kaotic's gym self assesment and progress thread

[Razor Beast]

You can get injuries doing any exercise Steelex. Don't think it's a good idea to tell people not to deadlift. In fact, I see a lot more fitness pros tearing their pecs than screwing themselves up on a deadlift. The only reason most newbs get hurt on the deadlift than bench is because their form is bad on each exercise but they can't bench heavy enough to put sufficient strain on the pec to create an injury. I find rack pulls are good to supplement with conventional deadlifts. In a way it primes the CNS to handle a greater load than you could pull off the floor and also improves neural efficiency. They are both necessary IMO.

Anyone who's been at this a long time knows their limits and when to push for more/not to. And how to manage minor injuries or imbalances to avoid something more serious. It just comes with experience. Not to say you can avoid every injury, but it's easier to recognize situations where injury risk is elevated even within workouts.

 

[Steelex]

I never said don't deadlift. I just don't program it in, for certain reasons.

Post a pic brah.

 

[youngblazer]

I strongly suggest that men stop heavy deadlifting one they hit early-mid 30s. Why? It's a high-risk, low-reward activity. I can't stress enough how awful lower-back pain is. Seriously. It makes you feel old. It really saps away your quality-of-life. And once you get it, it never seems to completely go away. If you are blessed enough to be in your 30s with a history of heavy deadlifting and not having lower-back issues, count your lucky stars and stop tempting fate.

Keep squatting tho.

 

[Kieran]

I messed my back up deadlifting. My form was good, but with hindsight I'd say it was an overuse thing with the lower back being active in so many movements. If I had my time over I'd never pull from anything less than 4 inch blocks - I think it was Andy Bolton himself that said he wouldn't have athletes pull from the floor due to the risk and there being little difference in the benefits. Really the squat and deadlift are just two good tools of many. Take somebody and have them work hard on say leg press and Romanian deadlifts with good programming, and I doubt there'd be much difference in results compared to if they were squatting and deadlifting.

 

[Steelex]

I'm with you there youngblazer.

A jacked up back can fuck your training up. Why play the odds.

 

[SamuelBRoberts]

I messed my back up deadlifting. My form was good, but with hindsight I'd say it was an overuse thing with the lower back being active in so many movements. If I had my time over I'd never pull from anything less than 4 inch blocks - I think it was Andy Bolton himself that said he wouldn't have athletes pull from the floor due to the risk and there being little difference in the benefits. Really the squat and deadlift are just two good tools of many. Take somebody and have them work hard on say leg press and Romanian deadlifts with good programming, and I doubt there'd be much difference in results compared to if they were squatting and deadlifting.

I've heard so many people say, "Squats and deadlifts are perfectly safe, as long as you do them with the proper procedure."

Well, Chernobyl was perfectly safe as long as long as everybody followed the proper procedure, and look what happened to it.
How much strength are you REALLY losing if you stick to other exercises? 5%? 10%? 15%? If you're not doing this professionally, what's the benefit of taking the risk?

 

[SegaSaturn1994]

I messed my back up deadlifting. My form was good, but with hindsight I'd say it was an overuse thing with the lower back being active in so many movements. If I had my time over I'd never pull from anything less than 4 inch blocks - I think it was Andy Bolton himself that said he wouldn't have athletes pull from the floor due to the risk and there being little difference in the benefits. Really the squat and deadlift are just two good tools of many. Take somebody and have them work hard on say leg press and Romanian deadlifts with good programming, and I doubt there'd be much difference in results compared to if they were squatting and deadlifting.

I've heard so many people say, "Squats and deadlifts are perfectly safe, as long as you do them with the proper procedure."

Well, Chernobyl was perfectly safe as long as long as everybody followed the proper procedure, and look what happened to it.
How much strength are you REALLY losing if you stick to other exercises? 5%? 10%? 15%? If you're not doing this professionally, what's the benefit of taking the risk?

It takes a very cautious person to understand and take caution before something flares up seriously, which is why we'll have a generation after generation of young guys getting away with their risks for a while until something pops and the lucky ones who don't have the problems and will blame the unlucky ones for poor technique. As men we're built to push through the pain and care more about glory than happiness and longevity up to a certain point.

