest ages accepted martyrdom instead of lying. Saint Sophia encouraged her children not to deny Christ, as her children were being tortured and killed before her very eyes.
• Finally, consider the actions of individuals such as the German nurse who distributed thousands of saline shots and doctors who are giving out false credentials to allow people to maintain their livelihoods and sustenance. Are these people liars or unethical or are they admirable and heroic?
They're lying for no spiritual benefit to anyone, perhaps maybe some material benefit. The material is not the point of our existence, including your very life. We're just sojourners on the way to the next. If you are so desperate to make this journey more pleasant, this may be a stumbling block in attaining eternal life.
 

Lawrence87

Woodpecker
Orthodox
The situation is complicated, and I can understand the reasoning behind those who would want to lie, however I do not think anything good will come of it.

It legitimizes the evil for a start. It is tacit compliance. In other words on the surface you are saying it's fine that the government are asking me to have an injection to get my freedoms back, even if you aren't actually having the injection.

I also don't think it will get very far. I think the current loopholes such as easily forged paper vaccine certificates and doctors who are willing to sign you off as being vaccinated are being allowed because it will eventually play into their narrative. We will start to hear stories about doctors falsely claiming that patients are vaccinated, and forged vaccine passports, and these will be tied to another variant or some other scare story that creates mass panic, and this will be used to justify some kind of technology based vaccine passport system that is impossible to forge and perhaps even technology that can detect whether the vaccine is present in a given person. In that instance you are back to square one.

Given this, I think the best option is to just refuse because you'll end up in that position anyway.
 

soli.deo.gloria

Woodpecker
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
Don't lie. Remain silent if you must, refuse to comply, do not confirm one way or another, but don't lie.

1 Peter 3:10
Whoever desires to love life and see good days, let him keep his tongue from evil and his lips from speaking deceit.

Proverbs 12:22
Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord, but those who act faithfully are his delight.

Proverbs 20:17
Bread gained by deceit is sweet to a man, but afterward his mouth will be full of gravel.

Proverbs 21:6
The getting of treasures by a lying tongue is a fleeting vapor and a snare of death.

Psalm 101:7
No one who practices deceit shall dwell in my house; no one who utters lies shall continue before my eyes.
 

Sisyphus

Woodpecker
Sisyphus:
• I've argued this point before. If you're using your income to unplug yourself from the evil system and prepare yourself as opposed to participating in the petty amusements of craft breweries and other distractions then I believe you are justified.

• Regarding the idea of "lying" I've noted before that they started the lying. This entire hysteria is built on lies and they declared a war that was not of our choosing. At this point if you have to lie to extricate yourself from a system based on a tangle of lies, then can you be considered culpable? Is it not permissible to lie to combat the tyranny of liars?

Two wrongs don't make a right, and by forging the documents right now, you're contributing to the tangle of lies and making it substantially harder for those of us refusing to comply.

Sisyphus:
Let's say for the sake of argument that the injection is meant to be some sort of tracking device, an infertility treatment, a culling measure, or that it has some other nefarious purpose. That is to say that the goal is the injection itself as opposed to a means to some other end such as the beginning of an ID system (I personally don't believe this, but I know many here do). If you can manipulate the system without actually receiving the poison, then whatever they're trying to accomplish will be foiled.
The tracking and control aspect is absolutely the main point of this, according to the Book of Revelation. "Ha I did the Mark of the Beast tattoo myself, instead of reporting to the medical authorities so it doesn't count and I can still enjoy this life!" - That won't work.

Sisyphus:
• In previous times of oppression, people forged papers to allow themselves and their dependents to live and reproduce. Were these people "liars" or "unethical?" Should they have just accepted death or gulag instead? You could argue that they should have, but they chose to do what they needed to do to survive and support other innocent people who couldn't fend for themselves.
Okay, but in 99% of the world we're nowhere near that point. When Pharaoh commanded the midwives to kill the Hebrew babies as they were being born, they reported to Pharaoh that they did kill them when really they spared them. God considered this justified. But keep in mind this was also a lie for someone else's life, not their own.

Christian martyrs from the very earliest ages accepted martyrdom instead of lying. Saint Sophia encouraged her children not to deny Christ, as her children were being tortured and killed before her very eyes.

