Japanese people not reproducing

Those of you who have been to Japan and say "the samurai code martial spirit is dead", do you think its really the case?

I practice kenjutsu, aikido and jujutsu as part of my living. Now I dont worship or romanticize Japan and the samurai, but I hold a lot of respect for them as a martial culture. In France we often discuss how we would love to go to Japan to train with Japaneses because they are supposed to be badasses in martial prowess.

However, my Japanese friend tells me that actually in Japan nobody really practice "the old ways" anymore, and those dedicated to martial prowess are considered nerdy weirdos in Japan. One time at my dojo there was this visiting Jap guy. While we white people were carefully folding our uniform the guy just shove his carelessly in his bag. He said "you guys are more Japanese than the Japanese!"

For Kyudo, the old archery art of Japan, French people won more prizes than Jap and the head of the Jap Kyudo had to invite the French team over.

I know more about Jap history than some of my Jap friends.

Wondering if the decline of the martial culture is a factor to the decline of Japan.
 

TornadoByProxy

Woodpecker
^--- 'I know more about Jap history...' But don't know 'Jap' is derogatory?

Despite your faux pas, I think you are onto something. Japan has always been an insular nation. I've noticed even in the past decade, the young guys have no interest in ANYTHING having to do with their own culture and heritage. Maybe you are right and we will hit some tipping point and Japan will turn into some giant Fight Club some day. I kinda hope so.
 

Tokyo Joe

Woodpecker
Gold Member
not-a-pua said:
Update:
Around 1 Million Men(!) have locked themselves in their bedrooms.

Right, right... around one million Japanese men are hikikomori.
And 1 in 4 American women is the victim of rape/sexual assault.
And 1 in 5 U.S. adults suffers from major depression.
And in the UK 1 in 4 teen boys claims they have done a robbery, burglary, assault or sold drugs.
And ...

All horseshit. It is not much of an exaggeration to say that every single time you see a "statistic" bandied about in the mainstream media, alarm bells should be going off.

Nothing against the good Dr. Kato in the link above, but as a hikikomori expert, he makes money off this racket. The greater the problem is perceived to be, the more research funding thrown at it, and the bigger his cut. He has some incentive to overstate the size of this peculiar affliction.

As for some actual data -- what do they tell us? There have been many studies and surveys over the past several years; the results of a representative one, done by the Cabinet Office in 2010, can be found here. The total number (men and women) of hikikomori "in the narrow sense" -- that is, in the proper sense of people who rarely go out except to the convenience store, etc. -- is 236,000. Note that this tracks well with the results of a completely separate study by the Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare which found 255,000.

I don't have the man/woman breakdown at my fingertips, but this is indeed a mostly male problem. If say 90% of the hikikomori are men, then just over 200,000 Japanese men are locked in their bedrooms.

One million or 200,000? Oh hell, what's a factor of five between friends, right?

***
As for the decline of the "martial spirit" in Japan, for better or for worse it is clear that something went out of them c. 1945. However, as almost always happens following a severe blood-letting, Japan had a vigorous, healthy rebirth from the 1950s right through the 1980s. Whatever sickness we are witnessing now has little to do with the decline of the old martial spirit in Japan; rather, it is part and parcel of the general malaise we see everywhere in the West ("the West" writ large, i.e. U.S./Canada, Europe, Australia/NZ, Japan/S Korea). The Stale Peace has settled over the Land of the Rising Sun as well...
 

Sonsowey

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Is anyone doing anything about this?

We know most standard political processes are worthless to combat this trend.

But RVF is just the place to help their fertility rate get back up there.
 

Tokyo Joe

Woodpecker
Gold Member
Sonsowey said:
Is anyone doing anything about this?

Sonsowey: Yes yes, I am! I am ploughing the sweaty furrows of all the young Japanese chicks who simply cannot find a man to attend to their neaty trimmed fields, because millions of Japanese men are locked in their bedrooms... :bigsmile:
 

Sumanguru

Kingfisher
Tokyo Joe said:
not-a-pua said:
Update:
Around 1 Million Men(!) have locked themselves in their bedrooms.

