Lounge of Russian-Ukrainian War

TCOCBR18

Robin
Orthodox

I saw this from Will Schryver, but I could not for the life of me figure out where he extrapolated that information. If somebody knows, that would be helpful.

I like Will Schryver, but as I've pointed out before, his optimism for the Russian side is sometimes an overcorrection. He sees that the media is 100% pro-Ukrainian, so he just goes 100% in the opposite direction, but with a claim like in that tweet, if he says 100,000 KIA, 300,000 WIA, 380,000 MIA, and then add in the fact Russia is holding Ukrainian POWs, he is thus proposing that the Ukrainians have suffered a total of roughly 800,000 casualties in this war. That is just too much for me to believe, especially without having any clue where his 380,000 MIA claim came from. If they had lost 800,000 men already, they would have virtually no army left to speak of.
Now, I think we can definitely affirm that it's almost certain the Ukrainians are losing significantly higher casualties at this stage than the Russians. That shouldn't be doubted. Ukraine is suffering horrendous casualties, but 800,000? That is too much.

About a week ago, the US was putting out some surprisingly conciliatory signals about the war, that seemed to indicate the US was shifting its tone toward wanting peace talks (which they definitely did not want before). At that time, I noticed a remarkable statement from the Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley, that the war has to end, neither side can win outright, and both sides are suffering horribly. And he said the Russians have suffered 100K casualties, and the Ukrainians have suffered "probably the same".
Considering that the whole Western narrative has been that Ukraine is winning, I thought it was very remarkable for the American military to admit even that Ukrainian casualties are "about the same". If the US says they're about the same, that probably means they are significantly higher for the Ukrainians. But so in that case, we can know that the Ukrainians have definitely lost 100K as an absolute minimum (since that is what even the US admits).
But anyway, we do not know the exact numbers, but we do know the numbers are horrendous, and the suffering is high for both sides, but probably higher for the Ukrainians, but probably not as high as Will Schryver claims.
 

TCOCBR18

Robin
Orthodox
Just a general comment I want to point out, particularly for anybody who might be inclined to dooming about the situation for the Russians (not that I think many people here feel that way):
A very noticeable difference between Russia and Ukraine in this war is that Russians, even now as we are getting deep into the war, are still by and large able to lead normal peacetime lives without even minding the war very much if they choose not to think about it. Civilians inside Russia are effectively just living in a normal country still. There have been economic effects, as we all know, but they are not all that debilitating for normal people's lives. And even the consumer choices aspect of the economic effects isn't even that great: even most of the fast food restaurants are still there, just under different names and ownership. My conclusion from this is that the war is not a fundamentally existential concern for average people in Russia, whereas Ukraine has been utterly devastated and depopulated, and lost 35% of its entire economy so far.
One thing however that Russia will really need to work on is demographics/birth rates.
 

911

Owl
Catholic
Gold Member
I saw this from Will Schryver, but I could not for the life of me figure out where he extrapolated that information. If somebody knows, that would be helpful.

I like Will Schryver, but as I've pointed out before, his optimism for the Russian side is sometimes an overcorrection. He sees that the media is 100% pro-Ukrainian, so he just goes 100% in the opposite direction, but with a claim like in that tweet, if he says 100,000 KIA, 300,000 WIA, 380,000 MIA, and then add in the fact Russia is holding Ukrainian POWs, he is thus proposing that the Ukrainians have suffered a total of roughly 800,000 casualties in this war. That is just too much for me to believe, especially without having any clue where his 380,000 MIA claim came from. If they had lost 800,000 men already, they would have virtually no army left to speak of.
Now, I think we can definitely affirm that it's almost certain the Ukrainians are losing significantly higher casualties at this stage than the Russians. That shouldn't be doubted. Ukraine is suffering horrendous casualties, but 800,000? That is too much.

About a week ago, the US was putting out some surprisingly conciliatory signals about the war, that seemed to indicate the US was shifting its tone toward wanting peace talks (which they definitely did not want before). At that time, I noticed a remarkable statement from the Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley, that the war has to end, neither side can win outright, and both sides are suffering horribly. And he said the Russians have suffered 100K casualties, and the Ukrainians have suffered "probably the same".
Considering that the whole Western narrative has been that Ukraine is winning, I thought it was very remarkable for the American military to admit even that Ukrainian casualties are "about the same". If the US says they're about the same, that probably means they are significantly higher for the Ukrainians. But so in that case, we can know that the Ukrainians have definitely lost 100K as an absolute minimum (since that is what even the US admits).
But anyway, we do not know the exact numbers, but we do know the numbers are horrendous, and the suffering is high for both sides, but probably higher for the Ukrainians, but probably not as high as Will Schryver claims.