Sisyphus:
Finally, consider the actions of individuals such as the German nurse who distributed thousands of saline shots and doctors who are giving out false credentials to allow people to maintain their livelihoods and sustenance. Are these people liars or unethical or are they admirable and heroic?
They're lying for no spiritual benefit to anyone, perhaps maybe some material benefit. The material is not the point of our existence, including your very life. We're just sojourners on the way to the next. If you are so desperate to make this journey more pleasant, this may be a stumbling block in attaining eternal life.

Your points are well taken and in general I'm inclined to agree with many of them and in fact most of what you've been saying in general in this sub-forum. I agree that compliance is hurtful to all of us. No one should submit to the injection or wear a mask under any circumstance. However, the title of the thread does not specify what level of compliance is being discussed and thus perhaps we are talking about different things. Some points I wish to clarify and respond to:

Having a forged card is not equivalent to using it. I've criticized some people discussed in a news story presented here which talked about a father and son team who were busted on a flight to Hawaii. You should not be waving a phony card around to get a nice beach vacation. It is strictly for survival. If it comes to this point, fooling a low level HR person at a small business will not impose any undue burden on everyone else. Especially if you're the only one of your colleagues who didn't actually succumb to the injection which is likely in most cases. Obviously this can vary based on the industry and the size of the operation.

I'm not understanding your second point. Under no circumstances do I advocate that anyone get the poison injection, nor participate in any sort of green pass, QR code, or whatever. As I wrote above, I agree with you that surveillance is the purpose of the hysteria and not the shot itself. But having a phony paper card seen by one HR drone to secure your livelihood will not subject you to any more tracking than you are already experiencing through the use of your phone. The Mark described in Revelation is required to buy and sell. A tattoo is permanent and cannot be falsified. Having a phony document printed on card stock is not the same as participating in electronic surveillance, and if it gets to that point then consider your efforts to have been thwarted and prepare for the next more challenging phase of the struggle. Hopefully you bought yourself some time. I disagree with you in that having a phony card does not mean renouncing the possibility of difficulty and struggle. It is likely and perhaps inevitable for all of us who hold fast and refuse to receive the poison.

You claim that 99% of the world does not require proof of injection to sustain themselves. It seems to me that many large countries or large industries within large countries have already forced these circumstances upon their citizens and employees respectively. I believe we're well beyond 1% of people who do need it to acquire sustenance. You don't address my point directly - one person's belief that we have "reached that point" may not agree with another's. And in any case, should one not prepare for the eventuality of reaching that point? I argue that for all intents and purposes, many people are at that point. What if in your estimation we do reach that point? Does this change your opinion? Do you believe the people I referred to should have chosen gulag or death over life and freedom? Do you believe everyone today should make that same choice? What about when other innocent people who can't fend for themselves are involved? Is it sinful and will they pay an eternal price for doing so?

It's not clear to me how the actions of the midwives helped the "spiritual life" of the Hebrew babies. Would the babies not have benefited from dying free of sin in their infancy instead? I fail to see the distinction between the actions of the German nurse and the midwives. Both acted selflessly and at great peril to themselves to preserve the corporeal, material existences of their beneficiaries. Should the nurse have injected thousands of people with the mystery concoction instead? Is saving a life not a commendable act? Why should anyone help anyone? Should we not just let them all pass into the eternal kingdom? Perhaps people can be forgiven for failing to overcome their animal instincts in fighting for their material worldly lives.

I know someone who received the poison under coercion - this person supports a wife and two children. I have directed no recrimination or reproach towards this individual. While I'm disappointed in his choice and I do agree that this action is detrimental to all of us, I understand the evil position he was put in. Perhaps he acted for his own benefit, but he also acted on behalf of others and sacrificed his bodily integrity in doing so. In this case, one could argue that receiving the poison is a form of martyrdom, especially if some of the predictions we see discussed on here come to fruition. Because in this case he won't enjoy any material benefit; instead he will enjoy the benefits of ADE and slow deterioration. Nonetheless, I personally don't subscribe to this viewpoint.

The choices are not black and white for everyone and one size does not fit all. I'm not advocating that anyone lie or participate in forgery nor am I saying I've done so myself. In fact, I agree that lying is only likely to come back to get you in the end and is to be avoided in all but the most dire circumstances.

