Mrredsquare
Kingfisher
From the WEF Thread - It will all be digitally linked:
Is it ethical and/or wise to lie to become vaccine compliant?
- Thread starter El Draque
- Start date
I'm guilty of this as well but worth mentioning that us westerners are conditioned to respond to these sorts of moral questions with "I think..." and not "The Bible says... The Church fathers say... My priest advised me to..." as if we are qualified to make that sort of moral judgment.
Geo Martin
Robin
I agree, but in these times I don't think there is a single nation that will stand up in unison for the word of God, if there ever was. Let's not be self defeating by accepting the equation put in front of us by the enemies of Christ that we are finished. It was the West who took the word of the Lord to the remotest corners of the earth, let's not forget that fact and them.
Good question. But it has implications which go beyond understandably short sighted answers.
Each passport, real or fake, increases the numbers of marked people and lowers those of the visible resistance.
Since technocracy is not about the vax but about the pass and the tracking / control that it will allow, a fake pass is not resisting, it’s being part of the system.
Of course not.
Now imagine the true unmarked without a pass being rounded up publicly with a crowd of bystanders.
I am part of the marked and safe crowd, watching.
Would I then give up my safety etc. and join the ones who really stand for what I actually believe in?
-
Getting a fake pass could be one step further on the path of decreasing one’s own resilience + the willingness / readiness to stand firm when the time comes.
I’m no hero, I’m not saying I could do this.
I simply think it’s better to train being a micro-martyr now before I won’t be willing to when the time comes.
Each passport, real or fake, increases the numbers of marked people and lowers those of the visible resistance.
Since technocracy is not about the vax but about the pass and the tracking / control that it will allow, a fake pass is not resisting, it’s being part of the system.
- So the question could rather be:
Of course not.
- So what this really means in the end:
- Let’s imagine an end-times-scenario:
Now imagine the true unmarked without a pass being rounded up publicly with a crowd of bystanders.
I am part of the marked and safe crowd, watching.
Would I then give up my safety etc. and join the ones who really stand for what I actually believe in?
-
Getting a fake pass could be one step further on the path of decreasing one’s own resilience + the willingness / readiness to stand firm when the time comes.
I’m no hero, I’m not saying I could do this.
I simply think it’s better to train being a micro-martyr now before I won’t be willing to when the time comes.
Great post. The Martyrs that came before us faced much worse persecution and they did not waiver. We should hold ourselves to a higher standard and put our faith in God. I know it's easier said than done but we should at least try. During the persecution of Christians in Lyon AD 177, St. Blandina was the greatest among them and she was only 15 years old!
Persecution in Lyon - Wikipedia
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I agree, we are weak and fallen, but we should try! The Martyrs "function" is actually to give us courage and strength to endure.Great post. The martyrs that came before us faced much worse persecution and they did not waiver. We should hold ourselves to a higher standard and put our faith in God. I know it's easier said than done but we should at least try. Blandina was the greatest among them in that particular episode and she was only 15 years old!
Persecution in Lyon - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Imagine being around the Apostles as an early Christian and knowing of or even witnessing their martyrdoms, oh what impact that would have had on you..!
Absolutley, there are many young martyrs... what deep faith!
I was touched by the martyrdom of The Holy Martyresses Vera (Faith), Nadezhda (Hope) and Liubov' (Love)
which is kinda fitting to this topic as well because it answers the question whether you should denounce Christ (the Truth) to save your loved ones with No.
"(Vera was 12, Nadezhda was 10 and Liubov' was 9)"
"[...] They subjected Saint Sophia to another and grievous torture: the mother was forced to look upon the suffering of her daughters. But she displayed adamant courage and during this whole while she urged the girls to endure the torments in the Name of the Heavenly Bridegroom. All three maidens with joy met their martyr's end. [...]"
The Holy Martyresses Vera (Faith), Nadezhda (Hope) and Liubov' (Love)
The Holy Martyresses Vera (Faith), Nadezhda (Hope) and Liubov' (Love)
droughtmeat
Woodpecker
The Bible is most likely the best reference. Priests and "church fathers", unfortunately, are not as reliable in these times. A mix of your instincts and the Bible as the direct word of God will probably lead to the best judgment in these strange times.
When I say Church Fathers I mean saints - their opinions don't change and they are in agreement against Covidism. The Bible was written and confirmed by the Church Fathers.
I came across something which appears to be relevant to this topic. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapsi_(Christianity):
The Decian persecution of 250 AD, which required all citizens of the Roman empire to publicly sacrifice to traditional gods, created unrest within the Church. Christians who submitted to pressure and made public sacrifice were called lapsed or lapsi. Upon completion of sacrifice, individuals received a certificate of sacrifice, or libellus, a legal document proving conformity with Roman religion.
