Keto Diet - Data Sheet

Oz.

Pelican
I see a lot of posts here with incorrect information. Sure high animal protein is a stable in a ketogenic diet, but, the main point of a ketogenic diet is being in a state of ketosis. The main talking points should be based around the amount and quality of fats you are consuming. Most sample diets above don’t include anywhere near the amount of fat you’d need to maintain ketosis. Not trying to be the keto police here just trying to clarify some misunderstandings.

I myself did the ketogenic diet for about a year, strictly, while recovering from a knee injury. There are many benefits to the diet, but, also drawbacks. I have been off the diet for about 4 months now since getting back in the groove of training (I am an athlete at heart) and without carbs your athletic performance simply diminishes greatly, at least it did for me.

Here are some good youtube channels and videos to get yourself acquainted with the diet:

 

kel

Ostrich
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Nukie

Sparrow
Orthodox
Keto is great.

I eat 3 times per day instead of 5 since making the switch. A high percentage of energy in your food consisting of fat makes you feel full longer, and yes that's coming from personal experience.

Weight has decreased by ~9kg in ~2 months.

The inuits inhabiting Greenland ate only animals as food such as ice bears (!) and seals with better health then todays crappy standard diet.

I'm of germanic race, if you genetically hail from another people then another diet might be better.

You can eat, I believe the numbers were, 4k calories of fat and loose weight while 1k of carbs would increase it.

It's called hormonal weight loss as apposed to the two other ones: calory theory (calories in, calories out) and exercise. I've just been walking 1h every day.

There is a famous countryman of mine who started this movement in said country with his book, he lost ~70 kg in total where ~40 kg was without exercise.

Here's a grand blog dedicated to it written by a red pilled man:

Use the translation feature of Chrome (mobile: three dot menu -> translate page. Desktop: right click webpage -> translate)

Pic of the man on the main page.

Under categories/kategori, click LCHF ("low carb high fat", same as keto) for posts about keto.

Good luck.
 

Stadtaffe

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Gold Member
First time I read this thread, enjoyed the initial post.. Responses to a few things I read:
Mens' bodies never had the time to adjust to the modern, carb-rich diet, with the possible exception of some East Asian countries that have been cultivating rice for millennia.
Thanks for pointing that out, I have seriously wondered about that. How can Chinese not be fat when rice is such a core part of their diet.
Nuts - Macadamias, idealy.
Why macadamias? I haven't had them in a long time can barely remember what they taste like, but why them.. Yes, almonds, walnuts, although I thought Brazil nuts were the optimum type of nut for this kind of thing. Somehow feel that peanut might be one of the worst but I'm not into it anyhow.
I believe that having most alcohol verboten is the biggest reason why most men will never be able to maintain this diet - who could ever forgo their evening beer?
I am so lucky to not like beer and strongly prefer red wine or spirits. More the former though. Do have beer occasionally but it is just not something morish, one small serve every few weeks seems to be enough. For everything else hard in life, at least some of us don't have a struggle with beer. There are however many other carb things which will pull me away from this diet.
I think it is important to take probiotics or at least eat a bit of yoghurt every day while on the keto diet to keep some bacteria in the gut.
Agree with the yogurt, is a bit hard not to put honey in it though..
BCAA powder
Why do you take that?
I myself did the ketogenic diet for about a year, strictly, while recovering from a knee injury. There are many benefits to the diet, but, also drawbacks. I have been off the diet for about 4 months now since getting back in the groove of training (I am an athlete at heart) and without carbs your athletic performance simply diminishes greatly, at least it did for me.
I am also more the athlete at heart, but see it as phases with different focus. A phase where you are training to get the best time in an event, another phase where you are cutting weight, another phase when you are building muscle and increasing how much you can lift. Maybe I'm inconsistent, but do feel that cutting or weight loss is best done separate to muscle gain or going for athletic performance. For the latter, I will not want to have to avoid things like potatoes or bananas.

No-one has mentioned ketostix yet. That is a helpful thing to check your levels (don't laugh..) After a while you come to know how your body responds in keto levels.

I never officially did a keto diet, more a snake diet with snake juice and small eating windows once a day or even less. I try to keep the refeeds keto.

Normally though I don't - will eat say a hamburger which has a bun obviously. This time I had just beef steak, salad and brocolli and was rather surprised to still be in keto a few hours later, despite the stake being quite big. Managed to avoid including potato with it and that seems to have made a considerable difference.
 

El Draque

Kingfisher
Orthodox

Meh, there's nothing wrong with a bowl of porridge, or some decent brown bread.

