Islamists behead Frenchman in Grenoble

[Sonsowey]

Just because some feeble conservative opposition is allowed to march peacefully, just because the German Flag is not yet banned as hateful, does not mean that anything will reverse.

Their flag was banned, along with connected symbols and even hand gestures. Don't worry, the U.S. will be there within 5-10 years anyway.

I'm aware much of the readership here holds a pessimistic worldview and perhaps even hopes for a collapse in the West, but there's little evidence suggesting our fate is sealed. History is brimming with examples of Europe rising from the ashes in the shittiest of situations, while there are no examples of Europe ever being fully conquered by invading foreigners. I don't think your opinion takes into account:

1. The establishment (government, the wealthy, corporations) benefits from the status quo, not from unrest and change. Protests and demonstrations lead to shifts in political power, and with enough pressure, can lead to revolts, riots, and revolutions. No country or system on earth is invincible, and the establishment will quickly shift gears if threatened.

2. Demographic trends (which most of the doom and gloom seems to be based on) don't take into account the possibility of change. Birth rates will not continue on an infinite trajectory. What happens if EU governments start offering to pay immigrants to return (a very real possibility in the Netherlands), or when home countries are more attractive than Europe?

3. If unrest grows, the wealthy and educated Muslims will return to their home countries. The Jewish population in France is a perfect example of repatriation due to fear. Shaming and violence by natives (e.g. mosque burning) will cause others to leave. Even in less dramatic circumstances, demand to enter Europe will likely decrease.

4. Political parties and nationalist/identitarian groups are sprouting up all over Europe and gaining power. Multiculturalism was abandoned by Holland several years ago, Hungary decided to stop accepting refugees, etc. Small steps, but with very tangible results.

We live in peace and prosperity, it's all we know. We've been taught from birth our system - along with "human rights" and government policies - are permanent and invincible. History proves the opposite. As long as there are Europeans on earth with breath in their lungs, the game is not over.

Blick I would make these simple predictions for the next, say, 20 years:

1. Muslim immigration to Europe continues.
2. Muslim birth rates remain higher than European birthrates.
3. European governments will take no actions that actually have the effect of making Muslims leave Europe.
4. Any nominal efforts to increase European birth rates will have a modest and insufficient effects at best.
5. More accommodations will be made for Muslims in Europe while more restrictions will be made on criticizing them.
6. Jihadis violence will continue and become normalized.

If you think these things won't happen, it will be interesting to look in 5 years, 10 years, and see where we are.

 

[almohajem]

The questions that are rarely asked in regards to Muslim immigrants in Europe:

- Why are certain European countries letting these people in?
- Would Europeans be welcome in these immigrants' home countries and societies the way they are in theirs?
- What gives the multiculturalists the right to dictate that the majority is bad and that they're immoral if they do not admit these people?

This is the secret. I've said much of this to European friends and their minds have actually changed on the immigration issue.
Point out all the violations of the social contract that routinely occur, that these countries see no moral reason to have open borders, that no other advanced countries (japan, south korea) see any reason to, and finally that Europe is seen as racist for ever restricting immigration.

Altruistic Punishment is the way out. Europeans are too altruistic for their own good, but altruistic societies tend to punish people who don't reciprocate.

Interestingly, the EU requires VISA for all the Arab/Muslim world and have strict security clearance. While the two countries that you mentioned doesn't require a VISA.

It's never a VISA/Immigration thing. These countries are 1. close and 2. have a large population of immigration. They'll always attract immigrants from all kind because it's easier to blend there. (speak the language, find friend, faster travel etc )

 

[Eskhander]

To piggyback the conversation between Blick and Sonsowey.
I think it will vary by country.

What I think will happen is native Europeans will cluster in more "pro-white" (best term I can think of) countries.
The demographic profiles of younger Europeans lean more nationalistic according to the Economist so I would not be shocked if both sides consolidate before deciding to settle things.

I don't actually think Europe is lost. My mind can be changed and things will get worse before they get better but they have to get worse.
Western Europe has the highest standard of living in the world, people are not ready to fight because complacency is rewarded.
When welfare collapses due to social trust dying, when whole parts of countries have white flight then things will happen.

