Is the collapse of American male-female relationships due to social media?

Blade Runner

Kingfisher
Let's look at how men have largely (and continue to handle) the destructiveness of mainstream dating: The most negatively affected are the losers, of course. For men, those without good jobs or unattractive or shy, they're the incels. Many men including here will blame them for being lazy, blue pilled or well, losers. And there's some merit to that observation. In addition, men compete for women, particularly in the PUA community, so there's an attitude of "I'll get mine first."

Although women are hivemind/social driven creatures, they also may have an opinion that women who don't land the perfect guy are losers but THEY'RE special so perhaps THEY'LL get the ideal man they want. To see themselves as "moral" is ultimately to shatter a narrative of feminist entitlement that's more than a century old. And they'll go into DEEP denial before that happens.

I had hoped this was going to shatter back in the 1990's.

The ultimate is the inversion of evolved, traditional living now into the point mentioned earlier: sex being relatively easy to get, but commitment near impossible. The recognition that it's generally easy, yet so many are outside of the window (pareto distribution) drives men even more mad, just like the young men of the middle east locked out by the sultan harems. It is literally taunting them and with technology/media in your face with sex all the time, it is extremely detrimental for men in the short term, and women (obviously) in the long term since they are induced to lose what is most important: chastity, humility, love, and their youth.
 

Geremia

Sparrow
If social media hadn't arisen, would things be much better/worse than today?
I don't think means of communication make that much of a difference. Letter writing has been around for millennia just like face-to-face communication has.
What is probably much different today is the widespread cultural acceptance of perverted morals. A poor culture is not conducive to good male-female relations.
Why didn't the Spartans' regime last? The radical divide between men and women: The women formed a debauched matriarchy within the State, and the men didn't do much else besides wage war and, due to lack of women, commit acts of sodomy. (cf. St. Thomas's commentary on Aristotle's Politics bk. 2 ch. 13-14).
It wasn't until Christianity that male-female friendships became widespread and culturally acceptable; cf. Rosemary Rader's Breaking Boundaries: Male/Female Friendship in Early Christian Communities.
 
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The ultimate is the inversion of evolved, traditional living now into the point mentioned earlier: sex being relatively easy to get, but commitment near impossible. The recognition that it's generally easy, yet so many are outside of the window (pareto distribution) drives men even more mad, just like the young men of the middle east locked out by the sultan harems. It is literally taunting them and with technology/media in your face with sex all the time, it is extremely detrimental for men in the short term, and women (obviously) in the long term since they are induced to lose what is most important: chastity, humility, love, and their youth.

Rather than the term "recognition", I'd use the term "perception" because although it looks easy: Just install an app, swipe a few dozen times, and women delivered to your doorstep, for most, it doesn't work.

I'm reminded of this scene in Logan's Run where my father, RIP, back then said "I want one of those!"

Looks a lot like tinder, doesn't it?

I'm also reminded of the Ashley Madison app where the scam artists who ran the site only had something like 1 woman for 10,000 guys so they programmed "bots" to send random messages to them and nothing further just to keep the inbox from being totally stale.

Regarding sultan harems. Polygamy in Islamic nations does seem to go hand-in-hand with unstable regions requiring autocratic authoritarian regimes with prisons to keep the places from breaking out into complete anarchy but this is offset by nearly ALL women marrying young (and staying married) unlike in the west where most career women wait until their late 20's to settle down with a significant fraction of them never marrying at all.
 

Rob Banks

Pelican
"Is the collapse of American male-female relationships due to social media?"

That's like asking "Is the collapse of male-female relations due to tranagenderism?" or "Is the collapse of male-female relations due to the latest garbage Hollywood movie?"

Yes, social media made things worse, but it is hardly the cause of the collapse. It is merely a drop in the 500-gallon bucket that has been accumulating water, drop by drop, for at least the last 100 years (some would say as far back as the Industrial Revolution, or even the Protestant Reformation).
 

Days of Broken Arrows

Crow
Gold Member
It's a self-feeding cycle. Any argument in right-leaning circles about where things went wrong will always devolve in trying to find a moment that explains everything, and thus keeps going further and further back as people draw connections from one to another - "it was the social degradation of the sixties", "no, it was the creation of the fed", "no, it was the French Revolution", on and on and on, and everybody is kinda right but are missing the point.

