LTR Trouble with Ukrainian woman

luigi

Sparrow
SCROLL DOWN IF YOU WANT A SHORT VERSION

I wish i had trusted this thread
https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-54046.html

In spring i went to finally meet in person a 26 year old chick in ukraine (im less than 10 years older), who lived in a pretty small city. I know women there expect the man to pay all, so before my first travel i tested her about how in europe its normal to split expenses, many times she told me how she understood this, like "yeah i know this, no problem" without any further discussion.

Fastforward about 6-7 months after. She lives with me in my country. Leaves friends and family behind to be with me.

Treats me like a king, supports me in everything, respects my hobbies and likes my friends. Everyone likes her.

However, she puts the minimum effort to learn spanish or find a job.

Her excuses for not working:

- "Im waiting to be legal", while theres thousands of illegals working here for years.

- "I dont speak the language", she doesnt speak spanish, but neither do hundreds of english speaking families in my area.

- And now the final surprise, an unexpected pregnancy. Afraid to work while pregnant because of the baby's health. We go to doctor and doctor says its OK, so now she just has the typical pregnancy symptoms like fatigue.

I had to bring up a few times how here we share expenses and how i dont want to pay her all, she was shocked and even cried but then she said she understood that its a cultural difference and how she wanted to work as soon as possible and contribute to the family economy, bla bla. But days keep passing and i dont see any changes.

She is in comfort zone. I cannot afford to pay for 3 people myself alone (not even two for a long period). I thought i could help her start from scratch but she is not showing me any signs of willing to progress. A normal day is her sleeping or being with phone, then its just cooking or having a walk together.

So i have about 2 weeks left before we cannot do an abortion anymore and im starting to consider doing it and end the relationship.

Shes been here for 4 months and has only worked 1 week taking care of some kids. I found her that job because she doesnt even try putting advertising on facebook groups, i have to search for her.

She is the most innocent girl ive been with, good heart, no slutty photos, good family relationship, even goes to church, all is fine by her, never complains... But she is lazy and has low initiative.

Am i too demanding? Any questions?

Short version:
I met a girl from ukraine, caring, good heart
Moved with me 4 months ago
Shows little to none effort (my opinion) to find job or study local language
She is pregnant and im thinking of abortion and ending ltr for the reason above
 

SilentOne

Woodpecker
You moved her in with you too fast.

This situation isn't going to get any better. You got a little taste of what's to come. It's going to get much harder. Her plan is to be a stay at home mom and she isn't going to work a full time job. But you knew this upfront and you took her away from her family.

If and when this child is born, life is about to get real. You will probably have to work overtime or two jobs. And she is going to start to complain more often.
 

luigi

Sparrow
I didnt know upfront.

She told me many times how she knew in europe things are different. If i knew upfront she was going to stay home all day i wouldnt have started a relationship with a woman like this.
 

SilentOne

Woodpecker
From what I read she doesn't sound like a bad woman.

You took her from her native country away from her family and friends within 2 months. She now is in a place where she can only rely on you. Now you are discarding her after having your fun. That's messed up man.

If you want to end it, end it. Don't ever make that mistake taking a woman away from her country carelessly again.
 

luigi

Sparrow
SilentOne said:
From what I read she doesn't sound like a bad woman.

You took her from her native country away from her family and friends within 2 months. She now is in a place where she can only rely on you. Now you are discarding her after having your fun. That's messed up man.

If you want to end it, end it. Don't ever make that mistake taking a woman away from her country carelessly again.

Oh she is a great woman, but even she admits being low initiative person.

"Took her away" sounds like i kidnap her. She is adult and made a choice. She was always saying how she wanted to leave Ukraine and with all respect to ukrainians, but i would want to leave too, even his father wanted her to leave. I stayed with her in ukraine for months (maxed my tourist visa time) paying groceries, restaurants and even a trip to her relatives somewhere else. What i mean with this is that i also did my part, I didnt just "have fun" with her.