Or not.
If not, I am going to China or Japan to tell them What Not To Do.

 

[Eskhander]

The questions that are rarely asked in regards to Muslim immigrants in Europe:

- Why are certain European countries letting these people in?
- Would Europeans be welcome in these immigrants' home countries and societies the way they are in theirs?
- What gives the multiculturalists the right to dictate that the majority is bad and that they're immoral if they do not admit these people?

This is the secret. I've said much of this to European friends and their minds have actually changed on the immigration issue.
Point out all the violations of the social contract that routinely occur, that these countries see no moral reason to have open borders, that no other advanced countries (japan, south korea) see any reason to, and finally that Europe is seen as racist for ever restricting immigration.

Altruistic Punishment is the way out. Europeans are too altruistic for their own good, but altruistic societies tend to punish people who don't reciprocate.

Interestingly, the EU requires VISA for all the Arab/Muslim world and have strict security clearance. While the two countries that you mentioned doesn't require a VISA.

It's never a VISA/Immigration thing. These countries are 1. close and 2. have a large population of immigration. They'll always attract immigrants from all kind because it's easier to blend there. (speak the language, find friend, faster travel etc )

Good point. I should say: effectively open borders.

 

[almohajem]

Just because some feeble conservative opposition is allowed to march peacefully, just because the German Flag is not yet banned as hateful, does not mean that anything will reverse.

Their flag was banned, along with connected symbols and even hand gestures. Don't worry, the U.S. will be there within 5-10 years anyway.

I'm aware much of the readership here holds a pessimistic worldview and perhaps even hopes for a collapse in the West, but there's little evidence suggesting our fate is sealed. History is brimming with examples of Europe rising from the ashes in the shittiest of situations, while there are no examples of Europe ever being fully conquered by invading foreigners. I don't think your opinion takes into account:

1. The establishment (government, the wealthy, corporations) benefits from the status quo, not from unrest and change. Protests and demonstrations lead to shifts in political power, and with enough pressure, can lead to revolts, riots, and revolutions. No country or system on earth is invincible, and the establishment will quickly shift gears if threatened.

2. Demographic trends (which most of the doom and gloom seems to be based on) don't take into account the possibility of change. Birth rates will not continue on an infinite trajectory. What happens if EU governments start offering to pay immigrants to return (a very real possibility in the Netherlands), or when home countries are more attractive than Europe?

3. If unrest grows, the wealthy and educated Muslims will return to their home countries. The Jewish population in France is a perfect example of repatriation due to fear. Shaming and violence by natives (e.g. mosque burning) will cause others to leave. Even in less dramatic circumstances, demand to enter Europe will likely decrease.

4. Political parties and nationalist/identitarian groups are sprouting up all over Europe and gaining power. Multiculturalism was abandoned by Holland several years ago, Hungary decided to stop accepting refugees, etc. Small steps, but with very tangible results.

We live in peace and prosperity, it's all we know. We've been taught from birth our system - along with "human rights" and government policies - are permanent and invincible. History proves the opposite. As long as there are Europeans on earth with breath in their lungs, the game is not over.

Blick I would make these simple predictions for the next, say, 20 years:

1. Muslim immigration to Europe continues.
2. Muslim birth rates remain higher than European birthrates.
3. European governments will take no actions that actually have the effect of making Muslims leave Europe.
4. Any nominal efforts to increase European birth rates will have a modest and insufficient effects at best.
5. More accommodations will be made for Muslims in Europe while more restrictions will be made on criticizing them.
6. Jihadis violence will continue and become normalized.

If you think these things won't happen, it will be interesting to look in 5 years, 10 years, and see where we are.

They already made the predictions: http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/jan/28/muslim-population-country-projection-2030

 

[Lord Tito]

The best part is that no matter what happens, the leftist fucks will get their comeuppance, either at the hands of the "fascists" they despise or the Islamists/immigrants they adore. Heads they lose, tails we win.

I think you will find that it is the very leftists whom you despise, who are at the forefront of the fighting against the very same Islamo-fascists, wreaking havoc in the Middle East who are incidentally backed by various right wing governments.

 

[Galahad]

I'll then need to fly as far as Hong Kong or Australia.