My dad actually broke his back in his very early 40's doing bent over rows for high reps so it's not so much about squats and deadlifts as it's about not maintaining a neutral spine and obviously it's near impossible to do back squats or full deadlifts with a neutral spine; there's always a risk involved and I have not even mentioned slipping when during squats, which could cause horrible injuries as well.
Now in his mid 50's, my dad still has sciatica symptoms and has had some random episodes of extreme pain where he's been given morphine to no avail.

What amuses me is how there's videos and articles on how you should not do this or that movement because it might hurt your shoulder or elbow or whatever but yet these same people don't tell you to avoid all these lifts which compromise your spine, save for good mornings maybe. You can live just fine with a bad knee, elbow or shoulder but hurting your back is a completely different issue which effectively disables the whole body.

 

[Kieran]

Injuries are a part of training and I don't mind the risk. Most trainees that are overly concerned with injury prevention never seem to really get anywhere strength wise. Even athletes training under the best strength coaches in the world get them. I personally wouldn't not deadlift because of the risk of injury, however I do think there are other options which can be just as effective, if not more so (less risk, less demanding).

 

[Steelex]

If you have never pulled 2x bodyweight in a deadlift your opinion is irrelevant.

 

[Kieran]

Not sure if that's directed at me, but if so then I've pulled way beyond twice bodyweight thanks. Not sure why you're getting so uptight over people in the thread having a different opinion to your own. You've made a great contribution to the thread, but calling on people to post pictures and putting arbitrary strength standards up as a pre-requisite for being able to have an opinion is ridiculous.

 

[SamuelBRoberts]

If you have never pulled 2x bodyweight in a deadlift your opinion is irrelevant.

I'm not sure why this would be the case.

 

[kinnikinik]

Kaotic, great thread. Thanks for opening up this line of discussion. Steelex, thanks for posting the workout and the opinions about deadlifting, the entire discussion has been amazingly timely. I just switched up my workout program (from Wendler 531 back to Stronglifts 5x5) but was worried that neither program seems to really be accomplishing the goals I want to achieve at this point.

Initially, I loved building the strength base I've gained with these programs, but when I look at myself in the mirror, I haven't developed the shoulders arms in particular that I want. Simultaneously, I tweaked my back doing deadlifts last thursday and have been limping around.

Being an older guy (50+) I realize that my #1 goal is avoiding injury and I have known since first starting lifting a few years ago, that my deadlift didn't feel "grooved." I'm definitely not pulling multiples of my body-weight (1.5x at my peak).

Don't really have a question, I guess. Just thinking in public. Will hit the gym this afternoon. Gonna have to baby my back, but will try as much of Steelex's shoulder day as I can.

Kaotic, definitely want to hear how things are going.

 

[Saladin]

It takes a very cautious person to understand and take caution before something flares up seriously, which is why we'll have a generation after generation of young guys getting away with their risks for a while until something pops and the lucky ones who don't have the problems and will blame the unlucky ones for poor technique. As men we're built to push through the pain and care more about glory than happiness and longevity up to a certain point.

My dad actually broke his back in his very early 40's doing bent over rows for high reps so it's not so much about squats and deadlifts as it's about not maintaining a neutral spine and obviously it's near impossible to do back squats or full deadlifts with a neutral spine; there's always a risk involved and I have not even mentioned slipping when during squats, which could cause horrible injuries as well.
Now in his mid 50's, my dad still has sciatica symptoms and has had some random episodes of extreme pain where he's been given morphine to no avail.

What amuses me is how there's videos and articles on how you should not do this or that movement because it might hurt your shoulder or elbow or whatever but yet these same people don't tell you to avoid all these lifts which compromise your spine, save for good mornings maybe. You can live just fine with a bad knee, elbow or shoulder but hurting your back is a completely different issue which effectively disables the whole body.

I notice that high rep exercises really increases the chance of injury because maintaining form becomes more difficult. My form goes out of the window If I'm trying to do 20 reps. 5 to 10 reps is the sweet spot where my form is the best.

I'm a newbie deadlifter, when I do it my top focus is form. I notice if I do weighted chinups beforehand my form is weaker because the traps/upper back doesn't engage as much. So now I only do deadlifts when I'm fresh as the first exercise.

