And?
Only since Vatican II, which is my point. Vatican II taught a false New Ecclesiology that is completely at odds with the traditional Catholic teaching. Veneration of Gregory Palamas as a “saint” was forbidden before Vatican II, by the way.
Yes, you could be right. I think it might just be a few guys creating new accounts over and over again. The Catholic subforum has been absolutely nuked by this. Thanks, Sedes. They are as toxic as some Orthobros on the internet.
"For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. The differences that exist in varying degrees between them and the Catholic Church - whether in doctrine and sometimes in discipline, or concerning the structure of the Church - do indeed create many obstacles, sometimes serious ones, to full ecclesiastical communion. The ecumenical movement is striving to overcome these obstacles. But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ's body, and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church." - Unitatis redintegratio 3
I'll try and merge the two topics here. This is an excellent article from Jay that deals with 5 objections to the Papacy. Genuinely interested in seeing what rebuttals Catholics in this thread will present.
So is it also extremely unbecoming behavior for Jay Dyer to cast aspersions at the pope, Thomas Aquinas, and at Catholics in general? We are the largest Christian group on earth, you know.
@OrthoLeaf
E. Michael Jones was mentioned earlier in the thread. He's a vocal Catholic who is very critical of Protestant Christianity and what he views as its disastrous effects on the Catholic Church. I am a Protestant, and yet I think highly of EMJ's work and have read a number of his books. I think he does great work and is performing the exact ministry to which he is suited and to which Christ has called him.
@scorpion The answer is simple. Even though the Church will never fail but endure until the end of time, nevertheless, persecution by her enemies causes immense harm to souls, and souls really do go to hell if they fall victim to it, even though the Church perdures. When the Faith is under attack, when souls are put in danger of hellfire, when heresy threatens to suffocate the innocent and pure Faith of her children, it will not do to simply point out that the Church cannot fail. She cannot fail, indeed, but the number of her members can shrink, that is, her children can fall away, abandon the Faith, become apathetic, sin mortally, starve spiritually from confusion and a lack of knowledge, and go to hell for all eternity. For the Kingdom of God on earth to lose members and have them transferred back to the kingdom of the devil is great cause for concern and anxiety. This is the very opposite of what the Church was commissioned to accomplish. The Holy Catholic Church was founded to lead souls to heaven, not to see them condemned to hell. It is for this reason that the retort of “But the gates of Hell won’t prevail” in the face of the persecution of the Church is completely misguided.
The implication that people, who when put through a trial, do not come out as faithful or approved, should otherwise be spared, is actually heretical. We are coming on the times when even God himself has revealed to us that "the elect" may even be deceived. We don't live in a utopia without challenges is my point, and some people may stumble because that is the point of testing them, as St. Paul said when he referred to the factions among us, and that means the purpose would be to reveal the one true Church.
So in short, papal ecclesiology failed and the dogma has been repeatedly altered. However, I'm more interested in your response to the arguments presented in the article.
Likewise, a bit of criticism of Jay Dyer from me should be of no concern to you. You have an obvious double standard. Jay Dyer can criticize with impunity, and I need to “get over myself.”
Excellent
