Libertarian Party discussion

debeguiled

Peacock
Gold Member
Phoenix said:
BrewDog is currently on a rage trip. He definitely needs those 7 days to cool off.
He was taking on Jehovah in a religion thread. Roosh may have saved his soul in the form of an earthly time out.
 

Enoch

Ostrich
The libertarian party is dead and Donald Trump killed it.

Would still like to see Rand Paul as Sec of State. Only guy who makes sense on foreign policy. Deep down Trump may be a non-interventionist, but he still must genuflect in front of AIPAC and use the military to fight Israel's enemies.
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
Note that Bill Still (see above), who was a finalist in the 2012 LP primaries, is an ardent supporter of Trump, so yes, in that sense, Trump's candidacy overlaps that of the LP.

Johnson is an idiot and a fake libertarian, pro TPP, Hillary fan and triggered by "illegal aliens". That's why he's been hurting Hillary more than Trump, and that is the reason why the MSM has dropped him like a bad habit.
 
As governor of New Mexico, Johnson cut taxes 18 times and left NM with a billion dollar surplus in a majority democrat state. I don't think he's such a kook.
 
So I was "politely" invited to leave the thread with all the Trump supporters tonight and instructed to come back to the libertarian thread where I belong. Because Republicans, like Democrats, love freedom of expression only as long as you agree with them.

So I wondered if someone could tell me why all the hard core Republicans hate libertarians so much. Our Founding Fathers were libertarians. They were fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Stay out of my money and out of my bedroom. George Washington, Ben Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson all wanted freedom and small government. They were libertarians.

The Republicans say they want all those things, but they give us new socialist programs like Medicare Plan B and new crony war systems that help their buddies. I have to buy my contact lenses from a bootleg online shop in the UK; I can't buy ephedrine anymore (because that really hurts society), and I wanted to gamble for nickle poker last night, but I couldn't because George Bush said it was immoral. I can't even use a proxy to buy into poker tournaments online because my US credit card is blocked. Perhaps that seems like a small deal, but it's a government infringement, and I have no use for it. I don't hurt anyone when I wear contact lenses or when I take ephedra or when I gamble online poker. Who is your government to tell me I can't do any of these harmless things?

So, with all the small government rhetoric, why do you Republicans hate us so much? Because we actually believe what you say you do? Yet your representatives don't really mean itt? I don't want an IRS. Or a Department of Housing. Or a Department of Education. Why do these libertarian ideas sound so outlandish to you and enrage you so much? Even the democrats don't get so mad as the republicans do.

So, since I've been relegated to my libertarian thread and I'm not welcome to have any discourse in the republican thread, I welcome you into the libertarian discussion.

This isn't really my thread, but I'd enjoy hearing your input.
 
I'll restate what I said in the other thread.

Libertarians are patsies. If a libertarian government was every elected to the US, it would be elected for one term.
Its open borders policies would flood the country with people from countries far to the left of the US on the political spectrum. They would vote the libertarians out of power, and the libertarians would never be able to win another election.

It doesn't matter if you, personally, aren't for open borders. The libertarian party has always been for open borders, far, far more so than even the democrats. You can go on their website, and read about their policies.
Here's the relevant section from their website: "Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders."

Unrestricted. That means no restrictions, whatsoever. Under the libertarian party platform, the entire population of South America could move here, and vote for whatever policies they want. You would be completely unable to stop them.

Libertarians are patsies and fools.
 
SamuelBRoberts said:
I'll restate what I said in the other thread.

Libertarians are patsies. If a libertarian government was every elected to the US, it would be elected for one term.
Its open borders policies would flood the country with people from countries far to the left of the US on the political spectrum. They would vote the libertarians out of power, and the libertarians would never be able to win another election.

It doesn't matter if you, personally, aren't for open borders. The libertarian party has always been for open borders, far, far more so than even the democrats. You can go on their website, and read about their policies.
Here's the relevant section from their website: "Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders."

Unrestricted. That means no restrictions, whatsoever. Under the libertarian party platform, the entire population of South America could move here, and vote for whatever policies they want. You would be completely unable to stop them.

Libertarians are patsies and fools.
That's not true. The Libertarian PARTY wants open borders. And Gary Johnson, sadly, likes open borders, too. Their philosophy being that if we had a true Laisse faire free market with no handouts, then we wouldn't have a flood of moochers. And I agree with that part to some point, but that's not what we have. We have a socialist/crony capitalist government system of benefits to moochers and looters. Be it corporations that loot from their crony politicians or from constituent voters that just want free shit.