I brought her because she is wife material, or so i thought until recently... everything was dreams and goals until i realize that apparently she wants to achieve them with my money, not our money. She could have made it clear earlier that she didnt want to work if its the case.

My point right now is she says she wants to work but then she doesnt show any attitude towards finding something. She will be legal soon and maybe then she will change her behaviour (maybe when legal she really will work) but by the time she is legal it will be too late for abortion and there will be no way back. So its a leap of faith.

I live in a place with foreigners from all countries, ive met so many girls who survive alone and take any job they find (waitress, cleaner....) pretty quickly. She has the advantage of having my support, house and food... ill ask you again, am i expecting too much? Am i too anxious?

ps: dont worry about the baby, i swear responsibility if he is born
 
There is so much information on the internet about how to manage Ukrainian women that it's pretty ridiculous you're even in this situation right now.

Generally speaking, you move your ass to Ukraine. Not the other way around.

You can make $50K a year online and support 2 people just fine. You're probably in Spain and getting raped by taxes and poor wages there. Why do that when you can live in Ukraine? You've obviously been there.

I don't see why her parents would want her to leave if you can make a Western salary online and be a rich person in Ukraine. That's 100% the best way to do it.

Anyways man...this is what you sign up for with Ukrainian women. You're going to be the breadwinner.

You wanted a feminine, traditional woman. You got one. Doing what feminine, traditional women do (ie: not working, getting pregnant and being emotional). I'm not trying to be a dick here, but this is the cold hard truth. You don't date Ukrainian girls so they can go get jobs and bring in money. You date them so they can eventually be stay at home Mom's.

Obviously nobody here can tell you if this behavior is going to change, but in this community, you are taught to look at ACTIONS and not WORDS as a sign of what's to come.

Yes, obviously she is going to freak out if you suggest her to get some shitty job as a cleaner or a waitress.

Also, you're 36 and can't support a spouse? Are you behind in your current financial situation? What made you think that committing to an LTR if you don't have your own money figured out was a good idea?

To me, this just sounds like you didn't know what you were signing up for with bringing a Ukrainian girl to another country. This is all standard and none of it surprises me at all. There are no equal gender roles in Ukraine. That's just not how it works.

Masculinity and femininity are polar concepts. If you want a feminine woman, you must be a masculine man.
 
She isn't even doing anything wrong: this is how Ukrainian women are. This is their culture. She clearly told you this. Family above all. Man pays and leads. She does stuff in the house.

Don't mess up your life. Cut things off.
 

JimBobsCooters

Woodpecker
This sounds like an issue with you more than her.

You basically want your cake and to eat it to, you got a woman from elsewhere and now you want to westernise her and make her work because you're not capable of providing at a sufficient level.

Basically you've said that everything is good with her except that she doesn't want to work, many men would find that to be an ideal situation and don't want a career woman and would rather someone who is a good person, good mother and good wife.

Again, big issue seems to be that you're work isn't at a good enough level to provide and so instead of fixing your problem you want her to fix it for you by working. I mean if you were earning more money would you actually want her working? Do you genuinely want her to work or are you projecting your problem earning money onto her instead of owning it and fixing it?
 
luigi said:
I didnt know upfront.

She told me many times how she knew in europe things are different. If i knew upfront she was going to stay home all day i wouldnt have started a relationship with a woman like this.

Sounds like you got outmaneuvered. As stressed already look at peoples actions, not words but when it comes to words the questions need to be displayed in very clear boxes. "Are you going to get a job/you will have a job?" is much different then "you know that married women in my country work right, would you like/ do you want to work?" And of course that's not enough since (if thats what you want) she needs to display traits of a working (outside the home) woman.

In your end, if you didn't want your woman to be stay at home, then displaying your wealth wasn't a good idea which is why she outmaneuvered you. You, for whatever reason, came across as an alpha provider (which is the sweet spot) and what do alpha providers want? So she basically made her decisions based on your actions connecting As to Cs.

The past aside, whatever you seem to being doing in life appears to be working. I hope you are already very frank with her already so you possibly having to work extra won't come as much surprise.

