Is there one true Christian church?

Aboulia

Woodpecker
bucky said:
I more meant that it's confusing that God would allow such chaos, and that so many are convinced that their sect is the one true church. I suppose the former is subset of the problem of why God allows evil in the first place.

Why shouldn't God allow this chaos? For anything to be good, there must be an alternate state or states (evil). Therefore, God must allow this chaos IF there is to be any free will on earth at all. To disallow evil is to reduce humans to automatons. To force someone to choose the good against their will is hell to that person. So people are allowed to think whatever they like, however, they're not free from the consequences of the thoughts and decisions they make.

As for the "true church" issue, don't think too heavily into it. In the final judgement, what do you think God would care more about? Your personal character and behaviour, or the denomination you belong to?
 

Hermetic Seal

Kingfisher
Gold Member
I don't think any one, organizational church gets it "right," because all of them are staffed and run by humans who, though sanctified by the Spirit, aren't infallible. But I do think that any church - Catholic, Orthodox, Nondenominational - that adheres to scriptural orthodoxy is part of the capital-C Church.

I guess I'd be considered Protestant, though I dislike the term. I consider Catholic and Orthodox Christians my brethren, even if we disagree on some minutiae. Groups like the Mormon church and Jehovah's Witnesses are far from orthodox belief and on the whole I consider them to be cults.
 

debeguiled

Peacock
Gold Member
MichaelWitcoff said:
I also believe God is all-powerful, all-merciful, all-just, and absolutely perfect in all His ways and judgments, able to save or destroy anyone He sees fit for any reason He sees fit, and that it’s not for man to judge the salvation, or lack thereof, of any other person (or even ourselves).

Can I say Orthodoxy is the truth? Yes. Can I say everyone outside Orthodoxy is automatically condemned? No.

If you believe the first paragraph, then, based on the puniness of man's spiritual understanding, you can't really say that Orthodoxy is the truth, but only that you believe it to be the truth to the best of your understanding at this moment.

I don't think God is as concerned with intellectual theological consistency as man is.
 

Augustus_Principe

Woodpecker
Catholic & Orthodox since they were both were in communion with one another up until the Schism. As a Catholic, I say the Catholic Church is the one true church, but I am not knowledgeable enough on the subject yet to start a debate on it here. The more I read/watch on the subject however, the more i'm convinced Catholicism is True.However, I do hold respect for the Orthodox faith since again, their history was intertwined with Rome up until the Schism.

I would highly suggest people do their own research instead of reading what people have to say here. As I already saw, people here think they are more knowledgeable than Theologians and state things like "the RC church 'misinterpreted' XYZ" "Here's my interpretation instead" lol...

I really do not want to disrespect anyone of other Christian Denominations, but anything else other than Catholic/Orthodox is questionable. E Michael Jones has exposed Luther so I suggest reading/watching his material on that, or just read the history on that. One has to question why there are literally dozens of denominations, and why every Christian outside the Catholic/Orthodox church thinks their interpretation of the bible is the "correct" one(instead of a Church that's been around for 2000 years, with dozens of church fathers/doctors throughout history successfully arguing for the catholic faith and building upon it) enough to make a denomination out of it and gather followers. It always seemed strange to me, even before my return to Christ, from a historical standpoint.

Read what the Church Fathers/Doctors/Saints, who devoted their whole lives to Christ, Church and Study, had to say on the matter, not what some layman thinks a bible verse means.
 

Aboulia

Woodpecker
debeguiled said:
MichaelWitcoff said:
I also believe God is all-powerful, all-merciful, all-just, and absolutely perfect in all His ways and judgments, able to save or destroy anyone He sees fit for any reason He sees fit, and that it’s not for man to judge the salvation, or lack thereof, of any other person (or even ourselves).

Can I say Orthodoxy is the truth? Yes. Can I say everyone outside Orthodoxy is automatically condemned? No.

If you believe the first paragraph, then, based on the puniness of man's spiritual understanding, you can't really say that Orthodoxy is the truth, but only that you believe it to be the truth to the best of your understanding at this moment.

I don't think God is as concerned with intellectual theological consistency as man is.

If God doesn't care for consistency theologically, why would he care about behavioural consistency? If God doesn't care how we think and order the universe, why did Christ say in Matthew 5:27-28 if you have looked on a woman with lust you have committed adultery in your heart? God deeply cares about the organization of your mind, for one sin lead to the fall of man. (CS Lewis's Space Trilogy and Dostoevsky's Dream of a Ridiculous Man illustrate this well.)

