Jiangxi Jiujiang Yongxiu dam suddenly breaks! (China flood/dam break thread)

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

I don't understand how dams fail because of heavy rains. It makes sense that a dam would collapse if it was poorly maintained, but isn't every dam built with enough strength to withstand any water level, up to and including being fully submerged?

Dams collapsing because of too much water is like bridges collapsing because of too much weight. It's an oxymoron. The whole purpose of a dam is to bear the weight of the water behind it. If you violate that principle, then why build a dam in the first place?

"This bridge is going to collapse any moment" - said no one ever.

 

[Foolsgo1d]

Humans blocking a large river with something un-natural requires intense engineering and constant maintenance. If the dam was built to a poor quality or had suspect building controls then it will fail over time. The 3GD is a perfect example of this but with it being such a massive structure any fault in its build is magnified.

Water is the best at finding weaknesses in such structures and the ignorance of the CCP is one of its downfalls.

 

[Leonard D Neubache]

I'll believe it when I see it happen but for now there's a lot of propaganda attached to it and a lot of shills pushing the "CCP is doomed" narrative.

Granted China is known for its shoddy manufacturing but by the same token (short of some intense kind of conspiracy) the CCP would not be interested in building a dam that would inevitably wipe out their most fertile farmlands along with all of the farmers working it.

Personally I think that if there were one project in the entire nation that had eagle eyes on it all the way to the top of the COC it would have been the Three Gorges Dam. Then again, an unprecedented project like that might fail catastrophically even if it were built to the highest standard imaginable.

 

[Laner]

There was a time before, when a lot of the world was wary of China, and its constant bribery. Not everyone took the bribes back then, and there was still some muscle behind some world watching orgs.

This was when the dam was built. Any Asian country that was possibly effected by the construction, was making a lot of valid noise. China needed to get it done quickly.

But slowly China bought out most of the united orgs, and has very little to worry about in matters of fucking over their neighbors. I bet they wish they could have built this dam network now. Any weakness in the dam is surely known. The acid and pollution has been leached and carried into the reservoirs for many years. Their cement and rebar are probably low quality compared to what they could use now.

If the dam(s) begin to fail, I will not be surprised.

 

[The Catalyst]

 

[the high]

People are fixated on the dam breaking but, even if the dam doesn't break, the water has flooded 121 cities, displaced 39 million people and caused incalculable amounts of damage to crops and infrastructure.

This guys twitter page is covering some of it:

https://twitter.com/Fei_Nigh

 

[911]

By their historic standards, it's not that big a deal, when you look for example at their big 20th century flood events, like the 1931 Yangtse flood which killed up to 4 million people...

There was a time before, when a lot of the world was wary of China, and its constant bribery. Not everyone took the bribes back then, and there was still some muscle behind some world watching orgs.

This was when the dam was built. Any Asian country that was possibly effected by the construction, was making a lot of valid noise. China needed to get it done quickly.

But slowly China bought out most of the united orgs, and has very little to worry about in matters of fucking over their neighbors.

The dam has no other countries downstream, so there were no diplomatic entanglements or wary neighbors there. You have megacities like Nanjing, Shanghai and Wuhan downstream though, so it's a very critical structure to say the least.

China is currently building two more huge dams upstream on one of the main tributaries of the Yangtse, the Jinsha River. Those dams will be the second and seventh largest in the world in terms of capacity, so they will probably have fewer problems like this in years to come.

 

[Laner]

By their historic standards, it's not that big a deal, when you look for example at their big 20th century flood events, like the 1931 Yangtse flood which killed up to 4 million people...

The dam has no other countries downstream, so there were no diplomatic entanglements or wary neighbors there. You have megacities like Nanjing, Shanghai and Wuhan downstream though, so it's a very critical structure to say the least.

China is currently building two more huge dams upstream on one of the main tributaries of the Yangtse, the Jinsha River. Those dams will be the second and seventh largest in the world in terms of capacity, so they will probably have fewer problems like this in years to come.

I was referencing more the idea that any dam China builds can that could effect a neighboring country was of concern. Pretty sure the Vietnamese are not happy with upstream dams going in on the Mekong. Things like that. Asia a pretty contentious place already, and monsoon reliant rivers and massive downstream industry are going to become hotter the more that upstream countries - China - get control over the rivers up there. The Chinese are investing bigly into trying to move watersheds north. This can't be good for SEA countries.

 

[911]

You're right about the Mekong watershed, Vietnam is getting shafted by being at the receiving end, though China only has 18% of the flow, Laos and Thailand having the main tributaries. Similar dynamics in the Nile with Ethiopia's dams and the Euphrates with Turkey.

A lot of the reason China is holding on Tibet and Xinjiang is because of the water from those high plateaus feeding its main rivers.

 

[La Águila Negra]

By their historic standards, it's not that big a deal, when you look for example at their big 20th century flood events, like the 1931 Yangtse flood which killed up to 4 million people...

The dam has no other countries downstream, so there were no diplomatic entanglements or wary neighbors there. You have megacities like Nanjing, Shanghai and Wuhan downstream though, so it's a very critical structure to say the least.

