Guys, especially Americans, I would like to know your opinion on this highly controversial topic. Personally, for me as a non-American, the US always appeared like a Christian country but were the states really built on Christian foundations as it is often publicly presented?
Is the US a Christian country?
- Thread starter fortyfive
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I was thinking about this as well recently.
How do you reconcile the very Masonic / demi-Jew reality of the founding fathers with Christian nationalism? The country seems to have been compromised from the outset.
How do you reconcile the very Masonic / demi-Jew reality of the founding fathers with Christian nationalism? The country seems to have been compromised from the outset.
At best the US is a deformed Christian country. A real Christian country would be able to declare Christ as King in its founding/constitutional documents. At present the US is expressing itself more like Babylon. In all reality the US is just part of the whole arc of history where Christianity is being subverted in the nations and this will eventually lead to the Antichrist. Christ called out what to expect as the subversion of His message was the only thing left that the enemy could do.
I'm not American, but I have two reactions to that:
1) Is this part of a move to undermine so-called right-wingers' loyalty to the Constitution - specifically to free speech and guns.
2) This might seem like a contradiction, but I do think the Founding Fathers were Masons, and Franklin in particular did have a shady past, including having attended the Hellfire Club.* So perhaps he's right.
*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellfire_Club
GM Davis’ book “Antichrist: The Fulfillment of Globalisation” makes an interesting point that the West becoming what it is today can ultimately be traced back to its departure from the Orthodox Faith, which I think is somewhat related to the question.
America was founded on principles of the revolutionary spirit. I don’t wish to denigrate faithful Christians in the US who long for Christ and do their best to follow him nor faithful non-Orthodox on this forum, but I do think the idea that America was a great bastion of Christianity is largely a myth and perhaps the Orthodox view of history might be helpful to some. It was founded long after the west cut itself loose.
I remember my NRx days reading Moldbug who said “Communism is as American as apple pie”
America was founded on principles of the revolutionary spirit. I don’t wish to denigrate faithful Christians in the US who long for Christ and do their best to follow him nor faithful non-Orthodox on this forum, but I do think the idea that America was a great bastion of Christianity is largely a myth and perhaps the Orthodox view of history might be helpful to some. It was founded long after the west cut itself loose.
I remember my NRx days reading Moldbug who said “Communism is as American as apple pie”
Even though the USA did (and still do) have a high percentage of Christians population, I honestly don't think America started out as a "Christian country".
In my opinion, America was founded on a "Christian values system" until around late 1930's. What happened? Well...during WWII, the "Judeo-Christian" catchphrase started to pop up out of nowhere. That's when the Chews started infecting America's institutions.
In my opinion, America was founded on a "Christian values system" until around late 1930's. What happened? Well...during WWII, the "Judeo-Christian" catchphrase started to pop up out of nowhere. That's when the Chews started infecting America's institutions.
There are many who think america is a christian nation. There are also many who believe we are a secular nation. The truth is way more prosaic. The founders of our country lived in the 1770s. There was just as much time between their time and the 30 years war as our time and the civil war. They knew what religious factionalism could do and wanted to steer clear of it. Look it up, the 30 years war was a nightmare. Hence freedom of religion.
However, the constitution needs a Christian population with Christian values in order to function properly. Our constitution is useless for a secular population. Without Christ there are no rights. Just people with guns telling you what to do.
However, the constitution needs a Christian population with Christian values in order to function properly. Our constitution is useless for a secular population. Without Christ there are no rights. Just people with guns telling you what to do.
The United States as a whole is a post Christian country. I think that we need to draw a distinction between the local culture and the federal culture.
While a significant portion of the common population have been holders of Christian culture, the same is not true for the elites/government of the country (they have never been Christians). The local culture of (especially rural locations) US population is Christian, or at least it used to be like that prior to the late 20th century. Even in the early 2000s many cities had a local Christian culture, which cannot be said of the same cities in the 2020s. However the government as a whole has never had a Christian culture, although individual presidents and senators were Christians. Christianity is in steep decline in the US though. Many cities and towns which had been places of Christian or Mormon culture in the early 2000s are now places of liberal or secular or homosexual culture. And Hollywood actors, movies, and medias have a blatantly Satanic culture, to absurdity. Christian culture remains in the US only in certain states and certain localized enclaves. If you live in one of those enclaves, it may seem to you like 90% of the population are Christians, so you can conclude that the US is a Christian country, but drive over to the next state or city, and you'll find that the culture there is non Christian, or even anti Christian. People who say that the US is a Christian country have probably only lived in such enclaves or states their entire lives, and they have never traveled around the country.