If anyone wants to better understand an Orthodox view of reality, I suggest you watch this.

Jonathan Pageau - The Garden of Eden as Cosmic Structure - St-Ephrem the Syrian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXGdaJFIB8M
 

debeguiled

Peacock
Gold Member
Aboulia said:
debeguiled said:
MichaelWitcoff said:
I also believe God is all-powerful, all-merciful, all-just, and absolutely perfect in all His ways and judgments, able to save or destroy anyone He sees fit for any reason He sees fit, and that it’s not for man to judge the salvation, or lack thereof, of any other person (or even ourselves).

Can I say Orthodoxy is the truth? Yes. Can I say everyone outside Orthodoxy is automatically condemned? No.

If you believe the first paragraph, then, based on the puniness of man's spiritual understanding, you can't really say that Orthodoxy is the truth, but only that you believe it to be the truth to the best of your understanding at this moment.

I don't think God is as concerned with intellectual theological consistency as man is.

If God doesn't care for consistency theologically, why would he care about behavioural consistency? If God doesn't care how we think and order the universe, why did Christ say in Matthew 5:27-28 if you have looked on a woman with lust you have committed adultery in your heart? God deeply cares about the organization of your mind, for one sin lead to the fall of man. (CS Lewis's Space Trilogy and Dostoevsky's Dream of a Ridiculous Man illustrate this well.)

If anyone wants to better understand an Orthodox view of reality, I suggest you watch this.

Jonathan Pageau - The Garden of Eden as Cosmic Structure - St-Ephrem the Syrian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXGdaJFIB8M

You understand when you are talking to a child that he doesn't have to make sense in the same way an adult does. You don't care if he has followed all the logical paths of his hypotheses to their ultimate consequences because he is a child and you don't expect him to have the ability or the patience to figure things out on the level you do. So you judge him by lower standards and by his intentions.

God's view of behavior and reality is infinitely more complex than ours and so he is not judging us by the childlike theology we have developed. The sorts of allowances we make for children, he makes a billion-fold for us.

Think of what formal logic and Orthodox theology must look like from his vantage point. Like a kid finger painting.

Humans are blinded by the fact that we are not, that we know of, in the presence of any animals that exist on a higher plane than we do, and as a result we get full of ourselves and think that our meager knowledge base, and even more infantile skill set are as high as it goes, from the perspective of absolute truth.

If you really imagined what our inane babblings must look like from God's point of view, it would magnify your comprehension of God's ability to love us. Just think of all the information that we don't have, and yet we blunder forwards making hypotheses, coming to conclusions, all the while seeing only a tiny sliver of reality.

And on top of it, we think that our over matched schema are somehow as good as it gets, and truth with a capital t.

It's finger painting. So God is less concerned with our finger painting than we are.

This seems a reasonable way of looking at it.

We are Dufflepuds.

.
 

Wutang

Hummingbird
Gold Member
I actually made another post in another thread about this very topic. Here it is again:

Can the true church be spread out among different denominations? That's something I thought about myself. I heard a guy and a woman talking about their faiths one time at a cafe. The guy I'm guessing was Presbyterian since he was talking about how the Westminster Confession spells out his faith for him while the woman was a Catholic. The guy was big into his faith/denomination but even he said he thought there's lots of monks and nuns out that are more holy and in communion with God then he is.

There was a video that was posted in the God Pill thread where the minister talks about how even among 'carnal' churches there's still usually a small group of people who desire Christ and are on the right path. Are all these people across different churches part of the same true church even if they are in different buildings and perhaps even different denominations?

 
MichaelWitcoff said:
I believe that the Orthodox Church is the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church referenced in the Bible and the Nicene Creed.

The difficult part is when schisms happen. When we say we believe in one Church, we mean something different than a Roman Catholic does. Our unity isn't dependent on a specific hierarchy, which is what Catholics mean when they say "one true church."

The First Council of Constantinople, where the "one, holy, catholic, apostolic" part was added to the creed, was presided over by St. Meletius the Bishop of Antioch, who was not in communion with the Bishop of Rome. So the Fathers used the terms somewhat differently than they are often used now.

