It Is Time To Leave The West

Easy_C

Peacock
And the number of excess deaths means absolutely nothing in terms of them becoming totalitarian. The trend was in play long before COVID and if it wasn’t COVID it would have been something else.


The number of excess deaths does NOT mean that the vax passport requirements and attempts to literally force people into compliance through starvation is going to suddenly stop. It’s far too useful if a way to weed skeptics out of society.

Let’s say your 100% right. Well good for you. It does nothing to change or influence the initial hypothesis when you have societies going into full martial law lockdowns over numbers as small as cases in the teens or single digits.
 
And the number of excess deaths means absolutely nothing in terms of them becoming totalitarian. The trend was in play long before COVID and if it wasn’t COVID it would have been something else.


The number of excess deaths does NOT mean that the vax passport requirements and attempts to literally force people into compliance through starvation is going to suddenly stop. It’s far too useful if a way to weed skeptics out of society.

Let’s say your 100% right. Well good for you. It does nothing to change or influence the initial hypothesis when you have societies going into full martial law lockdowns over numbers as small as cases in the teens or single digits.
The argument made by Gonzalo Lira was that the pandemic response was evidence of the West becoming totally totalitarian. Now of course if there had been no pandemic then Covid restrictions would indeed be clear evidence of the arrival of totalitarian excess. However, if you look at the pandemic of 1918 you will see very similar nation-wide lockdowns, especially in Australia, which Lira mentioned.

Thus, no matter if we strongly disagree with Covid restrictions in place currently, which I do, you can still place the current response in a paradigm of misguided political response to a real pandemic.

I would be amazed if the vax requirements would not completely disappear once the virus becomes just a common cold, as experts believe it will, and as many coronaviruses before have.

I totally agree that the pandemic response by most countries, laudibly excluding Sweden, has been totally over the top and by no means proportionate or based on clear science. However, every hypothesis needs clear evidence. And if Lira believes that full on totalitarianism is manifested now forever, you can't fight it, etc etc, then frankly he is missing the elephant in the room, that in the case of pandemics governments the world over, even non democratic, non-western, and non-leftist governments, back in 1918 have put these kinds of restrictions in place. I'm not defending them, I'm just saying, it is more likely that these restrictions will disappear over time. So fleeing to Cambodia because of them makes no sense.
 

magaman

Woodpecker
@MorganAlpha don't get stuck on the covid pandemic. Its just one piece of the puzzle called the great reset. This is the reason people want to leave. Covid is just a symptom of that.
Yeah I was actually just thinking about that too. We won't ever be able to escape the coof regulations 100% but it's obvious that "white", western countries (Five Eyes) are completely beyond the point of saving and are the absolute peak of the clown world mountain. I know that living in a place like Mexico or South America will come with it's own challenges but I think the trade-offs would be highly worth it in the long run. Russia is another idea I had but that comes with all sorts of new question marks and uncertainties.

My current plan is to save up a realistic amount of money and weigh my options, in either more rural Texas or somewhere in Mexico. Texas I'm familiar with and there'd be less hoops to jump through obviously but in Mexico I can live way cheaper and the quality of women would be a little bit higher but I know still not every single one is going to be a tradwife unicorn. Closer to the border they're a little bit more Americanized but still definitely steps up from in the USA. I've met some down there so I know, haha. At some point in the future I'll be able to use my house as an asset and rent it out. It'd go for a decent rate and if I played my cards right, I could probably still make it here in America but I'd definitely be well off in Mexico. Especially if I had enough to buy a property outright and just paid the utilities and the very small property tax. Then after food and phone/internet/Mexican car insurance, I'd be set.
 

kingtufti

Pigeon
Stay where you are, have a network and comunity, its bettter to fight it out then run off. damned if you do and damned if you dont. (I am in the UK, its ok for now, but take off the table)

I'm from the UK, and I disagree.

I'm watching the bs unfold from outside the island, and it's not looking good...

It's the people... you might have a decent network, but when 82% of people take their medical advice from Elton John and Lenny Henry over the likes of Dr Malone...

Chris Witty gives the green light for vaxxing kids and barely anyone shrugs...

And those prison towns. Man...

What WILL it take for the morons to snap out of it???

