Is there any merit to the anti-vaccine movement?

monster

Pelican
I don't know much about the anti-vaccine movement, but recently the anti-antivaccine (or rather, pro-vaccine) movement has been gaining a lot of traction. This makes me wonder if the anti-vaccine movement has any credibility?

The pro-vaccine movement is getting a lot of headlines mocking Jenny McCarthy and her stance. Of course, Jenny is easy to mock, not least because she is female. But these are all ad hominem arguements against her and always end up saying, "well because doctors say it's safe then it must be safe."

On the flip side, anyone who has ever criticized the status quo and standard practice of the medical establishment gets shamed for even questioning the medical authority because of course "doctors know best." This position is equally ridiculous and I know in my own case if I want to find out what's wrong with me I do my own research based on my hormonal panels, bloodwork etc and rarely listen to a doctor. I know others on here feel the same. Just because a bunch of people go to med school doesn't make them experts on everything and doesn't mean we shouldn't question Big Pharma.

So has anyone looked into the anti-vaccine movement and found it to be credible?
 

zigZag

Kingfisher
This movement came along because stupid people who know nothing about a subject are allowed to have strong opinions about said subject. Diseases that were extinct because of vaccines are now coming back. So answer is NO.
 

Days of Broken Arrows

Crow
Gold Member
zigZag said:
This movement came along because stupid people who know nothing about a subject are allowed to have strong opinions about said subject. Diseases that were extinct because of vaccines are now coming back. So answer is NO.
The one percent screwed with your money and your jobs! Now they're screwing with your health!

I'd go beyond the above statement. I don't think it's a coincidence that one of the most outspoken anti-vaccine advocates, Jenny McCarthy, was picked to be on one of the most popular talk shows, "The View."

My theory is the people that run this country want those old diseases like polio and measles to come back. McCarthy and others like her are not given a voice in the media by accident.

The people who run this country have almost succeeded in eliminating the middle class through their banking chicanery and outsourcing of jobs. The anti-vaccine movement, IMO, is a way they can make the United States a two-tier, rich/poor Third World country by toying with our health.
 

Saga

Woodpecker
The irony is that the present overuse of antibiotics (especially in the meat and dairy industries) poses a massive long-term health dilemma because it's gradually decreasing the treatment's effectiveness...yet this gets overlooked while vaccinations are rather prominently discouraged by people who have no earthly idea what they're talking about.
 

porscheguy

Ostrich
There's nothing credible about the anti-vaccine movement. Jenny McCrathy's kid is a retard because it gestated in a rancid, toxic womb that spent over a decade getting strange loads dumped in it.
 

Dr. Howard

Peacock
Gold Member
Ask the generation of Canadians and Americans (most are in their 90s now) that went through Polio about the anti-vaccine movement/if vaccines are worth the risk. (Hint: After watching their friends die and get crippled while waiting for a vaccine, my guess is they also think its bullshit)

If there is any risk, it is well outweighed by the rewards. Autism or whatever is claimed to be the effects are non transmissible whereas the diseases they prevent are.
 
Vaccine Court Awards Millions to Two Children With Autism

Government lawyers insisted that Emily had suffered neither a vaccine injury nor encephalopathy. But every alternative cause they suggested "made no sense, because she showed no signs of those things before that vaccination," Moller said.
Article here

Why a "vaccine court?" Vaccines are scary shit, and can fuck a kid up.
 

Dr. Howard

Peacock
Gold Member
Sawyer said:
Vaccine Court Awards Millions to Two Children With Autism

Government lawyers insisted that Emily had suffered neither a vaccine injury nor encephalopathy. But every alternative cause they suggested "made no sense, because she showed no signs of those things before that vaccination," Moller said.
Article here

Why a "vaccine court?" Vaccines are scary shit, and can fuck a kid up.
This is my point exactly.

Vaccines are scary shit, and can fuck A kid up

vs.

Small pox is scary shit, and can fuck an entire population up

A couple of disabled kids is worth not having a decimated population. If I were levied a tax for the 'victims of vaccines' fund/disability program I would happily pay.
 