You should check out ISIS and Australia first.

Europe will not fail that easy, its like pressure and counter pressure. Some countries will struggle more then others. Eastern Europe is free of muslims and Germany has less problems then other countries.
Many countries drift back and society is quite different then some cultural marxist. It will be hard, maybe it will fail but Europe will not be lost that easy.
I believe in a new dawn of Europe and it will awake.

 

[DjembaDjemba]

I think you will find that it is the very leftists whom you despise, who are at the forefront of the fighting against the very same Islamo-fascists, wreaking havoc in the Middle East who are incidentally backed by various right wing governments.

It's ironic and absolutely true. The cultural left with the help of multinational corporations who put women in the workplace if they're qualified have wreaked far more havoc on the religious right in the middle east than any social conservative. That's what's happened in places like Dubai, Qatar, Kuwait, and Bahrain. The locals have very reluctantly accepted western women in the workplace by the Western multinationals who operate there. They've even set up safe zones where westerners can do the same stuff we do here, get drunk, pickup chicks, etc.

In reality social conservatives in the West, and islamists across the globe are both fighting against what they perceive as degeneracy, against cultural change, against changes to ethno and religious cultural centrism, and a slew of other social isms.

In fact social liberals have been chipping away at middle eastern and African ethnocentric culture for a long time and if you read outside the echo chamber of conservative blogs you'll notice this.

 

[Saga]

I think you will find that it is the very leftists whom you despise, who are at the forefront of the fighting against the very same Islamo-fascists, wreaking havoc in the Middle East who are incidentally backed by various right wing governments.

Point taken, but leftists in the Middle East are of a very different stripe than the SJW types that predominate in the western left...I object to a lot of their Marxism and/or left-wing nationalism, but it has nothing to do with what you hear from western leftists. For instance I think about figures like Nasser whose blistering nationalist rhetoric and sabre-rattling would cause a western SJW to hyperventilate from shock.

That aside, the Shia militias defending Baghdad are far from leftist...and unless I'm mistaken the same can be said of the Kurdish autonomous authority in Iraq. The Middle East is a mess, it's not a clear left vs right situation by any means.

 

[Sonsowey]

Article on the continuing huge level of migration from Africa and the Mid East to the EU:

"Across the European Union, 57 percent of residents express negative attitudes about immigration from outside the EU. Naturally, elected politicians take the popular view and promise sharp reductions in immigration. And yet, the reductions never come, because the EU has encoded refugee rights into laws and treaties that cannot easily be changed. As a result, migrants have enormous incentives to present themselves as refugees. In turn, those European elites who favor higher levels of migration pretend to believe them. Altogether, the realities of trans-Mediterranean immigration are thus tightly swaddled in lies."

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/07/closing-european-harbors/395321/

 

[Ziltoid]

Cue Mikado in 3...2...1...

 

[Eusebius]

Eastern Europe is free of muslims and Germany has less problems then other countries.
Many countries drift back and society is quite different then some cultural marxist. It will be hard, maybe it will fail but Europe will not be lost that easy.
I believe in a new dawn of Europe and it will awake.

Yes, there is still some hope. There are countries like Hungary, with almost no Muslims, and where the majority of the public support the proposed fence to keep out illegals from the Balkans. (I don't think the fence is a great solution, but at least its support shows some will).

Unfortunately small countries like Hungary can be leaned on by the EU and things can change rapidly. But overall, all is not lost yet.

 

[Bazzwaldo]

I think you will find that it is the very leftists whom you despise, who are at the forefront of the fighting against the very same Islamo-fascists, wreaking havoc in the Middle East who are incidentally backed by various right wing governments.

It's ironic and absolutely true. The cultural left with the help of multinational corporations who put women in the workplace if they're qualified have wreaked far more havoc on the religious right in the middle east than any social conservative. That's what's happened in places like Dubai, Qatar, Kuwait, and Bahrain. The locals have very reluctantly accepted western women in the workplace by the Western multinationals who operate there. They've even set up safe zones where westerners can do the same stuff we do here, get drunk, pickup chicks, etc.

