Well, Jay has the Rokfin and infowars for that kind of content.
Jay Dyer
- Thread starter El Draque
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I've found Dyer to have diminishing returns after a while. Some of his content is extremely useful in the early stages of investigating Orthodoxy but since I never found Rome all that convincing to begin with, it gets a bit tedious hearing him go on and on about it. Some folks probably get a lot of value out of that, but I know like three or four Catholics in real life compared to dozens of protestants. I think it's interesting that he doesn't devote much time to protestantism, his content on the subject is useful but it's a fraction of what he's put out in regards to Rome. Not a huge deal as there are others like Robert Arakaki, Fr. John Whiteford, and Fr. Josiah Trenham who have extensively addressed protestantism.
I find the crypto stuff boring too, I'm not denying it has its merits and Dyer might be giving good advice or whatever, I just don't care. Ditto for most of the Hollywood stuff. Some of his movie critiques are interesting, but I pay very little attention to cinema and TV so that's not really in my sphere of interest either.
He can run circles around you. Why don't you step up? He takes all comers on Discord. You won't, you'd get destroyed.
That's because Protestantism is ridiculously easy to refute, on every level. Romanism has some more serious claims on being the True Church and the True Faith. Protestantism really doesn't even get out of the gate. Plus, Romanist apologetics can get pretty complicated, with a much longer historical record to draw from, so it can take time to refute their arguments. Their mental gymnastics are legendary and it does take time and effort to point out the various ways they distort history, Holy Tradition, Scripture, and the Truth.
Repetition is the mother of learning. Those who wish to learn it well and deeply don't mind the repetition. He also has to keep in mind that he has new viewers and followers who may not have heard old arguments before.
It's unfortunate that there aren't any Catholic internet lay apologists out there that are on Dyer's level. At least, not any that I know of (excluding the sedes which aren't very credible to me). Even when I still identified as a Catholic, I had a hard time taking the folks at Reason & Theology seriously because they just don't seem willing to see things from their opponent's perspective. If they did, they'd either come up with better arguments or convert.
I agree. At some point you've kind of heard it all. I do agree with a lot of what he's saying because I've reached similar conclusions from my own observations. I prefer lectures to debates myself. I appreciate Fr. Whiteford and Fr. Trenham though their focus is mostly on Protestantism in terms of apologetics. When Fr. Whiteford debated on Reason & Theology I noticed he wasn't terribly familiar with Catholicism, which put him at a disadvantage. I believe it was on the Immaculate Conception and/or original sin. I appreciate Fr. Ramsey a lot. Truglia has good content, too. I appreciate how they're willing to look at Western/Latin theology and give it its dues as it sometimes gets dismissed too easily, from my perspective.
To paraphrase Dyer on crypto, fiat and gold: "diversify your portfolio!"
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That's because to reach Dyer's level is to realize the truth of Holy Orthodoxy. Nothing Dyer says has not already been said before by numerous confessor saints and Orthodox apologists through the ages.
When you come to the realization that 2+2=4, it's nigh impossible to stay in the 2+2=5 camp. You must either continue refusing to believe the obvious, that 2+2=4, or you just admit the obvious but stay in the 2+2=5 camp for other reasons.
Orthodoxy is on another level from Romanism, which is why any Orthodox apologist will be on a level that Roman apologist are incapable of rising to.
I've seen plenty of bad and one-sided arguments against Catholicism from others, though. This goes both ways. There are dumb arguments against Orthodoxy, too. As someone who's familiar with Protestantism, I sometimes cringed at the one-sided arguments from Catholics against it, too, though I reject Protestantism. People tend to go overboard on all sides especially with the cultural and historical grievances. I'd still like to see how he'd perform in a debate with someone like Fr. Chad Ripperger.
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That'd be interesting to watch.
The Dyerwave is well worth a listen - both great aesthetics and sound, plus very informational. I've always liked this quote: There's no political solution. Men's problems aren't political, they're spiritual.
It pains me to see Jay get into beef with a fellow forum member, who shall remain nameless.
For what it’s worth, I think Jay is correct about the theological issue which engendered the conflict, but I hope that he and the forum member will reconcile like the based bros they are.
For what it’s worth, I think Jay is correct about the theological issue which engendered the conflict, but I hope that he and the forum member will reconcile like the based bros they are.
Interesting talk. People are pouring into their first steps to Orthodoxy from all kind of secular groups. Underlying theme: they see so much evil in the world that good becomes the opposite, and when there's so much evil, the reasoning goes, there must be good, and there must be Satan and God. That's pretty much the reasoning I followed myself as well.
Obviously this is a subject that animates people.
I don't want to upset anyone or weigh into any debates.
At the moment Im having this guy Joseph Farrell's stuff (bolded above) pushed on me in my own little community.
He seems to be a disinformation agent on subjects like the cabal and his followers coincidentally insist that its all the evil "Naht-seees" that are still in control and pulling the strings.
I have to admit to being skeptical. Seems like controlled opposition to me..