Libellatici: Those who had drawn up attestation (libellus), or had, by bribing the authorities, caused such certificates to be drawn up for them, representing them as having offered sacrifice, without, however, having actually done so. A two-year sanction was imposed as penance. From Latin libellus – "little book; letter; certificate"
Acta facientes: Those that made false statements or other acts to save their lives. From Latin – "those doing the acts"
I believe the situation with the vaccines is not very different from the Decian persecution and I encourage all faithful Orthodox Christians to be strong and don't submit to persecution and that includes lying or using forged documents. This is not a judgment on anyone just an observation of history and Church teachings. I will continue to pray for us all.
The Decian persecution of 250 AD, which required all citizens of the Roman empire to publicly sacrifice to traditional gods, created unrest within the Church. Christians who submitted to pressure and made public sacrifice were called lapsed or lapsi. Upon completion of sacrifice, individuals received a certificate of sacrifice, or libellus, a legal document proving conformity with Roman religion.
Libellatici: Those who had drawn up attestation (libellus), or had, by bribing the authorities, caused such certificates to be drawn up for them, representing them as having offered sacrifice, without, however, having actually done so. A two-year sanction was imposed as penance. From Latin libellus – "little book; letter; certificate"
Acta facientes: Those that made false statements or other acts to save their lives. From Latin – "those doing the acts"
I believe the situation with the vaccines is not very different from the Decian persecution and I encourage all faithful Orthodox Christians to be strong and don't submit to persecution and that includes lying or using forged documents. This is not a judgment on anyone just an observation of history and Church teachings. I will continue to pray for us all.
PolishCalifornian
Robin
The System has revealed itself to be violently hostile towards law-abiding working families. While it's not a long-term solution, if you have an option to prolong your employment by using the same slipperiness against your employer that they have demonstrated towards you, do it. A friend of a friend provided a "proof of vaccination" to his employer when they asked him for it, they didn't specify that it was "his proof of vaccination", where he got it is his business. I know people who are actively planning emigration from their home countries because of these mandates (not to mention to escape the deluge of pro-vax, anti-Christian propaganda that their children are being pummeled with in schools). The government and businesses have shown no loyalty to their citizens and faithful workers, you are under no obligation to abide by their immoral, illegal and evil rules introduced without warning or through any legitimate process. Weighing the risks of possible legal action or at least not being able to use a former employer as a reference, against getting paid for another month or two before they introduce new, arbitrary requirements and digital verification systems, depending on your circumstances it may buy you time and breathing room to either see how the situation evolves (the coming month seems to be a possible inflection point) or to relocate and/or find new employment.
Geo Martin
Robin
I agree. We know the whole operation is not about keeping everyone healthy.
It's obvious that the vaccines and their passports are part of this experiment to bring about a whole new system. The perpetrators have admitted to this in countless oportunities.
The vaccines are only a vehicle for something else, a tracking system, so this means the passport is the objective of the vaccines and not the other way round.
I don't think the controllers care so much whether someone takes the vaccine or not, but they are really keen on the passports.
So, there's no such thing as a 'fake passport' as it only means you didn't get the injection, but the tracking is real, so it's a real passport in the sense that the whole purpose of it is to track your movement and more.
The way I see it is there is no difference between using a fake passport and taking the injection.
Besides cowardice and compliance to tyranny will never yeild anything good.
Bismark_Geist1571
Robin
I mean no offense, but you as well as @in.image.and.likeness are terribly wrong on something fundamental: The relationship of the vax and the pass. While control is one of their goals, it's pretty obvious at this point in time that they are obssessed with having whatever is in many of the concoctions they push flowing through the veins of the public; especially children, all in a very tight timeframe, thus leaving no room for discussions or rational thought in the public sphere. There are many possible reasons for this, being the destruction of the "control group" one the most important: after all no one will be able to pin the blame on the sacred needle if in 5 years we "find out" the omega variant rendered most of the population infertile and doomed to shortened lives...if 80 or 85%+ of the population is vaxxed. The pass is to ensure you have to get the vax and boosters at some point if you want to "live" in society and not be a pariah, safe from the virus. They know perfectly that only a small minority even among us here was prepared for the current events.
The tracking is already performed on anyone with smart devices of any sort and can easily be bypassed by anyone savvy enough or without digital addiction. However no one will escape whatever nanotechnology is implanted in those allowed to survive.
Ignore this reality at your own peril.