In reality social conservatives in the West, and islamists across the globe are both fighting against what they perceive as degeneracy, against cultural change, against changes to ethno and religious cultural centrism, and a slew of other social isms.

In fact social liberals have been chipping away at middle eastern and African ethnocentric culture for a long time and if you read outside the echo chamber of conservative blogs you'll notice this.

I agree with most of your commentary DjembaDjemba
My 2 cents worth, I reckon the glogalisation formers ie Bankers, Multinational Corporations encourage this sort of action (Terrorist Extremism) and reaction (Nationalism)
The more I think about it, I feel we're being played like a fiddle!
Jumping up and down in acrimony over the "common enemy" gives those who feel threatened by outsiders (Nationalists),…(plus not interested in the Kardashians), a vent, and ditto for the extremists, the justification needed to follow their moral crusade and blow things up
It appears that bigger political games are afoot and this is the current distraction for the righteous minded to denounce
The new world order will see one governing body with the elite already chosen, and we the unwashed, their servants.
And still the Kardashians will entertain us with their narcissistic fatuousness

 

[Foolsgo1d]

If you are worried about ISIS, look no further than Syria. It's well-known and propagated that Syria is the Arab world hope at the moment.

If Syria defeats ISIS, they'll be gone forever. They are already defeated in Egypt and Tunisia. If ISIS defeats Syria, a whole other scenario will emerge. Iraq, and Liban are probably their first target and will be at their mercy. Followed by Libya, Egypt, Tunisia and Algeria. They are already too strong in Morocco too and have political power there.

I'll then need to fly as far as Hong Kong or Australia.

Syria will not beat ISIS without significant Russian and US military support. Assad is losing ground to both ISIS and Nusra and the ground they take becomes scorched Earth.

ISIS as an entity is doing well. When it is pressured on one or two fronts it opens up more and believes in a good offense as the best defense. They're taking the opportunity with these suicide attacks like in Kobani to murder as many people as possible before dying.

ISIS will only suffer true defeat once it runs out of bodies but then a new ideology front will take up the baton and the whole cycle begins again.

 

[Lizard King]

It is no coincidence that most Islamic attacks on Western soil are committed by Salafi/Wahhabi Muslims. A sect of Islam considered almost heretic by other more orthodox/traditional sects.

There will be some crossover here and there, but generally the violence predominantly comes from this section of Islam.

The influence is widely documented. Steve Coll's Ghost Wars is somewhat of a benchmark on the hows and whys(Afghan nationalists were fighting Salafi/Wahhabi Taliban for control of the country).

Here is some more recent writing on it http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4355/salafi-jihadists-threat

Citing this paper http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR637.html

Abstract

This report examines the status and evolution of al Qa'ida and other Salafi-jihadist groups, a subject of intense debate in the West. Based on an analysis of thousands of primary source documents, the report concludes that there has been an increase in the number of Salafi-jihadist groups, fighters, and attacks over the past several years. The author uses this analysis to build a framework for addressing the varying levels of threat in different countries, from engagement in high-threat, low government capacity countries; to forward partnering in medium-threat, limited government capacity environments; to offshore balancing in countries with low levels of threat and sufficient government capacity to counter Salafi-jihadist groups.

Key Findings

The number of Salafi-jihadist groups and fighters increased after 2010, as well as the number of attacks perpetrated by al Qa'ida and its affiliates.
Examples include groups operating in Tunisia, Algeria, Mali, Libya, Egypt (including the Sinai Peninsula), Lebanon, and Syria.
These trends suggest that the United States needs to remain focused on countering the proliferation of Salafi-jihadist groups, which have started to resurge in North Africa and the Middle East, despite the temptations to shift attention and resources to the strategic "rebalance" to the Asia-Pacific region and to significantly decrease counterterrorism budgets in an era of fiscal constraint.

 

[Glaucon]

Yes, there is still some hope. There are countries like Hungary, with almost no Muslims, and where the majority of the public support the proposed fence to keep out illegals from the Balkans. (I don't think the fence is a great solution, but at least its support shows some will).

Haha, Hungary is a fucking shithole. I hate that place. Born and lived there for 29 years, after that Austria is like paradise.
People born in the western world cannot comprehend how hopeless that place is....

