Lounge of Russian-Ukrainian War

Wyotana

Sparrow
Orthodox
Killing enemy soldiers in the trenches is terrorism? Why? Was he waving white flag? Did he try to surrender? What if he was performing a reconnaissance or an act of sabotage?
Or is it because of the drone? So when is using drones acceptable? When bombing enemy infrastructure only? If so, I wonder if Russians never used their drones to kill Ukrainian soldiers. I mean their "Orthodox brothers".
Killing is killing. It's not nice.

I do think that drone warfare is uniquely harmful to the operator. It's one thing to enter the battlefield risking your own life. Even this often sears the souls of men who participate.

It's another sort of thing to drop bombs from a jet on people you'll never see.

And it's a whole other deal entirely hunt remotely, dropping bombs or missiles with effect that you can't help witnessing. A lot of drone operators end up seriously messed up. I'm not saying it's more or less moral than all the other ways men kill each other. It is unique in some ways.

All the fangirling for drone porn from the war in Afghanistan was a horrific moral failure for the Righteous Americans. Someday, that all comes home...
 

lskdfjldsf

Pelican
Other Christian
Gold Member
Russia will not fare well in this conflict if they keep allowing one Tet Offensive after the next. They're demonstrating a consistent pattern of making tactically sound decisions that result in massive political losses -- and in most conflicts, this is really all that matters. It doesn't matter whether Kherson or Kiev are voluntarily abandoned or captured by the enemy conventionally; Ukraine is now emboldened, Ukraine's suppliers are now emboldened, and Russian morale back home plummets.

I truly want Russia to win, but the level of cope used to explain away the utter incompetence of Russian leadership is insane. Russia must take decisive action, NOW, if only for the sake of appearances on the world stage.
 

2 Right Hands

Woodpecker
Catholic
Killing is killing. It's not nice.

I do think that drone warfare is uniquely harmful to the operator. It's one thing to enter the battlefield risking your own life. Even this often sears the souls of men who participate.

It's another sort of thing to drop bombs from a jet on people you'll never see.

And it's a whole other deal entirely hunt remotely, dropping bombs or missiles with effect that you can't help witnessing. A lot of drone operators end up seriously messed up. I'm not saying it's more or less moral than all the other ways men kill each other. It is unique in some ways.

All the fangirling for drone porn from the war in Afghanistan was a horrific moral failure for the Righteous Americans. Someday, that all comes home...
Yes, probably. Although it's just a modernised version of snipers who have been doing similar thing for over a century.
My issue is with OP's suggestion that Ukrainians are somehow the bad ones here because they utilise such type of warfare while appealing to the Slavic and Orthodox brotherhood. All that while most people here have been cheering Russians for months now for destroying Ukrainian infrastructure and equipment using drones. How many people have Russians killed during these attacks? How many Ukrainian civilians lives have been devastated as a result? No, it's different when Russia do it.
It's war and both sides have been doing some morally questionable things but I feel like many honestly believe that only Ukrainians are capable of it.
Lack of objectivity here has been worrying lately.
 

911

Owl
Catholic
Gold Member
Yes, probably. Although it's just a modernised version of snipers who have been doing similar thing for over a century.
My issue is with OP's suggestion that Ukrainians are somehow the bad ones here because they utilise such type of warfare while appealing to the Slavic and Orthodox brotherhood. All that while most people here have been cheering Russians for months now for destroying Ukrainian infrastructure and equipment using drones. How many people have Russians killed during these attacks? How many Ukrainian civilians lives have been devastated as a result? No, it's different when Russia do it.
It's war and both sides have been doing some morally questionable things but I feel like many honestly believe that only Ukrainians are capable of it.
Lack of objectivity here has been worrying lately.

Russia's military has been substantially constricted by their policy of minimizing collateral damage and civilian hardships, even at the cost of more Russian soldiers. If Russia wanted, it could have carpet bombed most big cities a long time ago, the way the US did in Iraq and Syria right from the start of these wars.

The satanists and globalists in charge of Ukrainian policy, people like Arestovich, have no regard for Ukrainian or Russian lives. They have implemented a perverted form of Ukrainian nationalism that is leading that country to destruction.
 

2 Right Hands

Woodpecker
Catholic
Russia's military has been substantially constricted by their policy of minimizing collateral damage and civilian hardships, even at the cost of more Russian soldiers. If Russia wanted, it could have carpet bombed most big cities a long time ago, the way the US did in Iraq and Syria right from the start of these wars.