On a cultural note, Since I'm not Spanish, as an American, we take great pride in wives not having to work. If you aren't at an income level where the house doesn't depend on a wife's income then it's considered an accomplishment. A lot of married guys I know complain about their wives not working but when it comes to their kids going to school/added costs like daycare vs home school and having a clean house they much prefer the latter.

Be glad shes not outmaneuvering and using your money to leave you for an eat, pray, love lifestyle which happens quite often.

So pros and cons to everything

I think what the difference is that the US is more connected to industry
where industrial agriculture tended to become more specialized which in short emplyees who dont quite live on the land and businessmen replaced farming families, who all had to pitch in to bring the crops to market that financed/fed the household.
 

Louis IX

 
Banned
Married with an ukranian woman . She is the type taking initiatives despite not rejecting traditional lifestyle . I pushed her not to work anymore - she is still young - to fully focus on kids. What I can say is that you should simply work more and they to earn more money or else spend less . You should lead. She will expect this. In return she will be faithful and a great stay-at-home mum. She probably thinks that you are lazy or stupid not to earn enough money to make the family work . There are a lot of Ukrainian women ( especially if raised in countryside ) who simply cannot understand the West and that usually both have to work . Sometimes it s frustrating but I see it as a contradiction if you want her to work . Then just take a west European girl .
Just try to look confident tell her how much you love her and that your will try to find a second job so she can stay at home and care about the baby.
Do not make her a western woman who has to work. Her role model shouldn't be the girls you re mentioning who are single and working. She should be the role model for these single women .

If you can afford to live by yourself in a studio then move in a studio with her . Reduce costs but keep the leading role . If you spend a lot she will think you are rich. Things have been going fast but can't blame you . Now just hold on . The next 5-6 years are going to be key as little kids being tensions in the couple and routine makes women freak out.

Hold on and keep strong. You will be proud of yourself in 10 years for managing to build a Christian household with traditional roles

Do not panic and stay focus. Explain to her that you don't earn enough but you will work more if she keeps being a great wife .
 
Referring to my other post: ^its probably why American men are less tolerant with women being in the formal workforce and things like the military. Not that another cultures way of doing something is bad or wrong but we got a lot of pride in what we do and why we do it.

That pride also might explain why we tend to put women on pedestals as well unfortunately. But these are all just ideas.
 

Louis IX

 
Banned
ArloDash said:
There is so much information on the internet about how to manage Ukrainian women that it's pretty ridiculous you're even in this situation right now.

Generally speaking, you move your ass to Ukraine. Not the other way around.

You can make $50K a year online and support 2 people just fine. You're probably in Spain and getting raped by taxes and poor wages there. Why do that when you can live in Ukraine? You've obviously been there.

I don't see why her parents would want her to leave if you can make a Western salary online and be a rich person in Ukraine. That's 100% the best way to do it.

Anyways man...this is what you sign up for with Ukrainian women. You're going to be the breadwinner.

You wanted a feminine, traditional woman. You got one. Doing what feminine, traditional women do (ie: not working, getting pregnant and being emotional). I'm not trying to be a dick here, but this is the cold hard truth. You don't date Ukrainian girls so they can go get jobs and bring in money. You date them so they can eventually be stay at home Mom's.

Obviously nobody here can tell you if this behavior is going to change, but in this community, you are taught to look at ACTIONS and not WORDS as a sign of what's to come.

Yes, obviously she is going to freak out if you suggest her to get some shitty job as a cleaner or a waitress.

Also, you're 36 and can't support a spouse? Are you behind in your current financial situation? What made you think that committing to an LTR if you don't have your own money figured out was a good idea?

To me, this just sounds like you didn't know what you were signing up for with bringing a Ukrainian girl to another country. This is all standard and none of it surprises me at all. There are no equal gender roles in Ukraine. That's just not how it works.

Masculinity and femininity are polar concepts. If you want a feminine woman, you must be a masculine man.