They're building prison towns, for 'residents', and almost no-one's reporting on it???

And where will you hide out???

Seriously, you'll be drone ID'd in an afternoon.

NO chance of making it in the UK... unless you're planning to join the masons.
 

Dilated

Woodpecker

Look at the rural property prices in Argentina. It probably comes with a bureaucratic headache but it's quite inexpensive.

Good find. Thanks for sharing.

Can anyone comment with first-hand knowledge about property rights and bureaucratic headaches re. real estate in Latin America, specifically for Americans?

I have residency in a S. American country and would love to buy something but I’ve been down here long enough to be shocked at how incompetent they are across the board…and I had very low expectations of their competence coming in.

Contracts can be worthless here and that’s also a concern when investing a good chunk of money in real estate.
 

Mrredsquare

Woodpecker
I'm from the UK, and I disagree.

I'm watching the bs unfold from outside the island, and it's not looking good...

It's the people... you might have a decent network, but when 82% of people take their medical advice from Elton John and Lenny Henry over the likes of Dr Malone...

Chris Witty gives the green light for vaxxing kids and barely anyone shrugs...

And those prison towns. Man...

What WILL it take for the morons to snap out of it???

They're building prison towns, for 'residents', and almost no-one's reporting on it???

And where will you hide out???

Seriously, you'll be drone ID'd in an afternoon.

NO chance of making it in the UK... unless you're planning to join the masons.
I agree the UK is finished. But I cannot leave my family behind and will take my chances than rather run like a coward.

There is going to be no escape - This is Satan's World and evil is coming for us, all of us.

May God give us the strength to endure the coming persecution.

Edit - I'm not accusing anyone here of being a coward. It's a statement I have become to live by.
 
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@MorganAlpha don't get stuck on the covid pandemic. Its just one piece of the puzzle called the great reset. This is the real reason people want to leave. If it wasn't covid it would be some other '' crisis ''.

There's all kinds of good reasons to leave. Lira doing a video telling people that the west is becoming totalitarian, you won't be able to buy food etc, is not one of them. He's using pandemic restrictions as an argument, as if that will be a permanent state of affairs. It won't be.

Will left extremists use the pandemic to sell their own brand of ideology, climate change, etc, of course, will there be leftwing lunacy in areas of the bureacracy and politics, of course. But as for communist totalitarianism, permanent covid restrictions, no way is that here to stay. The issue rather is democracy itself, in that if you give the vote to everyone, rather than property owners, then of course you skew the electorate towards left-wing re-distribution politics. Those that promise hand-outs will get elected. There's always more have-nots than haves.
 
There's all kinds of good reasons to leave. Lira doing a video telling people that the west is becoming totalitarian, you won't be able to buy food etc, is not one of them. He's using fake pandemic restrictions as an argument, as if that will be a permanent state of affairs. It won't be.

Will left extremists use the pandemic to sell their own brand of ideology, climate change, etc, of course, will there be leftwing lunacy in areas of the bureacracy and politics, of course. But as for communist totalitarianism, permanent covid restrictions, no way is that here to stay. The issue rather is democracy itself, in that if you give the vote to everyone, rather than property owners, then of course you skew the electorate towards left-wing re-distribution politics. Those that promise hand-outs will get elected. There's always more have-nots than haves.
I hope you’re correct, really I do. But you better start preparing for the worst in case you’re wrong, which all actions globally are indicating.
 

Easy_C

Peacock
I would be amazed if the vax requirements would not completely disappear once the virus becomes just a common cold, as experts believe it will, and as many coronaviruses before have.
The WHO already categorizes CV as "endemic", meaning it's just a seasonal disease at this point.

If the vax requirements were going to go away based on any rational scientific stance they already would have.

Additionally you referring to "Governments have put these measure in place" previously is bunk.

No they haven't. The idea of completely shuttering the entire economy was never done before and every thing I can find indicates that the idea was generally regarded as insane UNTIL China tried to put Wuhan on complete lockdown.

Edit: You're also misrepresenting the hypothesis. It isn't just about vax mandates.

It's two parts.

1: The Western governments are becoming totalitarian at a rate that is extremely fast and accelerating exponentially

2: If you're not vaccinated, you have a short window of time before it will become impossible to leave without risking your life in the attempt.
 
