Life is easy - as long as you don't chase the pussy

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AnonymousBosch

 
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birthday cat said:
I think some of you are making a lot of assumptions to suggest this guy Jon Jandai is a sleazy hustler. Perhaps Jandai is a fraud but many of the comments in this thread demonstrate a clear lack of understanding that some people don't come from western culture therefore they don’t have the same values and beliefs that western people do.

I guess I need to check my privilege.

What is *the* classic way to manipulate people, regardless of culture? Promise them that you alone have the secret to happiness, virtue signal that you are a good and selfless person, but then demand tribute - monetary / physical labour / sexual attention to share in their happiness.

I’m surprised more people haven’t said this because one of Jandai’s primary themes is essentially taking the red pill. His entire message is about avoiding social conditioning and thinking for yourself rather than blindly following society.

I don't think you're understanding my point.

As I said, this is the particular strand of Anti-Authoritarian Marxism known as Mental Environmentalism - this is the Adbusters / Corporations are Psychopathic Entities / Culture Jamming crew that emerged in the 90's. This is every hemp-granny-dress-wearing leftist girl I banged during the late 90's, rolling a joint on the cover of No Logo beside her bed.

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The key clue here is both his contempt for consumerism and government control whilst engaging in the branding process to sell his belief system and products. He doesn't practice what he preaches - standard Marxism - and partakes in the consumer dance - standard Mental Environmentalism. He does this by telling himself he's above it, and is only using the system to 'make a difference'.

Whilst the Frankfurt School floated the idea of Advanced Capitalism in the 30's, a strand of Anti-Authoritarian Marxists in the 50's - the Situationist International - were the first adopt Advanced Capitalism as the root of all societal unhappiness. They differed from the Frankfurt School's rigidity of belief by believing societal criticism was possible within the media framework itself. They used the tactic of Detournement:

"turning expressions of the capitalist system and its media culture against itself"

You already know what this is. The original punks took a lot from the Situationists:

god-save-queen.jpg


This fed through alternative music and third wave feminist culture through 'zines, then transformed into the marketed rebellion of Culture Jamming.

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I might be the only one who suspects this, but the Mental Environmentalists are currently making a huge subversive push into Silicon Valley and Tech Culture. They're doing this by using Authoritarian Marxists in the media as Useful Idiots to force corporations to act Ethically, with the intention of making them both less-effective and, therefore, less-profitable, because they'd believe Technology would be stopping people from being their authentic selves.

As this relates to Red Pill teaching: yes, Roosh and Jonathon McIntosh - he and Sarkeesian are M.E.'s pretending to be Marxists - both appear to have the same long term goal: consumerism and technology are bad - true human authenticity is lost - so unplug. The difference is Roosh is advocating Self-Improvement, Direct Political Action and Individualism to strengthen community whilst McIntosh (and Jandai) advocate Self-Negation, Subversive Political Action and Communalism to strengthen community.

Personally, I'd highly-recommend Situationist Tactics and Culture Jamming to propagandise and brand Neomasculinity. Detournement works, even on a guy who is aware of the process. This is why I no longer play video games: McIntosh is a cunning bastard who knew exactly what he was doing. This is why I find it hilarious that Games Companies think he and Sarkeesian are interested in making games better.
 

Handsome Creepy Eel

Owl
Catholic
Gold Member
What is *the* classic way to manipulate people, regardless of culture? Promise them that you alone have the secret to happiness, virtue signal that you are a good and selfless person, but then demand tribute - monetary / physical labour / sexual attention to share in their happiness.

:potd:
 

Quintus Curtius

Crow
Gold Member
Since I've made my rejection of Mr. Thailand's namby-pamby ethical code clear, I have an obligation to propose my own code.

My own commandments, if you will.

1. You shall not shield yourself from raw experience.

2. You shall not hide from the clash, clang, and roar of life. Instead, you will welcome it.

3. You shall find the nature of that Great Spirit that resides in you.

4. You shall obey the call of that Spirit, wherever it takes you.

5. You shall love passionately, and hate passionately.

6. You shall realize that we are, each of us, alone.

7. You shall not expect your woman to "complete" you, and neither shall you "complete" her.

8. You shall realize that Life is a brutal struggle, and you shall welcome the chance to enter the Great Arena of Life, knowing that the only way to lose is by failing to participate. Pain is good and natural. All honor and glory goes to those who participate with zeal.