Social media plays a big part of it, of course, because it opens women up to quick, easy, gamified validation and status seeking. The smartphone, particularly, made this terrible because now it's beamed into their pocket 24/7, rather than Facebook being a place people went and then left like any other website up until the last decade.

Of course, you can trace that back to feminism and the welfare state making this possible in the first place, breaking down the social contract wherein women were given special protections and a privileged place in society because of their crucial roles (child rearing, social harmony) but weaker physical and intellectual capacities. Thanks to feminism and the welfare state, women have gotten rid of all expectations of themselves while holding on to the special privileges (and acquiring new ones) accorded to them.

Social media is just the latest, most extreme expression of that. I'd say it's particularly bad and extreme, so in that sense, yes, it's due to that. But, it's just the latest, most extreme expression, as I say. Even the acceleration is now accelerating.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner! The smartphone destroyed life as we once knew it.

Beyond the obvious (people not engaging with the world and staring at screens), texting is the issue. It dehumanizes people. Years ago you actually had to talk to people in person or on the phone. When you see people or hear their voices, they're more 3D. It's easier to dismiss people or trivialize them with texting.

Social media is part of this, since you can get it on your smartphone. But we were connected on primitive types of social media before the smartphone (usenet, AOL, Yahoo Messenger). From what I remember, they helped bring people together. Smartphone create distance and alienate people.
 

fokker

Pelican
This analogy is pretty good. Although I think "getting sex" could actually be replaced with "proper upbringing/desire to rebel".

Ironically I think pendulum will swing soon. As a black pill video as this is for young teens/zoomers there is light.
My reasons:

1. "Rebelling" has become so mainstream that it feels 'normal'. Tattoos are "normal". OnlyFans is "normal" and now being conservative/Christian has become alternative/punk.
2. This is the big one - millennial are about to hit 40. Millennial WOMEN. There will probably the largest number of unmarried/childless adults in WESTERN HISTORY (20%+ maybe more?). The feminism lie will catch up and serve as the biggest cautionary tale for future generations. All those articles you see where the woman says, "I'm 40, successful and can't find a man etc etc." -- That used to be the exception. THAT will become the new normal and will be fun to watch it all unfold.

Of course, the women may double down and go into "cope mode" and say, "I'm fine, I'm fine everything is fine" deluding herself.

Be ready. THE DAY OF THE WALL is upon us.

Tell those long-haired metalheads that Orthodox clergy often have long hair and/or beards.
 

asdf

Sparrow
Social media and smartphone tech etc. are the great facilitators to the dating market forces that had already formed. Namely the competitive nature of men to get more and more, men getting styled and fit while women get more slovenly and throw on some yoga pants for attention, Popularity, physical appearance, and wealth determining status. Too many factors to list really but the point is the societal decay was already there, and the social media tech simply bridge the gap in the market between the buyers and sellers.
 

asdf

Sparrow
Social media and smartphone tech etc. are the great facilitators to the dating market forces that had already formed. Namely the competitive nature of men to get more and more, men getting styled and fit while women get more slovenly and throw on some yoga pants for attention, Popularity, physical appearance, and wealth determining status. Too many factors to list really but the point is the societal decay was already there, and the social media tech simply bridge the gap in the market between the buyers and sellers.

edit: one could argue it unnaturally bridged that gap because without such technology, it would still take real interactions for these things to take place which would never work due to the nature of real life interactions. So in that way, the tech angle to this social decay certainly destroyed whatever could have been saved in the normalcy of it by being face to face or atleast on a lesser technology it wouldnt be so greatly exaggerated of an issue
 

MRAll134

Kingfisher
I argue that the widespread adoption of contraception is the root cause.

Since the '60s, it has all been dysgenic. If you are a believer in Charles Darwin's natural selection, this theory has been removed by technology - like Easy says through "contraception." Also, Dr. Edward Dutton has said numerous times that the heyday of IQ was back in 1850s; it is kind of all downhill from there.

From a Christian perspective, I can't get over this passage: "that is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh (Genesis 2:24)." This is becoming less and less true, across the generations.
 
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