It Is Time To Leave The West

I'm staying right where I am. I suppose that my thought is that, two years is woefully insufficient to judge winners and losers, in any kind of conflict, whether violent or nonviolent. War can result in lost generations. My thoughts resonate with the famous quote by Minister Theodore Parker that is incorrectly attributed to many others (MLK, etc):

I do not pretend to understand the moral universe, the arc is a long one, my eye reaches but little ways. I cannot calculate the curve and complete the figure by the experience of sight; I can divine it by conscience. But from what I see I am sure it bends towards justice.

The British Empire was relatively decent towards the Indians and their Empire was becoming unsustainable anyway. Not the current ruthless ruling class.

Imagine Stalin dealing with Gandhi quite different results.
 

El Draque

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Honestly i think this is really brinksmanship, leaving now.

The time to get out was this summer at latest. You could conceivably get out now, if you can travel light and just jump on a flight, but for sure you wont be able to get much done once out.

In Ukraine they are ramping up for a lockdown again, it's blatant. Mandates for civil servants - eg staff at govt admin centres. If you want to get residency, then you would need to do all the admin, then leave the country, apply at a Ukranian embassy outside ukraine, then re-enter, before going through the admin to flip that 90day into a full annual rolling visa.

All a ball ache at the best of times, but to do so this winter? I'd say borderline impossible.

Alternative is just to go somewhere and live illegally beyond the 90 day tourist visa. TBH that's very easily done, all you'll get is 200usd fine when leaving country. But you cant buy property, and have to constantly be wary of papers please!, which is basically the future.

That said, they'll extend the quarantine rules no doubt, which will mean a cessation of the 90 day overstay fines, but still, if you want to live beyond in an airbnb, and put down any kind of roots, it's tough on such shakey foundations.
 

Sherman

Ostrich
I plan on moving back to Mexico. Latin cultures are more relaxed and harder to control. The anglo cultures with their control obsession are easy to convert to totalitarianism. Look at what is happening in Australia and the brutally enforced leftist puritanism in America. Even at the height of the pandemic, the Mexican authorities were pretty reasonable.
 

Blade Runner

Ostrich
Orthodox
Honestly i think this is really brinksmanship, leaving now.

The time to get out was this summer at latest. You could conceivably get out now, if you can travel light and just jump on a flight, but for sure you wont be able to get much done once out.

In Ukraine they are ramping up for a lockdown again, it's blatant. Mandates for civil servants - eg staff at govt admin centres. If you want to get residency, then you would need to do all the admin, then leave the country, apply at a Ukranian embassy outside ukraine, then re-enter, before going through the admin to flip that 90day into a full annual rolling visa.

All a ball ache at the best of times, but to do so this winter? I'd say borderline impossible.

Alternative is just to go somewhere and live illegally beyond the 90 day tourist visa. TBH that's very easily done, all you'll get is 200usd fine when leaving country. But you cant buy property, and have to constantly be wary of papers please!, which is basically the future.

That said, they'll extend the quarantine rules no doubt, which will mean a cessation of the 90 day overstay fines, but still, if you want to live beyond in an airbnb, and put down any kind of roots, it's tough on such shakey foundations.
Yes, you're moving into the eye of the storm if you go now. There won't be a settling likely until next Summer, or, the next US election.
 

El Draque

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Yes, you're moving into the eye of the storm if you go now. There won't be a settling likely until next Summer, or, the next US election.

Or you could be getting out in the nick of time, depending on how things go in the West.

Thing is here, that even if there's lockdowns, they're not really that enforced. Last one gym remained open, just had to phone reception and wait to be let in. Restaurants and bars were open on the QT too (apparently). You dont get police driving around getting into people's business in remotely the same way.

It's all just a box ticking exercise for the NGO's & banks, basically.

Ultimately this all comes down to what people's homelife is like in the West. If you have a nice enough life, in decent surroundings (eg not a city, in a nice enough house / community), then it's a lot to risk. If not, then why not.
 