The satanists and globalists in charge of Ukrainian policy, people like Arestovich, have no regard for Ukrainian or Russian lives. They have implemented a perverted form of Ukrainian nationalism that is leading that country to destruction.
I don't think anyone disputes the fact that Ukrainian government is on the side of globohomo but just because they're evil it doesn't make the other side automatically good. I have huge problem with such black and white approach. We're talking about Russia, a country with deeply flawed and damaged society and even more corrupt elites. This is the legacy of almost 100 years of godless communism and it can't be fixed in 20 years. Am I to believe that Putin and his people, the army generals, police chiefs, judges, etc. simply wiped off the fact that they and their parents grew up in a atheistic, totalitarian society and became moral Orthodox Christians overnight? Putin can build another 20 000 new churches but it won't change the fact that Russia is still a country with huge issues. People like to applaud them for opposing LGBT (and rightly so) but it doesn't mean Russia hasn't got a problem with degeneracy, just different kind. Look at their rates of abortion, HIV, prostitution, alcoholism or church attendance. And yes, those numbers improve, often quickly, but they started from such dramatic levels that they're still waaay behind most godless Western countries. So what exactly makes Russia 'the good guys'? Better - yeah, most likely. But it's not like the other side set the bar that high. So forgive me if I have doubts when I hear that Russian army constantly show restraint while Ukrainians are bloodthirsty savages. It starts to sounds like Ukrainian/Western propaganda but in reverse.

As for the war itself, it gets more and more tiresome every time I hear 'Russia could have done this or that'. Well, maybe they should have then. Because almost 9 months into the "special military operation", they neither won the war nor they minimised collateral damage and civilian hardship. Unless we define hardship differently, I think millions of people living without running water and electricity and under constant threat of rocket or drone attacks seems pretty hard to me. I am not even counting another couple of millions who had to leave their homes.
It's clear that at this point in time, Russian leadership made huge mistakes, the biggest one being not having the balls to commit to the war effort 100%.
So now, trying to rationalise yet another retreat as a 'tactical withdrawal' is nothing more but a cope. Huge cope. Let's not forget that the Kherson debacle literally meant that Ukrainians took over a chunk of Russia. Does that sounds like a well executed military operation?
 

Ember

Hummingbird
Other Christian
Gold Member
Russia has made a strategically correct military decision without concern for how it will play out in the Western media. When the big push comes and the Ukie forces are wiped out over the winter, no one in the West is going to remember this tactical withdrawal.
Suvorikin has made a decision that has difficult immediate political ramifications, but sets up a road to victory.


Douglas Macgregor explains the situation. The Russian strategy is correct, and Western media propaganda wins do not matter.

 

lskdfjldsf

Pelican
Other Christian
Gold Member
EDIT: I don’t mean to be facetious, but it seems a bit strange how the tone of this thread has suddenly flipped since the Kherson withdrawal

To be honest, the best commentary and discussion on this forum usually happens after a period of setbacks. The Trump and election threads are good examples. We're all (within a reasonable degree) ideologically aligned, and so there can be a natural echo chamber effect until setbacks sober the group up.

I've been posting here for almost 10 years and have seen this effect throughout every iteration of the forum. As with most things in life, a harsh slap brings us back down to earth, and that's when the most realistic and grounded takes on any given topic start to appear.
 

TheosisSeeker

Woodpecker
Orthodox Catechumen
I don't think anyone disputes the fact that Ukrainian government is on the side of globohomo but just because they're evil it doesn't make the other side automatically good. I have huge problem with such black and white approach. We're talking about Russia, a country with deeply flawed and damaged society and even more corrupt elites. This is the legacy of almost 100 years of godless communism and it can't be fixed in 20 years. Am I to believe that Putin and his people, the army generals, police chiefs, judges, etc. simply wiped off the fact that they and their parents grew up in a atheistic, totalitarian society and became moral Orthodox Christians overnight? Putin can build another 20 000 new churches but it won't change the fact that Russia is still a country with huge issues. People like to applaud them for opposing LGBT (and rightly so) but it doesn't mean Russia hasn't got a problem with degeneracy, just different kind. Look at their rates of abortion, HIV, prostitution, alcoholism or church attendance. And yes, those numbers improve, often quickly, but they started from such dramatic levels that they're still waaay behind most godless Western countries. So what exactly makes Russia 'the good guys'? Better - yeah, most likely. But it's not like the other side set the bar that high. So forgive me if I have doubts when I hear that Russian army constantly show restraint while Ukrainians are bloodthirsty savages. It starts to sounds like Ukrainian/Western propaganda but in reverse.