I'm presenting one side of the ethical component of the debate raised by the title of this thread. Members posting in this thread have argued on both sides, but I believe that soon enough we are all likely to suffer the same miserable fate regardless of whether anyone has chosen to proceed down the route of falsification. Perhaps those making this choice understand that they are willing to delay the inevitable for slightly longer than you are, but I believe that all of us here (except for the occasional troll like the excess death guy) are fighting on the same side and will need to band together when the coercion becomes more violent and overt.

In a war that is not of your choosing, one can only impose so many requirements on allies willing to stand beside you and fight.
 

DanielH

Ostrich
Orthodox
@Sisyphus I misunderstood you then, given the context and further explanation of what your position is I am in agreement with you. With some of the things you were confused about my writing, it was mostly me going on tangents to make a roundabout point not necessarily directly applying to what you said.
In a war that is not of your choosing, one can only impose so many requirements on allies willing to stand beside you and fight.
It's not that clear cut, and this isn't referencing you as you've explained, but there are a lot of people who have a metaphorical line in the sand that they will not cross (and in practice sometimes they capitulate and the real line is a bit further back), what I'm trying to do is to encourage people to draw that line even closer to enemy lines, to stand with the people on the frontline like @Gazza and @SeekingTruth

We all should have drawn the line at churches, masks, and schools.
 
There's also the problem of regular boosters. You can never stay vaccinated or be vaccinated enough. That's the whole point.

If you are entered in the database then within the next few weeks, contact your GP and report unusual symptoms that you STRONGLY believe are associated with the VAXX. Next go around file for medical exemption based on vaxx issues. They would be hard pressed to push the boosters on you.
 

Sisyphus

Woodpecker
@Sisyphus I misunderstood you then, given the context and further explanation of what your position is I am in agreement with you. With some of the things you were confused about my writing, it was mostly me going on tangents to make a roundabout point not necessarily directly applying to what you said.

It's not that clear cut, and this isn't referencing you as you've explained, but there are a lot of people who have a metaphorical line in the sand that they will not cross (and in practice sometimes they capitulate and the real line is a bit further back), what I'm trying to do is to encourage people to draw that line even closer to enemy lines, to stand with the people on the frontline like @Gazza and @SeekingTruth

We all should have drawn the line at churches, masks, and schools.

Good on you. I agree that we need to draw our lines in the sand and maintain them. I confess my guilt of failing to understand the importance of this earlier on and I agree that we yielded too much in the early days. I went from refusing to wear a mask to only wearing a plague mask to chinning to just sucking it up to avoid the anxiety and the confrontations, but I now realize the error of my ways. I realize that this made it worse for everyone and that we would have defeated this evil long ago if we had all refused to comply. All I can do now is to no longer comply with mask wearing (and of course with receiving experimental injections), and no one has said a word to me since I started back on the correct path.

I believe that all forms of resistance are commendable. I don't remember @SeekingTruth's situation but I've been inspired by what @Gazza has discussed in the Australia thread, perhaps the most depressing of all on here. I even support and applaud the forms of resistance and mockery advocated by @kel and @RomikJan among others.

I hope that we can recognize that people can resist to their degree. We should help everyone who supports our opposition to get to the point of standing up, saying no, and refusing to concede any further. I stand with anyone who refuses to participate in the evil that is forced upon us at all times
 

hervens

Robin
DO NOT DO THIS, DO NOT DO THIS, DO NOT DO THIS.
You have to realise this is a spiritual warfare, not a physical one. I'm still waiting for the first confirmed case of someone in the west who dies of hunger and starvation because they didn't get the jab.

Think about it. There's been VERY little talk in the media on fake vaccines and fake passports, almost as if they want people to consider that option. Do not commit this sin, instead use this as an opportunity to reorganise your life and practice the refusal of the eventual "Mark" which, once it's introduced, will be impossible to fake.
 

kel

Ostrich
Fellas, you lie every day. Every single day without any exception you tell little lies here and there. You've lied on this very forum, and you will again. Often they're well-intentioned - you're telling a factual lie in the moment but you're signalling to a greater truth (e.g. saying "I love you" during a fight - you're probably not feeling love at that point, but you're signalling that you're a person committed to that love in the bigger picture). A society where everyone stated the unvarnished factual truth at all times would not be a very pleasant or productive one.