The majority of the Ukie MIAs are probably desertions, so this number is quite plausible.
 

911

Owl
Catholic
Gold Member
There's been a lot of this true.

The cross burning thing was from 2015 if I'm not mistaken... I've seen some really heinous stuff committed against women mostly.... That's the stuff that bothers me.

I think that's the thing many people who've never really dealt with war fail to grasp....man's inhumanity to fellow man.

There's a chasm between people who bleed the same blood, worship the same God, and will be haunted for the rest of their lives for the things they do as witness in war.

I hope this winter cools tensions and brings this war to an end, I don't see either side getting much more out of this.

It's more than just "war is hell", it's about one side having a satanic ideology, not unlike ISIS, going into full Heart of Darkness mode.
 

DanielH

Hummingbird
Moderator
Orthodox
So I was trying to fact check the 300k+ figure of Ukrainian MIAs, and went to this website


When you click on the "Ukrainian Losses" tab it literally just says in huge letters "HEROES DON'T DIE"
Well tell that to their wives, children, and parents.
1669213562512.png
 
So I was trying to fact check the 300k+ figure of Ukrainian MIAs, and went to this website


When you click on the "Ukrainian Losses" tab it literally just says in huge letters "HEROES DON'T DIE"
Well tell that to their wives, children, and parents.
View attachment 51279
Oh wow that's hilarious and sad
 

budoslavic

Eagle
Orthodox
Gold Member

Russian Orthodox Church calls Ukraine monastery raid 'act of intimidation'​

The Russian Orthodox Church said on Tuesday that searches conducted by Ukrainian security services at an Orthodox monastery in the capital Kyiv were an "act of intimidation".

"Like many other cases of persecution of believers in Ukraine since 2014, this act of intimidation of believers is almost certain to go unnoticed by those who call themselves the international human rights community," Vladimir Legoida, a spokesperson for the church said.

Ukraine said it carried out the searches at the Kyiv-Pechersk Lavra complex as part of counter-intelligence measures, and that they were conducted within the law. Russia invaded Ukraine in February. Patriarch Kirill, the head of Russia's church, has given his support for what Moscow calls its "special military operation" in Ukraine.


Ukraine's security service raids Kyiv monastery, suspects Russian sabotage​

  • Raid targets suspected Russian 'subversive activities'
  • Kyiv monastery is a Ukrainian culture treasure
  • Russia's Orthodox Church condemns 'act of intimidation'
  • Two other monasteries in western Ukraine also searched
KYIV, Nov 22 (Reuters) - Ukraine's SBU security service and police raided a 1,000-year-old Orthodox Christian monastery in Kyiv early on Tuesday as part of operations to counter suspected "subversive activities by Russian special services".

The sprawling Kyiv Pechersk Lavra complex - or Kyiv Monastery of the Caves - is a Ukrainian cultural treasure and the headquarters of the Russian-backed wing of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church that falls under the Moscow Patriarchate.

The Russian Orthodox Church, whose head Patriarch Kirill has strongly supported Moscow's military actions in Ukraine, condemned Tuesday's raid as an "act of intimidation".

The Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) said in a statement: "These measures are being taken ... as part of the systemic work of the SBU to counter the destructive activities of Russian special services in Ukraine."

It said the search was aimed at preventing the use of the cave monastery as "the centre of the Russian world" and carried out to look into suspicions "about the use of the premises ... for sheltering sabotage and reconnaissance groups, foreign citizens, weapons storage".

The "Russian world" concept is at the centre of President Vladimir Putin's new foreign policy doctrine that aims to protect Russia's language, culture and religion. It has been used by conservative ideologues to justify intervention abroad.

The SBU did not say what the result of Tuesday's raid was.

'PERSECUTION'

The SBU, police and National Guard also searched on Tuesday two other monasteries and the headquarters of the Moscow Patriachate's diocese in western Ukraine, the SBU's branch in the Rivne region said in a statement posted on Facebook.

The raid will further sour already very tense relations between Russian and Ukrainian Orthodox Christians.