Right, right... around one million Japanese men are hikikomori.
And 1 in 4 American women is the victim of rape/sexual assault.
And 1 in 5 U.S. adults suffers from major depression.
And in the UK 1 in 4 teen boys claims they have done a robbery, burglary, assault or sold drugs.
And ...

All horseshit. It is not much of an exaggeration to say that every single time you see a "statistic" bandied about in the mainstream media, alarm bells should be going off.

Nothing against the good Dr. Kato in the link above, but as a hikikomori expert, he makes money off this racket. The greater the problem is perceived to be, the more research funding thrown at it, and the bigger his cut. He has some incentive to overstate the size of this peculiar affliction.

As for some actual data -- what do they tell us? There have been many studies and surveys over the past several years; the results of a representative one, done by the Cabinet Office in 2010, can be found here. The total number (men and women) of hikikomori "in the narrow sense" -- that is, in the proper sense of people who rarely go out except to the convenience store, etc. -- is 236,000. Note that this tracks well with the results of a completely separate study by the Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare which found 255,000.

I don't have the man/woman breakdown at my fingertips, but this is indeed a mostly male problem. If say 90% of the hikikomori are men, then just over 200,000 Japanese men are locked in their bedrooms.

One million or 200,000? Oh hell, what's a factor of five between friends, right?

***
As for the decline of the "martial spirit" in Japan, for better or for worse it is clear that something went out of them c. 1945. However, as almost always happens following a severe blood-letting, Japan had a vigorous, healthy rebirth from the 1950s right through the 1980s. Whatever sickness we are witnessing now has little to do with the decline of the old martial spirit in Japan; rather, it is part and parcel of the general malaise we see everywhere in the West ("the West" writ large, i.e. U.S./Canada, Europe, Australia/NZ, Japan/S Korea). The Stale Peace has settled over the Land of the Rising Sun as well...

TJ,

Damn your posts make me miss Japan.

Anyway, how much of all this hikkikomori shit, or anything related to it(women complaining about Japanese men, for example) are you actually *seeing* on the ground?
 
TornadoByProxy said:
^--- 'I know more about Jap history...' But don't know 'Jap' is derogatory?

No it's not, it's just a truncation like "Aussie". We don't do that political correctness nonsense here. He's hardly using it to be derogatory when he's expressing respect for their culture in the same post.
 

Tokyo Joe

Woodpecker
Gold Member
Sumanguru said:
TJ,

Damn your posts make me miss Japan.

Anyway, how much of all this hikkikomori shit, or anything related to it(women complaining about Japanese men, for example) are you actually *seeing* on the ground?

Sumanguru: Thanks, man. I haven't even starting posting seriously about Japan yet -- wait 'til we start cooking with gas.

As far as these (relatively very few) hikikomori are concerned, they never really come out so you'd never know they existed unless you read breathless Australian media reports or Japanese government reports about them.

On the other hand, the general and quite visible phenomenon of "herbivore men" (草食系男子) has a non-negligible and positive influence on the sexual market in Japan. After all, Japanese chicks are not exempt from the imperatives of their lizard hindbrains: At some level deep down, they are primed to respond to strong, dominant manly men. The more of those faggoty grass-eaters there are with their prissy hair, earrings, make-up etc., the more you will stand out as a real man.

[One important caveat: English language ability among the Japanese has not improved at all in recent years. If you want to have a shot at the roughly three-quarters of J-girls (and almost all of the gorgeous top-shelf pussy) who effectively cannot communicate in English, you have to have some Japanese language ability. The more the merrier.]

BTW - love the username Sumanguru. I understand it's a reference to the Sosso warrior-king of old, but when I first saw it I thought it was a Japanese language gag! Suumanguru (数マングル), the Guru of Many Pussies (=manko). LOL, you could almost use that as your adopted Japanese name (和名、wa-mei).
 