Not everyone can work online making 50k a year ...
I am not sure why you think the OP is dumb. I ve worked both in Spain and in Ukraine and for different reasons both are hard places to make big money.
All the rest - about Ukrainian women and gender roles - is right thought
 

Louis IX

 
Banned
luigi said:
SilentOne said:
From what I read she doesn't sound like a bad woman.

You took her from her native country away from her family and friends within 2 months. She now is in a place where she can only rely on you. Now you are discarding her after having your fun. That's messed up man.

If you want to end it, end it. Don't ever make that mistake taking a woman away from her country carelessly again.

Oh she is a great woman, but even she admits being low initiative person.

"Took her away" sounds like i kidnap her. She is adult and made a choice. She was always saying how she wanted to leave Ukraine and with all respect to ukrainians, but i would want to leave too, even his father wanted her to leave. I stayed with her in ukraine for months (maxed my tourist visa time) paying groceries, restaurants and even a trip to her relatives somewhere else. What i mean with this is that i also did my part, I didnt just "have fun" with her.

I brought her because she is wife material, or so i thought until recently... everything was dreams and goals until i realize that apparently she wants to achieve them with my money, not our money. She could have made it clear earlier that she didnt want to work if its the case.

My point right now is she says she wants to work but then she doesnt show any attitude towards finding something. She will be legal soon and maybe then she will change her behaviour (maybe when legal she really will work) but by the time she is legal it will be too late for abortion and there will be no way back. So its a leap of faith.

I live in a place with foreigners from all countries, ive met so many girls who survive alone and take any job they find (waitress, cleaner....) pretty quickly. She has the advantage of having my support, house and food... ill ask you again, am i expecting too much? Am i too anxious?

ps: dont worry about the baby, i swear responsibility if he is born

If I may ask ; why did you bring her being illegal ? You should marry her before the birth and get the wedding recognized in both countries otherwise you are going into a lot of problems in the future. Makes some pre nup stuff as well in front of Spanish notary of the embassy . In Ukraine it s usually quite fair if you divorce - you get your things she gets her things - so need for that .

It seems that you got carried away bringing her too early and thought once in Spain she would work so you could live better. Forget this for now it s done so you have to deal with the situation . You will become a real man by not giving up . Ukrainian women are demanding but they give you a lot in exchange .

And another thing - don't do abortion - especially if the reason is that you don't earn enough . I have been through difficult times - for example not being paid during a few months by local Ukrainian guys while my wife was at the end of her pregnancy - but the joy of having a kid is much better than the horror of having abortion . Even with no money - kids need affection more than material .

It s normal that things get confused in your head ; you are human and wants to do your best - but don't give up . Measure the luck you have to be with a good wife. Has she pushed for wedding already ? Curious to hear the answer . A no would be suspicious . She is 26 and you are around 35 so you also have to make it happen .
 

PixelFree

Kingfisher
The good advice anyone could give you on your original question has already been given.

I’ll add - look inside yourself to see if there isn’t another underlying real reason why you feel this dissatisfaction/ frustration.

Are you just resisting settling down and are looking for excuses? Maybe your expectations are unhelpful on what she should be?

I saw this because I was there myself. I was the problem, not her.
 

Roosh

Cardinal
Orthodox
If you wanted a woman who works and is independent, why didn't you find a Spanish woman? Looks like you're trying to put your progressive family values on a more traditional girl.
 

bucky

Ostrich
Other Christian
luigi said:
SCROLL DOWN IF YOU WANT A SHORT VERSION

I wish i had trusted this thread
https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-54046.html

In spring i went to finally meet in person a 26 year old chick in ukraine (im less than 10 years older), who lived in a pretty small city. I know women there expect the man to pay all, so before my first travel i tested her about how in europe its normal to split expenses, many times she told me how she understood this, like "yeah i know this, no problem" without any further discussion.

Fastforward about 6-7 months after. She lives with me in my country. Leaves friends and family behind to be with me.

Treats me like a king, supports me in everything, respects my hobbies and likes my friends. Everyone likes her.

However, she puts the minimum effort to learn spanish or find a job.

Her excuses for not working:

- "Im waiting to be legal", while theres thousands of illegals working here for years.