"Like many other cases of persecution of believers in Ukraine since 2014, this act of intimidation of believers is almost certain to go unnoticed by those who call themselves the international human rights community," said Vladimir Legoida, a spokesperson for the Russian Orthodox Church.

Last Friday the SBU said it had charged a senior clergyman from the western Vinnytsia region with attempting to distribute leaflets justifying Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

In May, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate ended its ties with the Russian Church over the latter's support for what Moscow calls its "special military operation".

Ukraine says the full-scale invasion began an unprovoked war of aggression.

A 2020 survey by the Kyiv-based Razumkov Centre found that 34% of Ukrainians identified as members of the main Orthodox Church of Ukraine, while 14% were members of Ukraine's Moscow Patriarchate Church.

In 2019, Ukraine was given permission by the spiritual leader of Orthodox Christians worldwide to form a church independent of Moscow, largely ending centuries of religious ties between the two countries.

839839-Kyiv-Pechersk-Lavra-Ukraine-Kiev-Temples-Church.jpg

2519cb18ad078cddd1c453e6b53f2892.jpg
 
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TruckDriver9

Hummingbird
All casualty reports are of dubious nature and shouldn't be taken at face value - all of the belligerents (and that includes the US, the UK and every other "western" nation) have an interest to manipulate the data for Information warfare purposes. And the fact that both sides use formations from different departments/command structures only complicates things even further - nobody in the Russian MoD knows the number of Rosgvardia casualties, and the same goes for ukraine - even if they wanted to tell the truth, they wouldn't know it.
Now, about the number of ukrainian MIAs - first of all, You should remember that ukrainian commanders have a financial incentive to spike the overall number of troops. The US provides salaries for every ukrainian soldier so it's only natural that they'll report a larger number of troops than really exist and then they'll report them as missing - just in case of an inspection.
Second, the KIA and MIA numbers overlap with each other - writing down the KIA as MIA allows them to hide the real number of casualties from the people. Also, ukrainian commanders have - once again - a clear financial incentive to write down the dead as missing to collect their wages, and the families of missing soldiers are not entitled to any compensation.
 
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budoslavic

Eagle
Orthodox
Gold Member
These photos are breathtaking.

Absolutely beautiful.
During my 10+ years of traveling to & from Ukraine, I had visited and checked out a lot of the churches throughout the country including Kiev. It was quite stunning to see the architecture, murals, artwork, icons, history, etc.

The most fascinating churches during my travel were the wooden churches - or "wooden tserkvas" as they are commonly called - in western Ukraine (i.e., Lviv, Ivano-Frankivsk, Zakarpattia, and in the Carpathians region). It really blew my mind to learn how a lot of the churches were built using wood.

Note: I had visited Lviv, Chernivtsi, & Ivano-Frankivsk. Sadly, I have not had a chance to visit Zakarpattia & the Carpathians region. It is still on my must-visit list. One day, I will return to Ukraine in the future.

drohobych-ukraine-wooden-church-1.jpg

601.jpg

oldest-wooden-church-lviv-region-ukraine-1.jpg



 

Wyotana

Sparrow
Orthodox
Dr. Paul forecasting doom for the Great Ukrainian Boondoggle.

I think he is far too optimistic about the house Repugnican majority. I'm not sure the Stupid Party can scrape up the votes necessary to stop the Evil Party from marching gloriously into WWIII. Well over half the Stupid Party is also evil.

 

Rocha

Ostrich
Gold Member
These photos are breathtaking.

Absolutely beautiful.
Indeed a place of peace. Been a few times. Will never forget the first time I went, and in my inoccence (since was not something out of ordinary back home) lighted a smoke on that outdoor area after getting out of one of the churches, and received a lecture from a very angry priest, had to put it out and then into my pocket. In fact there where no ashtrays or garbage bins around... This is holy territory. Lesson learned though.
 

TCOCBR18

Robin
Orthodox
So I was trying to fact check the 300k+ figure of Ukrainian MIAs, and went to this website


When you click on the "Ukrainian Losses" tab it literally just says in huge letters "HEROES DON'T DIE"
Well tell that to their wives, children, and parents.
View attachment 51279
My God, this is just so pathetic and an absolutely new level of propaganda. The Ukrainians have ascended into a new plane of reality.
 

Foolsgo1d

Peacock
My God, this is just so pathetic and an absolutely new level of propaganda. The Ukrainians have ascended into a new plane of reality.