But Neo-Libertarians want to close the borders. And that's why I describe myself as a libertarian with a little l. I'm not a Libertarian, I'm a libertarian. I don't agree with the party. Libertarians in general don't like being part of a group, meaning we don't like political parties. We're individualists. And that's the downfall of libertarians. We can agree on 98% of things, but that two percent, we'll argue with one another to the ends of earth. Libertarians are more idealistic than anyone else. Some people that don't understand libertarianism describe us as moderates. There's nothing moderate about a libertarian. We're hard core.

But to say we're duped or stupid, that's ridiculous. Any poll you can research with the IQ's of the ideologies of Dems, Republicans or libertarians, we smoke you in IQ and education. Libertarians have more understanding of the world and of politics than the vast majority of the two major parties. If you wish to call me stupid or ignorant or duped, I expect it. But it doesn't make it true because you dislike the truth. And the truth is, your guy, Donald Trump. He's not very bright. You want to talk about what Gary Johnson knows about the world? Look at some of the bafoonery that Donald has claimed. You like that guy, but Gary Johnson is an idiot? Man, come on.
 
"That's not true. The Libertarian PARTY wants open borders. And Gary Johnson, sadly, likes open borders, too. Their philosophy being that if we had a true Laisse faire free market with no handouts, then we wouldn't have a flood of moochers. And I agree with that part to some point, but that's not what we have. We have a socialist/crony capitalist government system of benefits to moochers and looters. Be it corporations that loot from their crony politicians or from constituent voters that just want free shit."

But this is a retard philosophy. Again, it doesn't matter what kind of market you propose. You can institute your perfect, "Laisse faire" free market with no handouts, no mooching, and no anything. And then 500 million south Americans can come in and vote for a 90% tax rate, and there'll be nothing you can do to stop them.


"But Neo-Libertarians want to close the borders. And that's why I describe myself as a libertarian with a little l. I'm not a Libertarian, I'm a libertarian. I don't agree with the party. Libertarians in general don't like being part of a group, meaning we don't like political parties. We're individualists. And that's the downfall of libertarians. We can agree on 98% of things, but that two percent, we'll argue with one another to the ends of earth. Libertarians are more idealistic than anyone else. Some people that don't understand libertarianism describe us as moderates. There's nothing moderate about a libertarian. We're hard core.""

In a two-party system, the libertarian party's only function is to divert votes from the Republican party and make the democratic party stronger, leading to bigger government. If you actually want to make a different, voting republican is your only choice. If you don't want to make a difference, that's fine, but don't expect other people to be impressed. From the perspective of actual outcomes, you're no different from a guy who watches 40 hours of TV a week and doesn't go to the polls because American Idol is on.
 

weambulance

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Bro, I've described myself as a small-l libertarian for years. I have major, major issues with the Libertarian Party because it's fucking ridiculous, will never have any power, and just siphons votes off to make shit easier for the Democrats.

We probably agree quite a lot on political philosophy.

But where you're going off the rails here is in not understanding why Donald Trump is presenting the image he has chosen to present. Donald Trump is not stupid. He is not a buffoon. He is using rhetoric, and speaking to the common man. He plays the media like a fiddle. Do you honestly believe that's all by accident?

If you expect him to speak to you in a way you would prefer, using only logic and facts and details, you're going to be disappointed because that doesn't work on about 95% of the population. He will lose if he does that.

I have to ask, do you have experience as a speaker? I'm curious because as someone who is a pretty solid public speaker and teacher, I can see Mr. Trump doing exactly the things he needs to to get his message across: he's tailoring his presentation to his audience, telling them why they should care about what he's saying, and keeping them engaged by being entertaining, reacting to the crowd, and not rigidly following written speeches. It doesn't look like the typical politician, so people often conclude that he's an idiot when he is in fact being quite shrewd.

I don't agree with everything Mr. Trump says, but I do agree with a solid chunk of it, and it's obvious that Hillary will be an absolute disaster. I'm not voting for the lesser of two evils at all. Donald Trump is only the second political candidate I've ever wanted to vote for; in every other election I was voting against someone. Donald Trump is offering to take the first serious steps to fixing this country in decades. It would be insane to walk away from that over purity concerns (like most libertarians), or because you simply don't understand the way he communicates because you're in the 5% of people who respond to logic and facts.
 
SamuelBRoberts said:
In a two-party system, the libertarian party's only function is to divert votes from the Republican party and make the democratic party stronger, leading to bigger government. If you actually want to make a different, voting republican is your only choice.
No, voting for a failed system is not my only choice. I don't have to do what you say. You continually vote for a failed two-party system, yet an educated, intelligent man will tell you that there were once whigs and torries, and we don't have those anymore. How did those parties go away if there were no other options?

Why would I vote for republicans? Because they SAY they want smaller government? What have the republicans done to promote smaller government? Do you ever look at their voting records, or do you just hear what they said? Because if you're not looking at their records, then you're to blame. George W. Bush said he wanted to curtail the Department of Education. He more than doubled their budget. He said he was against nation building. He's spent TRILLIONS in Iraq building schools, hospitals, and our new embassy in Iraq cost over one billion dollars. And the republicans in congress supported it.