As for the war itself, it gets more and more tiresome every time I hear 'Russia could have done this or that'. Well, maybe they should have then. Because almost 9 months into the "special military operation", they neither won the war nor they minimised collateral damage and civilian hardship. Unless we define hardship differently, I think millions of people living without running water and electricity and under constant threat of rocket or drone attacks seems pretty hard to me. I am not even counting another couple of millions who had to leave their homes.
It's clear that at this point in time, Russian leadership made huge mistakes, the biggest one being not having the balls to commit to the war effort 100%.
So now, trying to rationalise yet another retreat as a 'tactical withdrawal' is nothing more but a cope. Huge cope. Let's not forget that the Kherson debacle literally meant that Ukrainians took over a chunk of Russia. Does that sounds like a well executed military operation?

Solid analysis. It seems to me Russian intel was heavily flawed from the start and they underestimated western help.
 

8ball

Pelican
Catholic
I've been posting here for almost 10 years and have seen this effect throughout every iteration of the forum. As with most things in life, a harsh slap brings us back down to earth, and that's when the most realistic and grounded takes on any given topic start to appear.

Yup, The circle jerk certainly doesn’t help, its not black pilling to take a look at the facts as they are.

Putin should have realized trying to invade a territory that borders multiple Nato countries will have an infinite supply of weapons flowing through. Its not just the clearly horrible intelligence where they thought the country would fall quickly, it seems Russia and its people were/are not ready for a total war scenario and that is precisely what the situation requires.
 

Easy_C

Peacock
There's been some infighting in the Biden Administration between Gen. Mark Milley and Biden's top foreign policy advisers over bringing Ukraine-Russia to the negotiating table.





Biden Admin Infighting On Ukraine Policy Goes Public​




Interesting. This seems to confirm something with that I’ve seen around the various dissident thinker circle (of varying credibility ranging from Lira, to Garland, to Armstrong) to the effect that the Pentagon was pushing back hard on the goal of escalating to direct involvement.
 

mountainaire

Woodpecker
Orthodox Inquirer
I find the armchair general posting to be a bit silly.

"Why isn't Russia doing THIS? Don't they realize XYZ?"

This is a complicated geopolitical matter, of which the info we're exposed to only being the tip of the iceberg. I'm sure there are around the clock negotiations taking place, even at this point in the conflict.

Russia could zerg rush Ukraine, but they're not, because it isn't in their best interest to do so.
 

2 Right Hands

Woodpecker
Catholic
Anyone can confirm if this is true ?







So after "all the Ukrainians of Kherson" celebrating in the streets yesterday, they now are being forced out of the city by their own "liberators" ??


.

Russians blew up the dam which might have made living in the city even more difficult. Plus the fact that Kherson is in the range of Russian artillery located on the left side of the river.
 

Thomas More

Crow
Protestant
Russians blew up the dam which might have made living in the city even more difficult. Plus the fact that Kherson is in the range of Russian artillery located on the left side of the river.
This probably explains the whole situation. The Russians were living under the threat of Ukrainian blowing that dam while they where trying to hold Kherson. They finally said phooey on that, so they evacuated their people, and blew themselves.
 

Thomas More

Crow
Protestant
This probably explains the whole situation. The Russians were living under the threat of Ukrainian blowing that dam while they where trying to hold Kherson. They finally said phooey on that, so they evacuated their people, and blew themselves.
My typos turned out worse than usual on this post. Hopefully it's clear I meant they blew the dam themselves.
 

Caduceus

Ostrich
Fhej3TkXoAgbNYK


 

TCOCBR18

Robin
Orthodox
I saw a link to this analysis about the Kherson withdrawal on the Twitter of Will Schryver, who regularly comments on the war from the perspective that the Western media view that Ukraine is heroically winning is delusional. Now, I think Will Schryver probably overcompensates, that is, he sees that the propaganda is 100% pro-Ukrainian so he wants to swing 100% in the other direction, and as a result his pro-Russian optimism may be excessive at times. But nonetheless, he often has good commentary, and the article he linked I thought was good.
 

TruckDriver9

Hummingbird
Russians blew up the dam which might have made living in the city even more difficult.
The dam structure is intact - the road bridge section atop of the dam was blown up.
Photos from the day of the pull out

By now the rest of the road canvas could be down, but the dam itself wasn't breached (at this time).

Plus the fact that Kherson is in the range of Russian artillery located on the left side of the river.
Nikolaev was in range of Russian artillery for more than half a year and wasn't evacuated.
OPSEC is the most likely reason - there could be some Russian loyalists/spies left behind who could provide intel on troop and equipment placement.
 
Top