 

[infowarrior1]

Some hot Iranian girls in Tehran for your viewing pleasure, and of course WB.

The problem with modernisation is the importation of western degeneracy

Can we have a strong patriarchal and socially healthy society as well as technologically advanced countries instead of having to choose between the backwardness on one hand and degeneracy and trans-bullshit on the other hand?

 

[infowarrior1]

If you are worried about ISIS, look no further than Syria. It's well-known and propagated that Syria is the Arab world hope at the moment.

If Syria defeats ISIS, they'll be gone forever. They are already defeated in Egypt and Tunisia. If ISIS defeats Syria, a whole other scenario will emerge. Iraq, and Liban are probably their first target and will be at their mercy. Followed by Libya, Egypt, Tunisia and Algeria. They are already too strong in Morocco too and have political power there.

I'll then need to fly as far as Hong Kong or Australia.

You can kill the ideologue but not the ideology as easily. And since the ISIS fights 4GW when it is near defeat it may simply just go underground and treat the victorious enemies like they treated the US army in Iraq. They will step up their IEDs and continually pinprick their victorious enemies until they reemerge.

Here is an interesting article on the ISIL
http://fabiusmaximus.com/2015/01/28/isis-islamic-state-4gw-future-77446/


And then there is the darwinian ratchet:

We’re all familiar with how this works with bacteria. Administer antibiotics in non-lethal doses and soon you have a colony of drug-resistant bacteria. It works with people, too. The security services cull the pack of insurgents, eliminating the slow and stupid. This clears space for the “best” to rise in authority, those most able to survive, recruit, and train new ranks of more effective insurgents. An insurgency with shallow roots can be destroyed. If not destroyed, then evolution can occur. The more severe the efforts at exterminating the insurrection, the more capable the survivors.

Hence the familiar activity pattern of a rising sine wave: successes by the security forces, a pause in activity, followed by another wave of activity – but bigger and more effective.

This locks us into a Red Queen’s race, so we must run ever faster just to stay abreast of our enemies in the Long War. Insurgents prove more resilient than we expect, so we kill more locals and destroy more of their infrastructure. Our actions recruit more — and more effective — jihadists and further alienate the local population.

The “Darwinian ratchet” was a new idea in military theory when I wrote about it in 2003-2005. How is it possible that we still don’t understand it in 2015? As the following excerpts show, it’s been often mentioned by military and civilian experts. Can you explain our refusal to learn except by willful blindness?

http://fabiusmaximus.com/2015/05/29/isis-military-leaders-show-skill-85121/

 

[Comte De St. Germain]

The problem with modernisation is the importation of western degeneracy

Can we have a strong patriarchal and socially healthy society as well as technologically advanced countries instead of having to choose between the backwardness on one hand and degeneracy and trans-bullshit on the other hand?

In all honesty that kind of society only happens in a middle period between extreme conservatism and extreme degeneracy, or in outliers such as Argentina or among Persians where social conditions cause both extreme promiscuity coupled with extreme need to hide it. A society that has the best of both worlds needs to shame open promiscuity, but allow for a "liberal" attitude(classically liberal of course) towards what the younger generation does. In these "secular" societies men are encouraged to bang sluts in order to prove their masculinity, but women are extremely discouraged with girls whom get pregnant as teens shunned from the community(though men do too if they get them pregnant). It's an as long as you don't do something stupid culture.


On the case of Lebanon(I actually forgot to expand on this bit earlier in the thread), it's one of those few nations that seemed to prove the strongman theory I had earlier. After its formation it had amazing amounts of sectarian fighting between Lebanese Muslims and Christians, but strangely enough it was also the only "Muslim" country in the region to never officially declare war on Israel as well as getting great economic growth between periods of strife with the government divided by the religious groups that lived in that nation(Shiite, Sunni, and Christian).

Not invading Israel was actually a wise choice for the Lebanese as when their Civil War broke out in late 70s Israel was the first to intervene to stabilize the region coupled with foreign multinational forces that would later come in. After the Civil War foreign military presence completely stabilized the region until about 2000 ushering in a period of relative peace causing the growth of nightlife as well as a more liberal culture due to secular Syrian soldiers keeping the peace and the need to jump start the economy by whatever needs necessary. Syrian soldiers left around 2000 due to popular protest.