China is currently building two more huge dams upstream on one of the main tributaries of the Yangtse, the Jinsha River. Those dams will be the second and seventh largest in the world in terms of capacity, so they will probably have fewer problems like this in years to come.

I talked to a Anhuinese women I am doing some work for these days. Floods in the area are a common, yearly thing. Some years they are worse than others

About the dam's structure, nobody on here of course knows anything about the constructional quality of the dam.

Having said that, China is famous for its sub par constructional quality. Apartment blocks starts decaying within years. Tiles come off, concrete starts to crack and crumble, leaks everywhere (which in turn leads to mould), poor plumbing, poor electrical work (which can be very dangerous). The paint is usually the toxic one that had been prohibited decades ago in other countries

After 20/25 years those buildings are done. Literally exhausted. The shelf life of buildings is just way shorter than in other countries

Never mind the Chinese mentality of not giving a shit about caring about their stuff. You'd think that you'd like to keep your new stuff in an excellent state as long as possible. Not in China though, can't really explain where that mentality comes from

China blows up dam on Yangtze tributary to ease flood risk

The action was taken to ensure the safety of people living nearby.

mp.weixin.qq.com

 

[Enigma]

There are tons of examples throughout history of the "great accomplishments" of man being destroyed in catastrophic fashion, the "unsinkable" Titanic being one of the most popular.

Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.

So, whether China built a shitty dam or an excellent dam really isn't even worth arguing about, in my opinion.

 

[911]

I talked to a Anhuinese women I am doing some work for these days. Floods in the area are a common, yearly thing. Some years they are worse than others

About the dam's structure, nobody on here of course knows anything about the constructional quality of the dam.

Having said that, China is famous for its sub par constructional quality. Apartment blocks starts decaying within years. Tiles come off, concrete starts to crack and crumble, leaks everywhere (which in turn leads to mould), poor plumbing, poor electrical work (which can be very dangerous). The paint is usually the toxic one that had been prohibited decades ago in other countries

After 20/25 years those buildings are done. Literally exhausted. The shelf life of buildings is just way shorter than in other countries

Never mind the Chinese mentality of not giving a shit about caring about their stuff. You'd think that you'd like to keep your new stuff in an excellent state as long as possible. Not in China though, can't really explain where that mentality comes from

China blows up dam on Yangtze tributary to ease flood risk

The action was taken to ensure the safety of people living nearby.

mp.weixin.qq.com

New buildings in China come up quickly and are not built to last. Maybe it's similar to Japan, where new constructions are torn down after 30 years.

Raze, rebuild, repeat: why Japan knocks down its houses after 30 years

Unlike in other countries, Japanese homes become valueless over time – but as the population shrinks, can its cities finally learn to slow down and refurb?

www.theguardian.com

It's probably a combination of cheap capital, no barriers to entry, high demand and low consumer standards due to most clients being newly minted middle class. I would think though that their construction and engineering standards would be a bit higher for what is essentially a giant Damocles sword over many of their biggest cities...

 

[Leonard D Neubache]

Routine reconstruction is not such a bad thing if it increases the quality of the buildings. China seems to go the opposite direction.



As a sidenote it's amazing how pervasive the ways and means of Chinese censorship have become. I had to scroll through a lot of "Amazing Chinese concrete construction" videos to find that one there.

 

[Muscovite]

People are fixated on the dam breaking but, even if the dam doesn't break, the water has flooded 121 cities, displaced 39 million people and caused incalculable amounts of damage to crops and infrastructure.

This guys twitter page is covering some of it:

https://twitter.com/Fei_Nigh

Thanks for sharing that.

It looks like the end of times going through that feed.

 

[911]

 

[paninaro]

I don't understand how dams fail because of heavy rains. It makes sense that a dam would collapse if it was poorly maintained, but isn't every dam built with enough strength to withstand any water level, up to and including being fully submerged?

Cost. The same reason your home driveway would crack if a fully loaded cement truck backed onto it. The driveway was built to handle the weight of typical cars, not a massive truck. Sure, they could have built it to support that also, but that would double the cost.

My guess is the Chinese dams were built based on certain projections of rainfall and those projections were too low. Add in that the contractors hired to do the job probably cut corners on material costs and build quality, and soon you'll have a broken dam on your hands.

 

[Foolsgo1d]

The dam has no other countries downstream, so there were no diplomatic entanglements or wary neighbors there. You have megacities like Nanjing, Shanghai and Wuhan downstream though, so it's a very critical structure to say the least.

All countries have a vested interest in this dam not breaking. The nuclear power plants downstream will be impacted and who wants multiple Fukishimas pouring into the oceans?

 

[The Resilient]

Isn't this also the territory of China that has major pharmaceutical manufacturing ?

 

[Johnny Rico]

I don't understand how dams fail because of heavy rains. It makes sense that a dam would collapse if it was poorly maintained, but isn't every dam built with enough strength to withstand any water level, up to and including being fully submerged?

Dams collapsing because of too much water is like bridges collapsing because of too much weight. It's an oxymoron. The whole purpose of a dam is to bear the weight of the water behind it. If you violate that principle, then why build a dam in the first place?

"This bridge is going to collapse any moment" - said no one ever.

The US state of Minnesota begs to differ.

 

[Lace em up]

Apparently there is a live stream of the Three Gorges Dam.