Is it ethical and/or wise to lie to become vaccine compliant?

Lawrence87

Woodpecker
Orthodox
It is bearing false witness. That being stated, the doctor entering his name into the database it technically the one lying. Your friend could always just answer, "my name is in the database", and never say anything more. I wouldn't use a non-local doctor though, especially one taking money from people across the country to do it. It would look suspicious to any investigator. The issue is future booster shots. What if those become mandatory? Is your friend going to be able to sustain this? Personally, I won't even wear a mask because I think that's a lie, so there's no way I'm lying about getting injected. I'm not going to compromise with evil.
Causing someone else to sin is a sin. If you ask a doctor to lie for you its probably worse than lying yourself because you are possibly condemning someone else.

This reasoning is kinda like all the gymnastics the Jews do to get around the laws. It's Phariseeism. Encouraging others to lie for you, so you can keep your conscience clean is a sin, let's be clear about that.
 

El Draque

Kingfisher
Orthodox
It's f...ing gene therapy that changes you into who knows what. We are God's creatures and thus have been created in his own image (loose interpretation as this extents to all living beings IMO). No matter what, it's a sin and I consider it ethical to do whatever it takes to refuse the mark of the beast.

Thats not the issue.

I wont take it regardless. Its a question of would i do what my friend is considering, as a means of not taking it, or would i be open in refusing and stand my ground without papers.

If you get the fake papers /database entry, you sacrifice the latter, and have to essentially live the lie that "you got it". Also with the Sword of Damocles in being discovered as commiting fraud.

Fwiw where i am theres pretty much zero ramifications to not having it currently, but of course that will likely change
 

BasilSeal

Sparrow
Thats not the issue.

I wont take it regardless. Its a question of would i do what my friend is considering, as a means of not taking it, or would i be open in refusing and stand my ground without papers.

If you get the fake papers /database entry, you sacrifice the latter, and have to essentially live the lie that "you got it". Also with the Sword of Damocles in being discovered as commiting fraud.

Fwiw where i am theres pretty much zero ramifications to not having it currently, but of course that will likely change

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Fraud is fraud. It is seen, whether it is discovered on this earth or not.
 

NickK

Kingfisher
Orthodox
We're called to a higher standard than the Israelites. Lying is a sin, even if it's in response to evil. Have you encountered lives of the Saints where, upon their martyrdom, they lied? I would seek spiritual guidance on the activities you are saying are not wrong.
Thanks Roosh, the answer was that if anyone steals for the sake of his family then he has turned his family into an idol. Glory to God!

As for forging vaccine documents, I am wholly against it. I was referring specifically to financial documents to evade taxes (i.e. theft).
I don't yet have an answer for tax evasion against a cleptocracy.
 

Magnus Stout

Woodpecker
Orthodox
It is edifying to read so many comments by strong Christians!

Right now they are constructing the concentration "wellness" camps that some of us will likely end up in. Now, I am not going to lie to get some perverse Satanic permission slip (God is the author of freedom). However, if and when it comes to ordering us: go to the camps! Well, that is a better example of "rendering to Caesar what is Caesar's." Some will go to the camps to witness, but I have no problem with others becoming official exiles in their own countries (after all, is that not technically what a Christian "is"--a citizen of the Kingdom of God, not of this world?).

It is important to realize that we build courage for the big things by doing the little things first. This resistance to evil is a muscle that needs to be exercised. If you are seriously buckling now (when they still allow all kinds of loopholes), then do you think you will be able to resist when more pressure comes?

Every kind of moral action has cosmic significance. This is why I have advised people seeking religious exemptions not to just blindly print off paperwork, but to seriously tell their story--provide their Christian witness. Who knows what kind of effect such witness may have? Your actions--talk is cheap--may lead to the conviction and salvation of other people. Isn't that the essence of Christian living?

We sometimes forget: Christianity spreads during persecution! No Satanic or earthly power can resist Christian witness ("the Gates of Hell shall not prevail..."). Satan is merely the "prince of this world"--not the King! Throughout history God has permitted Satan to accuse and oppress Men; this process results in a "sifting of souls." Thus, we should see these challenges as opportunities to show Grace.
 

El Draque

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Been thinking more on this, and i really think the "living the lie that you 'got it'", would be more waring than people may think.

You would have to be pretty tight on this, as if you get the papers etc, and still go around openly talking to people about your take on it all, you will be leaving yourself wide open to being reported.

This might sound paranoid, but it's quite credible. Say you get it sorted, you will need to adopt a 'loose lips sink ships' mentality, even with friends. They might be fine, but what if they tell their girlfriend or brother or colleauge, or whoever.