- "I dont speak the language", she doesnt speak spanish, but neither do hundreds of english speaking families in my area.

- And now the final surprise, an unexpected pregnancy. Afraid to work while pregnant because of the baby's health. We go to doctor and doctor says its OK, so now she just has the typical pregnancy symptoms like fatigue.

I had to bring up a few times how here we share expenses and how i dont want to pay her all, she was shocked and even cried but then she said she understood that its a cultural difference and how she wanted to work as soon as possible and contribute to the family economy, bla bla. But days keep passing and i dont see any changes.

She is in comfort zone. I cannot afford to pay for 3 people myself alone (not even two for a long period). I thought i could help her start from scratch but she is not showing me any signs of willing to progress. A normal day is her sleeping or being with phone, then its just cooking or having a walk together.

So i have about 2 weeks left before we cannot do an abortion anymore and im starting to consider doing it and end the relationship.

Shes been here for 4 months and has only worked 1 week taking care of some kids. I found her that job because she doesnt even try putting advertising on facebook groups, i have to search for her.

She is the most innocent girl ive been with, good heart, no slutty photos, good family relationship, even goes to church, all is fine by her, never complains... But she is lazy and has low initiative.

Am i too demanding? Any questions?

Short version:
I met a girl from ukraine, caring, good heart
Moved with me 4 months ago
Shows little to none effort (my opinion) to find job or study local language
She is pregnant and im thinking of abortion and ending ltr for the reason above

My opinion is that if she's inclined to marry you, marry her. Also, do not encourage her to murder your baby. If you're not a devout Christian, become one. You should be with your child and the mother of your child. It will probably be difficult, be with sufficient faith the Lord will provide and I'd imagine you'll ultimately be much happier. Even if you aren't, it's not about you now, it's about your child.
 

luigi

Sparrow
I find it funny how in a mgtow oriented forum theres people ok with marrying and having a "stay at home wife" that lives a life free of charge just for being born with a vagina. I had to say it.

Being a housewife isnt that hard... Kids are on school, my apartment takes 4 hours per week to clean or less. Rest of the day just enjoy life. Oh and she will be loyal and caring to me? She is already supposed to be for the fact of choosing to be my wife, no? Same i do with her.

She has a medical degree and -says- she wants to keep the career. We will see.

And who asked about marriage, yes we are engaged, proposed before this recent conflict. Its the only thing i could complain about her.

@Roosh i didnt know that "man pays everything" applied to 100% of women in ukraine, i thought someone who wrote that thread i linked (and others) was just angry of some ex... I never imagined it would be such a drama for them.
 

Roosh

Cardinal
Orthodox
luigi said:
I find it funny how in a mgtow oriented forum theres people ok with marrying and having a "stay at home wife" that lives a life free of charge just for being born with a vagina. I had to say it.

Being a housewife isnt that hard... Kids are on school, my apartment takes 4 hours per week to clean or less. Rest of the day just enjoy life. Oh and she will be loyal and caring to me? She is already supposed to be for the fact of choosing to be my wife, no? Same i do with her.

She has a medical degree and -says- she wants to keep the career. We will see.

And who asked about marriage, yes we are engaged, proposed before this recent conflict. Its the only thing i could complain about her.

@Roosh i didnt know that "man pays everything" applied to 100% of women in ukraine, i thought someone who wrote that thread i linked (and others) was just angry of some ex... I never imagined it would be such a drama for them.

It's clear to me that the problem is not the woman but you. You found a woman based on lust and you want to mainly experience the benefits of her (sex, beauty) without masculine responsibilities attached. Good luck with that. This is no longer a secular forum for you to date and extract from women. This forum is now based on Christian values.
 

Barron

 
Banned
Gold Member
Any guy that depends on someone else's income to sustain himself or his family is not a man but a boy.

We all go through hard times but your complaints are completely childish. New mothers and women that are pregnant are not supposed to have full-time jobs. Their full-time jobs are the raising of their children, caring for their husbands, and managing of their homes. To expect anything else is utter nonsense.
 
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