Although Hezbollah is also deeply embedded in the country now, Israel will more than definitely intervene if ISIS comes into Lebanese territory as they are the most relatively "stable" country in that region. If Syria and Lebanon fall, any chance of a safe Middle East goes.

On Lebanese women stateside. If you want your "Arab" flag, Lebanese girls are some of the most highly Westernized here Stateside as well as massive sluts. I would also like to mention that if you would like your Arab flag period, the country is still stable enough to go clubbing and have a good time according to Lebanese friends of mine(think RVF has a couple threads on it too). Could serve as an alternative to Latin America for those of us looking for tan, black haired babes that currently live in Europe.

Of course obligatory pictures of Lebanese women in Beirut:

 

[Foolsgo1d]

If you are worried about ISIS, look no further than Syria. It's well-known and propagated that Syria is the Arab world hope at the moment.

If Syria defeats ISIS, they'll be gone forever. They are already defeated in Egypt and Tunisia. If ISIS defeats Syria, a whole other scenario will emerge. Iraq, and Liban are probably their first target and will be at their mercy. Followed by Libya, Egypt, Tunisia and Algeria. They are already too strong in Morocco too and have political power there.

I'll then need to fly as far as Hong Kong or Australia.

You can kill the ideologue but not the ideology as easily. And since the ISIS fights 4GW when it is near defeat it may simply just go underground and treat the victorious enemies like they treated the US army in Iraq. They will step up their IEDs and continually pinprick their victorious enemies until they reemerge.

Here is an interesting article on the ISIL
http://fabiusmaximus.com/2015/01/28/isis-islamic-state-4gw-future-77446/


And then there is the darwinian ratchet:

We’re all familiar with how this works with bacteria. Administer antibiotics in non-lethal doses and soon you have a colony of drug-resistant bacteria. It works with people, too. The security services cull the pack of insurgents, eliminating the slow and stupid. This clears space for the “best” to rise in authority, those most able to survive, recruit, and train new ranks of more effective insurgents. An insurgency with shallow roots can be destroyed. If not destroyed, then evolution can occur. The more severe the efforts at exterminating the insurrection, the more capable the survivors.

Hence the familiar activity pattern of a rising sine wave: successes by the security forces, a pause in activity, followed by another wave of activity – but bigger and more effective.

This locks us into a Red Queen’s race, so we must run ever faster just to stay abreast of our enemies in the Long War. Insurgents prove more resilient than we expect, so we kill more locals and destroy more of their infrastructure. Our actions recruit more — and more effective — jihadists and further alienate the local population.

The “Darwinian ratchet” was a new idea in military theory when I wrote about it in 2003-2005. How is it possible that we still don’t understand it in 2015? As the following excerpts show, it’s been often mentioned by military and civilian experts. Can you explain our refusal to learn except by willful blindness?

http://fabiusmaximus.com/2015/05/29/isis-military-leaders-show-skill-85121/

Interesting stuff but I notice one thing, and one thing that sets apart those who became world conquerors and the losers.

When a city in what we call Afghanistan now rebelled against Genghis Khans rule he not only slaughtered the men, but the women and children, destroying the whole city entirely.

He understood that to leave enemies, even babes in arms at his back, was to give his enemy an advantage. Hence the popularity of guerrilla warfare and insurgency.

The United States' only modern day pacified action was in Fallujah but they gave the insurgents time to run, hide and assemble elsewhere.

Now you can say there are dictators who have done similar but have lost. I don't think they had the ability to completely pacify an enemy territory or people. We're talking millions of people of hundreds of thousands of square miles.

Who would do that? Russia did the closest thing to it in Chechnya but still it was not a complete annihilation of the Chechen rebels because the civilian base was left intact. If you see ISIS videos its a game of spot the Chechen.

There will always be terrorism from now on because it is effective. The problem is where does the scale stop? What would occur if a weapon of mass destruction was detonated in a heavily populated city?

As long as the internet can carry a message to the other side of the world terrorism will continue to be used by the losers, disaffected and psycho's of the world.