Patriarch

Kingfisher
Gold Member
I thought the anti-vaccine movement had died. What's next? Carbs, protein and fat all cause disease. So let's bam food. That way, we will all starve to death before we get cancer.
 
I like to think the RVF is an educated bunch that knows about science, health, play a manly musical instrument like trombone, study law, how to fix a car, can bench press 425 x 20, and, of course, bang women left and right. But it's unlikely we're all such well-rounded, perfect men. This will be a more 'public service' post for those that are legitimately wondering about this anti-vaccine shit. For the OP, and anyone else on this boat, a very crude primer on the immune system and the extreme arrogance and ignorance of the anti-vaccine nuts.

I don't feel very emotionally invested in many topics, if any at all. I don't really care about religion, politics, w/e, even though those two big ones really do affect our lives. I guess I don't care about them because they're mostly ideologies and opinions subject to change.

Vaccinations were developed based on INDISPUTABLE FACTS. This is not some ideological topic like 'gay marriage,' 'gender disparity' or 'which supreme being do you worship.' Vaccines were developed because we learned how the immune system works. The concept is simple. Through millions of years of evolution, our immune system developed in such a way that when a new intruder comes in, our 'first response team' (innate) immune system breaks that intruder down into pieces, presents it to the 'adaptive' immune system, and this latter system 'remembers' what the intruder looked like so that it mounts a quicker response when the intruder decides to make a visit later on down the line.

Many vaccinations follow this simple logic… present the person with an attenuated or otherwise lesser, weaker, non-dangerous version of the corresponding pathogen, so the immune system sees it for that first time, but is not overwhelmed by it. Any other time that pathogen gets found in the wild, it's squashed by the powerful adaptive immune system that REMEMBERS the pathogen thanks to that evil doctor that injected you with that scary needle once upon a time.

Penn and Teller are not my favorite, and their argument is more based on statistics. But the theatrics are useful. If anyone would like a link to more of the science, just let me know.


Saga said:
The irony is that the present overuse of antibiotics (especially in the meat and dairy industries) poses a massive long-term health dilemma because it's gradually decreasing the treatment's effectiveness...yet this gets overlooked while vaccinations are rather prominently discouraged by people who have no earthly idea what they're talking about.
This is indeed more worrisome, as bacteria evolve much faster than we produce new antibiotics.



(That's right, from 2008-2012, we came up with a grand total of 2 new antibiotics, according to the CDC.)

I guess I should say this here… if you get prescribed antibiotics, FINISH THE TREATMENT. A common occurrence of bacteria evolving resistance is because a patient has not finished their complete antibiotic treatment because the patient feels better. However, this does not mean all bacteria have died or have been expelled. The more bacteria remain, the more likely they are to survive and potentially pick up genes, or mutate, in such a way that they'll be resistant to the now low, or non-existent, antibiotic. Many bacteria, including pathogens, have 'emergency response' systems where, under attack, they become promiscuous and just let any DNA into their system in the last ditch hopes of picking up a favorable chunk of DNA that will help them survive. Unfortunately, these desperate bacteria on the verge of death are the ones that are left over if an antibiotic treatment is not taken to completion, making it more likely they become resistant.

Just because a person feels better does not mean that person is fine. If a patient doesn't finish the treatment, they can become a public health hazard and inadvertently be responsible for many unnecessary deaths.

End of public service announcement.
 

xpatplayer

Kingfisher
Dr. Howard said:
Sawyer said:
Vaccine Court Awards Millions to Two Children With Autism

Government lawyers insisted that Emily had suffered neither a vaccine injury nor encephalopathy. But every alternative cause they suggested "made no sense, because she showed no signs of those things before that vaccination," Moller said.
Article here

Why a "vaccine court?" Vaccines are scary shit, and can fuck a kid up.
This is my point exactly.

Vaccines are scary shit, and can fuck A kid up

vs.

Small pox is scary shit, and can fuck an entire population up

A couple of disabled kids is worth not having a decimated population. If I were levied a tax for the 'victims of vaccines' fund/disability program I would happily pay.
Excellent reply. Penn and Teller made the same point in their TV show. They've demonstrated quite well (I can't speak for the figures though).

