Jay Dyer

Hermetic Seal

Pelican
Orthodox
Gold Member
He seems to be the sort of guy you either love or hate. Not for the faint-of-heart. I can see where he's coming from on Catholicism and share many of his observations, though there are times where I'm left wondering whether he isn't oversimplifying things. Which is why I don't like online debates much. Too much drama. Better do your own online/offline research rather than just letting him or anyone do your homework for you (as he likes to put it).

Still, lots of thought-provoking content and I don't mind the more esoteric topics like the Hollywood symbolism. Generally agree on geopolitical issues, too. I tend to like his 9000 IQ humor. If there's one thing that's been annoying me, though, it'd be his shilling of crypto and the tendency to bash anyone who disagrees. I'm not dogmatically opposed to crypto but I've done my own research (and I'm more of a tech guy than he is) and I'm not sold on blockchain.

On that issue, I didn't appreciate how he ridiculed one guy's objections saying "enjoy the poverty". That really put me off. There are bad arguments against crypto but there are reasonable arguments against it. When he went on explaining he's now investing in various cryptos and has gotten into stocks, etc. he lost a credibility point in my book. On the other hand, I found myself in agreement with his general outlook on economics and money not being inherently evil.

To my mind, he's worth listening to on philosophy, theology, geopolitics and the likes but anything else I take with a grain of salt. Especially on issues like finances. That applies to any online personality, for that matter. Always make your own judgments.

I've found Dyer to have diminishing returns after a while. Some of his content is extremely useful in the early stages of investigating Orthodoxy but since I never found Rome all that convincing to begin with, it gets a bit tedious hearing him go on and on about it. Some folks probably get a lot of value out of that, but I know like three or four Catholics in real life compared to dozens of protestants. I think it's interesting that he doesn't devote much time to protestantism, his content on the subject is useful but it's a fraction of what he's put out in regards to Rome. Not a huge deal as there are others like Robert Arakaki, Fr. John Whiteford, and Fr. Josiah Trenham who have extensively addressed protestantism.

I find the crypto stuff boring too, I'm not denying it has its merits and Dyer might be giving good advice or whatever, I just don't care. Ditto for most of the Hollywood stuff. Some of his movie critiques are interesting, but I pay very little attention to cinema and TV so that's not really in my sphere of interest either.
 

Kadikoy

 
Banned
Orthodox
I've found Dyer to have diminishing returns after a while. Some of his content is extremely useful in the early stages of investigating Orthodoxy but since I never found Rome all that convincing to begin with, it gets a bit tedious hearing him go on and on about it. Some folks probably get a lot of value out of that, but I know like three or four Catholics in real life compared to dozens of protestants. I think it's interesting that he doesn't devote much time to protestantism, his content on the subject is useful but it's a fraction of what he's put out in regards to Rome. Not a huge deal as there are others like Robert Arakaki, Fr. John Whiteford, and Fr. Josiah Trenham who have extensively addressed protestantism.

I find the crypto stuff boring too, I'm not denying it has its merits and Dyer might be giving good advice or whatever, I just don't care. Ditto for most of the Hollywood stuff. Some of his movie critiques are interesting, but I pay very little attention to cinema and TV so that's not really in my sphere of interest either.
That's because Protestantism is ridiculously easy to refute, on every level. Romanism has some more serious claims on being the True Church and the True Faith. Protestantism really doesn't even get out of the gate. Plus, Romanist apologetics can get pretty complicated, with a much longer historical record to draw from, so it can take time to refute their arguments. Their mental gymnastics are legendary and it does take time and effort to point out the various ways they distort history, Holy Tradition, Scripture, and the Truth.

Repetition is the mother of learning. Those who wish to learn it well and deeply don't mind the repetition. He also has to keep in mind that he has new viewers and followers who may not have heard old arguments before.
 

pathos

 
Banned
Orthodox Inquirer
Their mental gymnastics are legendary and it does take time and effort to point out the various ways they distort history, Holy Tradition, Scripture, and the Truth.
It's unfortunate that there aren't any Catholic internet lay apologists out there that are on Dyer's level. At least, not any that I know of (excluding the sedes which aren't very credible to me). Even when I still identified as a Catholic, I had a hard time taking the folks at Reason & Theology seriously because they just don't seem willing to see things from their opponent's perspective. If they did, they'd either come up with better arguments or convert.

I've found Dyer to have diminishing returns after a while. Some of his content is extremely useful in the early stages of investigating Orthodoxy but since I never found Rome all that convincing to begin with, it gets a bit tedious hearing him go on and on about it. Some folks probably get a lot of value out of that, but I know like three or four Catholics in real life compared to dozens of protestants.
I agree. At some point you've kind of heard it all. I do agree with a lot of what he's saying because I've reached similar conclusions from my own observations. I prefer lectures to debates myself. I appreciate Fr. Whiteford and Fr. Trenham though their focus is mostly on Protestantism in terms of apologetics. When Fr. Whiteford debated on Reason & Theology I noticed he wasn't terribly familiar with Catholicism, which put him at a disadvantage. I believe it was on the Immaculate Conception and/or original sin. I appreciate Fr. Ramsey a lot. Truglia has good content, too. I appreciate how they're willing to look at Western/Latin theology and give it its dues as it sometimes gets dismissed too easily, from my perspective.