Sisyphus
Woodpecker
There’s a lot of talk of martyrdom in this thread. I understand why this can be considered something to aspire to, but I don’t think we’re at the stage where martyrdom is necessary or even the best course of action.
The early Christians had no choice but to martyr themselves. They were overwhelmingly outnumbered by the Roman juggernaut, and there were various sects to divide their already minuscule numbers. But we currently find ourselves in a much different situation.
Let’s use the US as an example. The liars claim that 2/3 of adults have received two administrations of the poison. Few of us here accept those numbers, but let’s do so for the sake of argument. Of that 2/3, many of them only did so under extreme coercion so we can disregard almost all who were added to the total after June or so. By then, anyone who really wanted to submit themselves could easily have done so. They also claim that 84% of people over 65 have gotten multiply injected.
So in reality, it’s something like half or even more of an adult population of 200 some million who are on our side. The ranks of the enemy consist largely of the old, frail, fat, and feeble minded. Yes, the enemy controls information and has superior weaponry, but victories are being won and I expect we have powerful allies we don’t yet know about. Our enemies have also yet to resort to the brutality with which the Roman Empire dealt with its dissidents – at least for now, we are not being executed in public without something resembling due process for the simple act of identifying evil and wrongness. We have yet to be forced to renounce our beliefs to remain alive. Yes, it's likely that we will soon be outcast, marginalized, or de-personed, but we have yet to reach that point.
While there have been times in history when martyrdom was the best and perhaps the only option, there have also been times when fighting and crusading was the purest way to promote good over evil. Should Christians have allowed Vienna to be sacked because they could ensure their place in heaven by being slaughtered or worse by the Turks? Would the world be better off if all true believers had chosen martyrdom over battle?
I’m not ready to martyr myself just yet. It’s clear to me that this is one of the times to resist the evil and to band together to attack it. There is no need for us to submit our lives along with those of our families and fellow men and taking action now can prevent us from ever reaching that unenviable state.
The early Christians had no choice but to martyr themselves. They were overwhelmingly outnumbered by the Roman juggernaut, and there were various sects to divide their already minuscule numbers. But we currently find ourselves in a much different situation.
Let’s use the US as an example. The liars claim that 2/3 of adults have received two administrations of the poison. Few of us here accept those numbers, but let’s do so for the sake of argument. Of that 2/3, many of them only did so under extreme coercion so we can disregard almost all who were added to the total after June or so. By then, anyone who really wanted to submit themselves could easily have done so. They also claim that 84% of people over 65 have gotten multiply injected.
So in reality, it’s something like half or even more of an adult population of 200 some million who are on our side. The ranks of the enemy consist largely of the old, frail, fat, and feeble minded. Yes, the enemy controls information and has superior weaponry, but victories are being won and I expect we have powerful allies we don’t yet know about. Our enemies have also yet to resort to the brutality with which the Roman Empire dealt with its dissidents – at least for now, we are not being executed in public without something resembling due process for the simple act of identifying evil and wrongness. We have yet to be forced to renounce our beliefs to remain alive. Yes, it's likely that we will soon be outcast, marginalized, or de-personed, but we have yet to reach that point.
While there have been times in history when martyrdom was the best and perhaps the only option, there have also been times when fighting and crusading was the purest way to promote good over evil. Should Christians have allowed Vienna to be sacked because they could ensure their place in heaven by being slaughtered or worse by the Turks? Would the world be better off if all true believers had chosen martyrdom over battle?
I’m not ready to martyr myself just yet. It’s clear to me that this is one of the times to resist the evil and to band together to attack it. There is no need for us to submit our lives along with those of our families and fellow men and taking action now can prevent us from ever reaching that unenviable state.
thank you for your thoughts. no offence taken, s'all good.
I absolutely agree that depop and a medical dictatorship which also brings in profit are a crucial part of this.
but the motivation is not „monofocal“, like you alluded to.
now: logically you don’t need a pass to ensure boosters because people can still reject the second, third, etc at any point if they choose to suffer the consequences. those who took the first shot are simply more likely to get the next one, the threshold is lower, it’s psychological, the pass technically does not make the person dependent on getting the next shot. what „forces“ the boosters is access / denial to supply of any kind.