While a significant portion of the common population have been holders of Christian culture, the same is not true for the elites/government of the country (they have never been Christians). The local culture of (especially rural locations) US population is Christian, or at least it used to be like that prior to the late 20th century. Even in the early 2000s many cities had a local Christian culture, which cannot be said of the same cities in the 2020s. However the government as a whole has never had a Christian culture, although individual presidents and senators were Christians. Christianity is in steep decline in the US though. Many cities and towns which had been places of Christian or Mormon culture in the early 2000s are now places of liberal or secular or homosexual culture. And Hollywood actors, movies, and medias have a blatantly Satanic culture, to absurdity. Christian culture remains in the US only in certain states and certain localized enclaves. If you live in one of those enclaves, it may seem to you like 90% of the population are Christians, so you can conclude that the US is a Christian country, but drive over to the next state or city, and you'll find that the culture there is non Christian, or even anti Christian. People who say that the US is a Christian country have probably only lived in such enclaves or states their entire lives, and they have never traveled around the country.
This Tik-Toker seems to be wanting to validate his nihilistic worldview by cherry-picking facts about the Revolution. I'll briefly discuss why he is mostly wrong starting with symbols from that era. One that is used the most today is the Gadsden flag with its serpent imagery, and it is not exactly a Christian image (see: Luke 10:19). However the less often used Pine Tree flag is stating "An Appeal to Heaven" or "An Appeal to God" would appear to be. Also the Gostlowe flag stating "Resistance to Tyrants is Obedenience to God" is rarely seen or known of these days, but was perhaps more widespread in 1776. and it's motto was definitely understood as the basis for their war. The Betsy Ross style flag with its five-pointed stars could be debated about, but the five-pointed star in the West was understood to represent the five wounds of Christ prior to 19th century occult co-opting the symbol as a pentagram. The fact that they usually invert it supports this theory.
Next, as far as founding fathers being non-Christian, we can use one of his examples John Adams as being a bit more complex than this TikTok stated. Adams was a deacon in a local Protestant church and seemed to be steeped in the Bible. As far as Declaration signers, some were deeply religious Quakers and other Protestant ministers and even a prominent Catholic Charles Carroll. In the case of Jefferson and Franklin there is a definite strain of Gnosticism that would seem to be there that is brought up to smear to the rest. How deeply Washington embraced the Masonic beliefs is debatable.
The form of government being a Republic is not Christian IMO, and was informed by their Classical education and desire to LARP as Romans. The Republican form of government is not Biblical or Christian. Though America can even be said to be a Republic anymore (it's not.) I believe the actual later Roman and Eastern Orthodox position is a synergy of a Christian monarch with the Church, meaning most governments existing today are not Christian. And the Netherlands and I believe San Marino were Christian nations with Republican governments before the U.S.
To touch on their ideals, they viewed themselves as opposing tyranny, meaning unjust rule. They cited the Bible, as David fought against Saul (though declined to kill him when given the chance). Others may disagree with the American rationale for their revolt, but I think that's a distinction between them that they seemed to be intent on a more localized rule whereas the French and Russian revolutions resulted in bloody purges and their monarchs being murdered. The Founding Fathers even considered crowning Washington and styling him as a European monarch, though he refused.
The Founding Fathers consisted of various Christian sects founded and fought their war upon a worldview that was explicitly Christian, though of course with some spirit of the age Gnostic corruption thrown in. Secularism as a worldview wasn't really a thing at the time of the country's founding, the term was first coined in 1851. Though of course there are always those attempting to re-write the past using current-year mindsets.
Next, as far as founding fathers being non-Christian, we can use one of his examples John Adams as being a bit more complex than this TikTok stated. Adams was a deacon in a local Protestant church and seemed to be steeped in the Bible. As far as Declaration signers, some were deeply religious Quakers and other Protestant ministers and even a prominent Catholic Charles Carroll. In the case of Jefferson and Franklin there is a definite strain of Gnosticism that would seem to be there that is brought up to smear to the rest. How deeply Washington embraced the Masonic beliefs is debatable.