I agree that deadlifts are an exercise you have to be careful with... the potential for injury is there if you fuck up. That's why I don't give a shit about my max deadlift, I just focus on doing 5-10 reps with excellent form.

It's an amazing exercise that you have to be very careful with it and it's not an exercise you bring ego into.

 

[kaotic]

My proposal:
I would be happy if you lower your intensity because i) your goal is to get jacked (not ripped or shredded.) ii) you mentioned that you have belly fat (so high volume always helps). On the other hand, you always get your intensity during the strength week.

If you wanna get ripped or shredded then reverse the ratio (ie., 2:1= strength :hypertrophy.)

A final point: Get your test levels checked..just in case.

I've switched to Steelex's plan, lowered the reps dramatically.

I don't have alot of belly fat, but definitely could get ride of some, a month of not drinking much, and keeping consistent with my regular meal plans, helped alot in just 1 month.

I'll be getting blood work done soon.

Kaotic, great thread. Thanks for opening up this line of discussion. Steelex, thanks for posting the workout and the opinions about deadlifting, the entire discussion has been amazingly timely. I just switched up my workout program (from Wendler 531 back to Stronglifts 5x5) but was worried that neither program seems to really be accomplishing the goals I want to achieve at this point.

-snip-

Kaotic, definitely want to hear how things are going.

Thanks appreciate it, I'll update my stats with the next post.

 

[kaotic]

Felt stronger this week, picked up some wrist straps Tuesday, they were great to use, BUT I have to make sure I don't rely on them.

A Day (upper body)

Overhead dumbbell press 2 sets 8-13 reps

120lbs
Set 1 13 reps
Set 2 12 reps

Wide grip rack chins (without straps) 3 sets 8-13 reps

Body Weight 165 + 20lbs
Set 1 13 Reps
Set 2 11 Reps Failure
Set 3 10 Reps Failure

Dumbbell bench press 3 sets 11-15 reps

120lb's
Set 1 15 reps
Set 2 15 reps
Set 3 11 reps failure

Preacher curls 2 sets 5-10 reps

55 lbs
Set 1 10 reps
Set 2 10 reps
Set 3 7 reps failure

Lateral raises 3 sets 11-15 reps

40lbs
Set 1 15 reps
Set 2 15 reps
Set 3 15 reps

Kroc dumbell rows 2 sets 25-40 reps each side

40lbs
Set 1 30 reps each side failure
Set 2 30 reps each side failure



B day (legs, core)

̶R̶a̶c̶k̶ ̶p̶u̶l̶l̶ ̶d̶e̶a̶d̶l̶i̶f̶t̶s̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶a̶ ̶s̶h̶r̶u̶g̶ ̶(̶p̶u̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶a̶r̶ ̶u̶p̶ ̶o̶v̶e̶r̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶j̶u̶n̶k̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶h̶o̶l̶d̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶5̶ ̶s̶e̶c̶o̶n̶d̶s̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶p̶)̶

Replaced with sumo deadlifts with inner grip with wrist wraps 3 sets 5-8 reps

ALOT easier on my back

185lbs

Set 1 8 reps
Set 2 8 reps
Set 3 8 reps

(can definitely up the weight)

Barbell squats 2 sets 6-10 reps, 1 set 18-20 reps using 60% of what you used on your first two sets.

205lbs (Sets 1 & 2)

Set 1 205 10 reps
Set 2 205 10 reps

135lbs (Set 3)
Set 3 - 20 reps

Focused my head at one part of the mirror, my grip pushed the bar into my shoulders focused more on pushing my legs and glutes up


3 sets of planks held for 1-2 minutes. I typically have 3-4 mins between sets.

Planked body weight

Set 1 1:17
Rest 2:30
Set 2 1:05
Rest 2:30
Set 3 1:20


Overall it felt great this week to be in the gym, I still get the itch to lift on rest days, but this is day 3 so I'm going to do some cardio and stretch out before my date tonight.

I've been using the foam roller alot on my legs and it feels great hitting the right angles on my quad/glutes/hamstring.

I also was going to order/refill all my supps on BodyBuilding.com - turns out it's cheaper using another website that is very local to me.

I ordered it midday yesterday and it arrived here today, they even called me before, it was amazing customer service. (Message me if you want know what it is).

I'll write the details below.