 

tarquin

Kingfisher
Gold Member
A friend of mine turned out to be extremely allergic to eggs and a vaccine would have given him serious and lifelong cognitive damages. His parents delayed vaccination until he was older and they then found out about his allergy, so it ended up working out for the best. It was a matter of complete luck.

Which makes me ask, is there any advantage to delaying vaccinations, or do advantages only exist to a few individuals when there is already herd immunity?
 

buja

Woodpecker
Vaccines are made by drug companies.
Pediatricians makes most of their money by vaccinating.

So the TV/mainstream media will not cover anything negative that happens as a result of the vaccines.

12 girls dropped dead in Texas after receiving the HPV vaccine that Governor Rick Perry ordered but you don't hear about it on the nightly news.

When someone gets the disease that they were vaccinated for...the news will not report it...but if an unvaccinated kid picks up whooping cough from a vaccinated kid, the media goes crazy and wants to vaccinate everyone.

In the 70s, Jonas Salk, inventor of the polio vaccine, testified before Congress that the only reason polio was still around was because of the vaccine.

Vaccinations were developed based on INDISPUTABLE FACTS
No, not all of them.

A lot of indisputable "medical science" is based on theories that that the public believe are facts because they are stated by authority figures like doctors (who did commercials in the 50s saying that cigarettes were not harmful in any way).

Most of the public believes that it is a FACT that "depression" is caused because some people can't make certain brain chemicals and they need to drug to help their body make those certain chemicals.

This is just theory...not a fact. But it sells a lot of drugs.

Measles.
Measles is generally a non-lethal disease. When the true causes of measles was discovered (a lack of Vitamin A and poor sanitation), measles all but disappeared. Then the drug companies made a measles "vaccine" and they took credit for eliminating measles.

So when ever someone gets measles...the cries out for more vaccinations and so the drug companies continually profit. Vaccines keep measles alive. The drug companies force governments to vaccines schools kids and the money keeps rolling in!

HPV
Because of pap smears, cervical cancer is not a major concern.
But the drug companies invent the HPV virus and a THEORY (not scientific proof) that HPV causes cervical cancer. I'm sure the drug companies will soon take credit for the reduction in cervical cancer...when they had nothing to do with it like measles.

I used to worship vaccinations (and many other 'truths') when I was a kid but I've overcome my government school indoctrination...at least I hope so.

There's a lot of BS that passes as INDISPUTABLE FACTS that the TV/Government Schools teach us...that aren't really true.

But everything I wrote is wrong because it wasn't on CNN and Fox News.
 
Glad to see people on this forum coming out strongly against this anti-vaccine bullshit.

Vaccines aren't perfect and there are certainly risks but they are vastly outweighed by the benefits. It's not even close.
 

Days of Broken Arrows

Crow
Gold Member
Bringing this around to the concept of game, has anyone seen the biography of Ian Dury, "Sex and Drugs and Rock and Roll?"

Dury, for those of you who don't know, was a UK punk rocker whose body was ravaged by polio when he was a kid growing up in the '40s (pre-vaccine). He couldn't use one of his arms and one of his legs and grew to be only 5 feet tall.

But...according to his biographers, the dude had serious game going on before he was even famous, which put off reviewers, but to me was the best part of his story (more here on all this).

If it's not on Netflix and you want to see it, message me and I'll send a link.
 
How many of you in the military take every shot they try to give you?

There are 49 doses of 14 vaccines recommended by age 6. Almost 50 shots by age 6. Is there a number any of you pro-vaccination people think would be too high? If it went to 100, would you ask any questions?
 
I personally distrust vaccines which are all too enthusiastically pushed on the populace by the government and pharmaceutical companies. I don't get a flu shot every year and I opt out of every most vaccinations.

I can't be 100% certain to know what's inside of them without making them myself. I acknowledge that the theory is sound - but I don't like putting extra microbes or bacteria in my body on purpose. Since trusting the government and society on how to get girls didn't work out for me, I'm wary of trusting them with vaccines.

I accept that I could be wrong and one day succumb to some disease for which there is a vaccine. But that is my cross to bear.

Wald
 
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