And many times the bullies win. If the past two years have taught us anything then it is that non-violent demonstrations are being ignored. Heck they are not even featured in the mainstream media, despite millions of attendants in some cases. That does not mean I advocate violent resistance, all I am saying it that the idea of peaceful resistance is flawed and that the best strategy most likely is to simply extract yourself.

If I may ask, what have you decided for yourself and your loved ones?

I understand your point, however I think we are all wrong with the concept of "peaceful resistance". Except for a few outliers (France? African countries? some regions in LatAm?), peaceful resistance has not even been attempted. Protests, strikes, are not peaceful resistance in themselves. Marches aren't since they are all about implicitly recognizing the authority's legitimacy, the attendants are asking for a course correction to the State). Is an implicit acknowledgement of the State's legitimacy and power. The backbone of real peaceful resistance is non-compliance en masse. The problem is that such an action requires the approval and participation of at least a quarter of the population and coordination at that scale is now impossible.

Regarding the main topic: Unless you have the resources (money, contacts on the ground, etc., to be self sufficient or close to it), the time to leave the West was 4 or 5 years ago, not now. You can risk it, but you will find a much more hostile world than 4 years ago. 4 years ago you could have banded with fellow expat travelers and organized a community in a rural Area in a place like Paraguay or a similar country. Years ago you could have forged alliances and friendships with likeminded locals, thus becoming part of the local community, gaining contacts, maybe even marrying into the country etc. Now, the bad times will be global (different degrees of severity) and the human worst instincts will surface. Now is not the time to go into an unknown country and search for employment, competing with the locals, especially if you don't blend in physically at least. Just my opinion.

But everyone's circumstances are different, ie. if your country is going full Stalin's URSS, well escaping into the unknown is not a bad idea.
 
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holgerdanske

Woodpecker
No, it's not some "black pill garbage".

That said I think he is wrong and this project will fail. They very clearly didn't anticipate some of the exploding shortages (same as any communist regime) and you can tell they're panicking because they're doing things like begging Putin to send more oil and trying to open up the US "strategic reserves" to reduce gas prices. It's going up too much too fast and risking mass unrest.

HOWEVER. He's still correct on the most important point that you need to leave now. As the project fails the US is going to split along countless lines and will become an ungovernable quagmire. The future looks like Afghanistan and.....trust me when I say that very few of you here (possibly myself included) are not cut out for a life similar to what being a civilian in Afghanistan is like.

It already is an ungovernable quagmire in many parts of the U.S.
 

holgerdanske

Woodpecker
Even if it does, leaving en masse is not the answer. It strikes me as pretty suspicious to say we must assume that plans by a malicious government will achieve the result they predict. Like it's a done deal or something. I guess if you have that defeatist attitude then you'll want to leave, but you're probably not going to find paradise anywhere else.

It's true, most of us... probably none of us are able to grasp, let alone prepare for the coming storm. Doesn't mean they should be allowed to herd us around like goats just out of fear.
I would have agreed with you a year or two ago. But after seeing what has transpired here in Europe, in Australia, and in particular throughout 2020 in the U.S. I am a lot more pessimistic that there will be any pushback.

BTW, many of you guys are jumping to conclusions and make assumptions based on your own situation or motivations. If you read my text again, I am actually in the remain and hunker down camp. But I am highly concerned that things may devolve to the point where there is no place left to hide in the West. And I have no idea really what to do about it beyond what I have already done, which by the way is 10x of what most people out there even come close to. I have a remote farm which is completely off the grid, I have multiple hectares of land I can grow food on, I have enough resources to weather out years of economic contraction, etc. etc. So if I am getting worried then it's for a reason.

Many of you still seem to assume that this is going to blow over and improve over time. I will not. This is our new reality for the next few years and perhaps even for decades. The sooner you wrap your mind around this idea they more objective you are able to assess the situation and consider alternative plans. If you then still want to hunker down and sit it out - like we most likely will be doing - then all the power to you. The thought of breaking up my entire life here and going to some foreign place where I don't even know the language scares the jabees out of me.
 

Mountaineer

Ostrich
Gold Member
If I were to move I would go to a country where I wouldn't need to heat my house and have a plot of land to use. If you own your house in Spain it's much better than to rent in another place. You are set, rather than change now trust God and pray he will save you from much of this storm. Read what Saint Paisios advised.
 