For us, divisions in the Church are how we preserve unity - if one Church is acting up, the other Churches began cutting off communion. And this helps to keep each of the Churches from going off the deep end. But some schisms seem to be quite complete without either side ceasing to be the Church.

Two good examples of our complicated ecclesiology are St. John of San Francisco and St. Isaac the Syrian. St. John was not in communion with my hierarchy during his lifetime, yet we venerate him as a saint. And St. Isaac's Church had been separated from Orthodoxy since the Theotokos controversy, but he is venerated by both his own Church and ours.

Clear denominational lines seem to be an invention of the Protestant reformation. Even centuries after the Great Schism the Orthodox Churches and Roman Church tried to find a way to return to Eucharistic communion, showing that they saw each other as errant Churches rather than not being Churches at all.

In the last century there was even some intercommunion in the US between the Episcopalians and the Orthodox, and although it was short-lived due to their Protestant theology, it shows that the Orthodox (or at least St. Raphael of Brooklyn) did not tie Church membership to a specific hierarchy.

I suppose it would be right to say there is no "one true Church" the way it's used in modern Christian apologetics, but there is one true Church. The book Eucharist, Bishop, Church makes some sense of this ecclesiology.
 
@Wutang
Indeed. There is the true church in many institutions of such. However God saw fit to not make it so obvious as an institution. Else there would be a single recognizable institution that never divides.
 

Kid Twist

Hummingbird
Yes, that's what is now known as the communion of eastern orthodox churches. All historical, recognizable, and unchanged in doctrine and practice from the beginning. No one else can say that, and only the oriental orthodox churches are equivalent; economia could easily reduce chalcedon to being a doctrinal misunderstanding, which most agree on at this point but for historical or current political reasons, isn't pressing for either of the groups.
 

Aboulia

Woodpecker
debeguiled said:
Aboulia said:
debeguiled said:
MichaelWitcoff said:
I also believe God is all-powerful, all-merciful, all-just, and absolutely perfect in all His ways and judgments, able to save or destroy anyone He sees fit for any reason He sees fit, and that it’s not for man to judge the salvation, or lack thereof, of any other person (or even ourselves).

Can I say Orthodoxy is the truth? Yes. Can I say everyone outside Orthodoxy is automatically condemned? No.

If you believe the first paragraph, then, based on the puniness of man's spiritual understanding, you can't really say that Orthodoxy is the truth, but only that you believe it to be the truth to the best of your understanding at this moment.

I don't think God is as concerned with intellectual theological consistency as man is.

If God doesn't care for consistency theologically, why would he care about behavioural consistency? If God doesn't care how we think and order the universe, why did Christ say in Matthew 5:27-28 if you have looked on a woman with lust you have committed adultery in your heart? God deeply cares about the organization of your mind, for one sin lead to the fall of man. (CS Lewis's Space Trilogy and Dostoevsky's Dream of a Ridiculous Man illustrate this well.)

If anyone wants to better understand an Orthodox view of reality, I suggest you watch this.

Jonathan Pageau - The Garden of Eden as Cosmic Structure - St-Ephrem the Syrian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXGdaJFIB8M

You understand when you are talking to a child that he doesn't have to make sense in the same way an adult does. You don't care if he has followed all the logical paths of his hypotheses to their ultimate consequences because he is a child and you don't expect him to have the ability or the patience to figure things out on the level you do. So you judge him by lower standards and by his intentions.

God's view of behavior and reality is infinitely more complex than ours and so he is not judging us by the childlike theology we have developed. The sorts of allowances we make for children, he makes a billion-fold for us.

Think of what formal logic and Orthodox theology must look like from his vantage point. Like a kid finger painting.

Humans are blinded by the fact that we are not, that we know of, in the presence of any animals that exist on a higher plane than we do, and as a result we get full of ourselves and think that our meager knowledge base, and even more infantile skill set are as high as it goes, from the perspective of absolute truth.

If you really imagined what our inane babblings must look like from God's point of view, it would magnify your comprehension of God's ability to love us. Just think of all the information that we don't have, and yet we blunder forwards making hypotheses, coming to conclusions, all the while seeing only a tiny sliver of reality.

And on top of it, we think that our over matched schema are somehow as good as it gets, and truth with a capital t.

It's finger painting. So God is less concerned with our finger painting than we are.

This seems a reasonable way of looking at it.