Republicans don't want smaller government. They only say they do. And they know their voters are too stupid and lazy and watching Duck Dynasty to Google their records to find out how they actually voted.

If it offends you that I said the voters were stupid, then touche. You disparaged my intelligence first.
 
"If it offends you that I said the voters were stupid, then touche. You disparaged my intelligence first."

Not to derail the discussion, but why do you feel this would offend me?

I'm really confused by that.
 
SamuelBRoberts said:
"If it offends you that I said the voters were stupid, then touche. You disparaged my intelligence first."

Not to derail the discussion, but why do you feel this would offend me?

I'm really confused by that.
Because I've discovered that usually the first ones to hurl epithets are the first snowflakes to get their feelings hurt. So, if you got hurt that I said these things after you said I was a retard, then sorry, not sorry.
 
That's really weird... No, that didn't offend me. It never occurred to me that it was intended to offend me.

That's another problem with Libertarians. They're all socially maladjusted weirdos, like that old fat guy that stripped off his clothes in the middle of the convention.
 

Rush87

Ostrich
weambulance said:
Bro, I've described myself as a small-l libertarian for years. I have major, major issues with the Libertarian Party because it's fucking ridiculous, will never have any power, and just siphons votes off to make shit easier for the Democrats.

We probably agree quite a lot on political philosophy.

But where you're going off the rails here is in not understanding why Donald Trump is presenting the image he has chosen to present. Donald Trump is not stupid. He is not a buffoon. He is using rhetoric, and speaking to the common man. He plays the media like a fiddle. Do you honestly believe that's all by accident?

If you expect him to speak to you in a way you would prefer, using only logic and facts and details, you're going to be disappointed because that doesn't work on about 95% of the population. He will lose if he does that.

I have to ask, do you have experience as a speaker? I'm curious because as someone who is a pretty solid public speaker and teacher, I can see Mr. Trump doing exactly the things he needs to to get his message across: he's tailoring his presentation to his audience, telling them why they should care about what he's saying, and keeping them engaged by being entertaining, reacting to the crowd, and not rigidly following written speeches. It doesn't look like the typical politician, so people often conclude that he's an idiot when he is in fact being quite shrewd.

I don't agree with everything Mr. Trump says, but I do agree with a solid chunk of it, and it's obvious that Hillary will be an absolute disaster. I'm not voting for the lesser of two evils at all. Donald Trump is only the second political candidate I've ever wanted to vote for; in every other election I was voting against someone. Donald Trump is offering to take the first serious steps to fixing this country in decades. It would be insane to walk away from that over purity concerns (like most libertarians), or because you simply don't understand the way he communicates because you're in the 5% of people who respond to logic and facts.
It's sales 101. Match and mirror. He's applying sales methodology to the largest demographic. It's the pyramid of intelligence: If you cannot explain your area of expertise to someone with no knowledge of the topic, you are not wise. You're well read, but you are not wise. Trump is taking complex issues, and delivering answers in a small concise message that everyone understands.

 

weambulance

Hummingbird
Gold Member
I think Republican officeholders have largely been either controlled opposition or total fucking pussies for several election cycles now. I want them to burn. I'm sick of these cunts like Ryan and McConnell pissing down my back and telling me it's rain. I'm a lot angrier at people like them, who pretend to represent me while betraying me, than the people who are at least honest about being my enemies.

The third parties have been jokes my whole life. There's no fucking way any of them are going to rise to prominence, if only because nearly the entire voting population knows not to take them seriously.

You say you want to get a new party going, and you don't support Mr. Trump, who has been corncobbing the whole establishment for a year? People like Donald Trump are how parties are disrupted and re-routed.
 
Rush87 said:
Trump is taking complex issues, and delivering answers in a small concise message that everyone understands.
It would be even better if he didn't change his mind daily.

If you don't like what Trump says, just wait 24 hours, it'll be completely different.
 
"It would be even better if he didn't change his mind daily.
If you don't like what Trump says, just wait 24 hours, it'll be completely different."

It would be also be better if he could shoot lasers out of his eyes. I'm not sure how this is supposed to be a compelling argument.
 
weambulance said:
There's no fucking way any of them are going to rise to prominence, if only because nearly the entire voting population knows not to take them seriously.
And that attitude will get you the same two party system. If you're not willing to change the system with your votes or your money, then whose fault is the two party system? If you continue to support the same assholes, then is it the assholes' fault for doing the same trickery to get your vote? Or is it your fault for falling for it?

You want different government? Then stop voting for the same government.

I still find it crazy that I'm the outsider. You guys say you want something different, yet you keep voting for the same corrupt shitheads.
 
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