9. You shall not expect the other man to be like you, or to "understand" you, on more than a few points. He is he, and I am I.

10. You shall not expect, and shall not seek, a stupefying and illusory "happiness" from the World. You are entitled to nothing except what is in you.


So there you have it. You can call it a creed, or you can call it whatever you wish.
 

MikeS

Pelican
HankMoody said:
... Women are not only unnecessary for companionship, but quite frankly, they're terrible at it. If prostitution were legal, no sane man would ever be in a relationship, let alone get married. Women would be beating down the doors of men...

I think that's a little too much glorification of the usually fairly perfunctory services provided by even the better and more outwardly enthusiastic prostitutes.

I've had plenty of experience with them in Europe and a bit in Thailand - I'm not even slightly ashamed of using their services during weeks or occasionally months where I'm either having a string of unproductive dates, or taking a brief time out from dating or STRs.
Prostitutes are the sexual equivalent of fast food as far as I'm concerned - convenient when I can't be bothered to cook or don't have anything in the fridge, occasionally even enticing over other options when I'm in a certain mood (it was particularly tempting in Bangkok when it was right in your face, day or night, in certain areas) - but not suitable for a steady diet. I've had better sex - from a skill and "nastiness" perspective - with some pros than I have with many ONSs and some STRs, but personally I actually do like the companionship of women, conversation (I tend to date girls with above average IQ, which can be both a blessing or a curse, depending on the girl) as well as non sexual intimacy, as long as I also get the time to myself I crave on a weekly basis.

No comment on the marriage part though. I don't have any experience with that, nor at this point any desire to commit to it.

Oh, and women absolutely don't come knocking down the doors of men (except for the doors of the same top tier men as usual) in countries where prostitution is legal (or effectively treated as legal), relatively cheap and with plenty of lookers working the brothels, massage parlors, streets and Internet ads.
 

AnonymousBosch

 
Banned
Gold Member
Quintus Curtius said:
Since I've made my rejection of Mr. Thailand's namby-pamby ethical code clear, I have an obligation to propose my own code...

:potd:

Brilliant, QC, absolutely brilliant.

Building off of that, here is the SJW version:

1. You shall shield yourself from raw experience.

2. You shall hide from life, dispassionately-observing it as a documentarian behind a camera would. You will demand personal protection from the clash and clang of it, and then extend that to demanding the government protect others from it, for their own good.

3. You shall encourage no nobility and greatness within yourself, and shall cultivate a despondent, bitter spirit that seeks to exterminate all trace of that which you lack in other people.

4. You shall follow no call but the will of your immediate desire, with the expectation of being free of the negative consequences of doing so.

5. You shall believe love is a socially-constructed illusion, whilst understanding that the appearance of empathy needs to be projected as a means to an end. The only true and genuine passion that can be felt is hate, and should be cultivated and embraced, until it is the dominant tone of all discourse framed in the name of emphatic concern for others.

6. You shall champion communalism of property and stringent, dictated peer thought out of fear of being socially-alone and self-reliant.

7. You shall believe your partner to be naught but an extension of yourself, sharing your desires and value system.

8. You shall realise Life is a brutal struggle, and blame your fear of participating in the struggle on oppressive forces, and seek to remove them in the belief Utopian Bliss will then naturally arise. Pain means hurt and hurt is all-encompassing and defines you for life. The act of complaint is a right and powerful in itself. All power goes to those who whine with zeal.

9. You shall demand conformity of beliefs, politics, language, style and demand representation of those who reflect that conformity. Those who conform are granted personhood, those who do not are unpersoned.

10. You are entitled to happiness, respect, power, success and comfort, and the ends justify the means.
 

The Lizard of Oz

Crow
Gold Member
Beyond Borders said:
Look at Liz's posts, for example. One second he apologizes for being so brash and thanks me for my patient response. The next he sees a life expectancy chart (as if it took a genious to predict his next instinct was going to be to go Google life expectancy trends in Thailand) and he comes out guns blazing and elbows flying again, dropping little offhand quips at me in his post (i.e "posionous", "wisdom," etc). Even while talking about stuff he's already said he knows I believe as well.