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The WHO already categorizes CV as "endemic", meaning it's just a seasonal disease at this point.

If the vax requirements were going to go away based on any rational scientific stance they already would have.

Additionally you referring to "Governments have put these measure in place" previously is bunk.

No they haven't. The idea of completely shuttering the entire economy was never done before and every thing I can find indicates that the idea was generally regarded as insane UNTIL China tried to put Wuhan on complete lockdown.

Edit: You're also misrepresenting the hypothesis. It isn't just about vax mandates.

It's two parts.

1: The Western governments are becoming totalitarian at a rate that is extremely fast and accelerating exponentially

2: If you're not vaccinated, you have a short window of time before it will become impossible to leave without risking your life in the attempt.

It's true that the lockdowns were copied from Wuhan. Sure. It failed there like it failed everywhere else, but fear and panic are bad counsel.

But lockdowns came during the pandemic. That is the key. If you think governments have not put that in place before, like in the 1918 pandemic you can read this account of 1918:

"Tasmania imposed a strict quarantine and had the lowest mortality rate in Australia – 114 per 100,000 – but the pandemic did its economy great damage. Western Australian authorities impounded the transcontinental train and placed its passengers in isolation.

Queensland imposed border control. Travellers had to cool their heels in Tenterfield, in tents and public buildings adapted to house them."


US measures in the 1918 pandemic are here:


These things were done before. The restrictions were lifted when the politicians understood they're no longer necessary, when the pandemic of 1918 was gone. It will happen again in 2022, and vax requirements will disappear except in places where fear reigns.

Yes, the western democracies are attacking their opponents more than ever before, but the current wave of leftist lunacy will pass as well. They always do. In Russia. In Cambodia. In China. In Chile. In Venezuela. In East Germany. Its' just another wave we're living through.
 

Easy_C

Peacock
I'm starting to become less charitable in my interpretation of your motives.

Notice how I did not say "Quarantine". Yet you're attacking that strawman.

I said "shuttering the economy".

Yes, the western democracies are attacking their opponents more than ever before, but the current wave of leftist lunacy will pass as well. They always do. In Russia. In Cambodia. In China. In Chile. In Venezuela. In East Germany. Its' just another wave we're living through.

Ironic choice of examples there. In most of those places the people who were not on the side of regime and did not flee were killed. In East Germany, failing to flee before the wall went up is often used as the text book example of why you need to flee BEFORE the "wave" crests.
 
I'm from the UK, and I disagree.

I'm watching the bs unfold from outside the island, and it's not looking good...

It's the people... you might have a decent network, but when 82% of people take their medical advice from Elton John and Lenny Henry over the likes of Dr Malone...

Chris Witty gives the green light for vaxxing kids and barely anyone shrugs...

And those prison towns. Man...

What WILL it take for the morons to snap out of it???

They're building prison towns, for 'residents', and almost no-one's reporting on it???

And where will you hide out???

Seriously, you'll be drone ID'd in an afternoon.

NO chance of making it in the UK... unless you're planning to join the masons.

Do you have any good links to the prison town building?
 
If the vax requirements were going to go away based on any rational scientific stance they already would have.

And there is no discussion in the legacy media about the vaxx passports going away either. If it was truly temporary the “fake” journalists would ask questions about it and the media would project it.

You don’t shut down the entire economy for a pandemic. You do it for a revolution.

I’m also considering what to do everyday. Since there is no way to predict how things will play out, I find myself pretty unsettled and indecisive. As an expat in Western Europe, I think there is a lot of value in staying where you are, where you have a network and you have already invested so many years of your life in this place and know it. Going somewhere else is a crapshoot at this point. Even Bulgaria.

After much deliberation, from reading this forum and talking to my like-minded friends here, I will either stay where I’m at or go someplace where there is family. My biggest concern is not being able to see family across the Atlantic. It’s surreal.
 

Easy_C

Peacock
Agreed but you can help them better by providing a landing pad.

My idea now is that the best places to go are likely going to be "tax haven" locations. Those places have a vested interest in staying open, not putting in crazy mandates (because you want those crypto-millionaires bringing in their assets without (vax or not) papers checking that could scare them off), and keeping capital flows as open as possible. I'd be more skeptical of places that have signed on to things like the Smart Cities alliance or where the key officials hold WEF board positions.
 