Yes, God will take into account our weakness, and feebleness of mind, and if we don't come to the truth due to no fault of our own, it won't be held against us, No Orthodox Christian would ever dispute this. We are held accountable for what we could change, but chose not to.

You' would only be right, IF, theology had no effect on how we act. Our understanding of God is of utmost importance in how we act in relation to him, and in relation to others, for it is as Christ said, "if you have done it to the least of these, you have done it to me". You cannot create arbitrary separations between things, in the Orthodox view, everything is connected.


To reject this would eventually lead to nihilism.

Theology without practice is the theology of demons - St Maximus the Confessor

But judging by your post, what we can agree on, is that the struggle to improve, and to come closer to embodying Christ(provided your conception of him is correct) is more important than what we write on paper. And that simply "belonging" to one congregation or another doesn't mean you belong to the true church. Christ says this explicitly when he says to those that there will be some that say to him "Lord Lord have we not done X and Y in your name" and he'll reply "Depart from me, for I never knew you".
 

scorpion

Ostrich
Gold Member
The one true church is the totality of faithful believers in Jesus Christ as Messiah. That is the church. Any earthly organization claiming to be the "one true church" to the exclusion of the many others that proclaim the faithful and true gospel of Jesus Christ is in error. The Catholic and Orthodox churches essentially proclaim themselves as earthly clubs that have a monopoly on salvation. They will protest this simplification, but if you read between the lines that's basically what they both say: if you are outside the church you are not a real Christian.

The reality is that the church is a heavenly club, not an earthly one. The church is composed of those God predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son through faith (Eph. 1: 4-5). Membership in the heavenly club has nothing to do with one's affiliation with any particular earthly club. To insist otherwise I believe does insult to God, as if he somehow requires the work of men to achieve any part of the salvation he has delivered and which he has planned since before the foundation of the universe.

A true Christian is defined more than anything else by an overriding attitude of humility, a humility born out of a deep understanding of his inborn sin nature and his inability to save himself. The true Christian is literally set free by the gospel, the "good news": that Christ died an atoning death so that sinful man might be reconciled to God. Once fully understood and internalized, this truth overwhelms the soul. One can be filled with nothing but gratitude, love and awe for the infinite God who chose to adopt so many flawed human beings as sons and joint heirs of Christ. Thus overwhelmed by the good news of salvation, the true Christian is filled with joy and the desire to proclaim the glory of God to others, that they might also partake in the good news. That is what true Christians were busy doing since the resurrection. That is the work of the true church: proclaiming Jesus Christ to the world.

Many Catholic and Orthodox seem to have lost sight of this. They miss the forest for the trees. They get caught up in their church itself and its teachings rather than keeping the glory of God foremost in their minds. The church itself becomes almost an idol. This is not to say that I believe Catholic and Orthodox are not faithful Christians. I just think they injure their faith by placing such heavy emphasis on the earthly church rather than the heavenly church. Also, the insistence that one belongs to the "true church" is almost invariably coupled with a prideful attitude, which was exemplified by Aurini and Bosch, both of whom could barely contain their contempt for Protestants in their posts. I will be very frank: if there is even a trace of pride that comes out of your mouth when discussing spiritual matters, then there is something wrong with your doctrine or your faith. You are missing something fundamental in your understanding of Jesus Christ. This was God who took on human flesh, who washed the feet of his disciples and hung around with prostitutes, tax collectors and lepers, and who died ignominiously on a cross. Christ himself was the antithesis of pride, so anyone who pridefully sneers at the sincere faith of other Christians must seriously consider their conduct and their understanding, for their behavior is extremely unlike Christ.

And finally, at the end of the day, I think it should be obvious that God knows exactly what he is doing. He has clearly guided the history of the Christian faith. The schism was ordained by God, as was the Reformation. We know this because they happened. They are part of the plan that will bring the greatest glory to God when all is said and done. God's work is far greater than any single human organization can contain. No single collection of men in robes has a monopoly on the blood of Jesus Christ, which was shed for all who believe. That is no single organization's truth to own. It is the truth which exists outside of anything men have done through the ages. A truth born not of men, but of God.
 

bucky

Ostrich
scorpion said:
The one true church is the totality of faithful believers in Jesus Christ as Messiah. That is the church. Any earthly organization claiming to be the "one true church" to the exclusion of the many others that proclaim the faithful and true gospel of Jesus Christ is in error. The Catholic and Orthodox churches essentially proclaim themselves as earthly clubs that have a monopoly on salvation. They will protest this simplification, but if you read between the lines that's basically what they both say: if you are outside the church you are not a real Christian.