The form of government being a Republic is not Christian IMO, and was informed by their Classical education and desire to LARP as Romans. The Republican form of government is not Biblical or Christian. Though America can even be said to be a Republic anymore (it's not.) I believe the actual later Roman and Eastern Orthodox position is a synergy of a Christian monarch with the Church, meaning most governments existing today are not Christian. And the Netherlands and I believe San Marino were Christian nations with Republican governments before the U.S.
To touch on their ideals, they viewed themselves as opposing tyranny, meaning unjust rule. They cited the Bible, as David fought against Saul (though declined to kill him when given the chance). Others may disagree with the American rationale for their revolt, but I think that's a distinction between them that they seemed to be intent on a more localized rule whereas the French and Russian revolutions resulted in bloody purges and their monarchs being murdered. The Founding Fathers even considered crowning Washington and styling him as a European monarch, though he refused.
The Founding Fathers consisted of various Christian sects founded and fought their war upon a worldview that was explicitly Christian, though of course with some spirit of the age Gnostic corruption thrown in. Secularism as a worldview wasn't really a thing at the time of the country's founding, the term was first coined in 1851. Though of course there are always those attempting to re-write the past using current-year mindsets.
Well it's been used as the vehicle to propel all evil of capitalism, individualism, pornography and other things to the world for sure. Besides, what is a Christian country? What does it entail, what are the boundaries of that. If 90% is Christian in name and either doesn't go to church nor live even basic Christian morals, or go to a church where a tranny is reading and all wordly fallen agenda flags are weaving, is it Christian? You can go back to Christian history and argue that when the Papal protestants split from the Church, and then the Reformed protestants split from the Papal protestants into more minute segments by the generation, then eventually you're gonna get so far away from basic, ancient Christianity as the West has become. In that sense the deeper argument would be that, although the already named Jewish/Masonic influences probably played a big role too. Then it would be better to say that the US was founded as a traditionalist country in the socio-cultural sense, but already radical economically with hyper capitalism, but because of said factors it was meant to go off the charts inevitably later down the road.
At a minimum, it would be a government that acknowledges the Christian God, even if not accepting an official denomination.
You go somewhere like Mexico, and the Church is everywhere, and public officials are openly and intrinsically Christian and realizes that Christmas is the celebration of the virgin birth, not a week off to celebrate Santa Claus and Hanukkah and Festivus.
A place where faith and religion isn't banned, but the opposite--it is an inseperable part of what government does, and its policies and rules are meant to back up Christian principles.
By that measure, even European nations with low churchgoers, would count. At least the government is operating under Christian faith and principles--it's up to the people to accept or reject that based on God's given free will.
The constitution is merely the rulebook that outlines what spheres our different bodies of government can and cannot regulate, and how they can lawfully do so. Every country has a rulebook for its government to play by. There are things I like and dislike about our governments rulebook, but I don't feel that I owe any allegience or loyalty to it. It's just the rules our rulers must play by (when they pay attention to them, which they often do not).
As to the OP's question, most of the founders who wrote the laws did believe in God, though to varying degrees of what we would recognize as Christianity. But whatever their personal faith was, they created a government that was secular. Can you imagine a bill of rights that does not mention God at all?
Dr. Kevin McDonald calls America the Great Shopping Mall, and it was certainly set up with that sort of end goal, as opposed to creating a safe and stable society that operates under God's law and encourages those to live a holy and spiritual life.
What's most important under American Federal Law? Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Life can be expressed as the fear of dying. Those who have God's salvation do not need fear death.
Liberty is freedom or lack of restraint, licentiousness, and sin. Unless something is deemed unpopular by majority rule democracy, it is allowed.
P of H is commonly translated as property. In other words wealth or mammon.
Do you see how this is not at all a recipe for Godliness?