Add to that small infractions like jaywalking, speeding, playing music after 9 PM, line drying your clothes in some neighborhoods, etc. The idea that you can have fealty to the law or that you are even seriously trying in your day to day is an illusion. You're lying to yourself if you are telling yourself that.

So, if you have justified with your God lying daily to friends, family, neighbors, and even yourself, but you maintain devotion to a corrupt state for fear of God, then you have a second rate God and you need to find a new one.

If you feel it's unwise legally, or you want to "make a stand" like this, fine that's your decision. But I can not get behind this idea that you owe allegiance and honesty to a state that is lying to you. You are playing checkers, they are playing chess while simultaneously nuking the chessboard from orbit. If you're limiting yourself to the rules of checkers you are missing what's really going on here. I don't see anything "honest" about that.

On the secular level, this is perhaps analogous to the "well, according to the constitution we can't...." type discourse you get from Republicans, libertarians, etc. Watching somebody pointlessly lose at a game they don't even know they're playing is sad.
 

Lawrence87

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Fellas, you lie every day. Every single day without any exception you tell little lies here and there. You've lied on this very forum, and you will again. Often they're well-intentioned - you're telling a factual lie in the moment but you're signalling to a greater truth (e.g. saying "I love you" during a fight - you're probably not feeling love at that point, but you're signalling that you're a person committed to that love in the bigger picture). A society where everyone stated the unvarnished factual truth at all times would not be a very pleasant or productive one.

Add to that small infractions like jaywalking, speeding, playing music after 9 PM, line drying your clothes in some neighborhoods, etc. The idea that you can have fealty to the law or that you are even seriously trying in your day to day is an illusion. You're lying to yourself if you are telling yourself that.

So, if you have justified with your God lying daily to friends, family, neighbors, and even yourself, but you maintain devotion to a corrupt state for fear of God, then you have a second rate God and you need to find a new one.

If you feel it's unwise legally, or you want to "make a stand" like this, fine that's your decision. But I can not get behind this idea that you owe allegiance and honesty to a state that is lying to you. You are playing checkers, they are playing chess while simultaneously nuking the chessboard from orbit. If you're limiting yourself to the rules of checkers you are missing what's really going on here. I don't see anything "honest" about that.

On the secular level, this is perhaps analogous to the "well, according to the constitution we can't...." type discourse you get from Republicans, libertarians, etc. Watching somebody pointlessly lose at a game they don't even know they're playing is sad.
I would argue, to use your chess analogy that lying about the vax is akin to taking the bait of the opponent because you are thirsty for material, but don't see the trap they have in store.

Do you really think they would let their plans be foiled by fake documents? Of course not! What we are going to see is increasing stories about people faking vaccine passports to travel abroad, then once people are whipped up into a frenzy about it, they will uncover a new variant that was caused by these people travelling when they shouldn't... Then they will use this to legitimize more technical forms of vaccine restriction.

It's not so much that lying to the evil system is bad, its more that this is a bad move that doesn't give anyone the upper hand. You're going to have to resist and refuse at some point if you are set on not getting the vaccine, better to do it now IMO.
 

DanielH

Ostrich
Orthodox
Fellas, you lie every day. Every single day without any exception you tell little lies here and there. You've lied on this very forum, and you will again. Often they're well-intentioned - you're telling a factual lie in the moment but you're signalling to a greater truth (e.g. saying "I love you" during a fight - you're probably not feeling love at that point, but you're signalling that you're a person committed to that love in the bigger picture). A society where everyone stated the unvarnished factual truth at all times would not be a very pleasant or productive one.

Add to that small infractions like jaywalking, speeding, playing music after 9 PM, line drying your clothes in some neighborhoods, etc. The idea that you can have fealty to the law or that you are even seriously trying in your day to day is an illusion. You're lying to yourself if you are telling yourself that.

So, if you have justified with your God lying daily to friends, family, neighbors, and even yourself, but you maintain devotion to a corrupt state for fear of God, then you have a second rate God and you need to find a new one.