I believe that at the top is the pass as a means to bring in total control, technocracy and transhumanism.
the current main goal (in a list of goals) is the digital pass because digitalization will for the first time provide the infrastructure needed to centralize control over all parts of life that are dependent on supply chains and services (it's a lot since we don't produce anything ourselves anymore).
also it’s not only about tracking (phones are here already, that’s right), it’s more about the phone being the first version of the device through which one is granted / denied access to the offers we are presented with by corps and institutions.
the next goal then is neo-feudalism, you’ll own nothing and will be happy, you rent everything from the overlords, and if you don’t abide by the community standards and terms and conditions, you won’t get food, medical treatment etc..
this leads to smart cities which will be platforms like facebook etc in real life managed by a social credit score and pseudo-universal basic digital income.
another step will be then to fully connect your DNA to a blockchain so that the human will be a biological mining rig for crypto also controlled by the elites (there are already articles about these ideas and patents - can’t remember where though, sorry).
I don’t know what you mean by „bypass“ the devices? if you mean that you can live without it, than yes, this is possible. but like I said, the device is only the holder of the pass (later it might be nano-tech inside your body that scanners react to) by which you are granted / denied access. bypassing it means no access. then self-sufficiency is the only way out (temporarily).
the obsession with vaxing everyone can be explained by depop like you said correctly, and by profit, but also by the historical / biblical truism that the whore riding the beast will one day be killed by the beast (Revelation) - meaning:
after a phase of openness / relativism / ecstasy / excess of freedom / moral depravity / sexual degeneracy (=the whore) a phase of totalitarianism / authoritarianism / total control / clamp down / wanting to account for everything will follow (=the beast).
from one extrem to the other. the pendulum must swing back.
there are spiritual forces at play that orchestrate human souls to leave the royal path and make idols out of things like inclusion, diversity, control, power, ect., and without God these things by themselves justify their own acquisition.
I am not ignoring the vax + boosters reality. on the contrary, I am seeing it coming full force and praying to God to give me the strength to bear the consequences of rejecting the vax + boosters + fake pass and be a testimony to the Truth that is Jesus Christ.
thus I see these basic outcomes:
1. we will comply
2. the attempt will fail due to structural deficiency and we will buy time
3. God will intervene
4. we will resist and die
btw you did not address the ethical points that are made here which are the actual reason of this thread.
would you out yourself as an unmarked fake pass recipient and join the ones standing with their backs against the wall ready to be dealt with by the police and or mob?
I think as Christians we should think these things through.
forgive me if I come across as arrogant, I did not mean to. I wish you a blessed day/night.
IC
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all good and well. it's important to balance extremes and get back to a sober view of the state of affairs, I agree.
martyrdom is not necessarily a wish (one should be cautious indeed with one's naive dreams of heroism and feelings of pride), but rather a possible outcome all things considered rationally.
now:
would you get the fake pass which would increase the numbers of vaxed people, would activelly put your name into the system, and would further the implementation of totalitarian control?
is it ethical to get one considering this?
because my argument is that the consequences of a fake pass reach further than one might think.
good night
IC
Bismark_Geist1571
Robin
Thanks for your response.
I apologize for any misunderstanding. While I'm no privy to the plans of the elite, as you said there actions aim at accomplishing multiple objectives. My point was that control was not the only or even the most important aspect of this. Regardless of the real purpose (depop, transhumanism, money or more likely all of them together), their focus in on injecting whatever is in the jabs into the population. In order to accomplish that they have instructed their puppets to even risk or directly destroy their political careers (and in some countries even taken with them their political parties) just so they can have this concoction flowing through the veins of most of the population.
While vast swathes of the third world are still on the pipeline, Where I'm currently located, I have witnessed how the regime under globalist control has even sent vaxx crews by helicopter to the jungle in order to "save" the Aborigins from the "great plague". And how side effects are swept under the rug since the local media is completely in cahoots with their governments and local oligarchs. This is a third world country where mestizos and mulattoes made up 70% of the population (hispanic country). And close contacts have told me, to varying degrees, similar stories in other countries of the region. It's pretty obvious the purpose is the injection, control being an objective to be accomplished later in order to enforce the cycle of never-ending doses, especially when it's done in countries where the digital infrastructure is still fledging so tracking and control are not implemented yet even in the great cities...
It takes us to the point where the duty of every Christian (and really anyone who wants to remain human and free) is to avoid the concoction at all costs. The pass is the way to put the pressure on anyone even doubting the boosters, eg., if you don't take it your pass will expire and guess what, you will be the same as the unvaxxed in the eyes of "polite society", thus ensuring conformity. The pass is a goal in itself as you outlined very accurately but it's also a means to force compliance in many other ways...like enforcing vaxx uptake. Maybe there are spiritual consequences to the continuous uptake of whatever is in the shots...
Regarding your question, in time there will be no more room for wiggling. Jabless passes will be a temporary solution, useful only to buy precious time.
Could this COVID-19 ‘health passport’ be the future of travel and events?