As if I'm really so dense as to have not considered that angle already.

I mean, be humble or don't, for chrissakes - just make up your damn mind already.

Damn BB, I feel like I've fallen into a Thai sinkhole (even though I don't really know if there are sinkholes there) and I can't get out. It's a sinkhole right in the middle of Pun Pun farm, and whenever I think I'm about to climb out of it, Peggy and Jo -- strangely enough -- keep pushing me back in, while Thanh is just standing there with an enigmatic smile and saying, "Why you make it hard? it's so easy.... so easy....". And I wake up in a cold sweat. A pretty low level nightmare, but there it is.

The reason I made the post thanking you for your patience was because I felt that something in the tone of my first post in this thread could possibly offend you -- and that is the absolute last thing I want to do. Of course that has nothing to do with the content of what I had said, which is what I believe to be the case, for what it's worth; but I like and respect you so much that I immediately regretted making you feel bad in any way. And what made me return to the subject to make another post (other than Peggy giving me a good shove down that hole) was Cobra's post about the magical "perspective" that "westerners" supposedly fatally lack. That is something that I strongly disagree with, and I felt the need to explain that. There were no "offhand quips", let alone ones directed at you; first, offhand quips are not my way, and second, you are not my target. More than anything I just wanted to get that Indian dude to read some Naipaul. :)

And finally, I'm neither humble nor (I hope) the opposite, so I don't feel like I need to make a choice either way. I simply speak my mind and communicate what I think is true, and try to do it as well and as enjoyably as I can. But I am also mindful that I am among my friends and brothers, and they are human beings whose emotions I have to make allowances for. So one tries to strike a balance and it comes out as it does.

And now with your permission I'm going to climb out of this nasty sinkhole never to return to it, dead or alive, so help me God. :angel:
 

MMX2010

 
Banned
AnonymousBosch said:
...they'd believe Technology would be stopping people from being their authentic selves.

As this relates to Red Pill teaching: yes, Roosh and Jonathon McIntosh - he and Sarkeesian are M.E.'s pretending to be Marxists - both appear to have the same long term goal: consumerism and technology are bad - true human authenticity is lost - so unplug. The difference is Roosh is advocating Self-Improvement, Direct Political Action and Individualism to strengthen community whilst McIntosh (and Jandai) advocate Self-Negation, Subversive Political Action and Communalism to strengthen community.


This post by durotang on Master / Slave morality is helpful for fleshing out the concepts of my post.

I'm helping my friend write a movie script, and one theme is that healthy women want a man who is "Uplifting" - highly successful across a broad range of categories, coupled with a genuine desire to help everyone. Part of what is Uplifting is moral / virtuous and the other half is aesthetic, but both are necessary to be Uplifting.

Stefan Molyneux has an intricate definition of love: Love is our involuntary positive response to virtue, provided we ourselves are virtuous; otherwise our response will be contempt. But I think he misses the second, equally important clause: Love is also our involuntary positive response to beauty, provided we ourselves have a healthy relationship with beauty; otherwise our response to beauty will be contempt.

I've posted this video before, but this is one of many examples where Stefan has an extremely negative relationship to beauty:




You don't have to listen to the whole thing; just six minutes of it will make you realize, "He isn't kidding! He feels that much negative emotional energy when looking at a woman wearing make up."

Without a healthy relationship to beauty, the illogical and contradictory argument is subtly promoted, "Wouldn't the world be more beautiful, if we could only remove peoples' desire for beauty?"

So, also, is the irrational and contradictory argument, "You should judge me by my intentions!" - (even though you'll never be able to see my intentions, because they're buried eternally inside of me.)

So, finally, is the irrational and contradictory argument, "Being authentic allows others to see Who You Really Are!" - (even though Who Anyone Really Is is so complex that we can never see it through observing their consumer purchases, nor chatting them up for an hour, nor even dating them for six months. To know Who Someone Really Is takes about 2 years, and even this is just a rough outline; we will never see Who Someone Really Is.)