Here you can see the deaths reported in Sweden 2015 to 2019 (grey lines), in 2020 (red line) and in 2021 (purple line) and what would have been normal for 2020 based on previous years (black line). As in all other countries, as you can see, it shows a massive spike for 2020.

Your graphs are different, I believe, because you select certain parametres only on the Swedish website, like only selecting certain ages.

Sweden is not the only country in the world that logs births and deaths, virtually all countries do. There can always be issues with methodology, however, the overall data is so clear there is really no room for misunderstanding. I do not need to separate the ages, I am merely looking at overall excess death figures. And yes, you get similar data for Mexico and Malaysia. Whatever the differences the overall picture is crystal clear however.

View attachment 34197


As others have commented, we should be having this discussion in another thread, but before that I will answer your last comment.

First off if you answer, please read your counterpart's comment. Otherwise you would have known from just looking at the figures that I selected all available age groups,. Second of all, I didn't deny there was an "excess mortality". As you would see in the figures I posted, the excess mortality was concentrated in the oldest age groups, deaths per thousand among the youngest groups even went down in 2020. The excess mortality is even comparable to 2002 or 2010, this is especially true for the younger age groups. Did Sweden close in those years when youngsters were "dying like flies"? What I deny is that there was ever a justification for lockdowns, the new normal or the concoctions and the numbers so far bear this out. Therefore the motivations behind this hysteria are far darker than many of us imagine.

Third, Many numbers in the third world are not reliable, are not published and when they are, they are outdated one or more years. In many cases the raw data is there but there is a never ending work of purging and correcting the records a work most politicians down here are not inclined to support, unless it is done with borrowed money or technical cooperations. In many of these countries, the data is there but is spread in many independent reports, faulty databases, different organizations with different processing methodolgies etc. Hence my question about how they got these data, when it's not published even in the official records in the countries of origin. I guess they got "special" access to this data, who knows, but that in itself thwarts any attempt at double checking.

By the way, the excess mortality can only be attributed to the "pandemic" either by excess deaths directly caused by the disease or by externalities attributed to the "pandemic" (overloading of the hospitalization services, supply chain collapse, civil disorder, wars etc.). So far no evidence of either has surfaced. As others have said, the excess mortality in most places has been due to a mix of killer protocols (refusal to provide prevention care, ventilators when not needed), denial of medical services altogether in many cases, lockdown and impoverishment (try lockdowns in Peru, or certain countries in Africa, even in Australia where general mortality increased by 5% even though the cases and deaths attributed to covid are barely 1500 out of 25 million people), etc. One can almost say they tried to "simulate" the impacts of a real pandemic, but I digress.

In regards to the graph, the real question would be the methodology behind the calculation. But there are basic flaws very conspicuous even at first sight: the comparison timeframe is really short (5 years) and there is not breakdown by ages or causes of death..., those "mistakes" say a lot about the creators' biases and what they try to "prove".

Well, I made my point, good luck.
 
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Maddox

Robin
A man in New York City who has good team around him will be stronger than a loner in Romanian. I'm introverted and my mistake was not surrounding myself with good people. That 'lone wolf' stuff will only take you so far these days. No man is an island!

@ Easy_C

"You don't want to live in countries that "are poor". You want countries where the state is relatively weak"

I agree! This is why I would recommend southern European countries (Spain, Portugal, Southern Italy, Greece etc.) The people in these countries are easy going and the state is relatively weak (higher rates of corruption, organised crime, tax evasion etc.) You can have a good quality of life if you have money - US$ 500 per week would be considered a very good wage. If you were pooling your resources (housing etc.) with a group your standard of living would be even higher. These countries are the least worst option IMO.

Why not northern Italy (i.e. Milan, Venice)? What is different up there?
 

El Draque

Kingfisher
Orthodox
The point is that the West is clearly slated for seismic changes over the coming decade. Which, by hook or by crook, the elites will lfind ways of leveraging.

Ive lived abroad for ten years now, and ultimately have little to go back to, so staying away is a no brainer to me.

If you have a relatively stable and satisfuing life in the West, then its likely a hill worth dying on.

All these choices are personal. There is no one size fits all.
 
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