If you feel it's unwise legally, or you want to "make a stand" like this, fine that's your decision. But I can not get behind this idea that you owe allegiance and honesty to a state that is lying to you. You are playing checkers, they are playing chess while simultaneously nuking the chessboard from orbit. If you're limiting yourself to the rules of checkers you are missing what's really going on here. I don't see anything "honest" about that.

On the secular level, this is perhaps analogous to the "well, according to the constitution we can't...." type discourse you get from Republicans, libertarians, etc. Watching somebody pointlessly lose at a game they don't even know they're playing is sad.
There is nothing Christian in this morally relativistic post at all. We're not trying to win a worldly game here, and a multitude of our sins do not excuse another, not least of which one that is premeditated and intentioned. Paul writes for us to obey the state in all matters that do not cause us to sin, and the state he was referencing was also an evil one, shown in its persecution of Christ and His Church and offering sacrifices to idols (demons).

We can be civilly disobedient and even disobey laws that are sinful, but a premeditated lie for simply material gain is in no way justified.

And arguing from a secular level, the state by and large wants you to forge your papers and get into their system. They don't care how the cattle get into the pen and get branded.

None of us claim to be perfect Christians, I am not, but what you're writing may as well be coming from a demon. "What is just one more little sin? You do it all the time! They hate you, get back at them, you're playing checkers while they're playing chess, escalate!"
 

kel

Ostrich
Who said for "simply material gain"? This is strategic. I'm not saying "don't fight", I'm saying "there's nothing noble about charging headfirst into cannister fire to certain defeat when you could instead take a strategic approach and win".

All your sins are premeditated and intentioned. I just told you that you lie and jaywalk every day, you can't claim ignorance now. Tomorrow, when (not if, when) you do it, that was premeditated and intentional. You knew, and yet you chose to do it. Is crossing the street a second faster excusable and important in a way that setting up a place for your family and community to thrive not?

Way too many martyrs on here looking for the easy way out.
 

DanielH

Ostrich
Orthodox
All your sins are premeditated and intentioned.
Orthodox pre-communion prayer written by St. John Chrysostom:
I believe, O Lord, and I confess that Thou art truly the Christ the Son of the living God who camest into the world to save sinners, of whom I am first. I believe also that this is truly Thine own most pure Body, and that this is truly Thine own precious Blood. Therefore, I pray Thee: have mercy upon me and forgive my transgressions both voluntary and involuntary, of word and of deed, committed in knowledge or in ignorance. And make me worthy to partake with out condemnation of Thy most pure Mysteries, for the remission of my sins, and unto life everlasting. Amen.


Of Thy Mystical Supper, O Son of God, accept me today as a communicant; for I will not speak of Thy Mystery to Thine enemies, neither like Judas will I give Thee a kiss; but like the thief will I confess Thee: Remember me, O Lord, in Thy kingdom.


May the communion of Thy holy Mysteries be neither to my judgment, nor to my condemnation, O Lord, but to the healing of soul and body.
 

Lawrence87

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Who said for "simply material gain"? This is strategic. I'm not saying "don't fight", I'm saying "there's nothing noble about charging headfirst into cannister fire to certain defeat when you could instead take a strategic approach and win".

All your sins are premeditated and intentioned. I just told you that you lie and jaywalk every day, you can't claim ignorance now. Tomorrow, when (not if, when) you do it, that was premeditated and intentional. You knew, and yet you chose to do it. Is crossing the street a second faster excusable and important in a way that setting up a place for your family and community to thrive not?

Way too many martyrs on here looking for the easy way out.

Charging headlong into certain defeat without sacrificing your principles is way more noble than charging headlong into certain defeat having convinced yourself you're winning.

The point of contention I have is that the lie strategy does not win at this game. They aren't going to just stop at easily forged vaccine passports. That loophole will be closed and you will lose anyway. With the perpetual boosters, they will gradually improve the tech so that lying is not an option. Then what will you do? Keep going down an ever increasing tunnel of complex and expensive workarounds? At what point do you stop investing in the lie and stand up to them and say 'no'? Or will you cave and get the jab at that point?

Forgive me for saying this, but it's foolish to think forging the current standard of vaccine certification is the end of the line and counts as a win. It is inevitable that it will come to 'resist' or 'give in', at least if God permits it anyway.
 
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