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El Draque

Kingfisher
Orthodox
If I were to move I would go to a country where I wouldn't need to heat my house and have a plot of land to use. If you own your house in Spain it's much better than to rent in another place. You are set, rather than change now trust God and pray he will save you from much of this storm. Read what Saint Paisios advised.

Spain is going to be Great Resetted just as much as anywhere else in the West. Having been there for the first lockdown last year, the place is utterly compliant & governed by absolute rabid Marxists. The police have it locked down there faaaar more than vast majority in Eastern Europe.

Also, buying property in Spain does not guarantee residency. Brits now have to do 90 days on / off, and that's homeowners.
 

Maddox

Woodpecker
Honestly i think this is really brinksmanship, leaving now.

The time to get out was this summer at latest. You could conceivably get out now, if you can travel light and just jump on a flight, but for sure you wont be able to get much done once out.

In Ukraine they are ramping up for a lockdown again, it's blatant. Mandates for civil servants - eg staff at govt admin centres. If you want to get residency, then you would need to do all the admin, then leave the country, apply at a Ukranian embassy outside ukraine, then re-enter, before going through the admin to flip that 90day into a full annual rolling visa.

All a ball ache at the best of times, but to do so this winter? I'd say borderline impossible.

Alternative is just to go somewhere and live illegally beyond the 90 day tourist visa. TBH that's very easily done, all you'll get is 200usd fine when leaving country. But you cant buy property, and have to constantly be wary of papers please!, which is basically the future.

That said, they'll extend the quarantine rules no doubt, which will mean a cessation of the 90 day overstay fines, but still, if you want to live beyond in an airbnb, and put down any kind of roots, it's tough on such shakey foundations.

Would any other EE countries be easier to move to right now to gain residency? Like Russia or Poland?
 

El Draque

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Would any other EE countries be easier to move to right now to gain residency? Like Russia or Poland?

Dont know. If your EU then you can live in Poland right off the plane (AFAIK). No idea about Russia. I'd imagine not.

As for other countries, each have their own regs re Visa, i guess some are better than others, but the 90 days rule is pretty standard.

In Ukraine, if you hire a lawyer and do a self-employed visa, you will end up paying the best part of 5000usd in fees, flights, hotels etc. This may depend on your nationality (British have to pay 2000usd visa fee at embassy, pretty sure that's the highest of any nation, due to reciprocracy policy).

But as i say, if you fly in tomorrow and hit the ground running there maybe you might get things sorted in time for winter, but i doubt it.
 

kel

Ostrich
Anywhere you go is going to be under the sway of either US and allies or China and allies. Pick somewhere good, sure, make the best of a bad situation, but moving from country x to country y solely because country y doesn't (right now) have as many lockdowns/mandates/whatever as country x is thinking far too specifically. You need community wherever you go, and in all likelihood you're more able to achieve that in your own country or somewhere culturally similar with (historically) legal benefits that make it easier to do the bare minimum you need to/are able to do to not make your life harder than it is (Canada/US, between EU countries, etc.).

As bad as the US is, the center of the gay empire, I think I'm best off there and am trying to get friends here and in Canada and elsewhere to join me. Find a little place we can build.
 

hkhathaj

Woodpecker
This idea was already discussed on the "Where to escape tyranny" thread. Conclusion was that there is no place on Earth where you can be sure to avoid this.

China is already worse. We don't understand Russia but that can go full Covid even under Putin but he may be Epsteined and then who knows what will come there. EU will be Australia.

Some countries in Africa may look safe now but that can change in no time.

The only thing that I don't agree with CRP is that the poor countries will not be able to afford to implement the Great Reset. They will not be able to afford not to implement it. They will not receive loan or they will be just invaded if they don't do it.

Maybe an Island nation in the pacific? That was just a joke they were the first to be lost.

There is nowhere to go.

If like minded people would go to a place then I may join them. But at the end that could be worse because together we would be an easier target.

Sorry for the black pilling. If anyone knows which place will surely be better then I will consider moving there.
 
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