To paraphrase Dyer on crypto, fiat and gold: "diversify your portfolio!"
 
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Kadikoy

 
Banned
Orthodox
there aren't any Catholic internet lay apologists out there that are on Dyer's level
That's because to reach Dyer's level is to realize the truth of Holy Orthodoxy. Nothing Dyer says has not already been said before by numerous confessor saints and Orthodox apologists through the ages.

When you come to the realization that 2+2=4, it's nigh impossible to stay in the 2+2=5 camp. You must either continue refusing to believe the obvious, that 2+2=4, or you just admit the obvious but stay in the 2+2=5 camp for other reasons.

Orthodoxy is on another level from Romanism, which is why any Orthodox apologist will be on a level that Roman apologist are incapable of rising to.
 

pathos

 
Banned
Orthodox Inquirer
That's because to reach Dyer's level is to realize the truth of Holy Orthodoxy. Nothing Dyer says has not already been said before by numerous confessor saints and Orthodox apologists through the ages.

When you come to the realization that 2+2=4, it's nigh impossible to stay in the 2+2=5 camp. You must either continue refusing to believe the obvious, that 2+2=4, or you just admit the obvious but stay in the 2+2=5 camp for other reasons.

Orthodoxy is on another level from Romanism, which is why any Orthodox apologist will be on a level that Roman apologist are incapable of rising to.
I've seen plenty of bad and one-sided arguments against Catholicism from others, though. This goes both ways. There are dumb arguments against Orthodoxy, too. As someone who's familiar with Protestantism, I sometimes cringed at the one-sided arguments from Catholics against it, too, though I reject Protestantism. People tend to go overboard on all sides especially with the cultural and historical grievances. I'd still like to see how he'd perform in a debate with someone like Fr. Chad Ripperger.
 

JoeChill

Kingfisher
Protestant
Gold Member
Jay Dyer had two really great debate performances against the neo-pagans.

The first was against Mark Brahmin, Apollonian and major leader of the neo-pagan dissident right:


The second was against Boglord Dave Martel:
 

Wutang

Ostrich
Gold Member
Wouldn't have expected James Lindsay to be on a podcast with Dyer. He's firmly in the New Atheist camp unless something has changed in recent years that I wasn't aware of. Then again I see people like Sam Harris talking to Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro.
 

BarrontheTigercat

Kingfisher
Other Christian
Can someone provide the numbers for me on all the scholastics and Thomists defecting to atheism? I'm told this is a thing. Where are they? The internet pioneer of that asinine claim Joseph Farrell (pioneer of internet Eastern “Orthodoxy” and the Giza death star) has defected to deist perennial traditionalism as have many of his acolytes and left Dyer holding the bag, for now. He may follow their lead. James Kelley, the Farrellite who converted Jay Dyer to “Orthodoxy” discards the Christian doctrine on the eternal soul for pagan divinized matter and wants to replace “Greek corruption of Christianity” with “ur-tradition” Hindu/tantra/yoga corruptions under “Indo-European” rubric. Meanwhile, Jay Dyer is presently shacked up with Jamie Henshaw, a Jewish occultist divorcée (Freeman Fly’s ex-wife). Seriously, look it up. You can’t make this stuff up!

Farrell, btw, taught at St. Tikhon’s Seminary. They publish his work: https://issuu.com/sainttikhons/docs/2013_tikhonaire_complete__reduced_
He has been an apostate for decades. He claims the great pyramid of Giza is an intergalactic weapon, and stranger than that. Actually, in his asinine theorizing, Farrell connects Aztec human sacrifice with Catholic theology calling it, “a cold-bloodedness that lies just hidden beneath the surface language of piety.” He teaches errors that Orthobros accept as dogmas of their apostate web-religion. The evidence suggests Farrell was in disinfo/destabilize land the entire time and, at best, only LARPing as “Orthodox”you strip away the changing costumes and props, a constant anti-Christendom polemic remains. I view it as Critical Theory for sci fi nerds.


If you’re looking for someone to hand everything you’re looking for on a silver platter and you just sit back and watch and listen (as Dyer does), you’re going to find out the hard way that is not the way to learn theology, philosophy and geopolitics. God willing, one day you people will be grown up and look back on your attempts to “refute” Sts. Augustine, Aquinas, Anselm, Catholicism and the West with the scribblings of cranks like Farrell, Dyer and Eugene Rose for the extreme gullibility and juvenile megalomania that it is.
Obviously this is a subject that animates people.

I don't want to upset anyone or weigh into any debates.
At the moment Im having this guy Joseph Farrell's stuff (bolded above) pushed on me in my own little community.
He seems to be a disinformation agent on subjects like the cabal and his followers coincidentally insist that its all the evil "Naht-seees" that are still in control and pulling the strings.

I have to admit to being skeptical. Seems like controlled opposition to me..
 
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