They've been bought by propaganda like everyone else but theirs is a particularly potent one.

The fact EU and British politicians got horny over WW3 because that clown in Ukraine said it was Russian missiles and not his own should have made many people aware how badly they want this to escalate. And now it has vanished off the front pages and social media for reasons unknown apparently.

People have lost their minds when a couple of farmers get hit and suddenly we need to escalate because some jewish court jester says so.
 

Pointy Elbows

Pelican
Orthodox
Jay Dyer had an excellent interview with Doug MacGregor:



Some thoughts/summary:

1. Nice to see these two in one sitting. MacGregor has addressed the Orthodox subjects of this war, but I did not anticipate him on with Dyer.
2. MacGregor has an excellent historical understanding. Very informative analysis.
3. MacGregor supports an independent Israel (does not use the term "Zionist") as a reality of the current world and a reasonable result of what happened in WW2. They avoid names but are candid about "cosmopolitan" influence. He understands how the West exploited FSU.
4. The US is becoming a mess with little emphasis on merit and much emphasis on diversity. Chaos to ensue.
5. German-Russian cooperation is anathema to Anglo-American goals. The US is taking typical "our way or the highway" approach. Why not everybody enjoy success? We'll have to do business with each other eventually, regardless.
6. US military leaders are lackeys and tea leaf readers.
7. Russia is standing up a large force. The coming offensive will be massive.
 

sarmaticus

Robin
Orthodox
According to my russian american contacts i have discovered the following.

Russian military seem to have no faith on their commanders and generally think the war strategy has been planned and executed by idiots.
Ukranians seem to be good at precise artillery fire, much better then russians expected.
Russian commanders on the ground tell their men to abandon all weapons and flee many times and their opinion of high command is very low, fuelling further low morale among the troops.
Too many men have fled russia in order to escape being rounded up and sent to Ukraine, posting pics in places like kazakstan.
Capturing foreign fighters from all over the world has led to troops thinking the whole world is against Russia, oddly this is not an incentive or a boost to morale, infact it seems to be the opposite.
People are having a hard time sending money back to Russia, due to russian banks being out of the international system and american apps non longer working, now that they need it more then ever.
Russian women are marrying foreign men en masse in order to stay abroad. I am sensing approaching 90s level desperation.
Those that have been impacted by mass foreign business closures are relying on family for help.
When i bring up China or India filling the void i get anywhere from a laugh to a confused look, its simply not happening on the ground.


This is all pretty much as i expected when the war broke out and the west reacted the way it did which Russia was clearly not prepared for. What’s different now is that the same group of contacts who were shocked at the cancellation of Russia in the beginning actually belived the war would be over quickly, now they no longer believe Russia can win this war.

Look this video up. If these poor Ukrainian soldiers seem to have any high morale going through such an onslaught... They're getting annihilated and this has been business as usual for months now.



Also, check out this very good article and its video (from the body of the article).


CNN propaganda has to cease on this forum at least for the sake of saving the lives of those Ukrainian soldiers that get slaughtered as we speak. The more people blah blah that Russia's military is in poor condition the more power this gives to the Cabal to trick the taxpayer NPCs that all is going well and should keep supporting and financing this war, which will lead to more slaughtering of orthodox Christians. This has to end. Stop it please, at least here!


And a new potential false flag? I know they have experience from Syria with these chemical weapons attacks..

 
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fortyfive

Kingfisher
Other Christian
Since the beginning of the full-scale invasion, Ukrainska Pravda has received several tip-offs that an obscene number of Ukrainian VIP refugees is concentrated in Monaco, Monte Carlo and Nice. We heard various names and various addresses. But we decided that it’s better to see once than to hear a hundred times. We stopped off at the Cote d’Azur for a few days on our way to Turkey, where we tracked down the yachts of Russian oligarchs. What we saw is in stark contrast to what Ukraine and Ukrainians have been experiencing for six months now. The Cote d’Azur is historically a favourite holiday destination for the world’s elites. That is why it is difficult to understand why Ukrainian millionaires and billionaires, who have been weakening the country for decades now, would decide to “sit out” the war right there for all the world to see. A world which is now helping to make Ukraine stronger. It seems anti-advertising can’t get any worse than Bentleys and Maybachs - the latest models - with Ukrainian licence plates.

 
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