TornadoByProxy

Woodpecker
Phoenix said:
TornadoByProxy said:
^--- 'I know more about Jap history...' But don't know 'Jap' is derogatory?

No it's not, it's just a truncation like "Aussie". We don't do that political correctness nonsense here. He's hardly using it to be derogatory when he's expressing respect for their culture in the same post.

Yes, it is. It was used during World War II and reconstruction as a derogatory term. So I'm not sure where you are seeing political correctness.

Having lived in Tokyo, I can assure you, Japanese do not like the use of the word Jap. Anyone with an interest in Japan should know this.
 

Eskhander

Pelican
I remember when I first heard the term Jap.

It was from my maternal Grandfather. A captain in the Marine Corps who fought in the Pacific Theater.
My father and I were stopping by my grandparent's home, and he had just pulled up in his new truck.
As he stepped out, my father said, "Nice looking truck there Jack."

He responded, "Those damn Japs! They make a hell of a car."
 

Bushido

Ostrich
Gold Member
TornadoByProxy said:
Phoenix said:
TornadoByProxy said:
^--- 'I know more about Jap history...' But don't know 'Jap' is derogatory?

No it's not, it's just a truncation like "Aussie". We don't do that political correctness nonsense here. He's hardly using it to be derogatory when he's expressing respect for their culture in the same post.

Hear hear. The Japanese don't do political correctness either so I'm fine with using the term "Jap". It's all about the context.
 
worldwidetraveler said:
Jap was used as a ethnic slur same as using Paki.

It was, same as "nip" (which I think was worse). However there is no ongoing reason, 70 years after the end of the war, why the contraction "Jap" must be negative. "Aussie" isn't. 'Paki' (versus say "Hindu/Hindustani") only retains a negative connotation because of social tensions, and should those tensions one day disappear, so should eventually the negative connotation.

This is in stark contrast to say, "frog" or "kraut", which are clearly, and can only be, derogatory.

TornadoByProxy said:
Yes, it is. It was used during World War II and reconstruction as a derogatory term. So I'm not sure where you are seeing political correctness.

Having lived in Tokyo, I can assure you, Japanese do not like the use of the word Jap. Anyone with an interest in Japan should know this.

Truncations only continue to have negative connotations because people keep demanding it and reminding us in the name of social justice. The actual word itself is just a truncation, nothing more. If someone has used the truncation in a positive light, it should be allowed to pass without comment rather than speech police piping up to demand they speak in a politically correct manner (which it should be noted: Tornado has just succeeded in doing to TokyoJoe). This is how old negative connotations fade away.

Sorry Tornado, I respectfully set aside your "assurances from having lived in Tokyo" and what you think we "should know". We truncate words and names both out of love and hate, and its better we aim for the former rather than using distant polite language to avoid the latter.
 

worldwidetraveler

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Phoenix said:
worldwidetraveler said:
Jap was used as a ethnic slur same as using Paki.

It was, same as "nip" (which I think was worse). However there is no ongoing reason, 70 years after the end of the war, why the contraction "Jap" must be negative. "Aussie" isn't. 'Paki' (versus say "Hindu/Hindustani") only retains a negative connotation because of social tensions, and should those tensions one day disappear, so should eventually the negative connotation.

This is in stark contrast to say, "frog" or "kraut", which are clearly, and can only be, derogatory.

I never said it must be a negative. Simply that it was used negatively. Same as a white person using nigga. They may not intend negative connotations when using those types of word, but that doesn't mean it won't be accepted as a negative.
 

Eusebius

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Dalaran1991 said:
Those of you who have been to Japan and say "the samurai code martial spirit is dead", do you think its really the case?

I practice kenjutsu, aikido and jujutsu as part of my living. Now I dont worship or romanticize Japan and the samurai, but I hold a lot of respect for them as a martial culture. In France we often discuss how we would love to go to Japan to train with Japaneses because they are supposed to be badasses in martial prowess.