The reality is that the church is a heavenly club, not an earthly one. The church is composed of those God predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son through faith (Eph. 1: 4-5). Membership in the heavenly club has nothing to do with one's affiliation with any particular earthly club. To insist otherwise I believe does insult to God, as if he somehow requires the work of men to achieve any part of the salvation he has delivered and which he has planned since before the foundation of the universe.

A true Christian is defined more than anything else by an overriding attitude of humility, a humility born out of a deep understanding of his inborn sin nature and his inability to save himself. The true Christian is literally set free by the gospel, the "good news": that Christ died an atoning death so that sinful man might be reconciled to God. Once fully understood and internalized, this truth overwhelms the soul. One can be filled with nothing but gratitude, love and awe for the infinite God who chose to adopt so many flawed human beings as sons and joint heirs of Christ. Thus overwhelmed by the good news of salvation, the true Christian is filled with joy and the desire to proclaim the glory of God to others, that they might also partake in the good news. That is what true Christians were busy doing since the resurrection. That is the work of the true church: proclaiming Jesus Christ to the world.

Many Catholic and Orthodox seem to have lost sight of this. They miss the forest for the trees. They get caught up in their church itself and its teachings rather than keeping the glory of God foremost in their minds. The church itself becomes almost an idol. This is not to say that I believe Catholic and Orthodox are not faithful Christians. I just think they injure their faith by placing such heavy emphasis on the earthly church rather than the heavenly church. Also, the insistence that one belongs to the "true church" is almost invariably coupled with a prideful attitude, which was exemplified by Aurini and Bosch, both of whom could barely contain their contempt for Protestants in their posts. I will be very frank: if there is even a trace of pride that comes out of your mouth when discussing spiritual matters, then there is something wrong with your doctrine or your faith. You are missing something fundamental in your understanding of Jesus Christ. This was God who took on human flesh, who washed the feet of his disciples and hung around with prostitutes, tax collectors and lepers, and who died ignominiously on a cross. Christ himself was the antithesis of pride, so anyone who pridefully sneers at the sincere faith of other Christians must seriously consider their conduct and their understanding, for their behavior is extremely unlike Christ.

And finally, at the end of the day, I think it should be obvious that God knows exactly what he is doing. He has clearly guided the history of the Christian faith. The schism was ordained by God, as was the Reformation. We know this because they happened. They are part of the plan that will bring the greatest glory to God when all is said and done. God's work is far greater than any single human organization can contain. No single collection of men in robes has a monopoly on the blood of Jesus Christ, which was shed for all who believe. That is no single organization's truth to own. It is the truth which exists outside of anything men have done through the ages. A truth born not of men, but of God.

Very interesting post, and I hope you're right, not that what I hope affects reality. I'm interested in your views on predestination, because I know very little about the idea: what precisely it means, what the scriptural basis for it is. Although that's probably a topic for another thread.
 

Kid Twist

Hummingbird
Circular logic. How do you know the truth about God unless someone guides you, someone who is trustworthy? I'll channel my inner Ethiopian Eunuch, the one that protestants must be so displeased with for asking such an obvious question.

No one said any group had a monopoly on anything. You did.

We hold to what has been revealed to us so that we maintain the truth, as it is our responsiblity to do so with such a gift, and hopefully so that others don't fall into error.

Saying that errors were ordained by God is like saying he ordained my sins. That is an example of dangerous, erroneous teaching. Does he work through our errors to keep calling us towards himself? Of course. But if you don't have this understanding, worse things might befall you.

And by the way, what gives you the authority to speak about the "membership in the heavenly club"? Just wondering.
 

scorpion

Ostrich
Gold Member
Kid Twist said:
And by the way, what gives you the authority to speak about the "membership in the heavenly club"? Just wondering.

I have no authority, I'm simply relaying the message of the New Testament, which speaks with the full authority of God himself, and which is very clear: that the kingdom of God is not of this world (John 18:36), and that all who believe in Jesus Christ as Messiah will be the adopted sons of God and joint heirs of Christ in that kingdom (Romans 8:28-30), and that God predestined Christians to be called into the kingdom and adopted in this manner before he created the world itself (Eph. 1:4-5).