That person might be a rabid covid believer, and you will be an abomination in their eyes. Pretty easy for them to make an anonymous phone call to police.

I can imagine a lot of people getting this stuff and finding it hard not to mention it, which would be leaving yourself wide open to potentially quite serious charges. Doing so would be foolhardy, and it's one of the reasons i'm advising my friend to hold off, for now at least.
 

Lawrence87

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Been thinking more on this, and i really think the "living the lie that you 'got it'", would be more waring than people may think.

You would have to be pretty tight on this, as if you get the papers etc, and still go around openly talking to people about your take on it all, you will be leaving yourself wide open to being reported.

This might sound paranoid, but it's quite credible. Say you get it sorted, you will need to adopt a 'loose lips sink ships' mentality, even with friends. They might be fine, but what if they tell their girlfriend or brother or colleauge, or whoever.

That person might be a rabid covid believer, and you will be an abomination in their eyes. Pretty easy for them to make an anonymous phone call to police.

I can imagine a lot of people getting this stuff and finding it hard not to mention it, which would be leaving yourself wide open to potentially quite serious charges. Doing so would be foolhardy, and it's one of the reasons i'm advising my friend to hold off, for now at least.

This is the thing with lying, it's not just one lie, to perpetuate a single lie, you have to add further and further lies.

For example, someone anti-vaccine who decides to forge vaccine certificates, now you're going to have to lie to most people that you are pro-vax. You're going to have to avoid the subject, or constantly be watchful with that colleague who you get on well with... When someone asks which vaccine you got, you gotta lie, when they say 'did you get any side effects?' you gotta lie. Perpetuating a lie is not easy.

As you say you've gotta have your story straight, you've gotta hide your true viewpoints. You've gotta watch for those moments when the conversation is flowing faster than you can be watchful of your tongue. Most people aren't that good at lying.
 
IMHO opinion, it's unethical to forge or otherwise pass yourself as an injected person, however this could be the lesser of evils if the global dictatorship advances through the stages of genocide in the region where you are. There will be a moment where you will have to protect your body integrity and the lives of members your family. There is a difference between dying as a martyr since there is no other way and would rather die than surrender and kneel, and longing to die as martyr because you view it as the easiest path. Our Lord said He came to the world to bring division, He even advised his disciples to sell their capes and buy swords... I can only say that you have to delay that moment as much as possible or avoid it altogether, but remember there will be a time when this option will not be available for anyone but the highest echelons of the elite so as others have said, in no time you will be at square one. In most cases, it's not worth the risk. You have to pray that you don't ever need this option.

It must only be used if you need desperately to buy time either to flee or something else. Otherwise, try to avoid it at all cost.

As the Scripture states

1 All things have their season, and in their times all things pass under heaven.

2 A time to be born and a time to die. A time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted.

3 A time to kill, and a time to heal. A time to destroy, and a time to build.

4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh. A time to mourn, and a time to dance.

5 A time to scatter stones, and a time to gather. A time to embrace, and a time to be far from embraces.

6 A time to get, and a time to lose. A time to keep, and a time to cast away.

7 A time to rend, and a time to sew. A time to keep silence, and a time to speak.

8 A time of love, and a time of hatred. A time of war, and a time of peace.

IN reference to our rulers, the biblical admonitions hardly apply when your government wants you and your people to die and be 6 ft underground or alter you beyond recognition in order to enslave you. The emperors, kings etc., of yore at least strove for the glory of their respective nations, our rulers, our real rulers would not even let themselves be seen, and instead use their mouthpieces to execute their mandates (politicians of all stripes and faceless bureaucrats).
 

El Draque

Kingfisher
Orthodox
I mean you could, sure. But getting evasive whenever the subject comes up is going to seem odd to some people

Ultimately, and this is my reservation, you would have to say that you yielded.

This would be clear in fact you are using 'vax privilge' in entering malls, getting treatment, crossing borders etc.

It would be foolish in extreme to let it slip you were using false passes. Someone would get wind of it and be angry, and youd be open to serious charges
 

Padouk

Kingfisher

sonoran_

Kingfisher
Gold Member
There's been many cases reported in the media of saline being found in the vials. If this blood testing is the next stage, then everyone will be required to get boosters (which we all know already).
 

I think we all knew that would be in the cards. I wouldn't put it past them to ban from flying all the "impure" non-vaxxed and later on ban the vaccinated since many of them will be susceptible to bloodclots, eliminating all human pilots except those at their behest, while most of the traffic will be AI piloted aircrafts. Similar fates will await most modes of travel for the "commoners". Cull the herd and control the remnant are the name of the game I'm afraid.
 
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