Spikes in coronavirus across the world are once again impacting the tourism industry. But one start-up has a possible solution – an app which acts as a health passport to prove travellers are virus-free.
Regarding my position, you should pray you don't need it ever, understanding it should only be pondered in the most extreme conditions, not to indulge in a consumer lifestyle that is dead anyway. That's my position.
Have a good evening. God bless you.
From where I am sitting that ship has already sailed, notwithstanding the whole torture & public executions bit.
If it was His will, then yes. Imho that should be the thing we are most concerned about, and then conducting our affairs accordingly.
I don't think anyone is suggesting we just lay down and die. However I still believe it is wrong to meet evil with evil (lying, forging documents, being explicitly deceptive or dishonest in our words or dealings, etc). I think the point about Martyrs is simply that if push comes to shove, it is better to be a Martyr than an apostate or a lapsi.
Your post was excellent but for me this is the most relevant bit. It is 100% spiritual warfare. Everything should be framed within this context because that's what it all boils down to. People who are expressing wordly concerns are looking at it wrong. You can't "win" at this game by somehow prolonging your life, or saving your job, etc. If you know the truth then you have an obligation to be a faithful witness to Christ and resist the tyranny and evil, at any cost (but not through evil means).
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Hello again.Thanks for your response.
I apologize for any misunderstanding. While I'm no privy to the plans of the elite, as you said there actions aim at accomplishing multiple objectives. My point was that control was not the only or even the most important aspect of this. Regardless of the real purpose (depop, transhumanism, money or more likely all of them together), their focus in on injecting whatever is in the jabs into the population. In order to accomplish that they have instructed their puppets to even risk or directly destroy their political careers (and in some countries even taken with them their political parties) just so they can have this concoction flowing through the veins of most of the population.
While vast swathes of the third world are still on the pipeline, Where I'm currently located, I have witnessed how the regime under globalist control has even sent vaxx crews by helicopter to the jungle in order to "save" the Aborigins from the "great plague". And how side effects are swept under the rug since the local media is completely in cahoots with their governments and local oligarchs. This is a third world country where mestizos and mulattoes made up 70% of the population (hispanic country). And close contacts have told me, to varying degrees, similar stories in other countries of the region. It's pretty obvious the purpose is the injection, control being an objective to be accomplished later in order to enforce the cycle of never-ending doses, especially when it's done in countries where the digital infrastructure is still fledging so tracking and control are not implemented yet even in the great cities...
It takes us to the point where the duty of every Christian (and really anyone who wants to remain human and free) is to avoid the concoction at all costs. The pass is the way to put the pressure on anyone even doubting the boosters, eg., if you don't take it your pass will expire and guess what, you will be the same as the unvaxxed in the eyes of "polite society", thus ensuring conformity. The pass is a goal in itself as you outlined very accurately but it's also a means to force compliance in many other ways...like enforcing vaxx uptake. Maybe there are spiritual consequences to the continuous uptake of whatever is in the shots...
Regarding your question, in time there will be no more room for wiggling. Jabless passes will be a temporary solution, useful only to buy precious time.
Could this COVID-19 ‘health passport’ be the future of travel and events?
Spikes in coronavirus across the world are once again impacting the tourism industry. But one start-up has a possible solution – an app which acts as a health passport to prove travellers are virus-free.www.weforum.org
Regarding my position, you should pray you don't need it ever, understanding it should only be pondered in the most extreme conditions, not to indulge in a consumer lifestyle that is dead anyway. That's my position.
Have a good evening. God bless you.
There is only one main thing I am actually trying to get across and it is that of empathy, solidarity, truth and ethics.
So let's imagine the following:
60% have the real pass, 35 % have the fake pass, 5% have none.
The MSM is reporting daily that 95% are vaxxed, and 5% are unvaxed. The vaxed are consuming the MSM daily.
Then the clamp-down against the unvaxed begins.
How high is the threshold for the 35% to out themselves and join the 5% in support against the 60% and the state?
How is love and empathy of the vaxed (towards the unvaxed) effected by them knowing
a) that they are 95% against 5%?
b) that they are 60% against 40%?
Is there a difference between a and b that might lead to a different reaction by the 60%?
Is it thus ethical to get a fake pass when you can assume that it might affect those who stand firm against it all?
Let's not even call it ethical, let's say: Is it brotherly?
Many of us will propably resort to getting a fake pass when the suffering surpasses our strenght, but is it ethical? No.
I absolutely and vehemently disagree! "At all costs" includes deadly sins and apostasy. No!
Splendid! Very well put.
Amen!