This is the fundamental error of this "one church" ideology: you think it's about you. You think it's about your church, as if your church has somehow pleased God and gained his favor. But it's not about you. It's not about how great your church is. It's not about us. Any of us. The world was not created for us. It was created for the glory of God. Your salvation was a gift of God, because in granting salvation to sinful creatures God puts his love and mercy on display. The entire point of everything - why does anything exist? - is to demonstrate the glory of God. We are simply the witnesses and the beneficiaries of his glory, now and in eternity to come. It's why we exist. We didn't do anything special to deserve this, nor can we ever. It was simply given to us, God having granted us this gift before the foundation of the world, before it was even possible for us to deserve it. Which is why overwhelming humility and gratitude are the unmistakable marks of true Christian faith.

Therefore the idea that a particular collection of men in robes has special claim to the eternal truth and glory of the most high God who created the universe from nothing is foolishness and utter hubris. It reveals a conception of God that is far too limited, as well as a lack of familiarity with the fundamental teachings of the Scriptures.
 

Roosh

Cardinal
The Catholic and Orthodox churches essentially proclaim themselves as earthly clubs that have a monopoly on salvation.

I can't speak for the Catholics, but the Orthodox church does not come close to proclaiming this. They go out of their way to say that not only Orthodox will be saved, and the church does wish that ALL will be saved, meaning to also pray for non-Orthodox. When you go to an Orthodox monastery, there is a form you can fill out to list names of "non-Orthodox" for them to pray for. I could list your name and they would pray for your salvation.

The "one true church" meme often comes from excited converts to Orthodoxy.
 

scorpion

Ostrich
Gold Member
Roosh said:
I can't speak for the Catholics, but the Orthodox church does not come close to proclaiming this. They go out of their way to say that not only Orthodox will be saved, and the church does wish that ALL will be saved, meaning to also pray for non-Orthodox. When you go to an Orthodox monastery, there is a form you can fill out to list names of "non-Orthodox" for them to pray for. I could list your name and they would pray for your salvation.

The "one true church" meme often comes from excited converts to Orthodoxy.

I agree this stems mostly from militant Catholics and recent Orthodox converts. I have seen that sort of arrogant tone from some posters popping up on the forum lately, essentially insinuating that Orthodox are the only true Christians. I think an actual devout Orthodox Christian not only understands this is not true, but knows that even if it were the correct attitude would be to attempt to shepherd other Christians into the flock of the Orthodox church in order that they might enjoy the benefits of a more complete earthly communion with Christ and his church.

Ultimately, I think there is far too much interdenominational squabbling and fights over specific interpretation of doctrine, as if God somehow expects every layman to have a profound knowledge of spiritual matters. In reality, all he asks is faith in Christ. That's the only ticket that ultimately matters. Is your faith in Christ genuine? If it is, everything else will fall into place. Doctrinal differences and differing interpretations of Scripture pale in comparison to the importance of uniting in the proclamation of Christ as Lord. God is working actively and effectively through all of the various denominations, from the globohomo converged Catholics to the humble Orthodox to the Zionist-shill Protestants. There are true Christians in ALL of these churches to a greater or lesser extent, Christians God is working through and whom God will raise up on the last day. To deny this is to deny the power of God to accomplish his sovereign plan of delivering salvation by faith to all who believe, a plan which is so important and all-encompassing that it pre-dates creation itself.
 
The Protestant/Lutheran Church was created because Martin Luther wanted to go back to the "original" Christian teachings and only use the words of the Bible. He thought that the Catholic Church had become corrupted along the way and its teachings had strayed too far from those of Jesus Christ.

But as has already been said, most churches believe their church to be the true church. Personally I don't care. I follow God in my own way and I take teachings from Christians, Buddhists, philosophers and scientists alike. Take what I agree with and disregard the rest.

A church with a specific set of principles and hard rules is a good tool to keep the people educated on a certain set of values. It is a great way to keep people together as one people with a shared culture and belief system. It'd say it's even crucial for the survival of that nation or group of people. A shared set of beliefs is what's best for a society. What is right for you as a free thinking individual however, may not be the same. You should seek truth wherever you may find it in the world. But at the same time understand that this isn't a feasible strategy to impose on the majority of the population.
 

Roosh

Cardinal
Ultimately, I think there is far too much interdenominational squabbling and fights over specific interpretation of doctrine

There will be an update in the rules around November 1 to address this on the forum.
 
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