However, my Japanese friend tells me that actually in Japan nobody really practice "the old ways" anymore, and those dedicated to martial prowess are considered nerdy weirdos in Japan. One time at my dojo there was this visiting Jap guy. While we white people were carefully folding our uniform the guy just shove his carelessly in his bag. He said "you guys are more Japanese than the Japanese!"

For Kyudo, the old archery art of Japan, French people won more prizes than Jap and the head of the Jap Kyudo had to invite the French team over.

I know more about Jap history than some of my Jap friends.

Wondering if the decline of the martial culture is a factor to the decline of Japan.

Martial culture? Badasses? That's a joke. Sure you can find people who have preserved some of that. But it's like looking for bowler-hat wearing, pipe-smoking English gentlemen in England. There may be a few out there, but firstly, their numbers are tiny, and secondly, they are more likely self-conscious imitators and revivers rather than organic survivors of that old culture.
 

Sumanguru

Kingfisher
Tokyo Joe said:
Sumanguru said:
TJ,

Damn your posts make me miss Japan.

Anyway, how much of all this hikkikomori shit, or anything related to it(women complaining about Japanese men, for example) are you actually *seeing* on the ground?

Sumanguru: Thanks, man. I haven't even starting posting seriously about Japan yet -- wait 'til we start cooking with gas.

As far as these (relatively very few) hikikomori are concerned, they never really come out so you'd never know they existed unless you read breathless Australian media reports or Japanese government reports about them.

On the other hand, the general and quite visible phenomenon of "herbivore men" (草食系男子) has a non-negligible and positive influence on the sexual market in Japan. After all, Japanese chicks are not exempt from the imperatives of their lizard hindbrains: At some level deep down, they are primed to respond to strong, dominant manly men. The more of those faggoty grass-eaters there are with their prissy hair, earrings, make-up etc., the more you will stand out as a real man.

[One important caveat: English language ability among the Japanese has not improved at all in recent years. If you want to have a shot at the roughly three-quarters of J-girls (and almost all of the gorgeous top-shelf pussy) who effectively cannot communicate in English, you have to have some Japanese language ability. The more the merrier.]

BTW - love the username Sumanguru. I understand it's a reference to the Sosso warrior-king of old, but when I first saw it I thought it was a Japanese language gag! Suumanguru (数マングル), the Guru of Many Pussies (=manko). LOL, you could almost use that as your adopted Japanese name (和名、wa-mei).

Goddamn, that is a beautiful response, TJ.

Anyway, I went to school for Asian Studies, spent some time in the Pacific. I'm getting my Japanese back up to par again. I can read a newspaper (politics section) and usually only need to look up a couple words, trying to expand to other sections. Speaking is rusty as hell but slowly improving. I've been thinking about going back to Japan, maybe even moving there, but I can't see much a gaijin (especially a black gaijin) could do besides teach English, which doesn't pay too well and would get boring fast.
 

RexImperator

Crow
Gold Member
The Telegraph said:
More than forty per cent of young singletons in Japan are virgins, according to a new study that highlights concerns about the country's demographic challenges. Japan already suffers from the world's oldest population and a shrinking birthrate, with the government struggling to incentivise marriage and parenthood.

Now a survey of unmarried people aged 18 to 34 found that around 42 per cent of men and 44.2 per cent of single women had never had sex.

The study is carried out by Japan's National Institute of Population and Social Security every five years.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...t-of-japans-adult-singles-are-virgins-says-s/
 

Hermetic Seal

Pelican
Orthodox
Gold Member
What I found to be a crucial element of it all (after living there several years and studying the culture/language for years prior to that) was that Japanese numb themselves beyond the ability to feel anything. Between absurd work hours/culture, the dating games, overindulgence in anime/manga/regular video games, near-universal overindulgence in alcohol (especial among men) and mindless television, Japanese are comfortable, complacent, and barely alive. From middle school onward, Japanese seem to be conditioned into zombies. There will be no spiritual (or sexual) revival for Japan until this status quo is shaken up.
 
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