Kentucky clerk jailed for refusing to issue gay marriage licences

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Grodin

Woodpecker
It's interesting to watch this unfold and I think we are going to see a lot of evolution in legal codes regarding both religion and family law as a result of gay couples being married. The imagination goes wild thinking about the law going after religious orgs on these grounds (which I think is inevitable) and how nasty court battles between same sex couples will challenge the status quo with it's gender biases.

In this case though I'm more concerned with the use of civil contempt, which has always made me uneasy. The constitutionality of it has been challenged before but it seems that the consensus approves it's use, just not it's abuse. It seems to me that by it's very nature it's an invitation for abuse, similar to tactics like asset forfeiture and punitively large bail amounts. I don't know all the details of this case so I won't judge this as an abuse, but I am wary of civil contempt in general and I think others should be too. It's more commonly used to jail people who won't/can't pay fines, and then the onus of proof is on the defendant to prove if they are unable to pay those fines. It becomes a loophole for the return of debtors prisons and a mild form of indentured servitude.

Meanwhile Illiberals are cheering this decision like a grand victory, because in this case on of their boogeymen (a religious woman) is the one who's subject to this very questionable practice. They'd rather turn their focus to a very shaky argument against deporting immigrants because of the 14th amendment, but oh so willing to overlook the blatant due process violations when they are aimed at a more 'privileged' target.
 

Dr. Howard

 
Banned
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GlobalMan said:
KorbenDallas said:
They (the founders) would despise you and your values.


....

If a muslim county clerk refuses to issue liquor licenses for businesses because her conscience can't bear it, will you be rushing to her defense? You better, because that's the same new "right" you'd like to give the lady at issue here. That's the point some people are missing. The issue this time is gay marriage, but throw out the separation of church at State for this woman and there's no end to the hell we'd be opened up to.

....

I would support her recall or impeachment if she were an elected official. Do I think she should be ordered by the court to issue liqour liscences? No. Do I think she should be jailed for it? Hell no.
 

Wutang

Hummingbird
Gold Member
KorbenDallas said:
There has been some hope for everybody because of this gay marriage ruling though. Conservatives have started to talk about completely abandoning the states intrusion into marriage and family life altogether.

Was going to start a separate thread on this but I think I think I'll keep it here, here's an example of what you are talking about

http://www.clarionledger.com/story/politicalledger/2015/06/26/bryant-gay-marriage/29327433/

"One of the options that other states have looked at is removing the state marriage license requirement," Gipson said. "We will be researching what options there are. I personally can see pros and cons to that. I don't know if it would be better to have no marriage certificate sponsored by the state or not. But it's an option out there to be considered."
 

GlobalMan

Hummingbird
Gold Member
The government shouldn't be involved in marriage at all. Instead of "issuing" a "license", they should be accepting a record. No approval from officials, no signatures needed. Those wishing to get married fill out a form, sign it, and submit for the record.
 

KorbenDallas

Pelican
Gold Member
Well, I at least agree with Globoman on that, government shouldn't be in the marriage business at all.

But regards to the gay marriage being a settled issue, its not settled legally.

I'm from Missouri. We had the Dred Scott case here. It was ruled blacks weren't human...The supreme court settled it!

I mean its ridiculous to say something is settled just because we have an idiotic supreme court.

The constitution is clear, it doesn't give the federal government jurisdiction or power over marriage. Kentuckians made it clear when they voted for their constitutional amendment making marriage between a man and a woman.

This woman is following the law and going to prison for it.

The supreme court can't just rule by dictatorship by just picking a case and then ruling an interpretation of the constitution that says the supreme court now runs the country. That's essentially what they've done, and it hasn't escaped me or millions of others.

This isn't over. The homos, the SJW's, the pedophiles, they all think they've won. We, their opponents have just started to take the field.
 
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