I was thinking again about this topic as the ''equal'' in the following quote was brought to my attention:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
If we dissect this: ''these truths'' means subjectivity, whereas there is one objective Truth in Christ and his teachings. Furthermore, Satan wanted to be equal to God, so equality in itself is Satanic. Then, the idea of ''rights'' isn't Christian at all: you don't have any ''rights''. Then, these rights are liberty and happiness? Liberty of what, of sin? The only Christian understanding of liberty is the liberty to not commit sin, for that is slavery. But how it developed obviously liberty aka ''freedom'' came to be doing whatever sin you want and pushing it to the max. Then happiness is a total new age nonsense idea. Nowhere in a Christian text or lecture ever have I heard the word ''happiness''. Is there a Church Father who ever uttered that word? Joy and peace are the right words. So then if we combine this, if this is the core of your country and culture, is it any surprise that it became the monster it is today?
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
If we dissect this: ''these truths'' means subjectivity, whereas there is one objective Truth in Christ and his teachings. Furthermore, Satan wanted to be equal to God, so equality in itself is Satanic. Then, the idea of ''rights'' isn't Christian at all: you don't have any ''rights''. Then, these rights are liberty and happiness? Liberty of what, of sin? The only Christian understanding of liberty is the liberty to not commit sin, for that is slavery. But how it developed obviously liberty aka ''freedom'' came to be doing whatever sin you want and pushing it to the max. Then happiness is a total new age nonsense idea. Nowhere in a Christian text or lecture ever have I heard the word ''happiness''. Is there a Church Father who ever uttered that word? Joy and peace are the right words. So then if we combine this, if this is the core of your country and culture, is it any surprise that it became the monster it is today?
Did y'all know that there was a Anti-Masonic party in the US? Which was fairly influential, at least the third party early 19th century. Do we need any more on who has ran the US since the start (at least since the Jews hijacked a fair amount of influence)? When you dig into history it's truly amazin' to see how much people knew what was up, whether it's freemasonry, or what the Jews were up to with their world power schemes and -isms to introduce friction, discord and destruction of the local populaces.
,,
The Anti-Masonic Party, also known as the Anti-Masonic Movement, was the earliest third party in the United States.[12] Formally a single-issue party, it strongly opposed Freemasonry, but it later aspired to become a major party by expanding its platform to take positions on other issues. After emerging as a political force in the late 1820s, most of the Anti-Masonic Party's members joined the Whig Party in the 1830s and the party disappeared after 1838.
As many Masons were prominent businessmen and politicians, the backlash against the Masons was also a form of anti-elitism. The Anti-Masons purported that Masons posed a threat to American republicanism by secretly trying to take control of the government. Furthermore there was a strong fear that it was hostile to Christianity. Mass opposition to Masonry eventually coalesced into a political party.
en.wikipedia.org
,,
The Anti-Masonic Party, also known as the Anti-Masonic Movement, was the earliest third party in the United States.[12] Formally a single-issue party, it strongly opposed Freemasonry, but it later aspired to become a major party by expanding its platform to take positions on other issues. After emerging as a political force in the late 1820s, most of the Anti-Masonic Party's members joined the Whig Party in the 1830s and the party disappeared after 1838.
As many Masons were prominent businessmen and politicians, the backlash against the Masons was also a form of anti-elitism. The Anti-Masons purported that Masons posed a threat to American republicanism by secretly trying to take control of the government. Furthermore there was a strong fear that it was hostile to Christianity. Mass opposition to Masonry eventually coalesced into a political party.
Anti-Masonic Party - Wikipedia
I watched the video. Seems like a lot of other people on the dissident online right are coming to the same conclusions. Andrew Torba of Gab has called out the Founding Fathers saying they were Enlightment Deist Freemasons and that the Pilgrims instead should be seen as the true founders of the country. It's funny because a lot of the arguments being made by these dissident right wingers are the same ones that was being made by secular liberals when they would argue with normie conservatives when they would debate whether the United States is a Christian nation or not. These liberals would quote from the Founding Fathers the same the guy in the video is.
American has a stronger Christian culture then all the other Western countries. Many Europeans have commented on it and also mocked the US for not "moving on" like they have into a post-Christian society. At the same time, from the beginning the US was set up so there would be no state church and to be specifically secular. The ironic thing is that despite all of that Christian values still inform the way it's citizens behave more so than in European nations that still have state churches with priests and pastors that are classified as government employees and where Christianity is given special recognition by the state - even if these days it's mostly ceremonial.