 

[Steelex]

Kaotic,

For your dumbell presses I'm assuming you're using two 60lb dumbells and not two 120lb dumbells.

Asking for a friend.

 

[kaotic]

Dietary Supplements (not including general food)

NOW Nutrition Isolated Whey (unflavored)

Used: 10am and Pre/Post Workout

https://www.nowfoods.com/sports-nutrition/whey-protein-isolate-unflavored-powder


Myprotein Casein

Used: Nightime before bed.

http://us.myprotein.com/sports-nutrition/micellar-casein/11092497.html


Scivation Xtend BCAA's (Unfalvored & Flavored) I mix both for less sugar content.

Used: During workout, post workout, and occasionally in gallon water jug.

http://www.scivation.com/product/xtend-raw/


Optimum Nutrition Creatine (unflavored)

Used: During workout and post workout

https://www.optimumnutrition.com/en_US/products/creatine-powder/strength-and-recovery


Now Nutrition Pure Dextrose Non GMO (unflavored)

Used: During workout/post workout

https://www.nowfoods.com/natural-foods/dextrose


Controlled Lab Orange Triad (vitamins & joint support)

Used: 1 serving daily during lunch

http://www.controlledlabs.com/produ...e-triad-best-supplement-for-serious-athletes/


Species Nutrition - Omegalyze (fatty acids)

Used: 1 serving daily during lunch

http://speciesnutrition.com/products/omegalyze-advanced?variant=887801255


Now Nutrition ZMA (Zinc Magnesium)

Used: 1 serving before bed

https://www.nowfoods.com/sports-nutrition/zma-capsules



As you can tell, I'm staying away from fillers, sugar replacers, and bullshit in general.

All my supps are as clean as can be, with as less chemicals as possible, I did this after reading reviews, shopping around, and asking trainer friends.

NOTE: None of this stuff is roid (gear) shit, for now, I'm completely going the natty route.

 

[kaotic]

Kaotic,

For your dumbell presses I'm assuming you're using two 60lb dumbells and not two 120lb dumbells.

Asking for a friend.

As much as bad ass that would be, no, you're correct using 2 60LB dumbells.

The "Strong" log app on my phone puts this as combining the 2 dumbbells for total weight.

(Any weight I log where you're using both arms, should be split for each dumbbell, I'll be more clearer moving forward)

 

[kinnikinik]

B day (legs, core)

̶R̶a̶c̶k̶ ̶p̶u̶l̶l̶ ̶d̶e̶a̶d̶l̶i̶f̶t̶s̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶a̶ ̶s̶h̶r̶u̶g̶ ̶(̶p̶u̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶a̶r̶ ̶u̶p̶ ̶o̶v̶e̶r̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶j̶u̶n̶k̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶h̶o̶l̶d̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶5̶ ̶s̶e̶c̶o̶n̶d̶s̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶p̶)̶

Replaced with sumo deadlifts with inner grip with wrist wraps 3 sets 5-8 reps

ALOT easier on my back

Was pleased to see this comment. I ran into a dude deadlifting 700lbs last week and chatted with him about how tough deadlifts were on my back. He made this exact suggestion. I tried a couple sets and EASILY did more reps than I had struggled with last week, without even a twinge in my back! It's a brand-new exercise for me.

 

[Swell]

B day (legs, core)

̶R̶a̶c̶k̶ ̶p̶u̶l̶l̶ ̶d̶e̶a̶d̶l̶i̶f̶t̶s̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶a̶ ̶s̶h̶r̶u̶g̶ ̶(̶p̶u̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶a̶r̶ ̶u̶p̶ ̶o̶v̶e̶r̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶j̶u̶n̶k̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶h̶o̶l̶d̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶5̶ ̶s̶e̶c̶o̶n̶d̶s̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶p̶)̶

Replaced with sumo deadlifts with inner grip with wrist wraps 3 sets 5-8 reps

ALOT easier on my back

Was pleased to see this comment. I ran into a dude deadlifting 700lbs last week and chatted with him about how tough deadlifts were on my back. He made this exact suggestion. I tried a couple sets and EASILY did more reps than I had struggled with last week, without even a twinge in my back! It's a brand-new exercise for me.

Trap-bar is another tool in the box for dead-lifts especially having a trick back.