So even though I haven't watched this Thai guy's video, I think you're reacting to the Beauty-Destroying mantra hidden behind his words and presentation. He thinks modern society is ugly, even though it's not. And he wants the rewards of being beautiful - (money, fame, and respect) - without being beautiful himself.
 

birthday cat

Kingfisher
Gold Member
AnonymousBosch said:
birthday cat said:
I think some of you are making a lot of assumptions to suggest this guy Jon Jandai is a sleazy hustler. Perhaps Jandai is a fraud but many of the comments in this thread demonstrate a clear lack of understanding that some people don't come from western culture therefore they don’t have the same values and beliefs that western people do.

I guess I need to check my privilege.

I'm not sure why the concept of privilege was mentioned. Cobra said "Some of the posts here even from vets just reek of an obvious lack of real perspective" and I said "many of the comments in this thread demonstrate a clear lack of understanding that some people don't come from western culture therefore they don’t have the same values and beliefs that western people do" but nothing was said about privilege. It seems like this was an attempt to reframe my argument as a SJW argument but I never said anything relating to privilege.

The point I was trying to make is that it is obvious that some of the commenters in this thread do not have an understanding of how different some cultures and their people are. People from other cultures may have a very different understanding of concepts like ambition, success, and hard work. We come from relatively new cultures that are heavily influenced by Christianity and we speak languages with the Latin alphabet. People with our background may have a difficult time understanding the perspective of someone from a culture that has been heavily influenced by Buddhism for much longer than our cultures have existed. Language is also a much more significant factor than some people may realize.

I've spent a little time in the areas that Jandai refers to in the video and it seems that Beyond Borders has also. These people simply think differently than we do and they see the world through a different lens. I don't think I could understand this concept very well without actually spending time in the region. In my opinion, the differences between Western cultures and Southeast Asian cultures are a magnitude greater than differences between North America, Europe, South America, etc.

AnonymousBosch said:
What is *the* classic way to manipulate people, regardless of culture? Promise them that you alone have the secret to happiness, virtue signal that you are a good and selfless person, but then demand tribute - monetary / physical labour / sexual attention to share in their happiness.

Perhaps this is the classic way to manipulate people but I don't see how it applies to the youtube video. I don't interpret anything he says as promising that he has the secret to happiness, or claiming he has the secret to anything really, and I don't see him demanding any form of compensation. I interpret his message as simple and free of charge.

Some people might watch this video and see a strand of Anti-Authoritarian Marxism known as Mental Environmentalism but I see something much simpler. I see a guy who grew up poor but fairly happy because he didn't really understand he was poor. He moved to a huge and hectic city seeking other people's definition of "success" and he realized that following society's model for success and happiness didn't work for him. His story seems simple, reasonable, and I can relate to it because I've been in a somewhat similar situation before. Maybe I'm naive. Maybe others are making this more complex than it needs to be. Maybe both.
 

birthday cat

Kingfisher
Gold Member
I think one of the main points that some of us were trying to make is that there is wisdom in the video. Nobody said they agreed with everything in the video but there is some wisdom in the video. It doesn't matter to me if the guy is a fraud or how much he is attacked in this thread because there is still wisdom in the video.

The thread has some good arguments against the literal interpretation of "Life Is Easy" but I agree with Beyond Borders that people might be taking that concept too literally and missing the real message. However, those are reasonable arguments.

What isn't reasonable are arguments that are straw men, ad hominem, and conjecture. It is disappointing to see that here.
 

Onto

Ostrich
Gold Member
Birthday Cat: if you can explain what the wisdom is, in detail with concrete examples, I would be interested in hearing it.

Also, you talk about people in this thread using straw-man arguments and al the rest. Well, be specific. Don't be vauge. We're all reasonable men here and though we might not agree, we're all obviuosly drawn to the discussion for whatever reasons.

I do think Pun-Pun should be held accountable for his mantra of "Life is Easy". He says it so much we could make a drinking game of it.

That said, I'm glad Pun-Pun was able to shift gears to make a success of himself. Guy is ambitious and definately has game to lock down a pretty, young, white SJW. Of course we don't know what their relationship is really like or will be like 5-10 years down the road. Sounds like it may be easy for them. :)

"Different strokes for different folks", they say and I agree. However Pun-Pun is making a claim that his way is better because the "Easy-Life" is what should be valued. Along with houses and clothes. He does use both as markers for success in describing his city life and country life.