The Nordic countries are usually pointed out as the prime example of secular post-Christian nations, the sort of country that the irreligious liberals of the US seek to emulate. Well these countries all had or currently have state churches and tax their citizens to support these churches that they never attend. Their flags all contain crosses that are specifically there to point to the Christian history of these nations and I believe in the case of Sweden there's even a law about how the king is required to be a Lutheran. Either Sweden or Norway has had or currently have laws that require a certain amount of their parliament to be members of the state church. England, another mostly secular nation is similar too in that it's flag specifically contains Christian symbols and it's population is paying to support the state church. I've heard about the experiences of English people in schools and it seems many of them still receive religious education in the schools they attend and some even still have to attend chapel. It does seem at least that more Brits hear about Christianity in school then Americans do.
Despite all of what I described above, it appears Christianity plays pretty much much no part in the culture of those nations despite having the power of the state upholding and promoting it. It's why a lot of the talk about establishing an Orthodox Christian kingdom in the west seems completely silly to me. If you want a nation where a good portion of it's citizens adhere to Christian values and use these values to inform their lives, it has to come from the bottom-up. Imposing it from above isn't going to bring about revival.
American has a stronger Christian culture then all the other Western countries. Many Europeans have commented on it and also mocked the US for not "moving on" like they have into a post-Christian society. At the same time, from the beginning the US was set up so there would be no state church and to be specifically secular. The ironic thing is that despite all of that Christian values still inform the way it's citizens behave more so than in European nations that still have state churches with priests and pastors that are classified as government employees and where Christianity is given special recognition by the state - even if these days it's mostly ceremonial.
The Nordic countries are usually pointed out as the prime example of secular post-Christian nations, the sort of country that the irreligious liberals of the US seek to emulate. Well these countries all had or currently have state churches and tax their citizens to support these churches that they never attend. Their flags all contain crosses that are specifically there to point to the Christian history of these nations and I believe in the case of Sweden there's even a law about how the king is required to be a Lutheran. Either Sweden or Norway has had or currently have laws that require a certain amount of their parliament to be members of the state church. England, another mostly secular nation is similar too in that it's flag specifically contains Christian symbols and it's population is paying to support the state church. I've heard about the experiences of English people in schools and it seems many of them still receive religious education in the schools they attend and some even still have to attend chapel. It does seem at least that more Brits hear about Christianity in school then Americans do.
Despite all of what I described above, it appears Christianity plays pretty much much no part in the culture of those nations despite having the power of the state upholding and promoting it. It's why a lot of the talk about establishing an Orthodox Christian kingdom in the west seems completely silly to me. If you want a nation where a good portion of it's citizens adhere to Christian values and use these values to inform their lives, it has to come from the bottom-up. Imposing it from above isn't going to bring about revival.
MusicForThePiano
Pelican
The US is not a Christian country for more reasons than what the guy in OPs video said. That being said, many of the first wave of people were Christian, and not a member of the Masons. The Catholics strongly opposed freemasonry for apparent reasons, and the Orthodox population that came in the mid-to-late 20th century also did partake of this heinous fraternity. Most of the members of the masons in the first world are of WASPy descent, with several hibernian and neapolitan sellouts amongst the ranks. It would even be difficult to say that there are parts of the US that are strongly Christian when there is a masonic lodge in every single town. Show me a country without these charnel houses and blasphemous ritual centers. Russia is the closest thing to a Christian country, but it allows a multi-ethnic multi-religious truce-like existence, which is rare, but no doubt the two biggest powers are the Orthodox church, and remnant soviet jewry in terms of finances, I suppose a third up-and-coming political power block would be the Chechnyans as an Islamic base who serve the Russian Federation. There really is no dominant Crusader Kingdom anymore like in the middle ages. The last European Christian Kingdom that had any dominance I believe was the Austrian Empire. Some parts of Africa are also very Christian, but they are not independent of white assistance, jewish usury, or Asian interference.
I wish for a new kingdom on this earth that is Christ-centric, and I think it would have to be carved out of the US between an alliance of Catholics and Orthodox, where masonry and intelligencia hold no sway. One can dream. A church can found a country, this has happened before.
I wish for a new kingdom on this earth that is Christ-centric, and I think it would have to be carved out of the US between an alliance of Catholics and Orthodox, where masonry and intelligencia hold no sway. One can dream. A church can found a country, this has happened before.
I have the same dream, made a small correction to the text for clarity.