I've done Keto and it's good if you want to lean out, but leaves me lacking in sports. Plus it feels autistic.

Just eat a wide, protein heavy diet, & train hard. I eat porridge twice a day when i'm training. Simple, but relatively small protein heavy meals in between. Works for me.
 

Johnnyvee

Ostrich
Meh, there's nothing wrong with a bowl of porridge, or some decent brown bread.

I've done Keto and it's good if you want to lean out, but leaves me lacking in sports. Plus it feels autistic.

Just eat a wide, protein heavy diet, & train hard. I eat porridge twice a day when i'm training. Simple, but relatively small protein heavy meals in between. Works for me.

I hate to bring this up, but there is some evidence that indicates that we (humans) are well adapted to agricultural diets at younger ages, but that this adaptation attenuates with age. This due to there not being enough time (enough generations) then to adapt humans to agriculture at later ages. So if you have ancestors that where agriculturalists, like Eurasians, you will have good adaptation to organic (ideally) agricultural foods up until age 35-40 approximately. (inference from data in other species) Important to point out that this is not the same as the modern industrial diet of course (refined flour, HFCS and seed oils etc.) But from that age, independent of phylogeny, you will tolerate even organic agricultural foods less and less it`s indicated from the theory.

So it would mean that we should transition to a Paleo diet from that age onwards then. I find it quite fascinating at least that we could change epigenetically within the lifespan of an organism, and then drift back to our adaptation to the longer standing previous environment that we used to inhabit. So the factors that make us age, also make us less adapt to the novel (agricultural) environment. So it`s sort of a double whammy that makes ageing worse than it has to be. You have the normal reduction in fitness, plus this mismatch on top of it that also generates problems. Whether you accept that concept is another matter, but it`s worth thinking about at least.
 
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El Draque

Kingfisher
Orthodox
I hate to bring this up, but there is some evidence that indicates that we (humans) are well adapted to agricultural diets at younger ages, but that this adaptation attenuates with age. This due to there not being enough time (enough generations) then to adapt humans to agriculture at later ages. So if you have ancestors that where agriculturalists, like Eurasians, you will have good adaptation to organic (ideally) agricultural foods up until age 35-40 approximately. (inference from data in other species) Important to point out that this is not the same as the modern industrial diet of course (refined flour, HFCS and seed oils etc.) But from that age, independent of phylogeny, you will tolerate even organic agricultural foods less and less it`s indicated from the theory.

So it would mean that we should transition to a Paleo diet from that age onwards then. I find it quite fascinating at least that we could change epigenetically within the lifespan of an organism, and then drift back to our adaptation to the longer standing previous environment that we used to inhabit. So the factors that make us age, also make us less adapt to the novel (agricultural) environment. So it`s sort of a double whammy that makes ageing worse than it has to be. You have the normal reduction in fitness, plus this mismatch on top of it that also generates problems. Whether you accept that concept is another matter, but it`s worth thinking about at least.


Interesting theory, I think it is likely just a case of slower metabolism with age, and less activity to burn the carbs.

If i was ever forced into a somewhat sedentary lifestyle (eg another hard lockdown with no ability to go out for exercise), then i would 100% go full paleo / carnivore.

I did have a phase of just eating pork chops and eggs twice a day, once you get attuned to it, it's amazing how efficient it is. The only thing that stopped me continuing was sporting performance suffered without carbs, & moving in with my girl.

We eat very healthy compared to 99% of pop, but she does sometimes bring cakes home (slices) and when in a relationship natural inclination to more meal focusing, rather than the single man life, of throwing down some protein source and some steamed broccoli, and such forth.
 

Zagor

Woodpecker
It depends which sport you do. I can't play football (soccer) on keto, but I don't see any performance issues on low intensity cardio activities (biking, running) or even weigthlifting.
 

Bitter End

Woodpecker
Orthodox
It is a wicked diet and it gives you great results. However, it used to make me so demotivated. Frankly I was having nightmares the second day. : ) My general optimism and positivity was gone. Probably something to do with brain chemistry. I actually find fasting easier than eating low carb.

Best I could do was carb cycling. I usually don't lack motivation about anything, but this one I could not pull off. I felt it made me cancel most social activities and just walking to the supermarket felt like climbing Everest at times. Combining it with work and studies was just not going to work, especially living in a reasonably big city.

Background, I was never obese, played football (EU type) at least once a month most of my life and have been lifting weights for a decade now. About 14% of bodyfat most of the time.
 