I also felt as if he was faulting the city folk and infering they are really miserable, selfish, materialistic, egotistical, and foolish.

Well, that may be, but is everyone like that? What about the people who live in a big city because they were born and raised there and for them that's what they identify with as home and family?

Again, I applaud Pun-Pun for his success but I don't agree that life's goal is to make it as easy as possible. That's certainly the impetus for many of the inventions we've had, but what about gaining self-knowledge?

What about "know thyself"? I would say there is no more important mission than that and Pun-Pun never even broaches the subject. Why?

Can one only gain wisdom into themselves and thus the universe if they are a sustainable farmer?

Some of the greatest thinkers of all time were quite the opposite. Why is that? Maybe it really doesnt matter what you do. Maybe what matters is to strive and gain insight into why you do. Whether a farmer, a brick layer, a writer, or an emperor.

I understand Pun-Pun might be saying, "We don't need all this stuff to be happy." Well, ok sure, but we all kind of know that already, and if it were true, why wasn't man content 2000 years ago when he had nothing?
 

Quintus Curtius

Crow
Gold Member
I'm grateful for this thread.

It acted like an electric current for me, really. It allowed me to synthesize some thoughts that I had been thinking about for some time. Here is the final result:

http://qcurtius.com/2015/10/12/my-own-ten-commandments/

It's an important part of my philosophy of life.

Much thanks to all the posters here, especially the ones who disagreed with me.

Funny how that works, isn't it? Conflict does much good, it seems.

Out of the crucible of conflict, a man's senses and views are sharpened, polished, and given final form.
 

AnonymousBosch

 
Banned
Gold Member
Gamers said:
The beta male "vets" on this forum miss the point again. The newbie with 25 posts doesn't.

I'll admit it's damn hard to stay focused as watch my girlfriend repeatedly-fucked by strapping alphas like yourself. Must be due to all the sand I get kicked in my face. I'll try a little harder next time.
 

Sexus

 
Banned
Quintus Curtius said:
Funny how that works, isn't it? Conflict does much good, it seems.

Out of the crucible of conflict, a man's senses and views are sharpened, polished, and given final form.

Who was it who said: "Struggle is the Father of all good things." originally?
 
I can't address the philosophical points as well as Quintus and AB, and I don't regularly hang out in seedy back alleys filled with con artists and scammers who'll slit your throat at a glance like Beyond Borders does, so I may not be qualified to comment here, but...

How stupid do you have to be to take this guy seriously when he's trying to sell you on a lifestyle of sustenance agriculture rice farming?

Sustenance farming is a horrible, horrible way of life. Short of living in a sewer and sleeping on a bed of your own urine every night, it's about the worst life you can have.

Do you remember learning in school about the horrible working conditions in Industrial Revolution-era factories? 12-hour workdays, lungs turning black from soot, 6-year old boys losing fingers and feet to machines with no safety guards? Did you ever ask yourself, "Why would anybody want to work in those places?"
Here's the answer: because being a poor farmer is even worse.

For starters, farm work, especially rice farming, is literally backbreaking. I once met a 90 year old woman in the Japanese countryside who'd spent her whole life stooped over, planting and picking rice. Her back was permanently bent, to the point where she couldn't stand up straighter than 70 degrees. Her height in that position was something like 4'2''. It looked unbelievably painful.

Second, one bad harvest and you either go into debt, or you starve to death. Tsunami wipes out your crops? You can end up a beggar. Blight or pestilence? Hope your kids weren't planning to eat for the next few months.

And what if you get sick, and have no money to pay for treatment?

And the last thing is, when I get sick, what will I do? I really worried in the beginning, because when I have no money, what will I do? But I started to contemplate more. Normally, sickness is a normal thing. It's not a bad thing. Sickness is something to remind us that we did something wrong in our lives. That's why we get sick.

So when your wife's dying of the flu 'cause you have no money to pay for medicine, or you spend your days writhing in agony because you need a root canal and can't afford a dentist, take comfort in the fact that it's your fault. You did something wrong, and that's why you're sick.

The man is an obvious huckster, selling the same old "back to nature" BS that con men have been using to part rich Americans from their money for over a century now. If you don't believe me, try going out and starting a small farm yourself, and see if living that way is really "so easy".
 
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