Stadtaffe

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Gold Member
I just cracked after about 6 days of no carbs and one meal a day. Muscle tone has come back somewhat which is nice. I'm an athletic build, muscular but not usually that cut. One day might include for example a large steak, a salad (lettuce + tomato) with dressing and boiled broccoli, on another day there may have been cauliflower instead, one day the steak was replaced by fish, one day there was a four egg omelette (and a tin of tomatoes as everything else ran out). One day, a tin of tuna and a large quantity of boiled carrots with butter. The one meal would take place in a window somewhere in the middle of the day typically. Did a fair amount of exercise, cycling and some runs.

Anyway, I could not look at tuna, eggs or steak this morning. Had oats.

It is a wicked diet and it gives you great results. However, it used to make me so demotivated. Frankly I was having nightmares the second day. : ) My general optimism and positivity was gone. Probably something to do with brain chemistry. I actually find fasting easier than eating low carb.
Another forum user said the much the same thing here with a few more details.. The older archived threads on keto on the forum are also worth a look.

I don't think this is the diet of champions, are there any Olympic athletes or high achieving business people who eat like this? At the same time I wouldn't want to knock it, something has to be done to counteract the modern diet and food industry, especially all the carb temptations. In any case, you follow a diet with a certain goal in mind, maybe that is staying toned while you work a desk job, maybe that is getting a place in a 10k road race, both need different approaches.

Someone in one of the other threads said that they ate carbs only before workouts and were keto at all other times.
 

Bitter End

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Great trip down the forum memory lane. I would recommend keto for certain periods, not a lifestyle. Maybe not necessarily a diet for people that are very obese. More about reaching the extra mile in weight loss and reset your body without carbs for a bit.
 

Stadtaffe

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Gold Member
I was wanting to ask the opinion of the folks in this thread on cheese

Looking at the back of a pack of Emmentaler it says, per 100 grams :

energy 373 kcal / 1551 kJ
fat 29 g
carbohydrate < 0.1 g
protein 28 g
salt 1g

The rest is presumably water. Somehow though, I feel better about red meat, eggs, fresh fish, tinned tuna, bacon, maybe sausages (cautiously) even the occasional yogurt for this diet.

Cheese is low in carbs but there's more to a food than three numbers. Cheese is also the main topping on pizzas and who eats pizza to lose weight? I'm not even sure if it is okay to add it to salad. Not sure if a white cheese like feta would be any better.

Anyway, just curious what people think. I just don't know what to think myself. Can say though, when I am near someone who snacks a lot on bread and cheese, it seems quite destructive if I succumb to that temptation myself.

A mix of the snake diet and keto is getting me lighter and more cut than ever before, so I'm trying to continue and refine what seems to be working.
 

Stadtaffe

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Gold Member
I previously mentioned measuring keto levels while on a keto diet.

Sometimes I contemplate taking it a step further and measuring blood sugar levels. On the other hand, that feels a bit crazy, poking holes in yourself for a diet..

There are a few links on the topic:



Don't think I will do that, it sounds really over the top, but it is none the thought comes back now and then.

Has anyone tried?
 

Stadtaffe

Woodpecker
Orthodox
Gold Member
I recently reached my target weight, saw a number on the scale I was not sure I'd ever see. Am probably slightly heavier now but for a short moment, was actually there. Yes, catching covid was part of it, while isolated I ran out of most food and did not want to bother anyone. But also, I have really managed to completely shun in particular bread, but also don't buy pasta or rice. Only small amounts of oats. Also, a certain turning away from hamburgers, preferring steak and vegetables. And if a hamburger, then without all extra high fat sauces and cheeses on it.

In particular when you walk around and are hungry, and there are prepared sandwiches or rolls piled up, or croissants or other pastries. The ability to not even see that as it passes my eyes has been helpful.

It's just time spent with people with a bread-oriented diet that pulls me off it, but when alone, it is not hard to keep away from it totally. Never buy it. It ruins everything somehow, more than the occasional spoon of sugar in coffee even.

Not eating beyond like 4 or 5pm helped. This is just a note to self and anyone else who may want a tip of what did it. I'm not sure what I'll see on the scale next I am near one, but is nice to have been at least briefly where I wanted to be and know how to get back there when I need to.
 

kel

Ostrich
Way to go and keep up the good work. My suggestion, for what it's worth, is to now focus on getting strong (hopefully you're pretty strong already, but to make that your primary health focus) and don't worry (within reason) about the number on the scale bouncing around a bit. You hit your number there, now keep it within a reasonable zone around that number but focus on power.
 
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